Power Kite Forum

Nasa Star 3

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3shot - 3-3-2015 at 03:55 PM

:thumbup::cool:

soliver - 6-3-2015 at 08:57 AM

5.5m & 7m NS3s with bar & lines en route

Wahoo!!! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I guess I'm officially joining the Rag Flapper brigade :D

John Holgate - 6-3-2015 at 03:36 PM

Cool, Spencer. I should have a full set of NS3's shortly too. By the way, as I was doing some longer runs with the Nasa's last week at Sandy Point ( it's about 15km from the point back to Waratah Bay, I ended up hotwiring the kites to the buggy via a 3 point attachment - two from either side of the side rails behind me, and one from the downtube, then threaded the chicken loop through the three loops. It worked brilliantly and I was able to do 92km without any strain or stress on the bod. I normally wouldn't consider hotwiring but the Nasa's are proving to be so stable and predictable that I figured I could get away with it. I think it will be my normal MO from now on. Does mean you have to launch from the buggy though which is not really a big deal.

Demoknight - 6-3-2015 at 03:46 PM

John, couldn't you have a seat on the buggy with the kite parked in the air on your harness and sit down and transfer the kite to the buggy belt? I imagine this would be easier with an Arc or big slow depower, but I would think that unless you had much side pull you could do this with almost any kite.

John Holgate - 6-3-2015 at 04:06 PM

I have done something similar in the past.....and got ripped out of the buggy while messing around with the straps. I feel it's a little better to have the kite parked on the ground while I mess 'round with harness or straps then I can launch when completely ready. Rather than having to split my concentration between where the kite is and 'dang, just can't quite get that third strap hooked in'.....

John Holgate - 6-3-2015 at 04:10 PM

Steffen posted this a few days ago - with a 10m NS3. And he certainly makes packing it up look easy.

ssayre - 6-3-2015 at 04:17 PM

Monkey read monkey do. I want to try hot wire. My little buggy might not be as stable though. If it goes wrong I can blame John. :D

dangerdan - 6-3-2015 at 04:19 PM

Can I assume that the last 5minutes of the video was about the 10m kite ?

ssayre - 6-3-2015 at 04:53 PM

Pretty much Dan, he goes back and forth from cross country ski to snow kite using the 10 meter

Can't wait for you to get them Spencer. Here's a picture from today of me and my freshly outdated ns2

I dunked it in a nasty muddy snow melt pool and Just spent the last hour giving it a sponge bath. All the while with the wife giving me the eye to do something more productive.


street buggy.jpg - 31kB

3shot - 6-3-2015 at 05:41 PM

Spencer that's awesome!!! I guess the janky prez does need to represent with the latest and greatest!!

You're gonna love em!

John Holgate - 6-3-2015 at 05:59 PM


Quote:

Monkey read monkey do. I want to try hot wire. My little buggy might not be as stable though. If it goes wrong I can blame John. :D


My Vmax is pretty wide and with the midi tyres on, I know it will slide easily when powered up on hard sand. Bigfoots not so much - they've dug in and flipped me before so I'd be very cautious if I had them on. Also surface dependent - I'd be hesitant to hotwire in on a grippy surface unless I had a roll bar rigged up on the back axle....something I may mess with at some stage.

The other thing to keep in mind is that normally, the force of the kite is transferred through your bum to the buggy (I think - may be wrong there) so the force is nice and low on the buggy. The hotwire system will most likely raise the pull point. One of the buggiers at Kingston found himself suddenly on two wheels when hotwired in which gave him a little scare (he was going pretty quick at the time).

hmmmmm.......how to attach a roll bar......

3shot - 7-3-2015 at 07:51 AM

Spencer, I think that makes you the first in the states for the NS3 dude! At least on pkf.

ssayre - 7-3-2015 at 08:10 AM

Jason, we got the old one two punch with buying the ns2's right before the release of the 3 and paying a much higher exchange rate. That's okay though, to me they have been worth every penny and are pretty much a timeless design. Hopefully you and spencer can try them out side by side at jibe and see how they differ. Even if I get the 10 meter I probably won't be able to tell the difference on such a different size.

3shot - 7-3-2015 at 08:32 AM

Yeah Sean! Had I just got into the new quiver thing, I would obviously be buying the NS3. I am very content with the NS2. Its has done everything I needed it to do in my conditions. Jibe will be a while new experience though, and im very excited to streach their legs on that 3-4 mile strip of of beach. Even if money was no object, I doubt very seriously I would upgrade a whole quiver for a few more miles per hour. But there again, I've not had my NS2 on a wide open extended run. That's just my view point from watching all John's timeless, classic NS2 videos.

I haven't flown in months now. Its killing me. Hell, I'd settle for some good ole static time. I have 10 mph winds today, and good direction, but we are coming out of a three week snow melt, and its a ridiculous mess everywhere... My poor 7m hasn't even seen the air yet. Glad spring is here!!

Demoknight - 7-3-2015 at 08:35 AM

I bet they do offer an improvement in window size. I wouldn't be too surprised if the two of you could stand shoulder to shoulder and park both kites to the same side of the window at the same height without them touching.

3shot - 7-3-2015 at 08:52 AM

John, have you actually tried this? I know the NS3 does have a little more up wind ability just from watching your videos. Have you actually parked both 3m kites (static) at the edge of the window for a upwind distance comparison?

ssayre - 7-3-2015 at 08:52 AM

That would be a great comparison to try.

That reminds me of the project I'm working on. I'm setting up a bar that's connected to 2 of the nasa star bars so I can try to buggy with 2 of them at once. There's not really a point to it but it just seems like it's something I have to do. :D

Randy - 7-3-2015 at 09:00 AM

So guys, maybe I should post this in "Want to buy" but if anyone is wanting to dump his NS2 to raise money for an NS3, let me know. I'd only want a 2.5 or 1.5 m (kite only) though since I've got an NS2 5.5....:D

3shot - 7-3-2015 at 09:29 AM

Well, I don't know about dumping any NS2, but I'm sure I could make you a killer deal on a brand new 16m Venom II :evil:

Randy - 7-3-2015 at 11:14 AM

This is NS3 craze is like Jim Cramer on CNBC "NS3 - BUY, BUY, BUY - anything else SELL, SELL, SELL":D

sadsack - 7-3-2015 at 12:07 PM

I like it, sell sell sell

soliver - 7-3-2015 at 01:12 PM

Well I'm excited to give 'em a go... Holy poop, it's been almost 3 months since I've flown a kite... I've been meaning to ask my doc when I can start again but my next appointment isn't for 3 more weeks!

On a side note, I hope customs doesn't screw me out of having a couple of my kites for JIBE.... In other words I hope they get here in time!!!

If someone would just bounce on my other RII, I'd be able to snag another NASA too!

Guess I need to make an NPW :D

John Holgate - 7-3-2015 at 04:14 PM


Quote:

John, have you actually tried this? I know the NS3 does have a little more up wind ability just from watching your videos. Have you actually parked both 3m kites (static) at the edge of the window for a upwind distance comparison?


I haven't tried it but next time I'm down the beach, I might throw one of the 3.2's Iain's way and we'll try 'em out side by side.

So far, I've been testing using the gutometer :D

3shot - 7-3-2015 at 04:16 PM

Thanks for the future comparison John!!

3shot - 7-3-2015 at 04:18 PM

They should be here in plenty of time Spencer. 3-4 weeks is about average.

IMK - 7-3-2015 at 04:20 PM

John I'm more than happy to help do a side by side comparison. Not long now before I'm ready to start kiting again.

Iain

ssayre - 7-3-2015 at 06:22 PM

That's good news Iain. Glad to hear your almost healed up. :thumbup:

soliver - 7-3-2015 at 06:30 PM

You're injured too IMK? (Lain is it :D)... What'd you do to yourself?

3shot - 7-3-2015 at 06:51 PM

Glad you're healing up Lain!!

Ain't nothing better than kicking Nasa Star talk around all day!!
Damn I'm ready to fly!!!!!!!!!!!
Heck, I might just spread one out in the living room just to gawk!!:D

IMK - 7-3-2015 at 08:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by soliver  
You're injured too IMK? (Lain is it :D)... What'd you do to yourself?


Broke my leg on Christmas Eve. Surgery on Boxing Day. My Christmas present to myself was a bunch of titanium :D. I've been having plenty of physio so I'm hoping I'll be ok to kite in a few weeks time. Being unable to kite has been tough, especially when John makes such great vids flying his Nasa's :(

Iain

soliver - 7-3-2015 at 08:22 PM

Wow, you sound almost exactly like me... Broke my heel (kiting accident) 12/17, reparative surgery 12/23 (got some titanium for Christmas too) and just now on my feet and walking unassisted for about 3 weeks. Luckily I haven't needed physical therapy. Now I can wear both shoes :D.... chomping at the bit to get out and fly a kite... I'm thinking I may sneak out on a lunch break this week and do some sit down static flying just to scratch the itch. Get well my friend!!!

IMK - 7-3-2015 at 09:21 PM

Thanks for the well wishes. Sit down kiting......you've got me thinking now.

BTW, looking forward to your thoughts on your NS3's when they arrive.

soliver - 8-3-2015 at 08:27 PM

yes... epic butt scuds:

:D https://vimeo.com/85508225

ssayre - 9-3-2015 at 07:45 AM

Here's an interesting video. It looks like they have changed the bar. If you look towards the end, he is able to adjust the depower and set it. I've not seen updates to born-kite's website on the bars yet but Steffen's new video shows him using a different style of street kite bar as well.






another cool video from the same guy






3shot - 9-3-2015 at 02:40 PM

This is what I've been talking about doing all along.

Hmmm.... Or is the cam cleat all the way up at the bar???

I don't see it further up the line where it is normally.

Thanks for the find.

ssayre - 9-3-2015 at 03:36 PM

I'm still trying to find steffen's secret bar web page.

ssayre - 12-3-2015 at 06:37 PM

FYI, Steffen officially added the 8.5, 10, and 12.5 to the line up on the website. He must have gotten tired of a answering "how much is a 10 meter" question.

3shot - 12-3-2015 at 06:40 PM

:D:D:D

dangerdan - 13-3-2015 at 09:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
FYI, Steffen officially added the 8.5, 10, and 12.5 to the line up on the website. He must have gotten tired of a answering "how much is a 10 meter" question.


12.5m on a Nasa 3 ?
Do we even know how this handles and what's the advantage of having one this big.

soliver - 13-3-2015 at 10:04 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
FYI, Steffen officially added the 8.5, 10, and 12.5 to the line up on the website. He must have gotten tired of a answering "how much is a 10 meter" question.


Awesome!!!! :wee:

ssayre - 13-3-2015 at 11:25 AM

"12.5m on a Nasa 3 ?
Do we even know how this handles and what's the advantage of having one this big."

They made these sizes in the ns2 as well on special request. John Holegate has a 10. These sizes just expand the light wind range for traction purposes. Not flown any of these sizes yet, but I would assume they would handle well.

soliver - 13-3-2015 at 11:46 AM

Like you said in your email a few weeks ago Sean, 10m is next up for me... if possible


anybody want a Reactor? :smilegrin:

John Holgate - 13-3-2015 at 03:08 PM


Quote:

Do we even know how this handles and what's the advantage of having one this big.


My 10m handles really well. Still just about spins on a wing tip. Has about 1.5 knots better low end than the 7m. I can park and ride in a 6 knot southerly. For a big kite, these are much more agile than something like the Peak 9m - although that's only based on one lightwind fly with the Peak. Certainly far more nimble than my 7.5m Apex was.

3shot - 13-3-2015 at 04:32 PM

I am gonna need new NASA Stars after Jekyll. A 500 mile trip log sounds about right. I should be able to offer up some good feedback as well. I might even make a bid for the resident North American "Holgate" title after all those miles :evil:

ssayre - 13-3-2015 at 04:38 PM

You will easily earn the title as long as you produce holegate quality event videos :D

3shot - 13-3-2015 at 05:05 PM

Hmmm...That might be a problem then. Back to the drawing board. John has epic vids to back up his epic runs.:cool:

I'll already have a three day head start on Spencer lololol :D

soliver - 13-3-2015 at 06:14 PM

WHOA THERE BUDDY...

not sure where I was going there but I definitely felt a twinge of competitive jibbing coming from the Virginia region...

You've already got 1 up on me before JIBE even stars since you will have 2 more NASAs in your pack than me... plus 3 extra days on the beach... yea... I'm doomed :no:

3shot - 13-3-2015 at 07:30 PM

Lol Spencer. Just funning around. I am curious how my GPS will look on day 7. Its like all year built up to JIBE to finally stretch my NASA's legs.

John Holgate - 13-3-2015 at 08:35 PM


Quote:

I am gonna need new NASA Stars after Jekyll. A 500 mile trip log sounds about right.


Nah, they'll be fine. You might be a bit worn out though :D If you're contemplating a couple of 100 mile+ days, time for a hotwire/hardwire (not sure of the correct terminology there).

A quick calculation shows I've logged around 1700 miles with the Nasa's - they might not be quite as 'crinkly' as they were when they were new, but they're all flying completely fine with no issues so far.

3shot - 14-3-2015 at 06:26 AM

1700 :o. You are the master John!!!!
I've got 5 gopro batteries now. I'm sure I can get some footage of a few 5 mile treks lol.

ssayre - 14-3-2015 at 09:29 AM

That's impressive john. Just doing some quick math, I'm probably just over 100 miles with them. 60% with the 7m, 30% with 5m, and 10% split between 2.5 and 4.

doneski - 14-3-2015 at 10:09 AM

That's one well behaved kite. I'm impressed. My wife hates tangled lines and would probably be real happy skating or skiing with one of those.

doneski - 14-3-2015 at 11:27 AM

That's one well behaved kite. I'm impressed. My wife hates tangled lines and would probably be real happy skating or skiing with one of those.

soliver - 14-3-2015 at 08:13 PM

Hey, John... what the latest update on the comp?... just curious :smilegrin:

John Holgate - 14-3-2015 at 10:09 PM

Was hoping we'd be good to go by now but it's taking longer than we thought. I'd love to say a couple weeks but I've said that already and we all hate it when we're waiting for something and keep getting told 'it'll be two weeks'. I'm really chomping at the bit myself and if I could speed things up I would.

I'm also waiting for Aus Post to deliver me some NS3's as well - in previous years, it took 9 days from Germany to me. The competition kite took over a month to get here and the current NS3's are well over a month and are yet to arrive. Sigh.....the waiting game..... not my favorite.

soliver - 15-3-2015 at 04:29 PM

Only 9 days?!?!? We US guys have to wait 3 to 7 week!!!!... Thanks to our ultra speedy and highly efficient government run customs dept.

Maybe you and I will get ours at the same time... Mine shipped out Friday. :wee:

ssayre - 15-3-2015 at 04:59 PM

That's good Spencer. Should be between 2-3 weeks from when it shipped. I think John just got really lucky the last time. I talked to Iain (IMK) and he said his took around 4-5 weeks just like us. FYI - they usually require a signature so if your not home they will leave a note to pick it up at usps. At least that's how 2 of my 3 orders were. It's always a surprise. :)

soliver - 15-3-2015 at 05:49 PM

Sweetness,... might be just in tome for my first post-broken foot flight!!! Truly ushering in the era of NASAs!!!

BTW... anybody wanna buy a Reactor???? :smilegrin:

3shot - 15-3-2015 at 06:16 PM

Glad they shipped Spencer!! :thumbup:

rofer - 23-3-2015 at 08:45 AM

What's the top end look like on these kites?

Whenever I got enough wind to keep my HQ NPW up in the air it was usually something like 20+mph gusts with ~5mph lulls. I'm wondering how much better the NS3s will handle conditions like this. I imagine having some kind of depower will be a major improvement (even if I only use it as a safety). Mostly I want to know that these kites aren't going to be ripped apart if I take them in winds with some major gusts.

I'm currently considering getting a 4.0m for when we get stormy weather with 20-30mph gusts and an 8.5m for when there's very little wind and I'm just desperate to get out.

John Holgate - 23-3-2015 at 01:46 PM

30mph with a 4m? Yikes, I wouldn't like to do that. The most I've flown the 4m in is about 22 knots and that was getting a little out of my comfort zone. I'd be thinking more like the 2.5m - which I tend to grab now instead of my Access XT 4m. These things are all about the low end - I can park and ride with the buggy in about 10knots with the 4m - I can't do that with any of my 4m foils. When I've rode side by side with same size low aspect foils, the NS2's have been better in the low end with the foils performing better in the top end. In 20 - 30 knots, I'm usually flying the 1.5m NS2. These things are really grunty and park and ride at relatively slow speeds, they don't really increase in power as much as a foil as the wind increases.

The quality seems A1 to me and I can't see them being ripped apart - I've not had any problems whatsoever in that dept.

For the wind ranges your considering, a 4m or 5m LEI could be a better choice? I've seen Rob Lukin leave me behind with his 4m Airush LEI in 14 knots when I was flying my 5m Frenzy. I've seen him with the same kite in 35knots posting almost 90kph - that's one hell of a versatile kite.

Mind you, for the price of the NS3's, it could certainly be worth trying a 2.5m or 3.2m. The 4m would be too much in 20+knots methinks.

rofer - 23-3-2015 at 02:05 PM

There are two reasons I'm looking at NS3s for these winds rather than something like an LEI.

First, I absolutely don't have the space to fly with regular length lines. I was planning on flying either off the handles, off 5m lines, or off 9m lines. The only reason I'm even trying to fly kites here is because the alternative is to not fly kites at all.

Second, my wind is really variable. While the gusts can go as high as 30 mph there are often lulls down to ~5mph with the average wind speed being somewhere in-between. Previously I'd been flying in these conditions with my 6.0m HQ NPW5 and while severely overpowered at times I never felt like I was in danger since the kite killers always took away most of the power. So long as the 4m NS3 doesn't pull significantly harder than my old NPW (and the safety works at least as well) I'm not worried about the power.

If I were to step down to a 2.5m I worry that I'd spend 90% of the time with the kite on the ground and 10% properly powered. I'd much rather have the kite in the air 90% of the time even if I'm significantly overpowered 25% of the time.

What I am worried about is actually damaging the kite in these conditions. I trust myself to know when I'm in danger, but I have no idea what these kites can withstand.

ssayre - 23-3-2015 at 02:56 PM

Assuming that they are built as well as the nasa star 2, which I'm sure they are, you won't have anything to worry about. If you hit the safety, the only annoyance you will have is the occasional bridle tangle (much lessened if you have Steffens lines with knot sleeves). I've flown them in some pretty gusty conditions where my full weight and buggy weight get dragged hard sideways. They might punish you if you are grossly overpowered but the stitching and fabric will hold just fine. I'm no light weight and I use them on gravel and asphalt and I kite way more often than I should.

rofer - 23-3-2015 at 03:04 PM

Just what I was looking to hear! Now I just need a day or two to justify buying these new kites instead of the Kitewing I was eyeing.

John Holgate - 23-3-2015 at 06:42 PM

Ah, short lines....I was talking 20m lines and apparent wind kicking in. Short lines you can throw it straight over your head to kill power and it will be much less likely to lift you than a low aspect foil.

The only three things I've learned with short/no lines: was flying nicely powered with the 2.5m one day, and I swapped to the 4m straight from the bar....and couldn't even get going.

First time I flew the NS2's was on 6m lines and thought....meh...big deal. Then swapped to 20m lines and immediately thought Whoah!! that's more like it!!

Put the 2.5m on 6m lines on the claypan with the carbon buggy in 25 knots - had to work the kite like crazy to get going but when you get up to speed and apparent wind kicks in.....hang on!

Huge difference between 6m lines and 20m. In that case you'd probably need the 4m or 5.5m, but boy, if you get any speed up, they're gonna pull some. :D

There's a bit of vid of myself and Mark at Narrawong at the start of this vid, I think it would have been 15knots or thereabouts - I had just enough power to park and ride with the 3.2m in the buggy and Mark is comfortably cruising with the 5.5m straight off the bar. He was moving at one point too, I was doing 45kph ish and was struggling to catch up to him.

soliver - 26-3-2015 at 03:32 PM

Today I called DHL and was able to get the USPS tracking # since it has been through customs... Just checked and my NS3s have arrived and departed the Atlanta USPS facility... Pretty sure wifey will be home to sign for the package tomorrow ... New kites tomorrow... Wuhoo!!!

3shot - 26-3-2015 at 03:48 PM

:D:thumbup::cool:

soliver - 26-3-2015 at 06:00 PM

Jason, do you fly your NS2s off a carabiner on your Link Spreader bar?

3shot - 27-3-2015 at 04:23 AM

No Spencer. I use the regular spreader hook.
You could though. You still need to attach the 3rd line like normal, but a carabiner will work on your D ring spreader. That makes an easier transition back to your foils.

Just with the carabiner, you won't be able to unhook on the fly and depower. You'll need to get very mindful of the yellow ball to operate the depower with the caribiner. The kite will still function as normal other than that. Some don't mind not unhooking the NASA Star, but I like to depower with the bar a bit while getting in and out of the buggy. Then just pull down, hook in, and whoosh! To each their own.

Remember I'm a big boy with a heavy VTT and extra wides on grass. I need a little more pop to get rolling, so a larger kite helps. That's why I depower a bit in setup.

JIBE will be a whole new learning experience with my NASAs. Almost like starting all over again with that smooth hard pack sand. Virtually no rolling resistance there!!

soliver - 27-3-2015 at 07:25 AM

I don't foresee wanting to fly my FB foils hooked in any time again soon :o... Looks like I need a spreader bar :(

3shot - 27-3-2015 at 07:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by soliver  
I don't foresee wanting to fly my FB foils hooked in any time again soon :o... Looks like I need a spreader bar :(


I was more so referring to switching back when using the AQR on the link spreader.

Nothing wrong with flying the Star 100% hooked in all the time. If things get squirrely, just give the yellow ball a tug to scrub the power. Its really just a personal preference on the depower operation. Letting the bar in and out vs. pulling the yellow ball in and out. It has the same effect.

Just my humble opinion. :thumbup:

ssayre - 27-3-2015 at 10:44 AM

I have been controlling speed and power by window placement and controlled fish tails. If that fails than I hit the main safety. I don't have to hit it that often, but it has saved me a couple times. The yellow ball works fine as long as your under control and just need to bleed some power, but if it gets sketchy you have to be careful because as soon as you let go, or accidentally let go of the yellow ball, BANG power on.

soliver - 27-3-2015 at 11:20 AM

Good info which I'll need soon as wifey just texted that my NS3s are on the front porch... :wee:

3shot - 27-3-2015 at 01:29 PM

Awesome. Waiting on your post tonight!!:D

soliver - 27-3-2015 at 01:40 PM

I got home and had time to open the box and pull everything out before I had to leave again... I'll be home in a couple hours to inspect more closely ... I'll post some pics and comments for sure!

Wait a Minute Mr Postman!!!!

soliver - 27-3-2015 at 08:03 PM

YEAH BUDDY!!!

So my brand spankin new 5.5m and 7m NASA Star 3s showed up today, and what they say is 100000% correct:... Extremely beautiful craftsmanship and build quality,... really well made stuff!!! The fabric reminds me of the same stuff that Ozone kites are made of.

Here's the whole shipment:



The 5.5m:



and the 7m:



I particularly like the color scheme on the 7m...

And boy howdy are they BIG :o ... that book shelf in the background is about 9.5 feet long end to end.

I'm SUPER excited and a little anxious to try them out. The weather looks like poo next week, but I'll give them a go ASAP.

OH, and here's a helpful tip I was emailing Sean about earlier: after the shipment leaves Germany and gets into the hands of US customs, you can kinda lose tracking on the shipment, but if you call the 1-800 number for DHL customer service and give them the DHL tracking #, they will give you the USPS tracking # to keep a watch out for delivery!!!

B-Roc - 27-3-2015 at 08:25 PM

Did you get the depower or street bar and what length lineset?

soliver - 27-3-2015 at 08:54 PM

I got the standard depower bar set up with the 20m line set... I'll be primarily buggying, but am thinking about getting some inline skates or maybe a longboard.

Once my 8.6m RII sells I'll order a 4m and probably get another bar with some 5m lines, and hopefully some used inline skates on CL.

John Holgate - 27-3-2015 at 09:31 PM

Excellent!! I hope the weather cooperates for you. Mine are now a month overdue - I think one of the customs guys must have taken them on holiday with him!

3shot - 28-3-2015 at 01:44 AM

Most excellent!
Your gonna love em'!

ssayre - 28-3-2015 at 05:37 AM

Thanks for posting pictures Spencer! They look great. Can't wait for you to try them. I get just as excited when other peoples kites arrive as if it were me. :)

robinsonpr - 28-3-2015 at 08:12 AM

Yeah come on dude, wanna hear about your first flight being as I'm stuck resting my knee up!

soliver - 28-3-2015 at 03:46 PM

I've got the sticker on my kitemobile now... It must be official

soliver - 28-3-2015 at 03:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by robinsonpr  
Yeah come on dude, wanna hear about your first flight being as I'm stuck resting my knee up!


Looks like there's a small possibility of a light wind flight on Monday at lunch ... We'll see.

3shot - 28-3-2015 at 05:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by soliver  
I've got the sticker on my kitemobile now... It must be official



:D :thumbup:

bigE123 - 30-3-2015 at 03:54 AM

There's been a bit of talk about shorter lines producing less power, do you think it's the fact the wind is less lower down, the kite not moving initially as much or the fact as the line length reduces the tow-point of the bridles is changed and alters the kites characteristics? Just something that's been in my head, about the tow-point, NPW/NASA stars don't have any cross bridles so the tow-points are dependant on the lines, the longer they are the more the kite can open up, go to the extreme of straight on to the handles and the width of the two bridle sets is the bar / handles, which would make the kite have a deeper centre panel.

ssayre - 30-3-2015 at 04:11 AM

Initially starting to get going is slower on short lines but once moving, I'm not sure there is much difference in power between long and short line

John Holgate - 30-3-2015 at 02:49 PM

I think it's just a matter of building speed as you can't swoop the kite like you can with long lines. I had 6m lines on the 2.5m on the claypan in 20-25knots and had to work the kite like crazy to get going in the buggy. But once I got up to 25 - 30kph and the apparent wind kicked in, so did the power.

bigE123 - 30-3-2015 at 02:52 PM

It was just a thought that was kicking round in my head, I haven't tried short / no lines for traction, just seen remarks about lower power, it's obviously just the kite speed that's initially lacking ( and hence the power that generates) to get the show on the road.

sadsack - 30-3-2015 at 05:04 PM

I use my 1.1M2 and my 2.5 M2 NPW5 on very short lines. My lines on my bar are about 10 feet
and they hook into the bridle of the kite. I can tell that there is less power with the kite on short lines. But one day I was using both lines set. I went from long to short, but where I was at the wind was about the same high and low. I was on a skateboard on payment I had about the same power. I think(just from that one day of flying) that it is just the wind.
But I am very new to this, so I don't know much.
renny

soliver - 30-3-2015 at 06:44 PM

First flight today, the 5.5m in relatively nice wind; 9mph gusting to maybe 12+mph... WOW! what an awesome kite. SUPER easy to fly, SUPER stable, turns on a wingtip and AMAZINGLY consistent pull even in the light janky stuff... Even in my state of freshly healed broken appendages, I felt SUPER safe with it and have every intention of flying it hooked in next time... what else can I say but WOW!

Only issue I had was the reverse launch. Maybe I just need to work it.

GoPro was rolling with footage to come... not the best, but you'll be able to see it in flight.

ssayre - 31-3-2015 at 02:27 AM

:thumbup: glad you like it. It's a totally different experience comparatively. Reverse launch will probably get easier? I don't know because mine doesn't come down until I'm packing up? ;)

3shot - 31-3-2015 at 05:17 AM

Glad one went in the air Spencer!! I had the same thoughts about reverse launching when I first flew mine. It gets easier.

dangerdan - 31-3-2015 at 01:38 PM

I still was not satisfied with how the NASA 3 flew on HANDLES. It still wants to fly backwards at times and when I get it to the ground to pack away, the wind would catch it and it would be all over the place and I would have to hang on for dear life.

Today I modified the brakes lines one more time and took it for a test flight in some gusty winds. It flew fantastic !

Some observations:
1 - The top LE and inner TE brake line are now under very slight tension.
2 - The NASA did not fly backwards at all during a 45 minute flight.
3 - When the brakes are applied the LE collapses slightly and the NASA comes down and stays on the ground. No more flapping all over the place.
4 - When flying the kite and the brakes are applied, the kite has a tendency to want to land. The only way to prevent this is to angle it at 45 degree and let the wind inflate it and bring it back up.
5 - When launching the kite , let the wind slightly inflate it, then give both handles a sharp pull and it will go straight up.







Nasa PKF.bmp - 175kB

B-Roc - 31-3-2015 at 02:03 PM

Does that same issue occur when flying on a bar or only handles (for those of you with the kite)?

John Holgate - 31-3-2015 at 02:18 PM


Quote:

Does that same issue occur when flying on a bar or only handles (for those of you with the kite)?



Once in a blue moon. And that's if I turn towards the kite and it runs out of oomph, then it can go backwards. Or if I try to hold it at 12o'clock in very light winds. Even then, I just help it reverse loop and it sorts itself out pretty soon. That's on long lines. If you're going to run it straight off the bar, it will be more prone to going backwards as you haven't got the same apparent wind...until you get moving.

When packing up, I put my knee on the nose of the kite - nose into the wind and bridles facing up and fold it all into the center. If it's light wind, it gets folded nicely. If it's 20 knots, it gets roughly folded into the center and I sort it out later on.

bigE123 - 31-3-2015 at 03:44 PM

The thing I do in stronger winds is walk behind the kite, take hold of the nose and lift it till your feet are under the TE, take a step or two forward and the wings will go to each side of you, you can now bring the wings to the front of you and fold the nose down and it's time to stuff in a bag.

The reverse flying of an NPW is usually too much brake, the problem I see is on the NASA star on handles is you are applying brake to both the LE and TE so the brake effect is exaggerated, may be in handle mode it may be better with the nose on the power line side?

ssayre - 31-3-2015 at 03:57 PM

When packing up, I wad mine up and stuff it. I've done away with any pleasantries. :)

Randy - 31-3-2015 at 05:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bigE123  
There's been a bit of talk about shorter lines producing less power, do you think it's the fact the wind is less lower down, the kite not moving initially as much or the fact as the line length reduces the tow-point of the bridles is changed and alters the kites characteristics? Just something that's been in my head, about the tow-point, NPW/NASA stars don't have any cross bridles so the tow-points are dependant on the lines, the longer they are the more the kite can open up, go to the extreme of straight on to the handles and the width of the two bridle sets is the bar / handles, which would make the kite have a deeper centre panel.


The wind does tend to increase with altitude. There is a "power law" that suggests wind speed,u, is related to height, z, (as compared to a reference height, u0, and z0) like this:

u/u0=(z/z0)^(1/a) It seems that a~7 is a commonly reported number.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_profile_power_law

Since power is related to wind speed squared, the power goes as (z/z0)^(2/7).

For 20 m lines v. 5 m lines (20/5)^(2/7)~1.5. So a 4 meter kite flown at the same angle from 20 meter lines would have its maximum potential power reduced so its equal to about 4/1.5 or a 2.7 M kite. Now, there are a lot of other factors - you may not fly the kites the same way, and the flight angles will not necessarily be the same, but the change in line length, implies that everything else equal, the bigger kite will have the maximum potential power of a smaller flown on longer lines. There are diminishing returns. Going from 20 to 40 m doubles the line length, but would only increase the potential power by 22% - giving the 4 meter as much power as a 4.9 meter.

The power law is pretty well established, but there are a lot of things that impact it - sometime the wind gradient is steeper, sometimes less steep, it varies between land and water, etc. However, part of the effect, and maybe a lot of it is the wind profile effect.

soliver - 31-3-2015 at 07:47 PM

Wow Randy... I suddenly feel the goo that my brain has now turned to slowly oozing our of my ears :o...

That was a lot dude... cool, but a lot!
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