General Flysurfer Peak kite discussion

Peak water launch..?!

Ted and RTZ - I remember reading something a while back about a really good bag. Do you have a link to the web listing of the bag or the PKF thread? Thanks in advance!

A day late and a dollar short! Oh well.

Not to sit around and pout, here is my set up for my complete Peak-2 quiver. From left to right: 12m, 9m, 6m, and 4m, each with their own bar and lines rolled in. The two larger P2s are in 16 L sacks while the two smaller ones are in 11 L sacks. Complete quiver with backpack weighs in right at 25 lbs. Try that with four full sized twin-skins!



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The old Lowe Contour pack.... a great pack with just the right adjustment and not too many or overcomplicated adjustments. Fits a lot of people very well.... and reasonable weight backpack.

That Best bag is good for short haul(and was a steal of a deal for 2 plus laptop) but for long wearing, long trek comfort...the pre-mentioned is a REAL backpack.

Memories...of pack fitting...

Anyway....

Luckily for at least one big Lake, long out and back.... one FB foil kite has worked for what was consistent speed, all day wind. But.....

Nice to be able to haul whole kite quiver because they're so compact and light.

What beside a Peak could give such a well-performing and lightweight packable option for backcountry treks, long wind-variable out and backs..or I guess just short hauls from parking lot next to beach?

My NPW's are even more compact...but not as versatile(performance) or safe( safety release).....but that's at least a possibility for take your quiver to a remote launch area, backcountry ski/kite ski combo tour.

Another advantage of single skins like a Peak..

A little more Peak Porn for the devoted (addicted?)! It was days like today that I was very thankful for my "session-saver" the 12m P2. The Fat Lady flew like a champ in some very light and variable winds. I just love how steady she is in the air.

Today was one of those good days to be alive and able to kite buggy! I had just the right amount of wind today to have a great buggy session with my 9m P2. I had recently switched the tie points of the bar's pigtails to the outside (came stock on the inside) giving me just a bit more effective bar width and therefore reaction to my control. I love its responsiveness set up like this!

I've filmed at this site before; it is my site with the big hill between a soccer field and baseball diamond. Wind was blowing right across the pitch of the hill so I was able to make laps up and down this large terrain obstacle many, many times. It's a rare day around here that so many things came together; free time, good steady wind blowing in the optimal direction, fresh mowed grass, bountiful sunshine, AND NO SOCCER PLAYERS or other buggy site poachers. Yeah!

I wish similar happiness on all my PKF brothers and sisters! :D:D:D

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

I had recently switched the tie points of the bar's pigtails to the outside (came stock on the inside) giving me just a bit more effective bar width and therefore reaction to my control. I love its responsiveness set up like this!

I did this even before taking mine out for the first time Also, early on, trimmed in the mixers a little according to information here on PKF

Tusen Tak khaakon for quoting my thread contribution!

Nice write up on the line extensions. I have a 5m set of line extenders that I currently have on my 12m P2. Definitely a good addition for tweaking that little bit of extra power out of it. I like the idea of the 12m extenders, but regrettably I do all of my flying in relatively small places and already start running out of room with only 5m. I end up taking risks flying the kite out over obstacles to eek out a little extra running room before my turns and have gotten burned a couple of times. With 12m extra I fear I'd really get myself into trouble.

I liken the 5m extenders as giving me an effective 2m extra area on the kite, effectively turning the 12m P2 into a 14m kite. Using that sort of thinking khaakon, how much extra kite do you estimate you get when adding 12m lines to the existing 21m lines on the Peaks?

Quote: Originally posted by robinsonpr

khaakon can you elaborate on this in layman's terms? Or point me at the specific thread?

I dunno, but I can try. The information I found back then is mostly summarized in another thread, but you've read it for sure.

It's mostly about shortening the loops on the lines that holds the 2 pulleys.

Click on the pictures to enlarge;


There are 2 pulleys referred to as B and C [which then by function will be the 'mixers' b&c], and can be identified by the little tags on the lines.


* Slide the larkshead to open the loop on the grey line that holds the pulley (like on the B mixer in the picture). PS! This picture is with the rings in adjusted position, not in starting position.

Mark out the RINGS !! (I carefully used thin black marker on the lines) BEFORE you work loose the ring !!


* Move the metal ring that's hooked twice into the gray line to adjust the length of the pulley-loop.
* To move the ring, you just have to loosen the gray line a little, to reposition the ring. And then retighten the line around the ring. Be careful as not to damage the line!


* Slide the larks head back down and stretch things a bit to make sure everything sits in place.

You will see that I have moved the B metal ring about half as much as the C metal ring [tiny black ink-marks circled in red in the pictures]. You might also notice that I ended up tightening the loop for the C pulley almost as tight as it goes, moving that metal ring ~ 4 cm.

! And the steering line adjustment inside the neoprene handles at the bar is at its shortest setting, 0 on the built in diagram. (no picture)

Peak 2 Line plans at Flysurfer web site [Link]

Quote:

This is what John from PowerZone had to say: "Sure thing, I can tune er up for ya. One last thing you can try on your own (if you want) is to adjust B and C proportionally not separate measurements. So if you make Cmain 2cm shorter than Amain…. Adjust Bmain to half of the distance or 1cm. see if that improves the flight first then we can discuss a tune up"

Maybe other forum members like Feyd can elaborate - or simplify - or clear up any wrong use of terms by a layman

PS! It is not brides ("for somebody that doesn't really understand how the bride is made up?" really made me snigger, Robinson) or bridals, but BRIDLES. /rant over

Great high wind day - perfect Peak conditions!

One situation where the cleat is useful is when landing the kite in strong winds. Landing the kite on the leading edge/upside down, pulling the trim all the way, and letting go of the bar, causes the kite to sit almost flat on the ground with only a bit of the trailing edge in the air (see picture below). I find this method works better than the typical way of pulling the brake lines and landing with the leading edge up.

@pstkk - THAT's ABSOLUTELY AWESOME!!!!!

I can't wait to try that. I can't tell you how many nervous moments I've spent trying to land my P2s in high winds. Scary as crap sometimes. I'll try this next time for sure.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

I got confirmation of my order so the 9m p1 has evaded me no more. :cool2:

Problem solved!

"pink Lady's" big brother that I call simply "blue" arrived and took flight today. Winds were high all day and calmed down just enough to make a buggy a run on the first day of having it. Wind was really better suited for the 6 meter but I couldn't resist. It flew and handled great but unfortunately I was flying extremely guarded as the wind was still punchy so I didn't make any speed runs or throw it around much. Wind was punchy enough that every time I let my guard down and lower it into some power, it would get spooky, especially when just getting used to it. There really wasn't any surprises, it flies pretty much like pink lady only bigger and a considerable amount more grunt for the given wind. Surprisingly, turning felt very similar to the 6. Maybe just a touch slower but really has a similar feel. Look forward to some mild to moderate wind to really do a thorough test. Sorry for the bad picture. I really need a gopro but that will have to wait.

Thanks Spencer. As far as the helmet, we have covered this multiple times. When you see the camera that low to the ground, than it is mounted to my helmet which is not on my head. But, I only filmed a few passes and promptly, landed and removed the camera and wore the helmet. I've actually been much, much more safety conscience lately.

When does you 10m arrive?

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

I'm probably not qualified to answer as I don't snow kite and I would not use my 6 or 9 in 30 mph and do not have a 4 meter, BUT I will say I feel good on the 6m up to 20ish and it's powered at 12 and I can handle the occasional higher gust but I wouldn't want to ride with sustained 20+ wind for my personal liking. Feyd has talked about using the 6 in higher wind. Feyd's write up compared the access 6m and 4m peak and sounded like the access came out ahead but it's a little more dough

Yeah I did read that writeup. Always helpful to hear what others think though. Newer access kites are definitely more $$$ but I have flown older ones (2009ish) and I have the sense that anything since then is probably pretty solid in terms of stability in high wind.

Feyd probably has 15 times my flying hours, although I am not afraid to hook on to big kites in high wind. The immense depower of those flysurfer kites keeps things manageable.

I've also seen reasonably cheap flysurfer Virons in small sizes. I wonder if anyone here can compare those? Besides the peaks probably having a wider range with the really stretched low-end (for their size), I wonder if anyone has any direct experience with those?

Quote: Originally posted by yeti

Lots of discussion around the peaks in here, so since I'm considering getting one, I am wondering what the largest size would be that is still usable in something like 30mph wind? It sounds like they are very fast but I don't mind a responsive kite if it's actually stable enough to fly with one hand. If a 6m is the choice then I think that's the right gap to my next foil @ 11m, so I guess I'd really only need to consider one more kite. Although if I got a 4m size, maybe I'd have a more than slightly uncomfortable gap in the range?

Yeti - glad to hear you are considering a Peak! I have the complete quiver of Peak-2s and swear by them. I have used them quite a bit this year seated in the buggy and have come to really appreciate their design and function. Yes, you can ride with one hand on the bar if need be, but expect to need to come back with the other hand from time to time.

I've not yet done any snowkiting but plan to do a lot of it this winter using my P2s. On the XK forum I recently wrote the descriptions below about my supposed wind ranges. Your experience could differ and I suppose snowkiting could set up different sorts of resistance patterns too which could change these. Offsetting these hypothetical variables is the very real variable that cold wind is denser than warm wind so 20 mph wind in the dead of winter packs more punch than the same wind in summer.

In simplest terms I'd break them down like this:

4m: "wasp on a string". Highly caffeinated Peak with all the DP capability that you enjoy on other peaks. Starts to shine in base winds in the high teens with gust 20+ mph. I've had this kite up in winds with gusts well over 25 mph and felt in control.

6m: great kite, slightly more subdued than the 4m. Good in a wide range of winds from Low to high teens in mph. Starts feeling like a lot of kite in gusts exceeding 20 mph if you need to turn around a lot

9m: best in the lot. Great for winds over over 10 mph. Starts feeling like a lot of kite in winds over 15 and darn right scary over 20.

12m: I nick named this kite "Session Saver". Will launch in 3 mph winds and provides good motive power starting at 5 mph. You will wish you had a smaller kite in the air if the wind gets over 15 mph.

You mention wind over 30 mph. Not sure if you mean base wind or gusts. If it were base winds no Peak over 4m would ever get launched by me. The couple times I've had the 6m up in winds with gusts hitting at around 25 mph in warm weather had me sheeting out and trimming the kite at the cleat. Doable, but pretty nerve racking. This is in the buggy. On skis I know you can slide sideways to take out some power, assuming you've got the room to do this.

Hope this helps. Chris (feyd) would be the best person to comment on this.

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Yeti - glad to hear you are considering a Peak! I have the complete quiver of Peak-2s and swear by them. I have used them quite a bit this year seated in the buggy and have come to really appreciate their design and function. Yes, you can ride with one hand on the bar if need be, but expect to need to come back with the other hand from time to time.

We probably have different scales for what is the right amount of power. Getting moving on wheels is most likely easier than sliding on snow.

I don't tend to consider myself overpowered unless the kite is starting to lift me with the bar sheeted out, flying it statically, kite at zenith. I tend to ride with pretty close to the same amount of power as on water, unless the surface is crusty or hard packed. Wearing about 30 lbs more gear in the winter tends to require a little extra oomph. Once I'm dressed with skis on my feet, I probably weigh close to 200 lbs.

20mph is not out of the question with something like an 11m frenzy or a 15m speed 3 as long as the gusts are not much more. A 10mph baseline speed works good for me on those wings, but up to 20mph is acceptable. The speed 3 can easily work down below 10mph depending on the surface conditions. I'm sure a peak 12 is a much better light-wind kite but I have to assume the 9m is probably close in power aside from the fact that it will probably still launch and fly alright in less than 7mph wind.

I have to assume the 4m peak would be more like a 5-6m foil kite. And from what I'm reading about the depower range here, using it in 30mph wind must be great as long as you don't mind the wasp effect?

"FWIW the 9m PK 1 with 3m line extensions can hold its own against the Speed 3 15m in terms of power and out performs it in light wind. "

Feyd, not sure which one your referring to. Is this the one :D

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

"FWIW the 9m PK 1 with 3m line extensions can hold its own against the Speed 3 15m in terms of power and out performs it in light wind. " Feyd, not sure which one your referring to. Is this the one :D

Schwing!

Quote: Originally posted by FrontRangeJeff

Hey Brad, I'd say the Peaks do not compare size wise to what you are used to....I can hold my 12 Peak 2 down on snow in just about anything....but it is mostly my absolute light wind kite. Any high wind and I'll be either on my 7 Razor or 4.5 RPM. I'll use the Peak when I can't get anything else to stay in the sky but as soon as I hit the 12+mph range I'll go 14 meter Nitro instead. They (Peak) are a pretty different animal (in my opinion) Knowing how much kite you can and do carry I'd say in 30mph you could hold down pretty much anything :D. The Peaks will fly in almost no wind but they don't generate power in the same way.

only flown 6 and 9 p1's but I know enough to know your not going to do anything more than JUST hold a 12 down in 30 and flapping like mad. I doubt you would be doing any good riding under those circumstances. I'm not disputing at all that you guys ride powered, but there is a difference in holding something down versus using it. I would welcome video of using it in the 30's if you have it. :evil:

Also all kites are different and build power in different ways, but what is similar with peak and all the kites I've flown so far is apparent wind will kick in and it will generate the similar exponential amounts of power.

Quote: Originally posted by FrontRangeJeff

Ssayre, Didn't say I'd choose to hold down my 12 in 30 - I referenced Brad's ability to hold what I'd consider a large amount of kite when I'm on something smaller (we've kited same wind when he was on a 15m speed 3 and I was teaching a buddy to snow kite on a 5.5 meter Apex) so his mileage would vary dramatically. That basically any of the kites he specifically asked for info about (smaller peak sizes) may fit the bill. A 12 is not a high wind kite and there is no way I'd want to kite with mine in 30 - if I gave that impression then yeah - that is absurd...not sure where you read that because I specifically stated that in 30mph I'm on my 7 razor. Regards to my 12...my pigtails on my centers reduced my upper wind range. If at 10,000 feet (much diminished air density) in deep snow with my center pigtails removed would holding down my 12 be possible...yeah but...it would be survival kiting and terrible...so would I want to? Heck no. Jeff

I'm with you Jeff! Survival kiting is right with a 12m P2 in those conditions. It would likely become a Code Brown event for me. You and I likely experience comparable winds (mine being in the Wasatch between 7000 and 9000 where I'm likely snowkiting). I suspect I'll be pulling my 4m P2 out of the bag if the winds include 30+ mph gusts. I figure any conditions that I'm willing to kite in that include 30+ likely have a base wind in the low 20's. Plenty enough for little old me!

Quote: Originally posted by FrontRangeJeff

Ssayre, Didn't say I'd choose to hold down my 12 in 30 - I referenced Brad's ability to hold what I'd consider a large amount of kite when I'm on something smaller (we've kited same wind when he was on a 15m speed 3 and I was teaching a buddy to snow kite on a 5.5 meter Apex) so his mileage would vary dramatically. That basically any of the kites he specifically asked for info about (smaller peak sizes) may fit the bill. A 12 is not a high wind kite and there is no way I'd want to kite with mine in 30 - if I gave that impression then yeah - that is absurd...not sure where you read that because I specifically stated that in 30mph I'm on my 7 razor. Regards to my 12...my pigtails on my centers reduced my upper wind range. If at 10,000 feet (much diminished air density) in deep snow with my center pigtails removed would holding down my 12 be possible...yeah but...it would be survival kiting and terrible...so would I want to? Heck no. Jeff

Thanks Jeff, I get it. Just didn't want some poor unsuspecting newbie thinking the peaks are forgiving enough to go straight for the big ones for low and high wind.

As far as a high wind engine, I'm not sure if I would choose 4m peak or not. I so rarely have usable high wind that it's never been a big consideration for me. I will say that single skin is great for unpredictable moderate wind and low wind because they handle lulls so well and are very light. When you get to high wind engines, the single skin becomes less of a consideration and stability / depower becomes the main focus. Not flown the LEI's but it sure looks like those are great performers as you guys in the mountains seam to universally like them and also beamerbob recently in the desert and of course Redsky in his epic 60mph wind and 5m bet waroo video. (I think that was the kite)

Just want to share my experience and have a question to owners of Peak2.
I have a Peak2 9m and enjoy from 2015. Got it from dealer. I looked to a repair kit on flysurfer website and seems to me I saw a spare depower grey rope. When I got a kite I didn't find that spare rope. Asked dealer who said that I don't need it because those ropes are tested and of a good quality and will last for years.

For the first time I use infinity bar which comes with Peak2 and depower grey rope looks worned out to me after about 20 sessions. I used it on water kitesurfing and doing snowkiting. I'm 70kg, so no extra tension on lines. Take care about equipment.


Is it OK or I have to replace it already? Does anybody else have the same situation?

Hi Lesha, welcome to the forum!

It is OK. Your rope is showing wear but nothing to be concerned about yet. It does take a long time before wear becomes a problem but eventually, especially in conditions where the kite is exposed to sand and water, you will need to replace the line.

We have replacements in stock at HARDWATERKITER.COM but it looks like you are okay for now.

If you want more information about tuning and performance add ons for your Peak 1 please check out our Peak 1 resource page.

http://www.hardwaterkiter.com/peak-1-resource-page.html


On a different note, I'm currently making some changes to our old Peak 1 demo. Its already a great kite but I want to make it even more reliable and failure proof. I want to remove the specialized components like the front line leader with the alloy ring so that you can replace it with anything, anywhere. I'm also removing the pulleys. Not that I've had a single issue, just because I think they are a weak link in kites and I have something that will work as well.

Maybe.

Oooh man.... More Peak 1 mods??

You're in Halifax Yeti. Take a small winter break and come down here to NH. You're welcome to come try out the Peaks or any of our demos. You're right, otherwise its a leap of faith and a decision based on reports/opinions from people who may or may not really know how to fly kite XYZ or have enough time on it to form a worthwhile opinion. Often, better than nothing but not nearly as good as flying it first hand with the people who know it well right there with you. Snowkite is one of the only sports I know where you are expected to drop money on something sight unseen. Skis, you can demo. Bikes, same. Cars, yup. Even water kites seem to have more demo access. We're doing our best to change that by offering demos here. But it only works if people come to usnornwe go to them.

It's true, they are all good kites. It really depends on your tastes and needs. But don't let the "touring kite" label fool ya, the Peaks are pretty ridiculous fun to ride.

I was out last night playing with our new 6m school kite and I had forgotten how nimble it is. There is nothing else out there that I can think of that can be thrown around and positioned like the Peak. It makes me laugh. And unlike the Peak 1 the peak 2 will boost. Not like a Psycho 4 but if the winds are up its boosts surprisingly well. To be honest, I never really explored the boosting potential of the Peaks. But last night I played with it and started to get the timing figured out. I'm a little excited.:D

It really is a shame that it is so hard to " try before you buy " when you fly on land. Back in the day some dealers were generous enough to take part in a " pass the ... kite " plan. Unfortunately it turned into a big hassle for the dealers and we seem to have ruined that opportunity for ourselves. :embarrased:

We have a brick and mortar surf store here. Lots of opportunity to demo water gear but I would have to beg on all 4's to get them to bring in a Peak for me to demo.

Thank goodness for this forum and people like you Feyd! I was going along thinking I would replace my 2.5 pro foil with a 4m Peak. Thanks to your hands on advice I see that I would have bought the wrong kite for my needs. If we can't get our hands on your demos you do a fantastic job of sharing your experience with new products. This place wouldn't be near as valuable to me without you here Kris!

I sure miss the good old days when I had more Ripsession demo's than I had days to try them.

Thanks for the kind words Blade. (isn't it like CRAZY early for you out there?) I try to help as best I can though to be honest, I always feel a little uneasy sharing my experience with these things as I feel like I'm coming off as a "know it all" which is not my intention. I appreciate being reassured by members like you, who have been here a long time and know where I'm coming from, that I'm doing a service to the forum but I still worry a bit. Since leaving the Peter Lynn team, starting the school and becoming a dealer I'm in the unique position of having access and opportunity to put a broad spectrum of kites to work and see how they fair both for myself as well as our students and clients. And I'm not a "Fanboy" of any brand. Being neutral is the only way to have your opinion carry any weight IMO. Fortunately it's easy to remain non-brand biased when all of our vendors make such good stuff these days.

I remember the days of "pass the kite". It was an amazing concept but in practice I can see how it became problematic. I wish we could do something similar but from a liability POV I think my insurance company would pretty much laugh at me.

I'm glad you didn't replace your 2.5 Profoil with the 4m Peak. HAHAHAHAHA! Wow, that would have been a surprise!!!:evil:

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

2nd the Peak. Broadest wind range and great low end. Has awesome active gust handling. The 12m is a powerhouse but can be managed well. If the winds get too high it is a great kite to "half line" (doubling back your lines) with. Makes it like having another kite.

Chris - can you please describe how to "half line" a Peak? Those of us watching at home want to follow along! :D

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd   2nd the Peak. Broadest wind range and great low end. Has awesome active gust handling. The 12m is a powerhouse but can be managed well. If the winds get too high it is a great kite to "half line" (doubling back your lines) with. Makes it like having another kite. Chris - can you please describe how to "half line" a Peak? Those of us watching at home want to follow along! :D

I was thinking about that as well and can only imagine that you go up and through the rings you normally larkshead to then connect on the bar side as you normally would but only with 2 loop ends together instead of one. Could be totally wrong but I don't think so. :D

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck   Quote: Originally posted by Feyd   2nd the Peak. Broadest wind range and great low end. Has awesome active gust handling. The 12m is a powerhouse but can be managed well. If the winds get too high it is a great kite to "half line" (doubling back your lines) with. Makes it like having another kite. Chris - can you please describe how to "half line" a Peak? Those of us watching at home want to follow along! :D I was thinking about that as well and can only imagine that you go up and through the rings you normally larkshead to then connect on the bar side as you normally would but only with 2 loop ends together instead of one. Could be totally wrong but I don't think so. :D

My thinking as well. I'm not in a place I can get to my kites right now and that was what I was visualizing too. What was hanging me up without looking at the setup layed out was how the "5th line" flag out system would work with the lines doubled back as you describe. I'm thinking that if I'm going to this sort of MASH unit fix in the field I'm a long way from my base and the wind is strong, making the possibility of pulling the safety a genuine possibility.

Quote:

aha the footage has mysteriously disappeared. we need to get a good private eye on this case. or may be I will look up some of my own footage of the 4m's bad behavior to post when I have time. In all fairness I flew the 6m and it flew ok.

The problem is brutally simple. You bought an apple hoping it would taste like an orange. Flysurfer advertised this kite as an easy introduction to power kiting for beginners and that's it's a touring kite that will pack small and handle back country gusts. It does all that and does it well. It's not the apple's fault it doesn't taste like an orange, but you can do all sorts of stuff with it like cider, apple sauce etc...

So why do I care? Well this style of kite possesses qualities that I prefer for my conditions. I'm guessing here, but I think you bought it hoping it would possess many of the same qualities of your "normal" kites but for few dollars less (costs less than 6m access I think). When it didn't taste like an orange you didn't like it.

If your going to experiment with kite types, you have to be prepared for the possibility your not going to like it.

If we all preferred the same kite, it would be a pretty boring place around here.

ps. the peak is the most super fantastic kite the world has ever known :moon:

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

The peak is the most super fantastic kite the world has ever known.

Exactly! :saint:

Quote: Originally posted by pstkk

This guy is efficient with the 4m: https://www.facebook.com/laurent.hemard.5/videos/10206086739390978

SWEET!

New colours for the 6m and 9m:

cool

Quote: Originally posted by pstkk

New colours for the 6m and 9m:

That purple color would be perfect for my 16m Peak-2. Doh! :karate: