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m00ms - 21-2-2016 at 09:13 AM

ssayre the other day the wind around the 14mph mark with gusts up to 25mph mark so im not timid to go out in a decent wind.sadly here in the uk the weather is all the place so i am just trying to fly the best in what we have.

does seam like i maybe have my brake lines a little tight mixed with clumsy hands but being new to this i guess i will make some mistakes

i do appreciate peoples advise and help and sure with some more time spent i will sort these problems

ssayre - 21-2-2016 at 09:48 AM

sorry mooms, didn't mean to sound judgmental or scare you off from asking questions. The folks on here genuinely enjoy helping so keep at it and keep asking questions until you've got it down.

Speaking from my personal experience starting out, I would highly advise leaving lines attached to kite and using the sock method or similar for wind up. Even If you get the kite dirty or wet, I would still always leave the lines attached when I cleaned or aired out. This allows the set up and pack up to be quick and painless and encourages quick impromptu sessions when time is limited. Nothing wrong with detaching lines every time if that's what's working for you though.

abkayak - 21-2-2016 at 10:57 AM

I have spring clips hanging in front of the garage..when i get home if I need to, I hang the kite leading edge down get the sand, seaweed and crustations out and hose or blow it down
It gets me off the beach fast and carefree and I take care of the equipment on my terms

m00ms - 21-2-2016 at 11:01 AM

thats fine and not a problem.this forum has been a great help and i very possibly would not of taken up this hobby without it and the help from all on here.

it didnt take long to set up kite the other day and re attach the lines but now over here in the uk the evenings are getting lighter longer and its almost to the point where if the wind theres then i can get some pratice in after work so i will try the lines attached option then.

John Holgate - 21-2-2016 at 01:49 PM


Quote:

.i may have been trying to do down turn but not at edge of window fully,is that a problem? would i be right in saying not as surely theres still power there to keep kites shape


Spot on - the further in from the edge of the window you are, the more power you've got. And if you're in 14 - 25mph winds, I doubt you're running out of power at the edge of the window. Sounds like too much tension on the brakes which will push all the air out of one side causing a stall and sometimes a spin. Any chance of a video?

m00ms - 22-2-2016 at 11:58 AM

i dont have a go pro but if i can attach my phone to my rucksack strap i will try and get a video next time i get out.hopefully loosening brakes lines by a knot will help out and just leave clumsy hands to sort out!

m00ms - 26-2-2016 at 08:46 AM

hey all,

9 mph wind today with no gusts so i toke the 4m out for its first flight! can i say i like it a lot!

i have managed to find out what was going wrong with the brakes.i found that that when pulling the brakes i was pulling it strange so handle was not really pivoting around where the top line is between your fingers if that makes any sense,so the brake was not really getting pulled much.

also had a look at why more slack brake on one side,checked lines length and all seamed ok so i adjusted the knot on the top power lines on the handles to equal it out when flying.not sure if that is normal to do that but now when flying both brakes lines have same slack on them.

also found today that you do not pack up and go home when you get tired or hungry but only when the wind dies off!!

ssayre - 26-2-2016 at 08:57 AM

:thumbup: awesome mooms. Is it the latest beamer or the model before? both are great looking kites

m00ms - 26-2-2016 at 09:45 AM

thanks ssayre,both my beamers are version 6.

2m is red/yellow/white and 4m blue/orange/white.your not wrong,they both look great espically the 4!

Windstruck - 26-2-2016 at 12:17 PM

Sounds as if things are coming together for ya mOOms. Good stuff. :cool2:

m00ms - 26-2-2016 at 01:00 PM

thanks windstruck...yes it does seam to be getting there and i am enjoying it.

wind looks to be very strong gusts rest of weekend so think i am going to try reverse launching the 2m as i tried today with the 4m but kept letting wrong brake off after take off and spinning kite wrong way and putting more twists in or collapsing kite into a ball!

massive thanks and encouragement for all on here for helping me and taking time to write me some tips (sure there will be more!)

Bladerunner - 26-2-2016 at 01:19 PM

Great to here you got the 4m up !

I think your logic is right on. Adjust each side so that the brakes have even slack in them when your handles are in neutral.
This is part of why I find it's best to keep my handles and lines connected + not to swap them. Each kite will want a bit different brake input.

Try and get time in on the 4m. I think you are making too extreme motions. It is very common at 1st. The 4m will be a bit more forgiving of that.

I whole lot of what makes this a valuable forum is being able to help folks like you along. To help you avoid the mistakes we made. It is just rare we get somebody so willing to listen to what we suggest!

m00ms - 27-2-2016 at 08:55 AM

today the winds were stronger at 15mph with gusts forecast later.

i did enjoy flying the 4m yesterday and it was great to fly the 2m today and see the difference.

2m in todays wind was great and strong enough to keep shape and not too strong which meant i could ignore the kite and watch my hands and see how im holding handles.for about 40 minutes it was great and i was in great control and doing wicked brake turns,flying to top of zenith and doing brake flicks so very happy.

but then the gusts came and it was just a nitemare! my control disappeared and kite just became a complete handful.turns out the gust were 30mph so hopefully i can be excused for calling it a day!

i am still swapping kites on the same lines and handles as that seams to be working for me at the moment with how i store/clean kites.i dropped back a knot today on the 2m so that makes both my kites set the same so thatll be easy to remember!

i am reading and taking on board everyones help and comments although i know i am doing different with the lines/handles but all else is a great help and very much appreciated.

m00ms - 3-3-2016 at 08:05 AM

hi all

do we celebrate your first spanking on here? if so the 4m got me today!!

only about 9mph wind and kite was only just holding its shape then a gust came along and before i could bring it down on the brakes i was on my knees then on my side! i thought it was funny and it must of looked like when you see a motor bike rider with throttle stuck open!

Windstruck - 3-3-2016 at 12:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by m00ms  
hi all

do we celebrate your first spanking on here? if so the 4m got me today!!

only about 9mph wind and kite was only just holding its shape then a gust came along and before i could bring it down on the brakes i was on my knees then on my side! i thought it was funny and it must of looked like when you see a motor bike rider with throttle stuck open!


Celebration is absolutely in order! Check out the back end of the kite skate video I posted last night. No shame!

Demoknight - 3-3-2016 at 12:58 PM

M00ms something to keep in mind is when the wind picks up, do not let your first reaction be to get on the brakes. Your first reaction should be to get the kite out to one side and low to the ground, and THEN you can put on the brakes. In strong winds you don't want to go pulling brakes too much with the kite over your head because that can lead you to do the same out of muscle memory when you get picked up in the air. You want to either let it go to kite killers or bring it down to one side or the other before you hit the brakes.

m00ms - 3-3-2016 at 01:46 PM

thanks demon knight i shall remember low and side for next time as i am sure there will be a next time!

when you say let it go to the kite killers am i wrong in thinking that using both brakes together is just a more controlled way of killing it rather than letting the handles go?

Demoknight - 4-3-2016 at 01:19 PM

Letting go to kite killers is a punch turn, not a pull turn. What I mean by that is it gives slack to the power, rather than giving tension to the brakes if that makes sense. If you ever watch a stunt kite tutorial video you will know what I mean by punch turn. Pulling the brakes on a kite to land it is totally fine, just not really something you want to do when you are overpowered with the kite parked over your head. Some fixed bridle kites gain a little pull when you hit the brakes. I know my Toxic did, and my Reactors do. It could just make a scary situation more scary is all I mean. Best thing to do if you are overpowered is either bring it down to one side and then land it with brakes, or just drop to killers from anywhere.

WELDNGOD - 4-3-2016 at 08:36 PM

Kite killers are placed far enough up the brake leaders that when you let go ,the kite flags out and loses internal air pressure ,thereby causing it to become a flapping rag.

m00ms - 5-3-2016 at 01:56 AM

thanks demoknight that makes perfect sense with how you have worded that,its all learning on my behalf and thanks for your help:)

trying to work out what the weather is doing this weekend and if i can get out at some point for some more practice.

m00ms - 13-3-2016 at 08:50 AM

hi all,

just been out for about 4 hours in 12mph wind with only few small gusts which beats previous times of an hour here and there in gusty winds and learnt lots!

started on the 4m but felt bit over powered and after last time it got me so i dropped down to my 2m.i managed to feel the gusts and put the 2m to one side and about a third up out of power as suggested by demoknight,played with brake turns which are now pretty good.

after spending some time on the 2m and getting very confident i went back to the 4m which did feel much better and more in control!

one thing i did find with the 4m in a gust is it trys to climb high in the window when it gets what feels like over power to me.is there a way to deal with that or is that something to get used to?

ive had great time today flying and hope everyone else has been out enjoying?

m00ms - 15-3-2016 at 11:30 AM

hey all can i please ask when ive flown my 4m and it picks up some stronger wind it just climbs high into the window and i could not seam to stop it doing so.

is this normal or is there a way to deal with it?

thanks

m00ms - 16-3-2016 at 11:35 AM

nobody?

Windstruck - 16-3-2016 at 11:43 AM

Quote: Originally posted by m00ms  
nobody?


Kites are beasts unto themselves. Please don't take this the wrong way, but the best way to keep the kite from climbing is to steer it in a fashion that doesn't allow it to do so. Note that this will come at the price of a LARGE increase in kite pull. Welcome to getting "lit".

Are you still flying static? When moving with something that rolls or slides beneath you this keeping the kite low and forward in the wind window will result in large acceleration forces during gusts and possible side sliding depending on what you are on (or in). If static, consider sitting down and cranking your heels into the ground surface and hang on for dear life. Who knows, you may get your first Superman flight!

Memory serves that you are flying fixed bridle kites. Depower kites offer some protection against this by letting the bar out and thus changing the angle of attack. You can do this to an extent by articulating the handles of a FB set up to pull on the brakes. If you are really getting lit this is easier to write about than to do. Good luck! :karate:

abkayak - 16-3-2016 at 11:46 AM

totally normal...a kite tends to head to zenith when the winds blowing hard...if you cant stop it by applying brake or steering it to the side...congrats your officially overpowered
this means time to be real careful and or time for a smaller kite

3shot - 16-3-2016 at 11:50 AM

I was just getting ready to say "3m kite" lol.
Welcome to fixed bridle..
And a kiter's wallet.

Bladerunner - 16-3-2016 at 04:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak  
totally normal...a kite tends to head to zenith when the winds blowing hard...if you cant stop it by applying brake or steering it to the side...congrats your officially overpowered
this means time to be real careful and or time for a smaller kite


Sounds like you have felt fully ( or over ) powered. When the wind is that strong we don't fly the kite all over. We " work the edges " of the wind window.

We want that extra power at the edge of the window when we are moving. We use it to " park and ride ".

Probably the most fun you can have when powered like that is using it to scud down wind. Learn to connect power strokes to keep sliding and sliding.

Static flying fully lit like that is fun but it's really the time to think about down sizing if you don't want that full on power.

m00ms - 17-3-2016 at 12:55 PM

thanks to all for your replies and help with my learning of this sport,thats good to hear that i have found my wind limit with my 4m beamer,i did enjoy the pull but was just was a little un easy when i could not stop it climbing!

yes still flying static but do want to go do a buggy lesson at some points this year which i am sure will give me lots more to learn:)

thanks bladerunner for the scuding idea which sounds great fun....i think!

i brought and collected a cheap flexifoil 5.5 bullet the other day which i might try out either tomorrow or at weekend if wind allows!

do think i also might get a another beamer in 3m as the other day when the 4m was a little too much it might of been perfect

Demoknight - 17-3-2016 at 02:31 PM

Hi m00ms, you should be able to control the kite to place it where you want in the wind no matter how overpowered you are. In fact, being more powered up makes this easier and easier to place the kite where you want it because it will react very quickly and directly in the stiffer winds. You will have to practice more with your kites. Soon enough you will have the lightbulb moment where it clicks and all starts making a lot more sense. Remember to practice holding your kite at places around the edge of the window like numbers on a clock face. Try to hold the kite at 3 o'clock for 10 seconds without it moving, and then move along the edge over to 9 o'clock and hold it there for 10 seconds without it moving, and keep going until you have mastered parking the kite anywhere you want. The next step is to be able to do the same thing blind folded. You will know that you really understand how your kite works when you can predict what it will do before it does it. That comes with time flying and there is no shortcut. You just have to develop muscle memory and reflexes that come with kiting experience. Go fly whenever you can, but stay safe and don't go out if the wind is too high.

3shot - 17-3-2016 at 07:10 PM

That Bullet will have tons more lift then the Beamer. And not only because of it being 1.5m bigger. Yes that, but the Bullet has a higher aspect ratio over the Beamer. A more high performance kite. I use to have Bullets. Man those are awesome kites!!! They start getting a little lifty in their mid wind range. More so in their upper wind range, so use caution. I'm sure you have a helmet now? Even if static flying! A 2m Beamer is one thing. 5.5m Bullets are another. You are now learning kite lift is proportional to wind speed. Different kites produce different amounts of lift. Not trying to harp on the lift thing so much, but you are pretty much a static pitol at this time. Things change up with different dynamics once you become in motion with a buggy or board. You have already seen not being able to hold down a 4m in higher winds. Generally in the nasty gust, the wind will just rip the kite away. Right out of your hands. Some have a gut instinct of hanging on for dear life causing a super man!!

In my most humble opinion mooms, fly in the wind and conditions YOU are comfortable with. No one else. Size your fixed bridles accordingly to the windspeed and gusts. You will learn your personal limits and comfort zone. Make it fun. Not terrifying :thumbup:

New pilot and already three FB kites with a fourth on the mind. My kind of man :thumbup::evil:

m00ms - 18-3-2016 at 11:53 AM

hi demoknight i am planning to get out and practice as and when i can,i did pop out today but the 10mph forecast wind was next to nothing and my 4m was hardly even keeping its shape.

how do i stop the kite at different clock positions ? i find that if kite is in the window then its moving about or if its right at edges of window then its lost all power and collapsing?

hi 3shot and thanks for your advice with the bullet which i will only fly for my first time in really low wind and work up which i did with my 4m beamer.yes i have helmets for my other sports which i could wear but i will admit i have not yet done so,do i see a helmet in your buggy profile photo?!

considering at christmas i didnt own any kites i guess ive done fairly well.i started with a hq symphony 1.8m 2 line then 2m beamer then 4m beamer and then the other day on ebay the bullet came up local to me and the guys advert did not show it at its best as the lines and bridle lines were all twisted and knotted up so it did not sell for high price.

3shot - 18-3-2016 at 12:30 PM

NAPKA requires us to have helmets at NAPKA kiting events. Good things to have in a buggy anyway. You may crash, or someone else's effects could crash into you, etc.

Bladerunner - 19-3-2016 at 09:25 AM

You are putting together a good quiver for traction.

Watch out with the 5.5 Bullet! MANY times I have seen people try to use it as a jumping kite. The Bullets are designed as engines. They are bridled so that the " lift " actually translates better as pull . The Blade was bridled for float. The Bullet gives the impression you can jump with it. Get it wrong, eventually you will, and the Bullet will get sent down wind and SLAM you into the ground!!!!

There is something odd about your lack of ability to park the kite at the edge of the window? If your kite will go straight overhead to zenith and stick there = properly powered it should stick to the edge right down the edge until you can touch the bottom tip to ground.
I suspect you have Janky wind issues? Gusty shifty winds will mean you surge with gusts and drop back deflating on wind stall. Learn to control the kite in those winds and you will be an amazing pilot. Learning to control the kite without looking at it ( essential skill ) will also be a huge challenge compared to clean winds.

ssayre - 19-3-2016 at 09:34 AM

I agree with bladerunner. probably a janky wind circumstance. When in good wind, the kite will park at the edges of the window nicely. If it's gust lull type wind, than it will have a tendency to stall at the edge when you hit a lull in the wind. Everyone has their own safety tolerances but I personally don't feel the need for a helmet when kiting static. I also, take my helmet off frequently while in buggy or board just to use as a tripod, but I put capturing footage as a higher priority than my brain. Not too smart :P

m00ms - 19-3-2016 at 11:04 AM

hi bladerunner and ssayre

i do wonder if the wind has been to blame as its been poor conditions recently and it has been all over the place here in the uk.until taking up this sport have never really paid much attention to the wind.certainly every time i have flown either my 2m or 4m kite each have just lost power and shape at edges of window and wanted to collapse

wind has not been very constant,like today 12mph forecast so i tried flying the 4m but you had nice wind for couple minutes bursts then nothing and kite just fell out of sky! i suppose for the time being i can only keep trying i hope it is the wind at fault and not me!

i am planning to be careful with the 5.5 bullet and have no plan on jumping! i did downhill mountain biking for years and it did my knees and ankles no good so i do hope to stay on the floor!

ssayre - 19-3-2016 at 12:29 PM

Sounds like it's just the wind and not you. i remember awhile back, I had just received a kite in the mail. I flew it for the first time at a spot I don't normally fly at. I thought for sure something was wrong with the kite because I couldn't get it to cooperate. I made it to my normal spot on the same day and it flew perfectly. My best spots are surrounded by corn fields. There are some spots in town that seem like they should work but are just too turbulent.

m00ms - 19-3-2016 at 01:11 PM

i do hope its the wind and not me,the local field i fly on is massive with trees all around the edges but they are a long way away,some of the youtube videos ive watched people are flying on smaller fields,football pitches,tress and houses very close.

could it be worth trying a different field ? your best spot sounds ideal ssayre but sadly i dont have such fields close by and im too far from coast for quick flights.

a little while back when i just got my 2m beamer i did take it and my 1.8m symphony down to the coast,i only flew the 1.8m and that was only about my 2nd-3rd time flying back but thinking back it was a lot smoother there

ssayre - 19-3-2016 at 01:34 PM

Even at my best spots the quality of wind can vary greatly depending on the day's wind. Keep at it. Some days the wind is just better than others when your flying inland no matter the spot.

m00ms - 19-3-2016 at 02:17 PM

ok thanks i will stick with it,wind certainly is a strange old thing!

Bladerunner - 19-3-2016 at 02:41 PM

Wind is fluid! It flows like water.

Just like in a stream the wind will be messed up for 7 to 10 times the distance down wind as they are high. Look upwind at your location and try to picture how water would flow toward you.

I am blessed with clean ocean winds. Are you inland?

YES ...... try other locations !!!!!! One of the many bonuses of flying is it gets me out to all sorts of places I would never otherwise go.

m00ms - 20-3-2016 at 05:22 AM

bladerunner you are lucky to close to the coast,sadly i am about 60-70 miles inland so just think how many tress and buildings the wind has bounced off before i get to play with it!

i will go location shopping then and see what i can find,i am with you on places you wouldnt usually go.

the other week by accident i found a fantastic field on a really posh business park with manicured gardens which looked lovely and it was fairly open around it.it was well quiet being a weekend and i thought how nice it would be to fly here but not sure if security would mind.might go ask as static flying wont harm the gardens!

sadly no wind today so no more practice :barf:

ssayre - 20-3-2016 at 08:10 AM

I'm about 750 miles away from any beach so consider yourself lucky mooms. :)

m00ms - 20-3-2016 at 10:31 AM

wow ssayre thats a long way away from the coast for you to go play sand castles!

can i ask what type of kiting you do then?

ssayre - 20-3-2016 at 11:00 AM

I do as much as I can. Here is a video of a little longboard and buggy



m00ms - 20-3-2016 at 11:22 AM

thats really cool and you make it look effortless!

had quick watch of some of your videos which are all great,on the ones with the nasa star is that really short lines you flying on?

ssayre - 20-3-2016 at 11:41 AM

Thanks! Yes, I fly either 5 meter lines or no lines with the bar attached directly to the bridle leaders. NASA stars are made to fly well with any length of line and with a 2 line bar or 2 line bar with 3rd line to kill power when activated but retain kite. Nasas can be fickle in lightish winds and can back stall easily if not kept moving. As long as there is a breeze they fly great. The other kite I used to buggy with is a flysurfer peak single skin depower. My quiver is tailored to work best with inconsistent inland winds.

m00ms - 20-3-2016 at 12:34 PM

thats really random a kite on 5m lines or no lines! guessing thats the way kiting has evolved.

i will google and read up on both that and the single skin depower as i am always keen to learn!

Bladerunner - 20-3-2016 at 12:57 PM

You have a pretty decent quiver of kites together for fun flying static. I suggest you think a bit about where the sport is taking you before investing in too many things. Depower kites are " all of that " in motion but the kites you have ( on handles ) are more fun to static fly.

Probably your best next purchase may be a harness ? With your Janky winds and all you may not want to rush to hooking in but .... Hooking in while not pushing it allows you to stay out a LOT longer since you don't tire out as much. Flying hooked in with a harness is required for depower.

Changing line lengths changes the size of your wind window. On short lines the kite gets to the edge of the window faster. So it spends less time in the power zone. Great for very high winds and tight spaces. Long lines give you a big window and power zone to stroke through. Often inland and such the good wind is only up high. ( sounds like what is happening to you ).

m00ms - 20-3-2016 at 02:48 PM

that is good to hear that you think i have made good choices with my kites so far.with regards to the 5.5 bullet i cant help getting the feeling that even in the lightest of wind that flying it static is going to be a handful,would i be right?

i tried the flexifoil bar the other day on my 2m beamer and i certainly prefer the handles! found bar hard to launch,hard to land without brake control and boring to fly with!

funny you mention harness as i been looking and thinking seat harness is better than waist harness? are our kite harnesses the same as windsurf ones as ive been looking at second hand harnesses on ebay?

with regards to the future i do want to do some buggy lessons later on this year and have found a place that will teach both kite and buggy sides but i want to turn up able to fly and with selection of kites and a harness and just do buggy side.do buggy learners clip in as i saw a nasty first timer get it very wrong whilst clipped to harness!

that makes sense with the lines length and could be worth a try if this bad wind persists.

Windstruck - 20-3-2016 at 02:57 PM

Mooms - a lot of basic buggy questions get addressed in this video by John Holgate:

Bladerunner - 20-3-2016 at 04:04 PM

Respect but don't be too afraid of the bullet. Well behaved kite that will be an excellent engine for a buggy. I had 4.5 and 7 + a lot of time on a friends 5.5. Lots of pull for scudding etc..

Seat harness is preferred for buggies + most land pilots. Very much a personal choice. You don't have to be hooked in to ride a buggy with FB kites. I know many who never do. The 2 benefits are longer fly time . ( unhooking when trying anything tricky) and for moving up to depower kites. If you go that way.



Windstruck - 20-3-2016 at 04:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner  
Respect but don't be too afraid of the bullet. Well behaved kite that will be an excellent engine for a buggy. I had 4.5 and 7 + a lot of time on a friends 5.5. Lots of pull for scudding etc..

Seat harness is preferred for buggies + most land pilots. Very much a personal choice. You don't have to be hooked in to ride a buggy with FB kites. I know many who never do. The 2 benefits are longer fly time . ( unhooking when trying anything tricky) and for moving up to depower kites. If you go that way.





For land based riding I have had great comfort and success while seated in a buggy with the PL Divine harness: http://www.awindofchange.com/product/pldivine.html

And when standing for snow or skate kiting the Ozone SB harness: http://www.hardwaterkiter.com/harnesses.html

Both are work horse basic harnesses that will work fine for most situations. You can certainly spend more money to get more but these two will set you up fine. I have no experience using the Divine standing or the SB seated but suspect one would get both jobs done if need be. If I were only getting one it would likely be the SB IMHO. Other folks may feel differently but I've been pleased with both all in all.

m00ms - 21-3-2016 at 12:16 PM

hi windstruck and thanks for the harness links and video,i have watched johns buggy video and yes its a great video but for my first time in a buggy i am going to do a lesson as its cheap enough and i will make a day of it.take my kites do some flying before/after the lesson,take my kayak as well and generally have a great day!

thanks bladerunner yes i will respect the 5.5 when i do get to try it out

m00ms - 25-3-2016 at 09:33 AM

hey all,

got to try the 5.5 bullet today for my first time! i had 9mph wind for just over an hour before it died off to next to nothing.

after the initial shock off it i enjoyed it,i found i could park it at edge off window which i have failed with both my hq beamers.i enjoyed it being slower and loved the power!! i was sitting on floor trying to dig feet in but grass was little wet so i was just sliding along.

i did manage to fly out to side of window and keep it low to control its power but i did not try holding it at zenith as think i was being little shy!! i can see that you could get in trouble with it if not careful!!

3shot - 25-3-2016 at 10:10 AM

:thumbup::cool::D

m00ms - 30-3-2016 at 09:21 AM

hey all i have brought a second hand dakine seat harness off ebay which i should receive the next couple of days or possibly tomorrow.

can i ask if there is do or dont's for first time out with a harness? best to ask rather than get in a pickle!

could of done with a harness today as i had great session with my 4m beamer in 12mph with some nice strong gusts.i was sitting on floor,leaning right back in and flying it full in power of the window!

i can certainly feel it in arms,shoulders and hands after hanging on hard!

Demoknight - 30-3-2016 at 12:25 PM

Take it easy your first time with the harness and remember to hold the power of the kite with your hips and sit back into the kite. Let your feet slide in front of you and absorb the power, don't try to fight it. Just hips down and steer the kite lightly with your hands. As you do it more you get used to the feeling. I feel off balance now when I try to fly without my harness. I pretty much only fly hooked in.

Bladerunner - 30-3-2016 at 02:13 PM

Even after years of flying I still unhook when pushing the limits with FB kites and a strop. Especially in strong Janky winds!

The way to extend your fly time is to hook in to walk back upwind and when you are just free flying / resting at 1st. Practice flopping your strop in and unhooking it to the point it is set in reflex memory.

As you build confidence you can remain hooked in and work the power zone. When you get completely comfortable you can stay hooked in to scud down wind. As mentioned get your center of gravity :moon: LOW and your feet out front.

The big issue with hooking in to a strop is in unhooking when over powered. ( or in an Oh Sh ite second ) Many times I have found ( usually with larger kites ) that I can not pull in and down to release the strop do to being overpowered!

m00ms - 30-3-2016 at 11:49 PM

thanks guys for your tips and advice which is very appreciated.

thanks bladerunner that makes sense to practice hooking & unhooking,i am glad i asked as i would not of thought of that!

i can imagine first few times it is going to feel strange/uneasy being strapped to the kite!

one thing i think i will need to do is lengthen the strap between the kite handles because i am tall with long arms and being a seat harness i think the current strap that came with my hq beamers will have my arms to close to body rather out in front.

Bladerunner - 31-3-2016 at 08:10 AM

You will eventually figure out how long a strop you need. I like mine on the short side.

When winds are low and I need lots of influence on the kite I unhook. When hooked in I take advantage of brake turns with much less push pull involved.

Taking the power through your core via the harness feels very different. Be ready for the change.

m00ms - 31-3-2016 at 09:27 AM

hi bladerunner


thats good i will play with strop lengths and pleased i have learnt its correct name :)

when you say about brake turns when hooked in,is that because while hooked in the kites pull is on the harness which will make it easier to brake with less load on handles?

my harness turned up today but after i popped out so i didnt get to use it today.

on the harness there is a strap which i am not sure on,its a long strap which is just under the spreader bar and it is attached just above the leg strap mountings.any ideas?

harness is a dakine speed seat hawaii

Bladerunner - 31-3-2016 at 11:15 AM

You want to develop the ability to combine brake turns with the Push Pull of the handles to speed up turns.

You are going to feel like you need a long strop while learning to add brake input. Your Janky winds will add the feeling you need a longer strop. As mentioned I unhook when needing to wrestle with the kite in low Janky winds and a shorter strop.

When you get in motion a lot of your control will be just minor inputs on the brake while hooked in and taking the load through your core. At that point you will likely want a shorter strop.

SO MUCH changes when you get in motion. Look at your harness as a way to extend your fly time while flying static. + getting used to taking the power through your core.

m00ms - 31-3-2016 at 12:18 PM

i think i am with you on the push/pull brake turns and can do really tight turns now with exception of when i get over powered.

whats your thoughts on this strap on my harness that i am not sure about? i watched a similar harness video on youtube and they called it a hold down strap and it went over the spreader bar to stop harness riding up when kite climbs,does that sound right?

wind is looking good tomorrow at around 13mph so i am thinking my 4m beamer wth harness!

Bladerunner - 31-3-2016 at 03:17 PM

YUP, I think the extra strap is to hold your spreader down as described.

m00ms - 1-4-2016 at 07:35 AM

got to try the harness today with my 2m beamer.i tried hooking/unhooking and was happy with that but i did find that when flying i would allow strop to go loose and unhook its self by accident.i did like being on the harness and it didnt feel to strange,might be different when i fly bigger kites!

and for my next bit of advice and feel free to tell me i am going mad!! can wind change direction almost instantly ?

wind was good and strong and forecast at around 15mph but i kept finding things like if i went to left edge of window no power but then that would be full power and i could go even further around.if you timed it right you had a really wide window or get it wrong and you would fly completely out of the window.few times in power the kite would just fall out of sky due to wind change.

seamed very strange goings on today and i stuck with it for couple of hours!!

Bladerunner - 1-4-2016 at 12:12 PM

YES, you will feel the power through your harness much more with your bigger kites. That will result in less of that false release.

Trying to fly hooked in slightly concerns me if the winds are as Janky as you describe? Just to counter react to shifts and gusts like that I would need the extra arm room to keep the kite flying.

Yes wind can change direction and do all sorts of strange things if it is not clean wind. It flows like fluid or a gas after all. I really think your problems are related your location. Can you show us the park on Google Earth or something?

m00ms - 2-4-2016 at 06:24 AM

just went out again with my 2m and its definitely janky winds.in a 5 minute flight i was getting nice strong wind for couple minutes,surge of wind,and no wind with kite falling out of sky!

going to have to try different locations which is a shame as field i am on is very close to home and possibly largest bit if green around!i did find a smaller field near by which has nice flat surrounding areas which would of been perfect apart from its covered in electric pylons!!

also been watching trees movement at home and they are same,one minute no movement and next lots of action so makes me wonder if in general my wind is poor sadly

3shot - 2-4-2016 at 07:12 AM

Yes mooms. You are officially in the janky wind club. Such as I and many others. Your free club benefits packet should be on its way. Included in this special members only packet are, but not limited to:
New curse words to use.
Ear plugs for the ladys and kiddos at the park.
A therapy kite that can be torn apart at Velcro seams.
A bar designed to break over your knee.
How to cope with yard work being more fun than flying that day. And many many more.... :D

In all seriousness, don't hook in with those conditions. IMHO

Windstruck - 2-4-2016 at 07:23 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 3shot  
Yes mooms. You are officially in the janky wind club. Such as I and many others. Your free club benefits packet should be on its way. Included in this special members only packet are, but not limited to:
New curse words to use.
Ear plugs for the ladys and kiddos at the park.
A therapy kite that can be torn apart at Velcro seams.
A bar designed to break over your knee.
How to cope with yard work being more fun than flying that day. And many many more.... :D

In all seriousness, don't hook in with those conditions. IMHO


As a (reluctant) member of this club as well I've come to find great use of each kit item! Spencer (Soliver) is the self-appointed president so please bug him if your kit doesn't arrive within a fortnight. :D

In full agreement with 3-shot here. I was hooked in to a FB kite in my buggy last summer (in this case an 8.5m NS3) and a gust at just the wrong moment caused me to slam my buggy into a soccer goal post. I displaced the goal posts about 6-8 feet and got dragged down an embankment. Got pretty bloodied on that one, but it could have been a lot worse since my buggy hit the goal not me.

Two recommendations for jank. Don't strop in (as mentioned) or start investing in DP kites as well as you can more readily scrub power by letting out the bar at critical moments.

Bladerunner - 2-4-2016 at 07:44 PM

The Jankers have it right!

Sorry, I forget sometimes how lucky we are to have clean wind.
I really should have put more consideration into the winds you are working with. I unhook by nature when dealing with Jank. It's just easier and safer that way. You just may want to fly unhooked until you find some cleaner winds?

I forget exactly where you live?

m00ms - 3-4-2016 at 09:39 AM

oops so i am a member of janky wind!! i will have to try get down coast few times then as i did go there with my 1.8 symphony 2 line and wind was super clean.

so keep the harness for clean non janky wind conditions which i am grateful on that tip so thanks for that.cant see me using it on the 5.5 bullet for a fair while even with clean wind!

sorry to hear about your incident windstruck but good to hear it didnt put you off at all.

lucky bladerunner with clean wind,i live in south uk just under london almost splat bang in the middle!!

Bladerunner - 3-4-2016 at 11:10 AM

This guy seems to have found a great spot near London?
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=31869

I drive 45 minutes - 8 hours to get to clean wind. 2 - 5 hours in the winter for clean wind and snow.

It is far better to drive 4 hours for a good clean wind 2 hour session that to fight Janky wind close to home!

m00ms - 3-4-2016 at 12:34 PM

thanks for the video link and that beach is about 2-2.5 hours away from me and its near where i want to go when i do a buggy lesson.

i am fully with you on travelling to get some clean wind but sadly time does not always allow and being new to this sport i never looked at wind in same way i do now so its all learning i guess.

thanks as always for all your help and time spent helping me so far.

over here in the uk the weather is turning warmer and less winter so hopefully wind will settle a bit.....i can but hope :)

m00ms - 6-4-2016 at 11:50 AM

hey all i will keep harness for non janky wind days but thinking about it the other day i flew my 2m whilst hooked in but i had kite killers on at same time!!.... surely thats not right as if had left kite go to killers (not that i have so far!) then brakes would of been on killers and harness would of been on power lines .

i have read on here about kite killers and it seams to be a mix opinion

abkayak - 6-4-2016 at 12:51 PM

if you let go and werent wearing kite killers youd still be hooked in anyway...either way you gotta get unhooked first
i found kk w/ a harness would at some pt be a pblm getting tangled up at the most inopportune times...lotta laughs

ssayre - 6-4-2016 at 02:07 PM

They actually make kites that come assembled with a quick release and a spot to attach a leash and generally afford enough time to activate the release and are made to fit on a standard spreader hook with no additional accessories and no kite killers to worry about.

They are called depowers :evil:

no pulley block, no wichards, no multiple types of roller wheel spreader bars. Just simple.

Windstruck - 6-4-2016 at 02:48 PM

Quote:
Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  


They are called depowers :evil:



:lol::lol::lol:

Bladerunner - 6-4-2016 at 03:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by m00ms  
hey all i will keep harness for non janky wind days but thinking about it the other day i flew my 2m whilst hooked in but i had kite killers on at same time!!.... surely thats not right as if had left kite go to killers (not that i have so far!) then brakes would of been on killers and harness would of been on power lines .

i have read on here about kite killers and it seams to be a mix opinion


You are correct. Kite killers are useless while hooked in. People who get too used to killers can make exactly that mistake and let go hooked in. THIS is why I talked about getting used to hooking and unhooking by reflex memory. Also why I warned that unhooking under a big load can be almost impossible. ( for a little twerp like me at least ) . Pulling in and down to release is really hard when overpowered. Especially with a big kite and you are being tea bagged.

To get around this people use a complicated pulley and QR combination.

The best thing to do IMHO ( besides going depower ) is to avoid hooking in when you are pushing it and or overpowered using FB kites.
Kite killers have their own set of problems. There is a link to a very good old post about this in PrussiS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s recent thread. Once again, using them in overpowered situations can turn bad.

AFTER CHOOSING AN APPROPRIATE LOCATION learning to control your kite in an emergency is always what you want to learn.

If you can't get the kite to and down the edge then letting go of one handle is an emergency option. That and letting go completely should be OK if your location allows room down wind. The price may be messed up lines or damage to the kite but both are less important than staying alive.





ssayre - 6-4-2016 at 03:36 PM



bladerunner quote "Especially with a big kite and you are being tea bagged. "



Being tea bagged is no fun. just ask jared from subway now that he's in prison.

I'll be here all week folks :)

Bladerunner - 6-4-2016 at 03:42 PM

Tea Hee !

Didn't think of it that way. They told me I was being " tea bagged " after I was sent down wind hooked in with kite stuck in a death loop.

:bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy:

Windstruck - 6-4-2016 at 04:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  


bladerunner quote "Especially with a big kite and you are being tea bagged. "



Being tea bagged is no fun. just ask jared from subway now that he's in prison.

I'll be here all week folks :)


Are we ever going to learn how to post quotes? Hmmmm? :moon:

ssayre - 6-4-2016 at 04:20 PM

sometimes it works out for me sometimes it doesn't :spin:

m00ms - 9-4-2016 at 09:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner  
Quote: Originally posted by m00ms  
hey all i will keep harness for non janky wind days but thinking about it the other day i flew my 2m whilst hooked in but i had kite killers on at same time!!.... surely thats not right as if had left kite go to killers (not that i have so far!) then brakes would of been on killers and harness would of been on power lines .

i have read on here about kite killers and it seams to be a mix opinion


You are correct. Kite killers are useless while hooked in. People who get too used to killers can make exactly that mistake and let go hooked in. THIS is why I talked about getting used to hooking and unhooking by reflex memory. Also why I warned that unhooking under a big load can be almost impossible. ( for a little twerp like me at least ) . Pulling in and down to release is really hard when overpowered. Especially with a big kite and you are being tea bagged.

To get around this people use a complicated pulley and QR combination.

The best thing to do IMHO ( besides going depower ) is to avoid hooking in when you are pushing it and or overpowered using FB kites.
Kite killers have their own set of problems. There is a link to a very good old post about this in PrussiS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s recent thread. Once again, using them in overpowered situations can turn bad.

AFTER CHOOSING AN APPROPRIATE LOCATION learning to control your kite in an emergency is always what you want to learn.

If you can't get the kite to and down the edge then letting go of one handle is an emergency option. That and letting go completely should be OK if your location allows room down wind. The price may be messed up lines or damage to the kite but both are less important than staying alive.










i have been using killers so far and have only used to try them out,i am getting a lot confident so i might stop using killers,i will try your let go off one handle bladerunner next time i am out.

i have had some over power moments in my janky winds which have taken me by surprise but i have managed to fly out off the power,also getting better at feeling my gusts coming and flying to edge and wait till gone.

i had a little time today so i popped out but gave up as winds were awful! weather in general here in uk is so chop and change currently but i so long to fly in some clean wind

Bladerunner - 9-4-2016 at 10:08 AM

Getting a sense for what is coming wind wise and knowing to get to the edge ( and down to one side ) is a HUGE step forward!

With what you are learning you will be shocked at how good you really are when you get some clean wind to work with! :cool:

Letting one handle go usually ends up with a real line mess and potential damage to your kite. ( not likely damage in a controlled situation ) If you try it do so when you have time to untangle things.

m00ms - 9-4-2016 at 10:34 AM

thanks for that bladerunner,i do feel like i am learning a lot but in a really frustrating way! it certainly will be nice to fly in some clean wind and i am sure and hope you are right when that time comes!

i might just try the one handle drop in light winds to get muscle memory going for if i ever get caught out then and thanks for pointing out the damage side as certainly do not want to damage my kites unnecessarily.

i hope you are getting your own flying and buggy time in ?

Bladerunner - 9-4-2016 at 10:52 AM

Quote: Originally posted by m00ms  
thanks for that bladerunner,i do feel like i am learning a lot but in a really frustrating way! it certainly will be nice to fly in some clean wind and i am sure and hope you are right when that time comes!

i might just try the one handle drop in light winds to get muscle memory going for if i ever get caught out then and thanks for pointing out the damage side as certainly do not want to damage my kites unnecessarily.

i hope you are getting your own flying and buggy time in ?


:thumbup: Headed out soon. The whole weekend looks good!
Got out last weekend for the 1st buggy run since Fall SOBB. :wee:

m00ms - 9-4-2016 at 10:58 AM

thats good to hear your out shortly and i hope you have a great time as i am sure you will:)

thanks again for all your help,advice and tips so far,i do have another question but i will keep that for another time as i do not want to disturb your time.

m00ms - 10-4-2016 at 03:06 AM

hey bladerunner i hope you had great day yesterday and have another lined up for today?

as mentioned i do want to go do a buggy lesson at some point this year but while i am flying static is there anything i can do or learn which will help when i do get to sit in a buggy?

reading forecast today it looks great,10mph this morning building up to 17mph with no gusts until gusty later.sadly thou sitting here drinking tea watching trees movement you get nice firm tree movement for couple of minutes then nothing at all!!!!

Bladerunner - 10-4-2016 at 05:41 PM

OK session yesterday. My local park is still a bit muddy.

Real nice session today. Wind was low but the direction that we can run the long way through the park. the 18 meter Phantom was the perfect weapon! I love a big kite day with steady winds! :D

Work on doing the Down Turns and big long power stroke through the window. A VERY valuable method for turning in the buggy with low winds down the road.

Get used to sitting down on your butt while controlling the kite. Once on your butt, if the wind is strong enough, use the power from diving the kite to stand up. With the kite at zenith rock it slightly in one direction. Then dive it the other direction into the center of the window and across for a power boost. THAT is sort of the motions you go through to get going in the buggy.

If you are energetic combine the kite dive lifting you to your feet with running a short way across wind. You will hopefully learn how to bring the kite back up KEEPING TENSION ON THE FRONT LINES with this excessive.

m00ms - 12-4-2016 at 09:11 AM

sounds like you had a great time bladerunner but 18 metre...gulp!! i really can not imagine what 18m must be like,i am shocked and amazed by my 5.5 bullet in single figure winds!!

thanks for the tips for me to try whilst flying static,i seam to stand flying my 2m and sit when do so with 4m/5.5m.i have been using power on way across window to get up from sitting but will give it a go on a dive.

Bladerunner - 12-4-2016 at 10:15 AM

We were all there at one point!

Your post takes me back to the 1st time I took my 4.5m Bullet out. I was SO SCARED of that kite. I remember driving there with hair standing up on my arms. I wasn't sure if I was super excited or scared ! Whatever it was, I loved the rush!

Don't be too impressed by 18m. The kite is an Arc style of kite and it's " projected area " is much less than 18m. That kite in steady low winds is a gentle giant. I actually feel very safe under it in those conditions. It all changes when you get in motion. I needed every bit of the sail to keep moving with a buggy.

Windstruck - 12-4-2016 at 02:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner  
We were all there at one point!

Your post takes me back to the 1st time I took my 4.5m Bullet out. I was SO SCARED of that kite. I remember driving there with hair standing up on my arms. I wasn't sure if I was super excited or scared ! Whatever it was, I loved the rush!

Don't be too impressed by 18m. The kite is an Arc style of kite and it's " projected area " is much less than 18m. That kite in steady low winds is a gentle giant. I actually feel very safe under it in those conditions. It all changes when you get in motion. I needed every bit of the sail to keep moving with a buggy.


MOOms - What is said here at the end is the important "aha" moment that you just haven't had yet (emphasis on yet). Everything changes with motion. The amount of force you absorb and transfer into motion is impressive; was higher forces than you think is happening when flying static. I went for about five years Prism kites and rally enjoyed the workout it took to resist the forces with my seat meat anchored to the ground and my heels dug in to the grass. I still remember the marketing blurb on the 5m Prism: "stump pulling power". There were days when it felt like that.

Now go out and get a buggy and find out what we are talking about! :cool2:

m00ms - 13-4-2016 at 11:58 AM

i am sure that the 18m is impressive to watch.i flew my 5.5 bullet the other day and walkers going by were saying wow look at size of it!

i must admit first time i flew the bullet my first thought was "sod that,stick it back on ebay!" now having flown it few times i do like it in a very cautious way as i am sure that could really bite you if got wrong!

so far out of my three 4 lines i think i like the beamer 4m most.i like its slower speed and the other week i was sitting on floor leaning back trying to get feet to grip wet grass and pulling it good and hard.great fun!

yes windstruck i do want to try buggy soon,i have found a beach which is a couple of hours away that does it there with lessons.so do bit more tidying up of my flying then get down there for a go which i am sure will lead to MANY questions!

m00ms - 24-4-2016 at 08:43 AM

hi all,

i have a week work shut down at end of may so i decided to go for a buggy lesson at some point on the time off.when i book lesson i might go down day before and do some flying in hopefully cleaner winds than my current conditions.

i have been flying in janky winds (again!) and feel a lot more comfortable and in control now.i was flying my 4m beamer in the strong gusts and felt in control and was playing with power on the down strokes and across window as suggested by bladerunner (many thanks) and just in general was happy with my control and i will get more time in before buggy lesson.

i hope everyone is getting out enjoying and i am very thankful for everyones help and i look forward to asking questions on a moving front soon!

3shot - 24-4-2016 at 04:52 PM

You will be surprised how the hard work of janky wind management pays off once you hit clean wind!

Anthonyshopguy - 24-4-2016 at 10:42 PM

Hope your session is as good as my first one. I was able to attend IBX this year and all the great people there helped to make it an awesome event for me and everybody else. I just read through all the posts on your learning curve and can't wait to hear about your first bugging experience. Good luck and good winds;)

Anthonyshopguy - 24-4-2016 at 10:49 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
Quote: Originally posted by Kokopelli Kiter  
Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
remember with no wind, all kites have the same power
Not true.

https://vimeo.com/38891773


I knew I would get called out on that.


I would like to see more about flying with no wind. Welding god sure makes it look easy. I finally had a good green field to try it in the other day and what do you think? Did anything like that video happen. NO. Got to keep on figuring it all out I quess.

Windstruck - 25-4-2016 at 05:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Anthonyshopguy  
I was able to attend IBX this year


Dang Anthony, I was there too (Tuesday-Thursday). Sorry we didn't meet up. I most certainly plan on going next year as well.

m00ms - 26-4-2016 at 11:19 AM

thanks 3shot,yes i really can not wait for some clean wind to play with!!

hi Anthonyshopguy and it sure has been a learning curve for me this year as at christmas i didnt even own a kite and had only ever flown single line kites as a kid so i am very happy and very grateful for everyones help on this forum.

i did read up on the IBX event which looks amazing,just wish there was or is a similar event over here in the uk.

um buggy time! i threw a cheeky bid on ebay for a peter lynn competition buggy the other day which was accepted so i now have a really clean buggy!!

big question is do i still do a lesson or do self teach option?

kites i own are version 6 hq beamers 2m&4m and a flexifoil bullet 5.5m,guessing my 2m is too small and my 5.5m is to big to learn on which just leaves my 4m beamer,would it be worth me getting a 3m beamer?

abkayak - 26-4-2016 at 01:35 PM

you should buy a 3m just because you know you want to and youll probably go nutz if you dont (i told you in Dec)
boy your gonna like the beach, clean winds salt air...i say figure it out on your own its not water thats a different story
might take a little extra time but put the $$$ to the 3m
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