General Flysurfer Peak kite discussion

Quote: Originally posted by 3shot

Are these still Peak 2 Steve??

Yes. You can witness the "ground kiss" I described right in the beginning of this video (red 4m P2). I have footage of the other more violent incident that occurred with my blue 9m P2, but this is a family show and we don't need to be posting that sort of kite-carnage here. :evil:

http://youtu.be/QFFIeKbl8UI

Wow so people are still attacking my post about the peak 2 4m huh, Ok I'm going to keep it real and this will be my last post on the peaks. I lost 300 dollars on the resale of this kite and frankly I'm a little pissed about it. Honestly I read a review on the kite and was under the impression that it was a really great kite and its not. The kite flies like crap - it depowers horribly by folding its wing tips on it self only to power up in strong gusty winds, bar pressure is high and the vibrating back lines are annoying along with the off and on power delivery sucks. Those who say this kite (4M peak ) is great are lying to themselves and others and its a shame because people who buy this kite as a high wind will be disappointed . It would be nice if others would also stop attacking peoples honest opinion of a kite on the forum. Originally when I posted my review of the kite I was quoted as spreading misinformation and that's not right in my opinion. I have been flying kites for more years than most people on this forum and know a good kite when I fly one. I enjoy reading peoples opinion on a kite and don't think that people should attack others honest experience. And to ssayre I dint buy the kite expecting apples or oranges or whatever . I bought the kite as a high wind kite after reading a review right here on this forum and also from flysurfer about its features only later to realize that the negatives of the kite far outweigh the positives. Ok end of my rant.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Quote: aha the footage has mysteriously disappeared. we need to get a good private eye on this case. or may be I will look up some of my own footage of the 4m's bad behavior to post when I have time. In all fairness I flew the 6m and it flew ok. The problem is brutally simple. You bought an apple hoping it would taste like an orange. Flysurfer advertised this kite as an easy introduction to power kiting for beginners and that's it's a touring kite that will pack small and handle back country gusts. It does all that and does it well. It's not the apple's fault it doesn't taste like an orange, but you can do all sorts of stuff with it like cider, apple sauce etc... So why do I care? Well this style of kite possesses qualities that I prefer for my conditions. I'm guessing here, but I think you bought it hoping it would possess many of the same qualities of your "normal" kites but for few dollars less (costs less than 6m access I think). When it didn't taste like an orange you didn't like it. If your going to experiment with kite types, you have to be prepared for the possibility your not going to like it. If we all preferred the same kite, it would be a pretty boring place around here. ps. the peak is the most super fantastic kite the world has ever known :moon:

"Wow so people are still attacking my post about the peak 2 4m huh"

No, the post you quoted me on is over a month old. It was during the last discussion / argument in the access review thread. I quoted you there and posted here so the discussion would be in the appropriate thread, but you hadn't noticed until now.



Your entitled to your opinion, but the way you have expressed it, makes it sound like you know more about kiting than anyone else who owns or has reviewed this kite and does not share your opinion. I would respectfully disagree with that.

Quote: Originally posted by windrider1

Wow so people are still attacking my post about the peak 2 4m huh, Ok I'm going to keep it real and this will be my last post on the peaks. I lost 300 dollars on the resale of this kite and frankly I'm a little pissed about it. Honestly I read a review on the kite and was under the impression that it was a really great kite and its not. The kite flies like crap - it depowers horribly by folding its wing tips on it self only to power up in strong gusty winds, bar pressure is high and the vibrating back lines are annoying along with the off and on power delivery sucks. Those who say this kite (4M peak ) is great are lying to themselves and others and its a shame because people who buy this kite as a high wind will be disappointed . It would be nice if others would also stop attacking peoples honest opinion of a kite on the forum. Originally when I posted my review of the kite I was quoted as spreading misinformation and that's not right in my opinion. I have been flying kites for more years than most people on this forum and know a good kite when I fly one. I enjoy reading peoples opinion on a kite and don't think that people should attack others honest experience. And to ssayre I dint buy the kite expecting apples or oranges or whatever . I bought the kite as a high wind kite after reading a review right here on this forum and also from flysurfer about its features only later to realize that the negatives of the kite far outweigh the positives. Ok end of my rant. Quote: Originally posted by ssayre   Quote: aha the footage has mysteriously disappeared. we need to get a good private eye on this case. or may be I will look up some of my own footage of the 4m's bad behavior to post when I have time. In all fairness I flew the 6m and it flew ok. The problem is brutally simple. You bought an apple hoping it would taste like an orange. Flysurfer advertised this kite as an easy introduction to power kiting for beginners and that's it's a touring kite that will pack small and handle back country gusts. It does all that and does it well. It's not the apple's fault it doesn't taste like an orange, but you can do all sorts of stuff with it like cider, apple sauce etc... So why do I care? Well this style of kite possesses qualities that I prefer for my conditions. I'm guessing here, but I think you bought it hoping it would possess many of the same qualities of your "normal" kites but for few dollars less (costs less than 6m access I think). When it didn't taste like an orange you didn't like it. If your going to experiment with kite types, you have to be prepared for the possibility your not going to like it. If we all preferred the same kite, it would be a pretty boring place around here. ps. the peak is the most super fantastic kite the world has ever known :moon:

Windrider - I'm really sorry you didn't end up liking the 4m P2. I know I've had some copy in various threads supportive of this and the other P2s (which has been my experience). I would take contest with you about the suitability of this kite as a high wind kite. I've got two videos of this kite in high wind conditions, one with clean wind and one with really janky wind. Neither are highly edited. I am certainly not saying this is the best possible high wind kite. In fact, based off of a recently published head to head of the Ozone Access and the Flysurfer Peak-2 under high wind conditions ( http://www.hardwaterkiter.com/kite-and-gear-reviews/ozone-ac... ) I actually bought a 6m Access from Chris. I hope to use both this 6m Access and the 4m P2 snowkiting this winter when it is blowing hard. For me, the whole single skin thing is really about low wind performance and small and light packing. It could well be that single skin kites like the P2 are not the best high speed tools of choice, but I too would take contest that it is not a good kite in its own right.

Quote: Originally posted by 3shot

Well if there is anyone out here not liking their 4m Peak2, I'll give it a kind, and loving home.

Quote: Originally posted by 3shot

Well if there is anyone out here not liking their 4m Peak2, I'll give it a kind, and loving home.

Take a number Jason. That list is long and distinguished, just like my....

Quote: Originally posted by John Holgate

Just put in my first session with the big cheesburger wrapper....er, I mean the Peak 2 - finished in the dark after a couple hours in the paddock.  With a big smile on my face....which is probably THE most important thing.  There are some really nice features - particularly the bar which is top notch.  It has a nice wide double opening - with the power lines running smoothly through it regardless of how much you turn it.  There is a fair bit of bar pressure once the kite starts to pull - but the little stopper ball that you can slide down the line to take the pressure off the bar is genius.  Every kite should have one of those.  Kite launched and landed easily and didn't misbehave in the two hours of going around in the paddock.  Started off in probably 12 knots and the 6m makes a shirt load of power pulling me uphill and into the wind with ease.  Even when the wind died to around 6 - 8 knots I was surprised by the ease of which the kite can still park and ride producing lots of power from the apparent wind.  Excellent depower.  It still gets all 'flappy' when you let the bar out and when turning, one of the corners of the kite flaps around a bit but pull the bar in and everything goes taught.  Once or twice I had too much bar out and the edges of the kite folded in towards the center and it took a little while to properly re-inflate the kite but that didn't seem to happen later in the session as I got used to handling it. Seems to have quite good upwind ability too.  I was originally thinking the 6m should be good from 12 - 20 knots but after seeing how light the wind got today, I would say the low end would be more like 6 knots or thereabouts. All in all, a very satisfying two hour session in the paddock (which is only 150m or so on it's longest edge so by the time you start doing 30kph, the fence is coming up fast).  In fact, one of my most satisfying sessions at home.

John - makes my day to hear that you enjoyed your first session with your P2! Nice stuff. Interesting that you thought of the stopper ball as a lock of sorts to take the pressure off the bar. I agree that it is a great little ball, but I for one always thought of it as a "range limiter" of sorts should you want to decrease the amount of DP throw to the bar. Interesting. I'll have to experiment with it with your line of thinking.

What you described was the much discussed "tip tuck" when the edges folded in. As you may well come to find, it seems to happen (in my hands) in two settings; first, a pilot error of sorts when you allow the kite to get deflated, often in a turn in lighter winds (sounds like what happened to you); and, second, when the kite is in very powerful winds for its size, particularly during take off. I'm convinced that the first is mostly pilot error (mine) and to an extent the second scenario is too, but to a lesser extent. Both can usually be remedied by pumping the bar and signing the kite for a moment. As you gain more experience with the somewhat unique flying characteristics of the P2s tip tucks will get less and less frequent; you just intuitively learn to avoid them. Your kite skill far exceeds mine so I have no doubt you will master the P2 in no time.

The big cheeseburger wrapper, that's a crack up!

Cheers Steve Yeah, I think the stopper ball is definitely a 'cruise control'. I only got to use it fleetingly in the paddock but on the beach or a longer run it will be the best thing since sliced bread allowing me to set the bar where I want it and then fly with one hand and wave the camera bout with the other regardless of bar pressure. If I wasn't having so much fun with the cheesburger wrapper, I would've put the 5m Longstar up for some comparison.

The P2 seems to combine the light wind ability of the NS2 with a more functional depower and decent upwind performance in one package. A bit quirky for sure but it's performance left me really impressed. And if the 6m can generate that sort of power in 8 - 10 knots, sheesh, what does the 12m do?? I think the 4m will be next.....

Quote: Originally posted by John Holgate

The P2 seems to combine the light wind ability of the NS2 with a more functional depower and decent upwind performance in one package. A bit quirky for sure but it's performance left me really impressed. And if the 6m can generate that sort of power in 8 - 10 knots, sheesh, what does the 12m do?? I think the 4m will be next.....

I couldn't agree more. The peak takes what we like on the nasa stars and excels with depower and performance. Stopper ball sounds nice although I doubt I would be able to use it much in my wind. Some days I'm forced to kite a wind range that can vary from 7 mph to low 20's. Peak really comes in handy on those days.

Quote: Originally posted by John Holgate

I think the stopper ball is definitely a 'cruise control'. I only got to use it fleetingly in the paddock but on the beach or a longer run it will be the best thing since sliced bread allowing me to set the bar where I want it and then fly with one hand.....

Alrightythen! This reinforces my previous comment about Steffen using a stopper ball instead of his new fangled thingy for the 5-line LongStar bar. The pressure on the Born bar is higher than the LS bar to be sure, so it would likely need to be larger, stouter, etc. to withstand the force. Maybe he tried things along this line but abandoned this solution due to the pressure just being too great.

I'll try the ball as a cruise control stopper next time I'm in the right conditions. If we get a lot more snow I could do this here during some big ranging snowkiting sessions. Otherwise, I'll try it at Ivanpah at IBX in March. Whupp!

Cheers guys. Demonknight - great info about the 12P2 v Speed 3. 3shot - no video or piccies yet but I might get the right wind conditions this evening with a bit of luck.

Quote: Originally posted by 3shot

Peak 1. Keep calm and Popeye on!!

We are among the original peak og's. I wouldn't even know how to launch a peak 6 meter that wasn't pink

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Quote: Originally posted by 3shot   Peak 1. Keep calm and Popeye on!! We are among the original peak og's. I wouldn't even know how to launch a peak 6 meter that wasn't pink

Amen. I wouldn't even know how to fly a kite if I didn't have to Popeye arm it all day.....

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

Glad to hear you like the Peaks John. :D As John mentioned the stopper's primary purpose is to set the cruise control. It's especially helpful on the Peak where the optimal powered point of the sheeting is in pretty close and a PITA to actively hold for long duration. So you can set the power just on the edge of the flutter point in the wing. But as Steve mentioned it can also be used in conjunction with the clam cleat trim to adjust the power/depow range on the kite on the fly. The downside of the stopper is it has near zero "push through" and if you are using it and get hit by a gust you cannot disengage the stopper and push the bar out fast enough to avoid getting OP'd. Locally we rarely get to use the stopper for any length of time. When we do, we tend to keep a hand centered on the bar and the stopper. With practice you learn to slide you fingers quickly between the bar and stopper and push or pull the stopper as needed on the fly and with relative swiftness.

Most excellent! I got a quick Snowkiting session in yesterday with my 12m P2 and fiddled with the stopper ball some. I was on some athletic fields behind a school so I didn't have long to fly before turning, but nonetheless I was able to appreciate how the stopper ball could be used as described. I completely see how having the ball choked in as a stopper could lead to an overpower situation in the right (wrong?) conditions.

I actually had a slightly different problem yesterday. I was dealing with light winds and relative underpower much of the time. I backstalled the kite to the ground twice before I could fiddle the ball back out. Agreed that this could become a smoother action over time. Slightly harder in large mitts being worn against the cold. Had I not had the stopper in I would have simply pushed the bar all the way out to get the kite to rise. It wouldn't have pulled me, but at least it wouldn't have been on the ground.

It's all good, and I'm glad these kites have this feature. Once out in some wide open spaces (like Ivanpah! :D ) this will be a dandy feature!

Quote: Originally posted by Cheddarhead

Gotta love the fact that no snow or sand will ever get in your kite :D

Gotta say, I've been digging the single skins in the snow for precisely that reason. Pile 'em high with snow to secure them while you play out your lines and off you go, clean as a whistle! :karate:

Quote: Originally posted by robinsonpr

Hey guys I want to add a crossover to the rear lines of both my peaks, to make it easier to reverse land with one hand and also to keep it down when staked. I know some of you have already done this, how did you go about it? Not sure what to use (webbing, dyneema?). And how long, just a little longer than the bar? Thanks for any tips!

I installed a cross over strap on all four of my P2s and strongly recommend it. I got my straps from Chris (fewd) at Hardwater which is where I got my P2s. Nothing magical about his straps of course; I suspect you could find something local in the UK.

As for installation, I disconnected the lines from the bridles and threaded the straps over the brake lines. Yes, I know I could have fiddled with the connections under the foam rolls but it was just simpler to go from the other end. You can use a combination of simple overhand knots and the little plastic balls to position the cross over strap at the desired distance from the bar. That took a little launching, testing, landing, and fiddling for me to get the distance from the bar where I wanted it. Good luck!

Here's a picture:


[img][/img]

Quote: Originally posted by John Holgate

It's possible for it to slide up the lines but so far it's stayed put.

I had that problem too at first and the strap did slide up my lines. Ended up nestling the cross strap between the balls and a simple overhand knot I formed on each bar pigtail. Yes, I know that changed the length of the brake lines just a tad, but it didn't seem to affect kite performance so what the heck...

Steve, take a look at the stall handle on your Access. That is how we install them on the Peaks.

I need to post some instructions on the site.

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

Steve, take a look at the stall handle on your Access. That is how we install them on the Peaks. I need to post some instructions on the site.

Will do. Still haven't had the chance to use the Access under moving conditions. Winds have been such around here that I used the 12m P2 or 12.5m NS3. There were some days a few weeks ago that might have been right but I was trying something different those days. In retrospect I should have pulled the Access out just before Christmas. Have to wait for the next big Front to push through.

Little Stopper Ball

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Got a chance to snowkite in a wide open space today and had my 12m P2 up. Following the fine lead of Mr. Holgate, I experimented with choking down the bar with the little stopper ball. As he would say, BLOODY BRILLIANT! Takes all the pressure off of having to hold the bar in on long hauls, leaving you to focus on fighting the force of the kite and really angulate against the kite and rip. You need to remember to release it before making your turn though, since if you are like me, you want to use the DP around the corner to scrub speed. Really, really nice feature!

Sweet. I read about your intentional jumping on the other thread. Gives me a new goal

Does your wife like drying kites out as much as mine does? They don't feel wet when you pack them up, but once you bring inside they are half soaked.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck   Got a chance to snowkite in a wide open space today and had my 12m P2 up. Following the fine lead of Mr. Holgate, I experimented with choking down the bar with the little stopper ball. As he would say, BLOODY BRILLIANT! Takes all the pressure off of having to hold the bar in on long hauls, leaving you to focus on fighting the force of the kite and really angulate against the kite and rip. You need to remember to release it before making your turn though, since if you are like me, you want to use the DP around the corner to scrub speed. Really, really nice feature! Sweet. I read about your intentional jumping on the other thread. Gives me a new goal Does your wife like drying kites out as much as mine does? They don't feel wet when you pack them up, but once you bring inside they are half soaked.

I have certainly brought home a few kites this winter with stray bits of snow in them and have had to dry them out. Haven't pulled off that trick though (living room drying). As I've mentioned in other threads at other times, I'm on my second and final marriage and have no intention of being single again. :karate:

Truth be told, I've often landed my kites in the snow, wound my lines, done a crude fold up and put the kite bundle into the back of my rig. The following day I've spread it out on the driveway and then folded it up properly. This has been with my Peaks. The NS3s are so easy to pack up that I put them fully away in their stuff sacks right in the field. My Peaks though (particularly Session Saver; 12m) is so much to handle out in the wind that my pack up becomes more of a M.A.S.H. unit.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck   Got a chance to snowkite in a wide open space today and had my 12m P2 up. Following the fine lead of Mr. Holgate, I experimented with choking down the bar with the little stopper ball. As he would say, BLOODY BRILLIANT! Takes all the pressure off of having to hold the bar in on long hauls, leaving you to focus on fighting the force of the kite and really angulate against the kite and rip. You need to remember to release it before making your turn though, since if you are like me, you want to use the DP around the corner to scrub speed. Really, really nice feature! Sweet. I read about your intentional jumping on the other thread. Gives me a new goal Does your wife like drying kites out as much as mine does? They don't feel wet when you pack them up, but once you bring inside they are half soaked.

Sigh..... Man I want a.9m:sniff:

Quote: Originally posted by TEDWESLEY

Jason go Green man go Green!

I really did try to win the powerball..

I've recently realized why FS has set exact limits for the maximum wind speed for the Peak2: When used (way) overpowered, the hefty fluttering will wear out the coating.

Last winter I used a 6m and 12m Peak2 extensively. The 6m sometimes to get back home in situations where I probably shouldn't be kiting at all, and the kite ended up with several patches where the coating delaminated. Primarily at the trailing edge but also a bit along stitches from Z to B.

The 12m only got tiny signs of delamination, but I usually packed down the 12m and launched the 6m as soon as the wind picked up.

I don't feel like the performance of the 6m changed however. This could be because any change happened gradually over a long time, or it could be because there's no delamination around the A lines which takes most of the pull. It would be interesting to compare with a brand new 6m to see if there's a noticable difference, but I really think it's only a visual change. It might affect the warranty though, but if FS doesn't want people to fly it above their wind speed limits, they shouldn't have made the depower so good...

my peak 1 6m coating was / is seriously delaminated before I even got it and it has always flown great. I've got a black roll of sail tape that I've used to reinforce areas that were getting almost worn through. Feyd, do you use ripstop nylon tape or dacron tape? I ordered the nylon tape but wasn't sure which one is recommended.

on the p1 9m, I noticed a piece of the bright orange mono filament hanging out the trailing edge when I was on the buggy. It fell out and I kept going. I didn't notice any performance issues. Then, when I got home and examined the kite, I noticed I had lost 2 others on the trailing edge from previous sessions I've bought some smooth round trimmer string to replace, but I might hold off and see how many I can lose before I can tell a difference

I like Feyd's Cadillac / Jeep comparison. Whether I bash them on asphalt, snow, or grass, they still report for duty the next time out.

I know. Blah static pics. I mainly went out this eve to add my reconfigured landing/anchor strap. Works perfect now! Besides, our Flysurfer thread was sinking to the bottom and needed a bump .There was baseball and soccer practice tonight, so I had to take what I could get. Buggy is pretty much done at my local fields because of sports now. Except for Sundays. Then I have to hope the wind gods listen for WSW prayers. Usually not answered lol. Always a good wife that knows I wont crash her for pics :D.







Ahhhh.... Peak 1s :D:D:D:evil:

A couple pics riding my 12m Peak2 on a LOW wind day at the Mille lacs Lake kite crossing event. Most of us were grounded on Saturday due to no wind, but my Peak with 5m extensions was just enough to get going for some slow cruising. They had to postpone the race to the next day. One day out of three with no wind isn't too bad. Weather was fantastic for March 5th. That kite is a definite day saver!

Quote: Originally posted by 3shot

I must say, I dig the new multi color scheme too Steve.

It's okay I guess. I don't know though, if it's not pink or blue I'm not sure I could fly it :D

I do think the big green 12m would grow on me . Someday the 12 will be mine.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

I do think the big green 12m would grow on me . Someday the 12 will be mine.

Every man needs a dream! Session Saver remains the all time favorite kite in my quiver. Just sayin...

Peak2 on handles

What length handles? Around 16-18 work decent. I found I had to tighten the brake lines up a fair amount for it to be responsive. Glad you got to try it out. Actually, I've never flown long lines on handles. Only 5m lines. Been wanting to try it though.

Tuning the set up is key. If you have the short 12" ish handles, longer handles would be better. Fun stuff.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

What length handles? Around 16-18 work decent. I found I had to tighten the brake lines up a fair amount for it to be responsive. Glad you got to try it out. Actually, I've never flown long lines on handles. Only 5m lines. Been wanting to try it though. Tuning the set up is key. If you have the short 12" ish handles, longer handles would be better. Fun stuff.

Yup, about 12". Thinking about getting the long ones and stringing them with 5m lines. Good tip.

Just went to his site. Looks like PL has updated the twister or at least the graphics!! Looks cool. I've always had a soft spot for that kite.

Maybe Mike was just tired of selling so many kites so he told us all he was going out of business. Dang pesky customers. I feel his pain

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Got my 6m P2 out on 5m lines today flown off of PL "Long" handles. The longer handles made all the difference in the word. Top to bottom balance felt just right with the brake lines on the final (longest) pigtail knot and my hands a few inches below the top pigtails, not one finger over the top pigtails as would normally feel right with a FB kite. I think this will be a fun way to fly the Peaks! Once the fields dry out around my way I think I'll give this set up a whirl with my Wheels of Doom skates! Thanks to ssayre for motivating me to try the Peaks this way. Fun. :D

Nice! It's another fun way to fly for sure. Riding toeside on a board is a little challenging for me on handles but you won't have that problem. Hopefully the new big wheels work well. On grass, you might have to hang on to a fair amount of power at times. I've only used the handles on asphalt where resistance is light.

Crashed in a tree - or three ...

In the gusts on a wet and slippery field today, I lost control.



What a way to end todays session Hopefully it's not the end of the kite, but I had to climb the tree by the left wingtip almost to the top and cut all bridles I could reach, then I could pull it off on the right hand side, didn't damage too much tree.



Poor tree. Crappy #@%$#!ty tree with super-gnarly small branches growing in every direction. Kite got really well stuck really fast, couldn't pull it down no way. I had to go climbing and cutting lines first, which was quite dangerous and really exhaustive. Poor tree.

But the tree lives on, I'll just have to see with the kite, if there's many rifts or not. If I should send it to Flysurfer for a full refitting of bridles (costly much?).

I love this beautiful blue baby do-everything super wind-machine (got 6m extensions for 27m lines). We've been on skis, in buggies and on ATB. Just love it too bits ('cept for those days where the tangle-factor becomes just too much). Hopefully it will have a life after this too. I haven't dared look at it yet, just rolled into a ball and stuffed into bag.

I've been thinking much about getting a 12m Peak also, now it's maybe gonna be a 6 / 12 combination (Peak2 6m most recent purchase) ... But the 9m is just a perfect size for so many days (big range). I have to fix it, I think I have to.

Quote: Originally posted by khaakon

I'm okay, thanks. Just a mud-smear and wallet-hurt (repairs). Thank god I didn't f*** up those trees too much, not mine :P. If I hadn't been a lightie (~70kg I guess), I would never have made that climb, almost could reach the wingtip in the tree in the center of the cluster there. Had cut the bridles as close to the foil as possible to get it loose enough. Then some real tugofwar.

AAAAAGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!! That is a horrifying sight. I am so sorry that happened to you. Agreed, the 9m Peak 2 is right in the sweet spot size-wize in the quiver. I suspect the re-bridling would cost a pretty penny. Ouch! Not much of a consolation, but should you need to get a new one, $999 gets you a true beauty nowadays. Blue still available, but check out the new optional color scheme:


[img][/img]


[img][/img]

Quote: Originally posted by doubleohkevin

So after doing lots of reading (thanks in a large part to the folks on this tread--I've been lurking for a while), it sounds like the Peak 2 would be a great first kite for me. I'm just trying to decide between the 9m and 12m, and I could use a little advice. This will be my second season snowkiting, and I didn't have a ton of sessions last year, so I'm still somewhat of a beginner. We get a lot of light wind days where I live (often 3-6 knots), but there are enough days with higher winds, and sometimes gusts over 20 knots. I weight about 150-155 lbs. For most of the season, we have a steady cover of 6-12 inches of superfine powder. I mostly have experience flying a borrowed Frenzy 11, and on light wind days it's a struggle to keep it up. I also tried flying it on a higher wind day (~20+ knots) and it had way too much power, but we were also on bare ice that day, so there's that to consider as well. It seems like people are saying that the 9m is the best all-around of the Peak 2s, but a friend of mine who I go kiting with recommends getting the biggest kite possible so it will stay up in light wind days. So what's your experience? Will the 9m fly well enough in 3-6 knots? Will the 12 have too much power at around 15 knots? I know the recommended max is 18 knots for the 9m and 14 knots for the 12m, and I don't really want to exceed that, but you know how it goes. I also realize that no single kite is ideal for everything, so I'll need to get at least a second kite at some point, but I've gotta start somewhere, right?

Without a shred of bias I say... EXCELLENT CALL!

Where by chance do you live and at what altitude do you plan on Snowkiting?Remember, the higher in elevation you are the less stuff is in the air ("stuff" being a highly technical PhD term). If you were, err, as gravitationally challenged as I am (> 200 lbs) the decision would be easy IMHO, go for the 12m if your budget can handle it. Also, depending on where you live (US, ex-US) you can't go wrong picking up one of these beauties from Chris (fewd) at Hardwater.

My reasoning is a couple of fold. Living at altitude myself and generally Snowkiting at around 7-9K above sea level, the wind has less punch than down lower. You noted plenty of powder where you live so you are either very high up, very far North, or very far South (or some combination). Second, pushing through powder no matter how light takes some work and after it gets chewed up you are tracking back and forth through some thick junk. Couple that with the likelihood that you have some powder pigs strapped to your feet and that equals some decent sliding resistance that has to be overcome by kite power. Very different from flying along on skinny racing skis on Hardwater. Remember that with the Peak p2 line that you can pull in the trim line enabling you to throttle down the 12m to almost the same force generation as the 9m without too much sacrifice in performance.

Third, and you've already touched on this, you are already facing the fact that you will need more than one kite. If you go with the 12m then a natural second kite would be the 6m P2. With the 9m you won't have anywhere to go really in the line as the 9m isn't all that much different from the 6 or 12, and the 4m is really only for when it is howling out and you're too scared (sensible?) to launch anything bigger.

Finally, the 12m is super forgiving for learning on because everything happens in slow motion.

The one thing I'd do is upgrade the P2s with a strap across the brake lines. Chris sells those and I have one on all four of my peaks and use it every single session, either to reverse launch, to get the kite down in a hurry, or to hook it on something to keep the kite on the ground.

So.... Go BIG or go home! :D

Quote: Originally posted by doubleohkevin

Alright, more confirmation on the 12m! I guess that removes all doubt. Quote: Does Great Slave freeze over completely? With the current exchange rate you are better off buying a Peak up there. Hard part, based on the calls and emails we get, is finding a dealer that carries the Peak. PBK perhaps? Great Slave is frozen over for about half the year. Which isn't surprising. Average winter temperatures here range from -15 to -40C. I'm not brave enough to go out kiting at the colder end of that spectrum. As for touring, I've heard of people who have kited across the lake. I think it takes a couple of days. PBK and Flysurfer.ca advertise that they have the P2s, so I can check them out. I did some searching last night for a Canadian dealer for brake crossovers and had no luck, so assuming you ship to Canada, I think I'll have to get that from you. But that's not an expensive item, so it won't be so bad, terrible exchange rate and all. Quote: Good luck! I look forward to hearing about your winter adventures, starting next month, right? :D Haha, not far off. We usually get snow in October and the lakes start freezing over in November.

Think I'm gonna move up by you......way too much summer here in Wisconsin:D

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

I have a friend from Yellowknife and the two instructors I certified with are from there.

I forgot to ask if any of those folks still live here now. If so, there's a chance I could know some of them.

Quote: Originally posted by CHICKENKOOP

...such a truck like feeling, slow and steady. turns like a tank

I agree !! got myself a 12m Peak2 2 weeks ago, flown it twice. Big parts of the wing fold in alot, but it still flies and unfolds if you handle it right. I think it needs quite a bit flying in to get in shape, and a little adjustment on the mixers - I'm just not sure if total alignment on ABCZ is the only righteous path (???) I haven't tried with line extensions - yet.

Don't you guys dare badmouth the 9m Peak2 :megan:
It's a 6m and 12m combined !! It's perfect on soo many normal-condition-days. If you will only have one Peak2 - it should be the mighty nine. If you can have two, 6 & 12 still have a good bit of overlap - and will give you a Peak for (almost) every condition.

It all also very much depends on your body weight, physical condition, your Need For Speed (pull), and your chosen discipline/surface.
Edit*: ..and the rest of your quiver.. (P2 12m is a worldclass lightwind kite for little $$)

Off topic; I now got a Buggy, just 2 days ago. Had a first trip with both the 6 & 12 in the air, driving along. The 12 sure moves stuff when the gusts/ wind corridors hit !! Got a used Libre RaceMax from Extremekites UK, had my best day evvahhh!!!

Quote: Originally posted by CHICKENKOOP

big flappy is her new name.

It's a mean green machine :evil:

Quote: Originally posted by CHICKENKOOP

but i can tell already shes going to come in handy this winter!

I am so much looking forward to winter too!! Not only for the Peaks - which I'm definitely getting better at handling, I certainly thinks my skills have improved somewhat, but theres still alot left to learn. I look forward to having all the big white fluff around, so I dare to really start flying my twinskins, the Speed foremost! Those Peaks just makes me feel so lovingly safe, you know !! (hate wearing protective gear, sry)

Quote: Originally posted by khaakon

Had a first trip with both the 6 & 12 in the air, driving along.

Not at the same time - no .. didn't mean to give anybody any funny ideas:P

Quote: Originally posted by CHICKENKOOP

just bought Cheddarheads peak 2 12 meter. got it on Monday( top condition as advertised!) and as luck had it after work was 5-10 mph steady winds. such grunt! reminds me of sailing with the way it luffs during depower and turns. with the 5 meter extensions it took forever to cross the window with steady pull from beginning to end! such a truck like feeling, slow and steady. turns like a tank. just a static fly, but i can tell already shes going to come in handy this winter! big flappy is her new name.

Nicely played! My first Peak was a used 12m too, picked up from the Venerable's fewd' school handmedowns. I've flown it with extensions too and she becomes almost like a kite in super slo-mo. Mine is named Session Saver and I think you now know why!

Now that you've drunken the Peak Coolaid you need to start posting regularly on this Peak worship thread. :karate:

Quote: Originally posted by khaakon

Quote: Originally posted by CHICKENKOOP   ...such a truck like feeling, slow and steady. turns like a tank I agree !! got myself a 12m Peak2 2 weeks ago, flown it twice. Big parts of the wing fold in alot, but it still flies and unfolds if you handle it right. I think it needs quite a bit flying in to get in shape, and a little adjustment on the mixers - I'm just not sure if total alignment on ABCZ is the only righteous path (???) I haven't tried with line extensions - yet. Don't you guys dare badmouth the 9m Peak2 :megan: It's a 6m and 12m combined !! It's perfect on soo many normal-condition-days. If you will only have one Peak2 - it should be the mighty nine. If you can have two, 6 & 12 still have a good bit of overlap - and will give you a Peak for (almost) every condition. It all also very much depends on your body weight, physical condition, your Need For Speed (pull), and your chosen discipline/surface. Edit*: ..and the rest of your quiver.. (P2 12m is a worldclass lightwind kite for little $$) Off topic; I now got a Buggy, just 2 days ago. Had a first trip with both the 6 & 12 in the air, driving along. The 12 sure moves stuff when the gusts/ wind corridors hit !! Got a used Libre RaceMax from Extremekites UK, had my best day evvahhh!!! Quote: Originally posted by CHICKENKOOP   big flappy is her new name. It's a mean green machine :evil: Quote: Originally posted by CHICKENKOOP   but i can tell already shes going to come in handy this winter! I am so much looking forward to winter too!! Not only for the Peaks - which I'm definitely getting better at handling, I certainly thinks my skills have improved somewhat, but theres still alot left to learn. I look forward to having all the big white fluff around, so I dare to really start flying my twinskins, the Speed foremost! Those Peaks just makes me fell so lovingly safe, you know !! (hate wearing protective gear, sry) Quote: Originally posted by khaakon   Had a first trip with both the 6 & 12 in the air, driving along. Not at the same time - no .. didn't mean to give anybody any funny ideas:P

Heja Norge!

Dreaded tip tuck. Have you tried adjusting brake line length under the foam rolls? I've had success with that. Try moving the larks heads up or down a knot. Avoiding tip tuck and shedding it once it happens is a skill that will likely naturally develop as you learn to fly better and better. My 9m is the most tip-tucky of the bunch.

You won't hear me bad mouthing the 9m! Not the 4m neither. Agreed that the 9m could be the call if you were absolutely certain that you were "one-and-done". Problem with that logic IMHO is that most folks love Peaks (wait for it.....) so I would lean towards getting the 6 or 12 first depending on all the various factors and then fill in the 9m later if you can and/or want too. The 4m then becomes the icing on the cake. Maybe the 9m is the icing? Again, depends on your conditions.

Earlier this year at IBX I flew exclusively Peak2s (well, almost). I kept trying to pull out my 9m, but it was so windy I kept going for the 6 and even 4 and had a blast with them. Each time I was really happy I went down in kite size. I had a superb hour flying on the playa on day 2 at least an hour before anybody else had anything in the air, much less scooting around in my buggy. Session Saver to the rescue!

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

You won't hear me bad mouthing the 9m! Not the 4m neither. Agreed that the 9m could be the call if you were absolutely certain that you were "one-and-done". Problem with that logic IMHO is that most folks love Peaks (wait for it.....) so I would lean towards getting the 6 or 12 first depending on all the various factors and then fill in the 9m later if you can and/or want too. The 4m then becomes the icing on the cake. Maybe the 9m is the icing? Again, depends on your conditions.

I hear you brotha, and I was only joking about any badmouthing. The overlap between sizes of Peaks, is ginormeus - so by the time you have to switch up or down, you can skip a whole size. But each size has a optimum range for your needs, and you could argue starting with a 9, and then add up or down according to your needs. *Then you will build a quiver which will be so in tune with every wind for relatively little $. Think of the value if FS sold 6/9/12 with one bar and lines, or just KO? I fly my 6m on the large bar from the 9m...

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

My 9m is the most tip-tucky of the bunch.

Mine was really bad too, worse than the 6 atleast. * Became much better regards to that after adjusting the mixer & brake lines !!

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Have you tried adjusting brake line length under the foam rolls?

Not yet, probably next time. Along with removing everything not needed on lines, those pesky flags goes first.

Quote: Originally posted by khaakon

those pesky flags goes first.

:puzzled::puzzled::puzzled:

Not sure what you mean Norskman.

Another little trick is to play with which end the brake lines come out of, effectively lengthening and shortening the bar that way too. I run my 12m and 9m on their stock longer bars with both going wide on the brake lines. For the 12m you have to or it would probably take about 30 seconds to turn it. For the 9m that little bit adds just that bit of welcome pep (much as you've done sizing up your 6m - nice!).

My 4m and 6m are narrow and wide, respectively on their stock shorter bars.

Agreed that selling the 6/9/12 combo with one bar/lineset would be a very interesting option. The 4m is a little beast for just "those days" and would probably always be a lone wolf. I suspect it sells much less than the other sizes just because of the rareness of "those days". When they come, it is a blast to fly. Crazy amount of DP, crazy! :P

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Not sure what you mean Norskman.

..little flags.. aha; Tags!! Not flags, then. I remove them with a scalpel or very sharp scissors, They can make the lines catch on each other.

* Edit, after below post:

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

the little buggers that say FRONT and the like

Yeah, those. I guess I should have said 'tabs' ...?

Quote: Originally posted by TEDWESLEY

I've found the 4m to be quite useful in our area. I use it where I would have used a 2.5m foil. There's safety in a gust and the kite can be kept in the air in the lulls. It's nice and zippy and requires you to fly it somewhat actively. The kite can enter a high speed stall kind of thing where it will drop back in the window and become very sensitive to turn inputs. The cure is to ease off some of the power and let the kite run forward. Totally agree that there is tremendous overlap in the wind ranges. Way before the 12m is in the upper comfort zone, the 6m is pulling just fine. That said, there are times when the 9m might be the perfect ride. Can there be too many kites ?

N+1 Ted. Nuff said!

Yours and my experience seem to completely overlap. I particularly like your description of the 4m's behavior as I've found the exact same to be true. The 4m really performed above and beyond expectations on the Ivanpah playa. That was a fun fly!

My quiver is purpose built, but if in some universe I needed to give up one kite to keep flying it would be the 9m P2. I love the kite, don't get me wrong, but the 12 and 6 cover the 9s range as noted.

Peaks forever!

Quote: Originally posted by CHICKENKOOP

having only recently gotten my peak, i discovered that unlike closed cell and open cell foils i can pile drive my peak nose first into the ground with no damage! first time i down looped it without enough altitude i cringed like i always do, but no BOOM, just a whisper as it piled on the ground! anybody ever do it on purpose like an emergency stop?

Oh, hell yeah! Yet one more thing to love about Peaks (like there isn't enough without this piling on). :frog:

Quote: Originally posted by NorthernKitesAustralia

Hi Windstruck and other Peak fanatics, I want one! The 12m that is. But before I lash out, can I ask what sort of comparison can one make with the P2-12m against any other foil or even LEI kite? The wind range of the P2-12m seems phenomenal and comparable with kites around 15 to 18m big! Would that be about right? I weigh 80kgs so I would have to stick to anything lower than 15knots to fly it? Can't wait to get one seriously.

The 12m P2 is a sweet kite for an inland rider for those lighter more variable wind days. It is challenging for me to compare it to other kites. I used to own a 15m Ozone Summit and it seemed to pull somewhat similarly once the wind was on the stronger side in an otherwise light wind day. The key to the 12m IMHO is its ability to get aloft and stay aloft in very light wind, even if the wind is too light to pull you around at the moment. My 15m Summit fell out of the sky in those settings and I could only get it off the ground during stronger wind periods. If you are buggying that can be a pain in the seat meat.

As you will read about throughout this forum it is a good idea not to get too trapped into thinking about kite sizes in square meters as a means of comparing different sorts of kites. In comparison to a lot of kites out there, the Peaks fly a lot flatter than most. Thus, the "projected area" is relatively high. An extreme example of a low projected area is an Arc style kite (and I believe LEIs, but I've never flown one).

Lastly, the Peak-2s (as compared to 1s) have a clam cleat line for sheeting the kite in when the wind starts to exceed its range. This is a nice safety valve if you are under the kite when the wind gets too strong for comfort.

I'm a huge fan of the 12m Peak. It was my first DP kite and still my favorite.

Good luck! :karate: