General Born-Kite discussion.

Quote: Originally posted by soliver

Um.... 10m is BIG!!! Wowsers.

You betcha. Just wait until you get it up in the air and some good gusts come along doubling your base wind. Your memory will quickly be refreshed that you've got 10 square meters of Fixed-Bridle love up in the air. That little yellow ball is harder to pull than it is on your junior-sized stars, but you'll manage, because the alternative is worse.

I like my larger NS3s, but you will find that there is a lot more bridle line and ripstop to deal with when packing it up. Have fun!

26.5 Beautiful Sq Meters of Ripstop Awesomeness

Ok gang so here is the 10m laid out... its BIG. And I must say, I REALLY like the color scheme on this one... may be fighting for my favorite between it and the 7m.



And since I really loved how Sean stacked his NS2's for a pic, I did the same just to see... so here we have the 4m, 5.5m, 7m, and 10m:



just FYI I had to stand about 2/3 way up a 6' ladder to take the pic.

Sub 10mph wind tomorrow so I may give the 10m a try on lunch.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

the 10 is a beauty. my personal favorite looking one out of the ns3 line up. i like the orange on the bottom instead of white

Agreed!... the orange on the bottom is really nice!

Steve, I tried a Pano with my iPhone and it looked a little weird,... the way that Pano shots have a tendency to distort things, it made it look kinda like they were all the same size.

Quote: Originally posted by soliver

I tried a Pano with my iPhone and it looked a little weird,... the way that Pano shots have a tendency to distort things, it made it look kinda like they were all the same size.

Good to know! I'll lease a helicopter then for the shot.

"What the hell are you doing on the roof?" "Honey, it's important!" :moon:

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Good to know! I'll lease a helicopter then for the shot. "What the hell are you doing on the roof?" "Honey, it's important!" :moon:

Quote: Originally posted by soliver

Awesome sauce...

We're pulling for ya Big Daddy! I'm sure you will have a fantastic time. Full report expected promptly thereafter. :karate:

Quote: Originally posted by soliver

Great session yesterday. Spent most of the time under the 7m, but as the day came to an end and the wind started dropping off, I was able to buggy a little with the 10m, and I really felt just fine with the stock Born-kite bar. Maybe it was the windspeed, but I really felt like it turned just fine for me. Caught a majority of it with the GoPro, so I hope to have a new vid in the next week or so.

Stoked for ya buddy! Glad you got the spiderwebs off your ride and got some! Also happy that you were cool with the standard bar set up. My adjustable width bar most certainly sits in the "nice to have" not need to have category.

Footage please! :karate:

Dang! Whole new thing to think about!

Quote: Originally posted by waybeyond

Cheers Windstruck! I split up the bridle lines, but they can easily be put back to a 3 or 2 line setup. I have just tied up the middle line. For me you get much more control out of using them as 4 line kites. Its really cool that they are customisable like this.

Holy schnikies. I now have a whole new thing to think about with the STARS. I've got a 5m set of quad lines that I use on occasion to stretch out the low end of the wind range with my 12m Peak2 and some old quad handles kicking around. I'm seeing some new experimentation coming on! I do miss flying off of handles sometimes.

Bottom 3 bridles for the back lines? I'd just larks head the center line to the yellow transport loop.

Hot damn! :saint:

5-line bar mod for LongStars!

Following the superb lead of the esteemed Mr. Holgate, this morning I mocked up a five line bar for my LongStar quiver. I cannibalized parts shamelessly from the stock 5-line bar Steffen intends us to use with the LongStars. The bar in the picture below is the LongStar bar, as are the lines. The white center line, little black stopper (with the red cord), and chicken loop are from the 3.2m NS3 I won on the XK raffle (whupp!). The white brake lines and brake strap come from the LongStar bar set up as do the five colored nylon sleeves (I do like those!) and line clip. The donkey stick is of my own design. The green outer lines are paracord that I had kicking around the house and should do the trick. John - I set up the center line the same way as you had it in your LongStar 2 video with a carabiner; I just wrapped the line around the bar to keep things neat for the picture.

As noted previously by John the advantage of this bar over the stock 5-line bar is that all of the load is taken up on the chicken loop. The stock bar splits the load 50/50 between the bar and the chicken loop in a set up that I have tried to like but in the end just couldn't.

The LongStars have a Z-bridle with an innovative 5th center line that scrunches up the middle of the kite to make the kite less efficient and thus sort of a DP system. This center line is further useful to abort stalls and backward flying that the LongStars seem to be somewhat disproportionately prone to do (at least in my mitts).

I am most excited to try this new bar out! I really never cared to fly the LongStars again using the stock bar but they are darn nice kites with a lot of pull. Plus, I just think they look really cool, and well, I own three of them so I wanted to work out a solution so I could actually enjoy them.

Thanks John for the inspiration to make this happen!



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Thanks Big Daddy! Hope you and yours had a wonderful Thanksgiving. We look forward to seeing your next video; you put some fine film together.

Quote: Originally posted by soliver

Cool beans Steve, let us know how it goes. I've been super busy with school and well, life... one day I'll cull through that Video material and give you guys a show from my last sesh.

Got a quick session in with my 3m LS and the new 5-line modified bar.  Pluses and minuses.  Minus on the ground setting it up versus the 3 line NS3 bar, lines, and kite set up.  Two more lines means more to fiddle with.  Had to walk the lines a few times to get everything straightened out despite extreme care in setting up the bar and lines in the house.  Points on the ground go to the NS3.  I'm going to ditch the little clip; more pain than its worth IMO.

Once in the air the LS flew "brilliantly" as JH likes to say!  Really, really, really liked this bar/line/kite set up.  Good point John about making the knots on the brake pigtails 4 inches longer than the power lines; I did that in the house and it was just perfect in the air.  Took a couple of launches and landings to get the 5th line length just right (right again John, just short of tension on the 5th line is where it's at).  Loved, loved, loved having a brake line cross strap for landing a Born kite.  High winds (20+ mph) with the kite at Zenith, pull on the brake strap and the LS dives backward out of the sky right to the ground like its been shot.  Wow.  Initiate one of those screaming backwards dives on purpose with the cross strap followed by a slight tug on the center 5th line and zoom, right back up to Zenith.  Points in the air go to the LS!

Landing and keeping the kite secured to the ground in the center of the wind window is easy with the brake strap.  Point again to the LS.  Packing up:  Point to the NS3 (hard to beat the simplicity).

I really look forward to trying the LSs in the buggy or on skis.  Their stock has seriously risen with this new bar!

Good to hear the LS's weren't a complete bust after all... good read, Steve. Thanks!

Forgot to mention earlier, thats a cool looking coffee table by the way

Quote: Originally posted by soliver

Forgot to mention earlier, thats a cool looking coffee table by the way

Thanks Spencer! Actually, that's our dining room table. I'll keep it interesting and take future pics on different furniture. I'll be sure to throw in a coffee table for ya!

I'm with Jason. If the bungee kite killer is a couple of feet up the one line then once it comes under tension the force will already have come off the lines (because the bar is out of your hands at that point). There would be so much difference in length from left to right at that point that I'd think the kite would just flag out off of the bungee.

This would be super easy to test: next time you are flying a STAR on a short line bar set up just reach up with one hand, grab a line, and let go of the bar.

If it were me doing this I'd just put an extra knot an inch below the knots on both of the bar's long pigtails and put the bungee kite killer between the two knots (assuming here you have the line on the final knot). Easy peasy nice and easy.

Do you have a good source for a bunch of bars and 5-m line sets?

I'm going to try Snowkiting at some point off of 5m lines this winter. If that goes well then it might be a way to go with my skates come Spring. I'm with you; short line set ups would be sweet for snagging quick sessions. You on your board; me on my skates.

Quote: Originally posted by 3shot

I'd think you'd be fine Sean. Typically you'd just let go of the kite, or mother nature would snatch it out of your hands anyway.at that point the kite would be in a luft state as you know. A simple bungie killer would then pull on the one side of the kite while its lufted. IMHO

Perfect! I bought a bunch of paracord super cheap from Home Depot a while back and some Dyneema from a marine supply store. I like the Dyneema line better but you can't melt the ends like you can paracord. What the guy at the Marine store taught me was to wrap tape tightly around the line right where you want to cut it and then cut the line in the middle of the tape. I did that with my adjustable pigtails for my adjustable STAR bar and its done fine for the 3-4 months I've had it. Long term testing continues....

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

"Do you have a good source for a bunch of bars and 5-m line sets?" I guess you could say that. :P Broom handles / paracord / various lines accumulated over time.

Born-Porn, large and small

It has been FAR too long since we've had some good old fashion BORN-PORN on PKF so I thought I'd spice it up a bit! Here for your private delight are two unabashed beauties, my new custom 1.5m NS3 that finally came in the mail today (I got to choose the colors and I dare say it looks dashing) and the Big Lady, my 12.5m. For scale I put one of my boots on the kite down six feet from the top. Never say NO to a Big Lady! :evil:


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Ditto and double mega-ditto...

BEE YOOTIFUL!!!!

Without that shoe and 1.5 kite in the pic, I would have thought....what a cute little kite! :P

Don't know how I missed this thread...but now that I've just recently tried my old NPW on a skateboard, I'm hooked and will be contributing...room for another

BTW, I have a 4m and 7m NS3 that is now in Jersey City...(latest update as of 1/9). Got confirmation from Steffen on 12/21. So hopefully I'll receive them in the next 2 weeks!

At which time I'll do my first NS3 review...hopefull with some pics and video!

Quote: Originally posted by lunchbox

Without that shoe and 1.5 kite in the pic, I would have thought....what a cute little kite! :P Don't know how I missed this thread...but now that I've just recently tried my old NPW on a skateboard, I'm hooked and will be contributing...room for another BTW, I have a 4m and 7m NS3 that is now in Jersey City...(latest update as of 1/9). Got confirmation from Steffen on 12/21. So hopefully I'll receive them in the next 2 weeks! At which time I'll do my first NS3 review...hopefull with some pics and video!

You'll have them soon.

I just used the 4m ns2 on short lines on skis and it did great! It's just my skiing ability that needs help.

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

The 12.5m NS3 is a real work horse as a low-wind snowkite motor. Here is some footage taken yesterday about 10 minutes drive from my house in the Park City mountain valley. Winds were 1-8 mph I'd say, but I didn't measure it. The action shown here is at the high end of the wind scale. There is no footage when the winds were at the low end of this range as the kite was firmly on the snow! I originally launched Session Saver (12m Peak2) but it was too little kite for the conditions! The projected area of the NS3 exceeds the P2 so I tried it next with a bit more success. Any way you slice it, there was "just enough" wind to squeak out a session, but I would have liked to have a lot more. There is some bonus footage at the back end of a new site! On my drive home I saw some kites in the air and dove down a side road. There were two guys flying (one a lot more successfully than the other). Stoked to find a new place!!! I called this video "On Safari" due to my ventures into the tall grass! :D

Just watched the whole thing. I only watched bits and pieces before. That's a great video and I enjoyed the surrounding scenery and music. I used the 4m ns2 briefly on my first outing, but I"m looking forward to some 5.5 or 7 winds to try them out on long lines and snowkite. They're great tuning ability comes in handy I imagine. I also enjoyed watching that poor guy try to walk with ski's on trying to launch his kite. :D Guess I'm not the only one who gets to enjoy the less glamorous side of kiting.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck   The 12.5m NS3 is a real work horse as a low-wind snowkite motor. Here is some footage taken yesterday about 10 minutes drive from my house in the Park City mountain valley. Winds were 1-8 mph I'd say, but I didn't measure it. The action shown here is at the high end of the wind scale. There is no footage when the winds were at the low end of this range as the kite was firmly on the snow! I originally launched Session Saver (12m Peak2) but it was too little kite for the conditions! The projected area of the NS3 exceeds the P2 so I tried it next with a bit more success. Any way you slice it, there was "just enough" wind to squeak out a session, but I would have liked to have a lot more. There is some bonus footage at the back end of a new site! On my drive home I saw some kites in the air and dove down a side road. There were two guys flying (one a lot more successfully than the other). Stoked to find a new place!!! I called this video "On Safari" due to my ventures into the tall grass! :D Just watched the whole thing. I only watched bits and pieces before. That's a great video and I enjoyed the surrounding scenery and music. I used the 4m ns2 briefly on my first outing, but I"m looking forward to some 5.5 or 7 winds to try them out on long lines and snowkite. They're great tuning ability comes in handy I imagine. I also enjoyed watching that poor guy try to walk with ski's on trying to launch his kite. :D Guess I'm not the only one who gets to enjoy the less glamorous side of kiting.

Thanks Sean! I think all of us have lots of less than glamorous sides to our kiting adventures, so you are most certainly not alone.

My new favorite snowkite spot is the large open space you see beyond the safari grass I was plowing through. You access that vast open space from a spot about five minutes drive from where you see my car parked in this video. Turns out this whole mountain valley is sort of a wind alley. Today we had winds consistently blowing 15-23 mph in through there, while you couldn't buy a breath of wind 10 minutes away on the other side of a ridge line. I'll take it and like it. The wind coming through there is the cleanest I've felt up near my house. Yeah!

Quote: Originally posted by lunchbox

That's awesome....I love those wind alley's! Reminds of this time I went to this lake to do some camping. Basically 0 wind at the beach but there was this little lake situated in between little mountains on both sides that was just blowing. Must have been 15-20 mph and clean. I was kicking myself for not bringing my buggy! OBTW, I got my 4m and 7m NS3's today! Laid them out on the living room floor and must have stared at them for about 20 mins. They are very well constructed and looked absolutely beautiful. The colors look even better in person than on Steffen's web site. I'm hoping there's some wind during my lunch hour but it has been really really light lately. If it doesn't happen this Thursday or Friday, then there should be at least a little wind at the beach this weekend. So fingers crossed, I'll have the maiden voyage soon. I was originally thinking I might need to buy the 8.5 for the really low winds but that 7m looks pretty big and since I'll really only be using these kites on a skateboard on asphalt, maybe the 7m will be enough. Time will tell. More to follow soon... Quote: Turns out this whole mountain valley is sort of a wind alley. Today we had winds consistently blowing 15-23 mph in through there, while you couldn't buy a breath of wind 10 minutes away on the other side of a ridge line. I'll take it and like it. The wind coming through there is the cleanest I've felt up near my house. Yeah!

@lunchbox - stoked that you got your NS3s. Very happy you like them. You'll like them even more in the air. Agreed that they are very well constructed and many of them are quite beautiful. I too particularly like the colors of the 7m (it's my favorite in the standard lineup). You will probably note that my custom 1.5m is somewhat fashioned after the 7m!

Agreed that the 7m will likely be ample for asphalt conditions due to the low rolling resistance. The 8.5, 10.0, and 12.5m NS3s are BEASTS and behave that way somewhat. It's one thing to control them (aka, deal with them) when sitting in a buggy or when on skis, but it would be quite a bit to work them on asphalt - ouch!

Wind alleys are the greatest - agreed!

Quote: Originally posted by robinsonpr

Steve....any plans to revisit a landboard on grass now that you've had a taste of kiting on your feet!?!?!?

Thanks for asking Paul. Not the current direction, but who knows? This is the direction I went in October:

http://www.powerslide.com/en/products/inline-skates/powersli...

I never actually got to use them under good conditions but plan to test them out thoroughly at Lake Ivanpah in a couple of months at IBX. The boots are such that I can buy different frames and bolt them on instead. This gives me the ability to also go this way:

http://www.powerslide.com/en/products/inline-skates/powersli...

From what I've read (and thought about myself) I decided to go with the XC-Path configuration first before progressing to the Metropolis set up. The trade of as I see it will be stability versus maneuverability. The two-wheel "wheels of doom" like set up has a distinctly lower center of gravity with the base of your feet being more or less in line with the axles of the wheels, while the three-wheel set up has you perched above the wheels. My hope is to start out on the two-wheel set up and then progress to the three-wheel setup once my skills and confidence (foolhardiness?) rises.

As with snowkiting, what I hope for is a more athletic feel to the sport, one that is actually some exercise (snowkiting sure is!). I LOVE buggying and have no intention of stopping, but face it, we plunk our seat meat down in a bucket and go for a ride. Just not the same. I suspect in that way landboarding would also be more work.

The thing is, I have a strong skating and skiing background, a lousy skateboard background, and zero snowboard experience. I've got a little bit of standup surfing experience, but the lion's share of my wave time has been on a body board with fins on my feet. Going the skate route just seems like the way to go for me. I wish I was a better boarder because it looks really fun.

Maybe I'll borrow somebody's board at Ivanpah and give it a whirl under good wind conditions, wide open space, and go with an underpowered kite.

Quote: Originally posted by robinsonpr

Yeah I've had a dabble with a board on grass but only ever with dubious wind. Only ever tried it very underpowered and didn't really get to the point where I could lean back, I was very nervous of coming off as I have dislocated my knee three times. I've been sticking to the buggy which is of course awesome! I was much more comfortable on skis, and I'm also itching to try a snowboard as I switched to the darkside about 15 years ago. Those skates look superb!! You'll have to keep us posted on progress with them!!!!!

Ouch! Knee dislocations sound horrible. I'd be super nervous in your shoes on a board too. Glad skiing works better for you. Snowboard would be fun to be sure.

It will be several months before I get on my skates, but I have high hopes!

Quote: Originally posted by robinsonpr

Yeah I've had a dabble with a board on grass but only ever with dubious wind. Only ever tried it very underpowered and didn't really get to the point where I could lean back, I was very nervous of coming off as I have dislocated my knee three times. I've been sticking to the buggy which is of course awesome! I was much more comfortable on skis, and I'm also itching to try a snowboard as I switched to the darkside about 15 years ago. Those skates look superb!! You'll have to keep us posted on progress with them!!!!!

I had a landboard for awhile and didn't care for it on grass and my wind. I'm sure most of the problem was me, but I found it unnerving to be on such an inconsistent surface on something with relatively small wheels. If I had a beach close by than it would be a different story. If I were to do it again, I would get serious about a granny tire set up.

Quote: Originally posted by robinsonpr

Granny tires, not heard of that but just googled. My father-in-law sells granny vehicles, I'll have to see if he has any lying around. Not sure if my hubs will take them, but worth a look!!

Hardly worth mentioning I'd think. Who's father-in-law doesn't sell them? :karate:

10m NS3 Impressions?

Yes!!! I'm still alive.

Yea so today I had my first session since November an edit was AWESOME!... No 10m today Steve, but spent a lot of time under the 5.5m and 7m.. ... 7m is still my most used. Windspeed started out in the low teens and I was under the 5.5m. It died a little to I pulled out the 7m. It picked back up, but I kept the 7m up and had a blast... I packed it up after having to hit the QR to eject.

As for the 10m, I think it will be a great machine in the quiver. I spent a lot of time under it in my last session in Nov, and it was great. Just as nimble and forgiving as its smaller brethren. I can't wait to get all JIBE'd up with the Nasa stars. It was just too much wind last year for the sizes I had.

I did learn a few things today: A. Cold puddles are not fun on windy days. B. I need to put grip tape on my foot pegs on my XR. My feet kept slipping esp with wet shoes. C. I need to shorten the length of my XR's downtube and bring the headstock a little closer. (apparently I am not as tall as I thought I was ) and D. All that time I spent repairing the Lug on my PL XR back axle was wasted as it is completely all shot to crap after today's bumpy session. I am going to just have to weld up a VTT style back axle for that buggy now because there's no way I can afford a new PL back axle.

I still have GoPro footage from back in Nov to edit with lots of 10m on there... hopefully soon...

Quote: Originally posted by soliver

Thanks Steve, it was great to get back out there... who knew it'd take up so much time to have 4 kids?!?!?!

That is time well spent brother, time well spent. Like the waves, clean onshore winds will be blowing long after we've turned to dust, but those kids won't be. Your priorities are well placed. :karate:

Totally agree

Quote: Originally posted by alf

I would like to Know the ns3 7 sqm bridle length It s for longboard and sup use un low winds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSq2aF3j2SEI I already know ns3 4 and 5,5 have 2 m long bridles 2 m is fantastic , thats paddle lengths Nasawing 4 sqm has a 2,50 m bridle wich is a bit to long for mast use

I did not take any of my NS3s out of their bags (it's still dark out this AM at my house and they're fast asleep) but I can tell you that the bridles get proportionately longer as the NS3s get larger. The 12.5m NS3 bridles are really long. The key word here is "proportional". To the best I can tell, the different NS3s are just magnifications of each other, as if a Master Kite exists on Auto-CAD somewhere and the designer just shrinks or magnifies the whole thing as necessary for the different square meter requirements. I'm sure it's not that simple, but pretty close.

With that said I'd therefore think the 7m NS3 would have proportionately longer bridles than the 4 and 5.5m and therefore not work too well for your application. Is it possible to "choke up" the bridles and still have the kite fly reasonably well? I'd think you could get away with a bit up choking before the kite wouldn't fill properly.

Alf,

The bridle length is proportional to the square root of the area. My NS2 5.5 is about 2.1 M so a 7 would be about 2.5 M. There are 60 bridles on these kites, so the length varies. Interesting idea of using a stick to support the kite. BTW - I think the climate in Atlanta is quite a bit warmer than France.

Quote: Originally posted by Randy

Alf, The bridle length is proportional to the square root of the area. My NS2 5.5 is about 2.1 M so a 7 would be about 2.5 M. There are 60 bridles on these kites, so the length varies.

I LOVE this answer!

Square-root; that makes perfect sense. I'm not kidding around, it does make perfect sense. I love this forum.

Ok

1.5m NS3 Baby!

I'm heading to Lake Ivanpah for IBX first thing Monday morning. Winds that day are forecasted to be in the mid-30s up to 40 mph. Yowsa.

When I was there last November there was a day with winds like that which left me on the sidelines. I really didn't want that happening again so I had Steffen make me a custom 1.5m NS3. Here's that beauty once again:


[img][/img]


I've got two line sets, one the standard 20m 3-line set with my adjustable width bar and the other a 7m 3-line set with trapeze loop and safety line installed:


[img][/img]


I've switched the lines around since this picture so the little nylon sleeves now go up towards the lines not down towards the bar (thanks Sean!)

I'm thinking my first attempt at buggying Monday will likely be with the 7m line setup. Yes, I am a little nervous but this is what I planned for so I'm just going to need to put my big-boy pants on and go for it!

I'll try and get some video of this little wasp in flight! :karate:

Should be fun Steve. If you actually have 40mph wind it should be fairly violent :evil: but fun . Obviously I haven't flown the 1.5 but have a pretty good understanding of what it will be like.

Word of advice, the 7m lines will not reduce your power by much and will decrease your reaction time. On the flip side, longer lines will give you longer reaction time but will have a longer power stroke which could be a disadvantage as well if a mistake is made. Either way it will still be fun :D

To really gain a reduction in power in big wind, you need to go to 2m lines. On 7m lines in huge wind there is still enough room for the kite to make a heck of a power stroke still.

Have fun, wish I could be there with you trying the same stuff.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Should be fun Steve. If you actually have 40mph wind it should be fairly violent :evil: but fun . Obviously I haven't flown the 1.5 but have a pretty good understanding of what it will be like. Word of advice, the 7m lines will not reduce your power by much and will decrease your reaction time. On the flip side, longer lines will give you longer reaction time but will have a longer power stroke which could be a disadvantage as well if a mistake is made. Either way it will still be fun :D To really gain a reduction in power in big wind, you need to go to 2m lines. On 7m lines in huge wind there is still enough room for the kite to make a heck of a power stroke still. Have fun, wish I could be there with you trying the same stuff.

I hear ya buddy! I may need to pack some Oops! I Crapped My Pants just to be sure. :o

http://www.hulu.com/watch/279577

I'm glad you mentioned reaction time as something to consider. I'm revising my idea and think I'll start with the 20m lines and buy myself a couple of microseconds.

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

...I'm just going to need to put my big-boy pants on and go for it!

Or if you wear your "old guy" pants



You might be just fine

Quote: Originally posted by soliver

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck   ...I'm just going to need to put my big-boy pants on and go for it! Or if you wear your "old guy" pants You might be just fine

Exactly!

I may need to pack some Oops! I Crapped My Pants just to be sure. :o

http://www.hulu.com/watch/279577

Quote: Originally posted by dwalk

Hi, I see some mentions of NPW as opposed to foils? Advantages / disadvantages of each design, where do you buy the NPW's, and are they good value for money? Bear in mind I am a noob! Cheers, David

David,

You've already heard from the venerable John Holgate about all the pluses and minuses. In balance I think they are superb buggy engines, particularly if you are looking to do what is known as Park and Ride (placing the kite out at the edge of the wind window while rolling and just leaving it "parked" there as compared to moving it all over the place).

I'm not sure of Steffen's international distributor network but he doesn't have representation in the US so we too buy directly from him. John is in Australia (you're in NZ, right?).

Here is how to get hold of Steffen:

info@born-kite.de

http://www.born-kite.de/

Steffen is sort of a crazy guy (in a good way!). You should enjoy getting to know him. Payment on his website is via PayPal. Stick with the NS3s; avoid the LongStars. You will want to buy his three line bar and 20m line set in addition to his kites unless you have all sorts of your own rigging. He uses a 3-line set up for the NS3s, the central 3rd line being a safety and "depower" line of sorts. The center line when pulled a little bit scrunches up the nose of the kite making it fly less efficiently and with less pull, thus "depowering" it. If flown harnessed in then popping the safety on the chicken loop will flag the kite out on this middle line. As John said, very simple.

There is a long, long thread here on PKF called "General Born-Kite Discussion". Lots more information there! http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=30721

Quote: Originally posted by bobalooie57

By the way, Steve, that's a fine looking animal in your new avatar!

Ha! Yes, that is a fine looking beast. In my non-kiting life I work in biotech and this bull is relevant to some of my work. Its extra muscularity is due to a peculiar genetic mutation that results in abnormally large muscle growth. Stimulating accelerated muscle growth, while certainly open to abuse, has a whole host of potential important medical applications where undue muscle wasting has occurred or for any of the host of "dystrophies". Anyway, back to kiting! :D

Born-Kite R&D

I reached out to Steffen over the weekend to purchase some Z-bridles and asked him about the fabled UltraStar. As per usual he keeps things close to the vest! His reply:

Hi Steve,

This year will appear a few interesting projects of BORN-KITE and I will inform you in time about.

We keep in touch!

Best greetings to Park City,
Steffen

For any better intel we better tie down John Holgate, though I suspect he doesn't know either or is sworn in a blood pact to absolute secrecy!

BTW, time for somebody else to be the risky first-plunger. I got burned on the LongStars. Come on guys, this is a TEAM EFFORT!

Quote: Originally posted by 3shot

Just needing some education here in regards to handles. Other than some finesse, or flying right off the handles, what advantages are there for the buggy? Say 20m lines. It obviously doesn't respond like a foil when you pull in some brakes for a boost in power. Or does it? The Stars just start flying backwards correct?

I can't answer the question of what will happen when applying the brakes to a z-bridles NASA Star when moving (haven't done it yet) I wanted to set up my smaller NS3s (1.5, 2.5, and 3.2m) as simple zippy flyers for static use such as when I go to the beach. Flying off of handles is just more interesting to me when going static and taking all of the force on my arms.

I think the main three ways I'm going to be traction kiting over the next year will be kite skating in the non-winter months, snow kiting in the winter and more occasionally buggying. Buggy for sure on Ivanpah but it is a seven hour drive so a little hard to do often. I just don't have too many good options around home for buggying. For Snowkiting and kite skating I vastly prefer the DP afforded by my Peaks and Ozones.

Hi Steve, its me John .
As to varying the size of your "Z" bridles or chokes [a straight connection between drive and brake rather than a "doglegged" connection] I would say in an ideal world one would change the length for wing size. The drive to brake distance should be scaled so that it is neither pinched nor allowed to be "bloated." For a given kite flying in the center of its intended wind window [volumetrically not locationally] there is a reasonably set distance between the drive -lines and the brake -lines. The intention in my usage of chokes is to restrain or choke the kite to that distance in the entire range of wind that you are flying the kite in so that it neither bloats outward [greater distance between brake and drive in flight] losing or detracting from the curvature along the cord of the kite nor constricted below the "ideal" cord curvature.
In theory I made cord sets of I think 20 cm, 30 cm, and 40 cm if I remember correctly but in practice I use the 30's for everything over 3m in size [because I cant find my long ones and there are other issues when flying FB over 8m].

As to your question 3shot I think that flying NPW with handles offer a lot more than "some" finesse. The Born Stars, in my opinion, take care of a lot of the details of flying the NASA wings so the flyer does not need to attend to them so it is a lot easier to "park and ride." On handles the NPW can/ has to/ needs to be maneuvered constantly so it can be placed anywhere in the the wind window at any moment and easily "backed" into the center of the window to regain power and by varying the brake tension the power of the wing can be set to the flyers comfort level.

Makes sense John. Thanks
I've haven't flown my Stars on handles. On the bar, they set deep in the window already. I just imagine that with brake tension on handles, it would fall even further back in the window for almost perpendicular side pull or even flying backwards.

Quote: Originally posted by 3shot

Makes sense John. Thanks I've haven't flown my Stars on handles. On the bar, they set deep in the window already. I just imagine that with brake tension on handles, it would fall even further back in the window for almost perpendicular side pull or even flying backwards.

The brake tension on the handles can make it fall far enough back in the window to cause it to fly backwards which is where the delicate dance of balance between the drive and the brakes comes in very much like flying Rev's. That perpendicular side pull is mathematically/ geometrically the ideal direction for pull/ power but it is very hard to achieve and maintain.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Steve I find the the small sizes handle the gusts better so you might be pleasantly surprised. Obviously I haven't flown this particular size though so only guessing. Have you incorporated any type of release? I would be hesitant without. I'm with Spencer for the time being. I've rigged the z bridle up on all my ns2's and didn't care for it as opposed to the stock bar. I might plan on handles with no z bridle on the 7m when I use it for street kite to help eliminate backwards flying in light wind.

No, I haven't got a release worked out. At this point I'm only looking to my three small NS3s as static flyers, not buggy (etc.) engines. If I get into trouble my "release" will be just that, letting go.

It was fun flying the 1.5 this way. I could send it into a back fly with too much brake pressure but it turns so quickly I would just nose it around and take off again. I drilled it into the ground at about 50 mph just for fun, you know, because I could! :karate:

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Ah, I see. Yes if I was using strictly or mostly static I would definitely go handles. Just for fun you should try 4 line without z bridle. That's the most enjoyable option for static flying them for me personally. I would still go z bridle before bar for static fly.

Nice idea. At some point I'll try disconnecting the criss-crossing pigtail. Next on my list, however, is flying my Peak2s from handles. :karate:

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre   Ah, I see. Yes if I was using strictly or mostly static I would definitely go handles. Just for fun you should try 4 line without z bridle. That's the most enjoyable option for static flying them for me personally. I would still go z bridle before bar for static fly. Nice idea. At some point I'll try disconnecting the criss-crossing pigtail. Next on my list, however, is flying my Peak2s from handles. :karate:

Peak on handles sounds like a great plan! I've been wanting a peak handle session but haven't had the time and wind for quite awhile.