Power Kite Forum - 1st depower kite?

1st depower kite?

nibbsy69 - 14-7-2009 at 08:20 AM

Ive been using a blade 3 4.9 now and mainly a rage 3.5 on my landboard, and feel its time to move onto depower. Ive been told the hq neo is a gud kite, wud u agree? Im 5'8" and weigh 11.5 stone, and i wud mainly be using the new kite for landboard and tricks/jumps, and with the possibility next year to use in the water, but may buy a water relauncable kite for this. Views and opinions please!! p.s. wot size shud i get too?

dylanj423 - 14-7-2009 at 08:59 AM

11.5 stone is about 150 lbs, right?? i would seriously consider a 12-15m arc.... great beginner kites.... i say that 'cause im a beginner.... water makes this stuff a lot harder, and every advantage you can get, you should get...

gotta go, the winds are blowin!

good luck

Drewculous - 14-7-2009 at 09:35 AM

'Nother vote for an arc :thumbup:

... used one or a vortex...

But neos are rated intermediate-expert, if you want an hq id roll montana or apex

acampbell - 14-7-2009 at 10:30 AM

Neos are easy enough for first de-power for someone who has time on a Blade. They launch just like an open cell with a momentary pause for some pre-inflation. 11 m is a good size for cross-over use as long as you know that the wind range for water use will be higher. I would suggest adding a leash to the landing handle for high wind work in order to flag the kite and kill the power. The safety is effective at dropping the kite by stalling it, but still leaves it exposed to the wind to be a real drag (literally) in winds over 15 mph.

The Vortex is no longer available from PL unless you find a used one. Not great for land use though. Synergy is a better cross-over ARC

Drewculous - 14-7-2009 at 10:41 AM

lol i stand corrected... disregard my msg then!

haha my bad, i didnt know thew took the vortex down, isnt it still on their site? I just suggested the vortex based on the info on the website, says its an entry level... but take Angus's word... he sells them... er sold them

nibbsy69 - 14-7-2009 at 10:48 AM

Thanks for info guys, like i say it will probably be used just for landboarding, and when i eventually start water use i will end up getting a new water kite. Just wanted to make sure a neo is a gud kite and is worth the money, and that it will fulfill my need of air and tricks!!!

acampbell - 14-7-2009 at 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Drewculous
lol i stand corrected... disregard my msg then!

haha my bad, i didnt know thew took the vortex down, isnt it still on their site? I just suggested the vortex based on the info on the website, says its an entry level... but take Angus's word... he sells them... er sold them

Hmmm yeah they are still posted but I'm pretty sure Marijn told me they were sold out.
The problem with the Vortex on land is a lot of side pull. OK on snow and water where you can edge but not so hot on wheels.

snobdr - 14-7-2009 at 11:39 AM

If your planning on getting a water specific kite (LEI), i would stick with a open cell foil (HQ montana, apex, Ozone access, frenzy). and get a water specific kite when you want to ventur into the water. Unless like most on this site and you have to fly a foil kite on water, then go for the neo.
Foils arnt great for learning to kiteboard/kitesurf, as they are a little more tricky to relaunch after crash, where the new LEIs almost relaunch them selfs.

By the way there are conversions for the blade to make it a depower.

nibbsy69 - 14-7-2009 at 11:53 AM

I have just read up on the hq montana, and it sounds quite gud. Wot size do u think wud be more suitable, 9.5 or 12.5? wud they both provide adequate airtime?

snobdr - 14-7-2009 at 11:58 AM

all depends on your local wind conditions

nibbsy69 - 14-7-2009 at 12:09 PM

As a jumping depower kite, wot in ur opinion is the best?

archkiter - 14-7-2009 at 12:16 PM

Also you might consider a Flysurfer.... good for both water and land :bigok:

dgkid78 - 14-7-2009 at 03:38 PM

Go for the 9.5 Montana....I think they are great kites. Of course i am Biased cause it's all i own. :lol:

oldrestless - 16-7-2009 at 02:39 PM

Wait a second, just checked the price of those Montanas, says over 900! Wow.

soccerflyer - 16-7-2009 at 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by oldrestless
Wait a second, just checked the price of those Montanas, says over 900! Wow.

From a 2M beginner loaner kite to a Montana?

oldrestless - 16-7-2009 at 03:00 PM

No I am actually just checking out what kites are out there. I am thinking of something in the 5-7m range.

tridude - 16-7-2009 at 04:45 PM

apex II , arc, Neo, Flysurfer Pulse or Pulse 2......................................... :lol:

:duh::duh:

AD72 - 16-7-2009 at 10:08 PM

Vote for Apex II for land use for beginning. Pulse (closed foil) takes a bit to get used to on land since it wants to fly even after it is parked on the ground. This is great for water relaunch but requires some getting used to on land. It is amazing on water how it can right itself and take off with little work. The Apex (open foil) stays put when you land it and works straight out of the bag with little adjustment. Of course stake it off to keep either one from getting away from you. I am speaking from experience with a 7.5m Apex and 10m Pulse.

I would like to try an Arc. From what I have seen of Arcs it is best to have someone experienced to teach you the techniques and adjustment.

tridude - 17-7-2009 at 02:14 AM

arc launches are a bit overstated........watch the vid, 1st time launch in sensible winds, piece o cake, arcumsized......................... :lol:

:duh::duh:

BeamerBob - 17-7-2009 at 04:22 AM

I flew tridudes synergy with help one time and then bought my Phantom. I watched the videos showing the technique and launched perfectly for my first phantom flight and I was by myself. After flying for 10 minutes or so, I went over to the car and with the kite happily hovering overhead, leaned into my car to get my water. took a few drinks never having to touch the bar and it barely moved from zenith. Remarkable kites. Different launching than what most are accustomed to but not complicated.

kiteNH - 17-7-2009 at 05:21 AM

I'm not sure if you spell the word "good" as "gud" as a funny joke. If not, you should know that "gud" is not a word and that "good" is what you mean.

My first depower was an Ozone Access XC. No regrets and I'm still flying a quiver of them a year later.

BeamerBob - 17-7-2009 at 05:32 AM

If we are getting into spelling and grammar then....
Ive should be I've
wud - would
wot - what
shud - should
u - you
ur - your

I guess this is some kind of texting shortcut spilling over onto a complete keyboard where there is no character limit and typing is easy? While it isn't difficult to interpret what the shortcuts mean, it is a bit annoying to read having to translate all this. It's a bit like calling collect. I want to talk to you about something but you have to pay.

kitejumper - 17-7-2009 at 06:44 AM

relaunchable is spelled incorrectly as well

snobdr - 17-7-2009 at 06:49 AM

WHAAAA i dont like reading incorrect spelling WHAAA
Harden the F... up

kiteNH - 17-7-2009 at 06:53 AM

Yeah, I'm sorry I even went there. I really try not to harp on grammar or spelling on the interweb, but the "gud" just got me. You're only saving one letter with that abbreviation and its so distracting to read. Same goes with a few of the others Bob listed.

Now back to helping this guy find a good depower. What is your budget?

Seems like you first need to decide what type of kite you want (twin skin arc, closed cell foil, open cell foil). Then you can decide on which one to go for and what size and all that. Personally I only have experience with open cell foils. I like their simplicity and quick set-up; packdown and easy to pull and reload safeties. Also they might be slightly cheaper than the others. However I think that they may have less stability and they also do not have the option of going on the water.

Is there anyplace that you can meet up with other flyers and try out their kites?

EDIT: Sorry snob I dnt mn to b so sft. Wil b hrder n the fut

BeamerBob - 17-7-2009 at 07:25 AM

I hate to bring that stuff up too but growing up with a mom and 2 neighboring aunts that were school teachers made me sensitive to grammar issues. Reading bad grammar (particularly when committed on purpose) is like a poke in the eye every time. Worst of all by mentioning it we seemed to have caused snobdr enough grief to force him to make an extremely uncharacteristic inflammatory and contrary remark about it. :wow: :shocked2:

Now, lets help nibsy figure out which arc er um depower he needs.

snobdr - 17-7-2009 at 08:52 AM

Its just stupid, my spelling isnt perfect, and it didnt bother me i understood him.

He needs to decide if he wants a kite that works for everything.
If he wants a land specific kite now and pick up a water kite when hes ready for that( what i would probably do)
Or if he wants a kite that works for both.

oldrestless - 17-7-2009 at 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kiteNH
I'm not sure if you spell the word "good" as "gud" as a funny joke. If not, you should know that "gud" is not a word and that "good" is what you mean.

My first depower was an Ozone Access XC. No regrets and I'm still flying a quiver of them a year later.

Geez... You really think he doesn't know good is a word? Come on now, quit being a #@%$#!ing #@%$#! for no reason at all.

kiteNH - 17-7-2009 at 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oldrestless

Quote:

Geez... You really think he doesn't know good is a word? Come on now, quit being a #@%$#!ing #@%$#! for no reason at all.

Why so sensitive? Its not like I flamed the guy. How should I know someone's spelling ability. I'm not a spelling nazi but I have never seen gud used as an abbreviation before. It doesn't read well and it only saves a single key stroke so what's the point.

Funny, when I quote you I can see that what you really wrote was quick being a #@%$#!g a$$hole but the forum auto bleeped you. Didn't really that it worked that way.

Anyhow, didn't mean to get everyone's panties in a bunch. Sorry Nibbsy, no offense meant by it. So what are you looking to spend on your first depower? Budget means a lot since they can run about $500-2k

Scudley - 17-7-2009 at 10:26 AM

Back on topic.
I like my 10m Alasca, but I am the only North American who owns one. You would be the first person in England, (as far as I know). There is a review by Dagon here .
There is video at Video. They are a bit of a pain to get, but the the kite has great performance on a board or buggy and a modest price, less than 500 pounds.
Alasca

Good luck on your kite purchase
S

Bladerunner - 17-7-2009 at 12:03 PM

Isn't that spelled AlaSCa ? :tumble:

nibbsy69 - 17-7-2009 at 12:48 PM

So much talk with the spelling issues, calm down lads!!! I just use short cuts as if i'm texting on mobile. I'll try and use proper grammer and spelling for you all to understand!! I have a budget of around £1000, I quite like the idea of the HQ neo as I can use it on land and water.

dgkid78 - 17-7-2009 at 12:53 PM

:lol:

oh be nice

Ps the Neo is a great kite and great price too

acampbell - 17-7-2009 at 01:03 PM

Ah, nice to hear the King's English! I'm too old to have the texting gene.

I have the the 11m Neo and like it on land in winds from 6-8 to about 16-18 mph, where I start running out of de-power. It take will someone around 200 Lbs / 14 stone on the water around 12 mph, I recon.

It's stable and easy to fly. Lands and takes off like a foil with no pumping, and pre-inflation pretty much happens by itself. Unless you are doing freestyle, fly on a reach hands-free with an occasional poke at the bar, or fly with a couple of fingertips, drinking a favorite beverage with your free hand. For landing in high winds over 14-15, I'd add a safety leash.

Then there are the ARCs from Peter Lynn. 15m is a good cross-over size and will do all of the above while munching gusts a bit better.

snobdr - 17-7-2009 at 01:21 PM

Neo is a nice kite but just remember most foils can be very frustrating on the water. Relaunching can be a bear,

acampbell - 17-7-2009 at 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by snobdr
Neo is a nice kite but just remember most foils can be very frustrating on the water. Relaunching can be a bear,

Without trying to challenge your position one bit, I'm wondering why you say this. I can't offer perspective here due to circumstances that keep me off the water so help me out.

I would think that, besides a bow-tie - which is hard to do with a Neo - it should not be much different than a land relaunch. One clear exception might be prolonged dragging on a nose down crash that might allow ingress of water through the vents, but what else? It's not like a high aspect Phantom or Scorpion that takes a lot of trickery to tease it into the right taco position for relaunch.

kitejumper - 17-7-2009 at 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by snobdr

Harden the F... up

hahaha you obviously have never hung out with me.......sometime you can come up and first,we'll do a little "light" powerlifting and if you survive that--we'll do a bit of car pushing for some cardio--if youre not hospitalized after that--i'll take you on a little trip of xtreme kiting "kj style" if you live thru all that--i'll be VERY impressed----so far,none of my friends have made it through lol

oh,about the depower....sorry........my vote is for a flysurfer

snobdr - 17-7-2009 at 06:23 PM

Beside bowtie,they tangle,invert, and will tend to lie flat on the water. Im not saying they canot be relaunched but it takes some time and tecnique to do, whuch can become frustrating for someone learning. New LEIs almost launch themselfs and are a much better choice on water.

DAKITEZ - 17-7-2009 at 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by snobdr
Beside bowtie,they tangle,invert, and will tend to lie flat on the water. Im not saying they canot be relaunched but it takes some time and tecnique to do, whuch can become frustrating for someone learning. New LEIs almost launch themselfs and are a much better choice on water.

I too do not want to challenge you, but I'm curious if you have flown a neo? I can not imagine how someone could bowtie this kite. The other things you mentioned I could see possibly happening, but I just can figure how someone could bowtie this kite.

tridude - 17-7-2009 at 07:21 PM

my Psycho 3, Pulse, and SA have never bow tied...............Synergy and Venoms water relaunch fast, and the Phantoms relaunches fairly easy too. As a matter of fact, Ive never flown the Phantom on land...................................... :lol:

:duh::duh:

_thephantom_ - 18-7-2009 at 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DAKITEZ

Quote:

Hi, I have a neo 14,11 and just ordered an 8 - so I like them.

I have also got a venom 13, 19 [arc] and a waroo pro 14.

I have bow-tied the venom, now that is really frustrating. I have also from time to time struggled with the venom relaunch, but that is mainly due to being in underpowered situations. I have inverted the venom, well I contributed to it, mainly when the wind lulls and I am not quick enough, good thing about a venom it flys inverted so just crash it again and allow it to roll, problem solved.

The waroos a great kite, but it has no character. The waroo would be the slowest kite i have owned to water launch but it gets there with some technique, and when the wind dies, then its a plastic floaty tube.

So to get to the point, the Neos have been the easiest and fastest kite to relaunch i have ever owned, I have not had a bow tie and I cant really see why i would to be honest. In fact I read this post last night and went out today to see if i could, but its just not the same relaunch method as an arc, so it just does not do it. The venoms bowtied for me on relaunch from water, but its 90% technique and positioning your body relative to the kite, so i blame myself when it happened. I have never seen a Neo lie flat on the water, unless i wanted to but i would have to walk or swim to them to achieve the task.[sometimes you wish it would lie flat as it can develop quite a pull in the down position] I have got a wing tip wrapped in a bridle, but it still flew and sort of flapped its way in to shape.
Never seen it tangle either.
I guess give it time and all these things are possible, but bowtie and relaunch problems are not a Neo's weakness.
To balance the ledger, the Neo is a technical kite to land, especially in higher winds.
I had an interesting thing today when i was playing around with the bow tie thing. I deployed the neo 11 to safety [primary top hat] I had the cam cleat on full depower, when i deployed it [shortened front line]. The wind was quite strong, but the damn thing just didnt come down again, it sat in the middle of the wind window about 10ft up doing slow circles pulling me merrily along until i grabbed the rear brake and dumped the Chicken loop. It then flagged out and we went calm again. The Neo has in my opinion has a weakness here in that they advocate a leashless safety - do not ever go out with out a leash. The problem with the top hat and extendible front line is that with the depower pulled in and then dropped to safety, its clear that the extendible frontline in this situation is not long enough and the kite is still flying. The solution is to max out the trimmer [lengthen front lines] before you deploy the safety, this adds another 18 inches to the front line and the brakes then tighten more and the kite comes down. Not an entirely obvious or intuitive thing to do.
So the good and the bad

acampbell - 18-7-2009 at 06:26 AM

Quote:

To balance the ledger, the Neo is a technical kite to land, especially in higher winds.
I had an interesting thing today when i was playing around with the bow tie thing. I deployed the neo 11 to safety [primary top hat] I had the camcleat on full depower, when i deployed it [shortened front line]. The wind was quite strong, but the damn thing just didnt come down again, it sat in the middle of the wind window about 10ft up doing slow circles pulling me merrily along until i grabbed the rear brake and dumped the Chicken loop

Thanks for illuminating this so well. Nothing is worse in powerkiting than feeling out of control, and the only time I have felt this was landing the 11m Neo in winds building to 18-20 mph. Luckily I had a fellow kiter to help me kill the kite, as my last hope for control was to dump the kite altogether into the dunes (I could not reach the landing handle).

Ironically, having the power strap in "full depower" in your case is what kept it flying at all, since you lowered the angle of attack and kept it from a full stall. In my case, I let the strap all the way out, which is what put it on the ground in a full stall but it was still fully exposed to the wind and not flagged.

I love the Neo but will only fly it with a leash to the landing handle from now on.

tridude - 18-7-2009 at 06:59 AM

good point, full power then I yank on the rear lines and down she comes. I had no probs landing the 11m Neo proto this way or on the safety...............Flysurfers same same.......back to bowites, virtually non exsistant. I think alot of it has to do with tubies take a few lessons and boom theyre on depower and water, were as many here on PKF flew for a couple years then took it to the H2O. Bottom line, technology will never outweigh experience.................................... :lol:

:duh::duh:

DAKITEZ - 18-7-2009 at 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by acampbell

I love the Neo but will only fly it with a leash to the landing handle from now on.

where would you hook the leash to the landing rope? center or one side to try and flag it out?

acampbell - 18-7-2009 at 08:49 AM

center of landing handle at the stake loop, a' la Ozone

Bladerunner - 18-7-2009 at 09:07 AM

Snob.

The problems you describe tend to be more with older closed cell foils.

Just like with LEI's the kites have improved emmensly in the last few years. Would it be right for me to knock LEI's because I had a tough time relaunching my 03 Airush C-kite ?

I am NOT anti - LEI. Even on land. I just don't think that foils deserve the negative attitude you put forth.

What was the last Neo YOU have flown ? Flysurfer ??? Sky Country ??? Arc ?????

Until you try them please don't sound so sure of your judgements ! You mates opinions aren't your own !

P.S. The AlaSCa is how Sky Country spell it. That was my poor attempt at a joke !

snobdr - 18-7-2009 at 09:39 PM

I flew the 11 neo, i didnt like the safety at all and wouldnt think of taking one in the water without something better. Im not anti foil, as a matter of fact i would love to own a sa 15 or 17 as they are the lightwind masters. Foils are just not made for learning to kiteboard. I havent seen any foils easily relaunch after piling in or pulling the safety. Now im up in the air about pl and the auto zenith, if i got overpowered and wiped out would i still want the kite in the air? Seems like a good chance of getting tea bagged there.
But anyway foils have superior power for their size over LEIs they have their place. But i think for the beginner, in the water, you cant beat an LEI for ease of relaunch. Most LEIs now launch from just pulling an outside line. Simple.
And I dont know anyone that ever had problems with relaunching a waroo. Read reviews ot them things like " wont stay in the water" and " almost relaunches itself"," relaunches in seconds" are always mentioned.

_thephantom_ - 19-7-2009 at 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by snobdr

And I dont know anyone that ever had problems with relaunching a waroo. Read reviews ot them things like " wont stay in the water" and " almost relaunches itself"," relaunches in seconds" are always mentioned.

I mentioned the waroo, and simply said its the slowest kite I have owned for relaunch, which by logic infers that I have owned faster and thats the Neos.

The Neo is an intermediate - expert kite.

I dont really have an opinion on what is better, just depends on what you want to use it for and where you ride, and in what conditions.

Today, winds were gusting 6kts to 25kts, unkiteable conditions for the Waroo, the Neo's mmm, maybe, but why bother when you have a venom, so you cant beat a peter lynn in gusty conditions like that. To answer your question about would you want an auto zenith Lynn waiting for you sucking up gusts. YES PLEASE

Another day is different, on average, the Neo's fit my local area more days than not, hence a preference over Peter Lynn, [emphasis on lower power]. If Waroos fitted the profile I would use them, just so happens that the tube repair guy is driving a ferrari here and cant decide on wether its a new pool or a tennis court. Oyster Beds, they are not compatible with tubes.

So I read daily on forum people asking for advice, the best advice is based on the best questions asked.

There is not one solution fits all and we cant all be doing kite tests and writing magazine reviews in the Dominican Republic, but im open to offers.

snobdr - 19-7-2009 at 05:15 AM

Yea ok, im sorry the neo is the perfect first depower kite.

nibbsy69 - 19-7-2009 at 09:45 AM

Thanks guys, ive made my mind up, neo 11m it is!! Ill let u know how I get on once ive ordered her!!

dgkid78 - 19-7-2009 at 04:07 PM

Wow did someone just suggest an 11m Neo for a 150lb person for there first depower kite? :crazy:

a little big no?

_thephantom_ - 19-7-2009 at 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dgkid78
Wow did someone just suggest an 11m Neo for a 150lb person for there first depower kite? :crazy:

a little big no?

No - i think he was suggested an 11m as a good cross over kite for water and land, based on his own needs and wants.

People just agreed in general that a NEO was a good depowerable foil for an intermediate and beyond.

Kite size is up to the user to decide based on there needs and manufacturers recommendations.

11.5 stone is 161lbs which is near enough 74kg, so i guess moving from a fixed blade at nearly 4 metres, there is a degree of experience there so a 11 seems ok to me - given that it is used in the appropriate wind ranges with common sense.

There has to be some input here and thought from the person who wants the kite, they have to feel confident in the step up.

dgkid78 - 19-7-2009 at 04:26 PM

Oh ok my bad. :bigok:

soccerflyer - 21-7-2009 at 02:48 PM

Ok, I have same question. What kite should be my first depower? I have read all the above posts. Sounds like it is between Arc (what is an arc?) Neo and Best Waroo?

Well, I want it for landboarding and kitesurfing (if possible). I am starting to hang with some kitesurfers in my area. They use Waroos for both kitesurfing and landboarding.

We have gusty wind here. Normal is 15 mph with gusts around 25.

snobdr - 21-7-2009 at 03:02 PM

Do yourself a favor, talk to your locals, let them recomend a kite for you. Very biased opinions here. The locals will know more about the conditions there and what kite will work for you.

_thephantom_ - 21-7-2009 at 07:20 PM

good advice from Snobdr, go with what the locals ride, what shops support the area and what personally suits the type of flying you want to do.

Like cars we are spoilt for choice, so work out what aspects appeal about the various flavours of kites and of course what does not.

Most people here on the forum like traction power kites, many like me are lucky enough to have a choice in what they use and when they use them.

Lots of cars in the garage so to speak.

Since you have asked a question, I like in no particular order SLE, ARCS, FOILS the technique is knowing their strengths and weakness and applying them to your environment and skills.