Power Kite Forum

Packing away blues...

fulhamatt - 2-8-2009 at 11:53 AM

After a frustrating setup today, I had to resort to disconnecting my lines from the bridles and untangle each line and then reconnect.

I was just wondering if anyone has a foolproof way of packing away/setting up that will lessen the frustrating downtime of untangling lines?
I've tried the way it's explained in the flexifoil user guide and a way I found online, but both have just resorted in a frustrating set up:mad:

lad - 2-8-2009 at 12:18 PM

This is the classic beginner's problem that I suffered months with.

If you're using handles, people will say tight wrapping on them is the way to go (just be careful when unwinding them later). Parapacking (explained on sites and google search) is the other way - if you have the initial nerve and bag space. It's easy and really works. Lately, I just figure-8 them back on the flat "laser" winder the lines originally came on, because I use the same couple of sets on different FB kites.

I use a regular, round line spool (like a power-pro fishing line spool) to untangle lines with. Choose one power line on one handle. Quickly untangle it by running the spool thru the other line tangles n knots while winding it up. Unwind & lay it out, and then do the brake line on the same handle. That leaves the other handle's 2 lines that can be simply untwisted out. WAY quicker, neater & less frustrating then trying to separate and pull thru all the lines from each other - especially in the wind.

Since going mostly to depower, just figure-8/over-under wrapping on the bar seems to solve nearly everything!

FloRider - 2-8-2009 at 12:18 PM

Fixed bridal or depower?

fulhamatt - 2-8-2009 at 12:28 PM

Sorry, it's a fixed bridle - flexifoil rage with handles. I've just read up about how to parapack and I think i'll try that next time.

Kamikuza - 2-8-2009 at 06:56 PM

Para-packing is the way to go!

Things to watch out for - I sometimes get one handle going through the lines of the other ... that's fairly easy to correct though.
My big tip for para-packing is - when you put the kite in the bag, arrange it so that you're packing the line into the back of the bag ie. the side with the back straps. If you're got a backpack style bag, that is usually stiffer than the front, which is flap and flop and make it take 2x as long. Then tuck the handles down the front.
My small tip for para-packing is - when you're pulling the handles out (or packing it up), wrap the kite killer around the handle and don't put them on until you've sorted out twists in the brake lines. When you finished packing, take them off and loop them over a strap or the handle that most packs seem to have ... they'll dry out nicely but won't flail around the inside of your boot and of course it means you don't have to take them off the lines! :thumbup:

speleopower - 3-8-2009 at 04:44 PM

Do the winding around the handles thing.

I need to do a video of this and make it a sticky. In over 10 years of powerkiting I have rarely had a tangle or issues with unwinding.

My method is to always hold the handles together in my left hand with the powerlines pointing at the kite. I use my right hand to wrap the lines in a counter clockwise fashion around the handles while slowly walking to the kite. It helps if you keep a little tension in the lines while wrapping and unwrapping.

When I get a little ways away from the kite I then wrap the lines between the handles a couple of times to keep them from going anywhere. Then fold the kite in what ever method you choose. I usually fold the wing tipes in to the middle and do it again. Handles then go on the trailing edge and I roll the kite up around the handles.


Now for unwrapping. Unroll the kite and get the handles out. Now weight down the trailing edge. Now this time hold the handles in your left hand (point the power line end toward the kite) and use your right hand to unwind the lines in a clockwise fashion while walking away from the kite. A little tension in the lines makes them fall apart. Basicly always do the exact opposite of what you did to wind up the lines.

If all goes right you might have a couple of wraps in the lines which and be dealt with by keeping the handles together and spinning them.

Simple fast and effective. Plus you don't have a kite stuffed in a bag getting all wrinkled! Doing the line wrap thing you can fold your kite, ball it up and stuff it, roll it up etc.

I even use the wrapping method if I should crash while kitesurfing. The lines don't really get tangled up when that happens either. Wind up the lines stuff the kite and handles into my bag and swim to shore. Unroll and and unwind and in ab0out 20 minutes-30 minutes I'm up and flying again!

-Scott

SCREWYFITS - 3-8-2009 at 05:14 PM

Para-pack, without a doubt, IMO...
I've had the fastest pack ups and set ups this way, while all tangle free...

Kamikuza - 3-8-2009 at 05:25 PM

I can never remember which way I wrapped the handles - witness the jumbled mess that is my Revolution ... AND I use the winder! :lol:

DAKITEZ - 4-8-2009 at 05:02 PM

+1 for para pack. The biggest advantage for me (besides being fast and tangle free) is para pack is universal. When I go out and someone wants to use one of my kites they can pull it out with no issues. If I had the lines wrapped around the handles they would have no idea how I wound it up last (including me) and it would be a tangled mess.

With that said any method will work fine you just need to find the one that works best for you.

fulhamatt - 6-8-2009 at 09:33 AM

I parapacked last time I packed away... Just need to wait for the weather to cheer up a bit before I find out if it's worked or not! Was planning on flying tonight, but it's decided to rain instead. :(

f0rgiv3n - 6-8-2009 at 09:56 AM

+1 on Parapack!!!!

kiteNH - 6-8-2009 at 10:39 AM

I used to parapack and then got out of the habit of doing it. The only disadvantages are if you want to share handles/lines with other kites or are packing up a wet or dirty kite that you are going to want to pull out out at home to dry out.

Once you get into the habit and practice of winding I think its just as quick and can be done tangle free. Winding on handles can be a challenge if you don't have kite killers to bind them together.

furbowski - 6-8-2009 at 01:04 PM

any method works, eh?

i usually fold up my lines inside my kites and roll them up around the handles, not as one-step as parapack but works well for the dry sandy beaches and lowish winds i normally fly.

:Ange09:

FloRider - 6-8-2009 at 01:17 PM

Story of my kiting life right now.

lunchbox - 6-8-2009 at 02:43 PM

Just like speleopower describes above...I've tried all methods and this one works the best for me. Up and flying in < 2mins!

acampbell - 6-8-2009 at 02:56 PM

Parapack works great but I frequently unpack kites at home for one reason or another, and that is a drag to pull the line out jut for that, so I use the method described by Speleopower.

I never even have to walk my lines.

Unroll the kite and leave folded with water bottle or empty backpack on the trailing edge.
Unwind and stake lines.
Back to kite, unfold and shake out bridle
Back to handles, launch

shehatesmyhobbies - 6-8-2009 at 05:16 PM

I love to parapack. But another method I do is to unhook both power and brake lines from the kite, fold kite, then attach left power and brake line together at the kite end. then do the same with the right side. start with the kite end putting a finger in between the left and right lines while winding. If you leave it staked out it keeps enough tension on the lines to make a nice tight wrap. Trick is don't turn your hand over while winding, Keep the back of your hand to the sky and the line holder flat at all times. doing figure eights over the winder of course.When setting lines back up to fly then reverse the method remembering to keep both hand flat. Not a perfect way but less untangling!

There are lots of methods. Find a good one and when there is no wind stake out your lines and practice. That will lessen the amount of time cussin yourself and your lines when the winds are good.

Scudley - 6-8-2009 at 05:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by speleopower
Do the winding around the handles thing.

When I get a little ways away from the kite I then wrap the lines between the handles a couple of times to keep them from going anywhere. Then fold the kite in what ever method you choose. I usually fold the wing tipes in to the middle and do it again.
Now for unwrapping. Unroll the kite and get the handles out.
-Scott


Safer to unpack your lines and then your kite. When packing up, pack the kite first. Your lines are unlikely to do anything unexpected if the kite is packed. The same is not true of your kite while you are packing your lines. If your kite powers up while you winding or unwinding you are in serious sheet.
S

ripsessionkites - 6-8-2009 at 07:41 PM

+1 for wrapping around the handles

Kamikuza - 6-8-2009 at 07:58 PM

I guess if you're going to mess around with the kites outside of flying, you shouldn't parapack ... twisted, looped and "knotted" lines are the most frustrating bloody thing to deal with though - next to bow ties :lol:

csa_deadon - 7-8-2009 at 02:28 AM

Just ball them up and throw them in the bag.:crazy:

I use to disconnect my lines and use a figure eight winder, however Jellis has shown me the way:D

After a week of wrapping handles I don't need my winders any more.

jaymzmn - 7-8-2009 at 09:12 AM

parapack first...but i also have a thing i do with my index and thumb whilst winding the lines around the handles so that there are no twists in the lines...and then when to unpack....i just do it in reverse whilst still keeping the thumb and index finger thing so the lines unwind perfectly...

oh, i also grab both the lines connecting to the bridles and do a slip knot as seen in video http://www.iwillknot.com/slip_knot/ - really makes for easy packing and unpacking!

ThePixelGuru - 12-8-2009 at 06:42 PM

I tried parapacking... once. That was a mess. My next session, the lines didn't come out neatly at all; they had all sorts of loop knots in them. It wasn't too bad to untangle, but it was definitely more effort than just walking backwards and moving my hand around the winder. Stuffing the kite into the bag instead of folding and then rolling it probably saved me a maximum of twenty seconds, but stuffing the lines into the bag instead of winding them took me at least twice as long. Much more difficult than just walking towards the kite and spinning my right hand around my left.

Parapacking isn't as neat, is more prone to tangles, and doesn't save me any time - I can't see a reason to do it. Of course, it's entirely possible I'm just not good at it, but it takes me less than a minute to set up and take down my kite, so I haven't seen a reason to give it a second try. Just remember to unwind the exact opposite way you wound and you're set.

Drewculous - 12-8-2009 at 08:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ripsessionkites
+1 for wrapping around the handles


the only way!!

Kamikuza - 13-8-2009 at 01:54 AM

I can never remember which way I wound the lines ... I have to use a winder for the Rev and they always end up in a bloody tangled mess. My C-kite lines give a little grief too, though not as bad. 90% of the time with the parapack, I just walk backwards away from the bag, stake the handles then set the kite up. Perhaps I get a twist when I pull the kite out but and maybe I pull one handle through the others lines, but it's easy fixed.

I've found the secret is to pack the kite nicely, make nice big hole at the back and then use little dabs to get the lines into the bag when you pack - stuffing big arm-fulls down just get the lines stuck on my sweaty skin :)

ripsessionkites - 13-8-2009 at 04:45 AM

winders are bad ... they may go on straight but normally come off backwards if you didnt unwind the same way.

para-packing isnt bad but seems like a slow process

winding on handles keeps everything in tight ... hold both handles together with left hand and wind (to the middle and bottom half of the handles) lines clock wise with right hand. when you come to the end or near bridle, clip everything between the handles. when you want to un-wind reverse the process. never had problems, unless the other person was a LEFTY.

Kamikuza - 13-8-2009 at 07:17 AM

Theoretically, all methods should work relatively the same - especially if you're not taking the lines off the kite or handles ... perhaps some people are just suited to some methods more than others? :D

I also found that winding on the handles, twisted the lines something chronic and I got loads of loop knots. I made a big ol' winder out of wood, about a foot and a half long but still had the same problem - I reckon it was the tension in the lines ... but if I wound them on loose, then they wouldn't come off clean or they'd loop around the winder and do all manner of silly things.

Had a few issues when I started parapacking, but I got it down now :) When I stuff the lines in, I hold the front flap of the bag open and feed the lines through that hand, then with the other just sort of drop about a 1/2 foot of lines into the bag, occasionally stuffing them down ... I reckon it takes about the same amount of time as winding, but it works better for me and is less stress :)

speleopower - 13-8-2009 at 05:12 PM

Never had a bad thing happen while winding my lines around the handles even on windy days.

If your flying with an ATB land the kite on the ATB. If your kitesurfing land your kite on your board. If you do it right the kite will stick to the ATB or kiteboard. Or if it's really windy a handy pole or beach chair will work.

Then wind your lines.

DON'T Parapack. Your kite should be neatly folded or rolled at the end of a session.

12 years of almost exclusive solo flying and no problems with winding around handles. I have to do a video soon and then make it a sticky for all to see and use!

Scudley - 14-8-2009 at 05:54 PM

Quote:

Your kite should be neatly folded or rolled at the end of a session.


I hope you are not folding the kite the same way every time. Having creases in the same place everytime you fold will cause weakness at the creases. At least that is the people I used to sail with said about their sales.
S

speleopower - 15-8-2009 at 06:41 AM

Yup folded/rolled up nearly the same way everytime. Luckily large powerkites don't fold with creases unless you really smash them down. The better way to describe it is to loosely fold the kite. Been doing it the same way for 12 years and a couple of my Quadrifoil X kites are 10 years old.

Scott

Kamikuza - 15-8-2009 at 06:47 AM

Scudley - I think sails are a much thicker and more rigid material than the Chikara-whatever kites are made from. The sail on my Kitewing creases if you fold it ... I roll it up to store it and don't put stuff on it in the car. My Rebble must be pushing 5 or 6 years old, and it's still fine ...

BeamerBob - 15-8-2009 at 07:49 AM

I'm a wrapper myself. Almost exactly like Acampbell, but I leave the kite in the bag while I unwind and stake the handles. I wrap the lines in a figure 8 around where the kite killers are wrapped around the handles while holding the handles at the bottom. It doesn't matter what hand you hold the handles in as long as the lines unwind off the same end they wound on around. Off is off. The twisty loops encountered by kamikuza probably occurred by not letting those twists just wind up on the handles. If you grip the lines very tightly while you wind, you push the naturally occurring twists to the kite end of the lines where they build up. Just let those twists wind up and they will disappear when you unwind.

Kamikuza - 15-8-2009 at 06:17 PM

If I wound them up loose, I got even worse twists ... I'll try it out on the Rev :)

BeamerBob - 16-8-2009 at 05:57 AM

What I'm saying is to let the twists slip through your fingers but do indeed keep the lines tight wrapping around the handles. You can feel the twists slide up to your fingers and you can either let them slip through or keep pushing them to the end. If the lines are attached to the kite then the twists don't have anywhere to go but pile up at the end then the lines seem to have a mind of their own. The twists are harmless if you let them wind up onto the handles as you go.

Kamikuza - 16-8-2009 at 09:20 AM

Gotcha! :thumbup: