So the winter will soon be here and more often than not, it will be too windy to fly my 6m kite.
So im happy to fly the rad 3.2 when it gets a lil crazy, for being pulled along the floor on my bottom but im looking for something with a bit of lift
for those days when the 6 will be a daunting prospect.
Knowing how windy it gets here in the winter, im looking for something around 3m like the radsail 3.2, but something with lift instead of traction, i
was thinking a FF Rage 3.5 after doing some trawling on the interweb.
What do reckon?
ThanksDAKITEZ - 26-8-2009 at 10:30 AM
peter lynn twister II 3m or 4.1m or FF blade V 4m
Rage has very little liftJack1988 - 26-8-2009 at 10:51 AM
Heavy lift?dylanj423 - 26-8-2009 at 11:06 AM
go for the blade 4m... maybe the pl twister, but the rage does not have lift until it is out of its windrangeJack1988 - 26-8-2009 at 11:23 AM
Im not made of money :D My budget is 200pounds.DAKITEZ - 26-8-2009 at 11:38 AM
the conversion I get is 200 pounds = about $325.
That gets you into a twister. Not as much lift as a blade, but more user friendly and stable.indigo_wolf - 26-8-2009 at 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Jack1988
Im not made of money My budget is 200pounds.
FWIW: There is currently a Blade IV 4.9 in the manly Midnight color scheme for £200 on KiteCrowd (formerly the Flexifoil Community Forum).
Blades (III & IV) are showing up more and more on KC and RaceKites.com with the release of the Blade V.
It's also on your side of the Pond, so you don't take quite as much of a beating on the postage.
ATB,
Samjaymzmn - 26-8-2009 at 12:18 PM
200 quid? you can get an awesome kite for that money (used). You'll get a Blade3/4 4.9 or a PL Twister 4.1 very easily for that mullah.jaymzmn - 26-8-2009 at 12:18 PM
200 quid? you can get an awesome kite for that money (used). You'll get a Blade3/4 4.9 or a PL Twister 4.1 very easily for that mullah.Drewculous - 26-8-2009 at 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by DAKITEZ
peter lynn twister II 3m or 4.1m
Twister For The Win!!kitejumper - 26-8-2009 at 01:18 PM
get a bladeJack1988 - 26-8-2009 at 02:45 PM
now im confused! :SJack1988 - 26-8-2009 at 03:00 PM
what about a pansh? i hear that they are good and not that expensive?Drewculous - 26-8-2009 at 03:38 PM
lol just search for that topic here on the forums.... lots of discussion!
What i got out of it is that the pansh kites are ok, but if you can swing a brand name kite, do it... you'll have less problems, and enjoy it for
longer... plus a better re-sale if you want to upgrade... most pansh owners like 'em... but they all move on to name brands eventually... just skip
that step and get a blade or a twister.... much better kites Jack1988 - 26-8-2009 at 04:20 PM
I had a look around and it seems that the pansh kites are decent and reliable at a low price
i only need something inbetween the 6m and the 3m to bounce around with when its too windy for the 6
Would a pansh do the trick?furbowski - 26-8-2009 at 07:11 PM
It would, but flying lifty kites in strong winds is scary stuff.
big kite + gentle wind = kite moves slow, jumps happen slow, less risk actually with common sense.
small kite + big wind = kite moves fast, jumps happen really quickly, lots of risk even if you are very careful.
also beware: if you get a blade or a twister you will then be spoiled for pansh. they might also spoil you for the cirrus.
personally speaking given your ambitions / skill level I'd go for quality.Jack1988 - 27-8-2009 at 04:14 AM
ok i had a look, i would defo prefer controlled jumps on a bigger kite, just not 6m lol, i mean the other day the 6m wasnt trying to kill me but it
was hard work on the arms, jumps were controlled and slow but it wasnt as windy as yesterday on the 3m rad where it was dragmania, its in those kind
of winds that i want something around the same size but with lift instead of traction, im going halves with my bro so he wont want to buy used. We
cant afford a twister or blade and it seems that the pansh, keeps popping up with nothing but good rep, how about an Ace 4m??furbowski - 27-8-2009 at 04:41 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Jack1988
im going halves with my bro so he wont want to buy used. We cant afford a twister or blade and it seems that the pansh, keeps popping up with nothing
but good rep, how about an Ace 4m??
an observation (hope you don't mind...) is that you don't have any top quality kites yet. once you get one, you'll be spoiled, but if you stick to
the cheaper stuff you can still get skills and you have most of the performance you can get from the top kites.
options:
a) convince your bro to buy used, the best option, many of us buy used, just use a little common sense. buying off a known guy on a forum is very
safe. find a good one and you'll be spoiled.
b) a 4.1 twister fits in your budget and has better resale value. But it will spoil you by stepping you up a level in quality.
c) an ace 4 is half your budget but you will need to take your time in setting it up, unless you can find a reseller with a good reputation who will
sell the kite to you. not many of those left... dakitez is one who has decided not to expose himself to the risk of selling badly set-up kites, but
he has left an invaluable guide to setting them up on his website (www.dakitez.com), look for the instruction heading on the left side, near the bottom. There's a small risk involved, every once in a while folks
get kites that are unflyable even after tweaking.
hope that helps your thinking....Jack1988 - 27-8-2009 at 04:56 AM
That thread you linked me, matey said he prefers his ace to his blade :o thats good to hear, theres no shortage of kite stores near me so tweaking etc
shouldnt be a problem, ive had much help from those guys, i have various sets of 23 25 m lines that i can put on the pansh.
Im defo a bit hesitant to sp ash out on a pl or ff just yet and like you said, it might spoil it, i want to experience a couple more other kites
before i shell out mega bucks.
The 5 will be way to big for the winter winds where i am, sh*t, even the 4m will be too big i reckon, do pansh do a 3.5 ace?
In all honesty though, pansh ace is ticking all the right boxes.Jack1988 - 27-8-2009 at 05:00 AM
aha they do a 3.5, splendidfurbowski - 27-8-2009 at 05:05 AM
pansh used to do one, yes.
have a good look through panshforumdotcom.
I may be wrong but some of the aces didn't scale (work out) so well. also they tend to make a bunch of kites and sell them until they are gone then
make some more, so supply is sometimes a bit weird.
the radsail will take over when the ace is too much.
my 5 was good for me up to about 15-18 mph, I've flown it in 20+, but the gusts get too punchy for me at those winds speeds and the ace lifts HARD in
gusts. I was able to pick my feet up at about 10 mph, lift didn't really kick until 12-13.Jack1988 - 27-8-2009 at 05:12 AM
I found this on youtube, seriously in winter every otherday we are getting 25 plus winds.
The radsails 3 is a freaking awesome kite for pull, it just has no lift whatsoever so i want a kite that will be exactly the same power in those winds
but instead of traction, im looking for lift.
Im saving the rad for when i do eventually get on somewheels, thats quite a way off though.furbowski - 27-8-2009 at 05:25 AM
once you get your redirects down, you'll be in better shape than that guy. The first jump was kind of OK, but the other two he flew the kite to the
edge of the wind window and so of course it collapses when his feet get back on the ground.
aside from the lack of redirect, his kicking legs on every jump indicate he's way out of his comfort zone. It's an involuntary reaction, and still
happens to me when I get too high up for my skills.
Aces are really bad at that -- edge stability. You need super clean winds b4 you get stability at the edge with aces. If you don't have good winds,
your redirects need to be solid.
BeamerBob once said you could thread a needle with a blade on low lift setting on the edge, and he's not far off. A world of difference.Jack1988 - 27-8-2009 at 05:37 AM
Yeah im defo getting the hang of redirects, its strange though because it seems to happen instinctivly, like an involuntery impulse lol, its cool.
I we get really clean air here, on the sand banks and beach, its unforgivingly constant lol, there is a very high field also just a few miles from the
coast.
I dont have the urge to jump like that guy was doing anyway, it seemed wreckless.furbowski - 27-8-2009 at 06:20 AM
you're in good shape, common-sense wise.
yeah, that's one the cool things about kiting, all these skills you practice and think about HARD in the beginning will sooner or later become
instinctive and almost unconscious, well, most of the time.
also different kites need to be flown differently because the behave quite differently. you've already mentioned that tho. they'll require different
redirects. the instincts you develop on one kite might not always transfer easily to another kite.
after I started jumping I also started learning how to fly by feel. blind, in other words. I don't fly completely blind, but it is very nice to be
in the middle of a jump, hear an odd noise, and look at it to see if it is something I need to worry about, maybe a dog is running at me or something,
without getting nervous about where the kite is and what it's doing. Also allows me to focus on where I'm landing. Same thing there tho, practice
consciously first, then you find yourself able to use the skill more and more without having to think consciously about it.
sorry to natter on so much.
have fun talking to your bro about kites...Jack1988 - 27-8-2009 at 06:32 AM
I like to fly blind in a low wind to get the feel more and more for the cirrus, obviously not blind folded lol, just looking straight ahead and going
in a figure of eight, i also visualise in my mind that im jumping with it, but im static.
We are pretty much certain on a Pansh though, 4m probably.Jack1988 - 1-9-2009 at 09:35 AM
So chaps i really need a second opinion on what kite to get, im being held back by when the wind is too much for the 6 and the radsails wants to just
drag and sometimes we havent got enough space.
This is an example of the kind of winds we get here in the winter on a regular basis and its still summer! :o
Tbh maybe these winds are too much to fly anything but if thats the case then we wont get any flying time at all in the winter!
Anyway here it is
Now obviously they are not that strong all the time but most of the time its just a bit less than that.
Please give me some solid suggestions on what kite to fly and jump- with when the 6 is suicide?
Will a 4m ace still try and kill me??? Maybe the 3.5 will be better???furbowski - 1-9-2009 at 09:48 AM
the 4 would have most of the lift of the cirrus 6, imho...
3.5 better in that case.
I love my 3,2 crossfire, from 18-28 mph it is a joy to jump with.
If you have something of a budget, the 4m blade would be amazing: with the adjustable AoA it can cover a wider wind range than most FB kites in its
size range.
I've not gone depower yet, but for controlling the power from strong gusty winds there is no replacement, or so i hear. (my first depower is on its
way... I''ve been fully fixed bridle up til now)Jack1988 - 1-9-2009 at 10:11 AM
Cheers Furbowski, isnt no body else around lol. You are probably the most helpful person on this site.
I keep hearing Blade Blade Blade ya know and its what i would love to get but the 200pound budget is out the window now.
So when you say that the 4m ace would have the same lift as the 6. how do you mean? Do you mean that it would be a beast to takeoff and land, would it
pull on the arms as much? etc etc. I could go with the 3.5 i suppose but i dont want to go too small then end up dissapointed.furbowski - 1-9-2009 at 10:35 AM
most of the lift, not the same.
it's possible to change the AoA on an ace, have a look at panshforum(dot)com or U2U me for details if you get one and need to know.
It's just that from watching your videos it seems to me that the cirrus is more of a traction kite than a lifty one. You get jumps out of it yes but
no kite is pure lift or pure traction, wish I could tell you why but I don't understand it well enough to explain quickly. basically (and very
loosely) the faster the kite flies through the air (as a result of the profile chosen for its airfoil shape) the more lift it will produce, but the
harder that lift will be to control. The ace is more lift than traction, and so will have a different overall dynamic that could produce far more
lift than you would expect from a cirrus the same size.
the higher the wind, the more the risks. with a fast kite, that ramps up faster than with a slower kite. The ace is a fast kite. the more wind you
give it, the faster it will go, and the more unpredictable (esp. at first, not nearly so much after a few hours flying) its power will be.
so it's hard to say how a slower stable traction kite will compare with a fast unpredictable lifty one. ( I know I'm making a bit of an assumption
about that cirrus, but I stand behind it)
take off will be easy, the aces are early starters in low winds.
TBH, you want something more stable than an ace when you go with smaller kites in bigger winds. the 3.5 is doable but that's small as you want to go.
Flexiblade calls his 2m ace "the little killer" and I believe him, I'd be scared to fly that thing static for lift when powered up, just plain too
fast for my reflexes.
A peter lynn viper would do you very well, and new it would come in less than 200 pounds. Their twister is liftier and less stable, but that's a
better mix to get in the larger sizes.
EDIT: not too sure about the lift on the viper, and the 3.9 is out of your price range 200 pounds, and you had to throw out that budget? the twister
4.1 would also be nice, but it would have most of the power of your 6m cirrus, same as the ace 4.
long - term you're probably best off with peter lynn arcs, tho, for the conditions you describe.
for now, you could go with the ace, but give yourself one last trawl through rackeites and kitecrowd and ebay for last minute deals.
also could try starting a new thread explaining your wind situation and deisre for a kite with reliable lift in those conditions.kitejumper - 1-9-2009 at 10:54 AM
you should be able to get a blade on the flexi forums--they are always selling them over there.....and prob under 200 quid--and flexiblade is
correct--small kites in high winds--very dangerous cause they are so fast when its windy and theres little to no float w them as well........had the
beamer 3m out in about 25-30 bout 6 months ago--fun scudding,but man, i had to be REALLY careful.......Jack1988 - 1-9-2009 at 11:07 AM
Sh*it man i dunno, now ive seen a Quark on Flexi website that raised my eyebrows, cant even find a blade on there anymore.DAKITEZ - 1-9-2009 at 11:20 AM
My guess why not too many people are chiming in on this is because what you want is dangerous. Jumping on smaller kites (under 5m) is not too safe.
They do not have the float to put you down nicely. They tend to lift you and then drop you just as fast. Now you are saying you want to jump with a
3-4m kite in high winds and you want to get the cheapest kite you can to do it with. All I can say is make sure you leave enough room in your budget
for a good helmet, because you are going to need it.
Please don't take this the wrong way. i just wanted to point out what you are wanting to do is not what most of us would recommend, so I think people
are doing what they were told to do as kids .... if you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all.
I would recommend save your money and get into some good kites and the right kites for your conditions. Remember safety first. Fly smart and live to
kite another day BeamerBob - 1-9-2009 at 11:33 AM
Another thing is I don't have experience flying the kites you own, so can't compare kites I'm familiar with to your kites. Ditto everything Dakitez
said on jumping in high winds and small kites.furbowski - 1-9-2009 at 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by DAKITEZ
My guess why not too many people are chiming in on this is because what you want is dangerous. Jumping on smaller kites (under 5m) is not too safe.
They do not have the float to put you down nicely. They tend to lift you and then drop you just as fast. Now you are saying you want to jump with a
3-4m kite in high winds and you want to get the cheapest kite you can to do it with. All I can say is make sure you leave enough room in your budget
for a good helmet, because you are going to need it.
I'd support that 100%... The higher the winds and the smaller the kites, the more dangerous it gets.
I sometimes forget to say that.... sorry.
keep your safety (and your brother) in mind while you make these decisions...Jack1988 - 1-9-2009 at 11:38 AM
So i should get something that will be slower in the air? but the big kites are a pain to launch and land in strong winds,but then i assume that
smaller kites are the same maybe? when i take the 6 up in strong winds its brutal! drags me half way across the field in 2 seconds but its stable in
the air, just a bit hard on the arms but it a bi*tch to land. I just want something that wont be as brutal going up and coming down but with around
the same lift/traction or whatever you want to call it. :dunno: Maybe a 5 pansh? Man im so confused about this lol.furbowski - 1-9-2009 at 11:57 AM
yes, the smaller you go with jumping the slower and more stable you want your kite to be.
smaller kites yank hard on a powered-up hot launch, harder and quicker than bigger kites will at the same power.
you should learn to launch to the side of the window. set the kite up closer to the edge than to the power, but not right at the edge of the wind
where you plan to take off. the stronger the wind, the closer to the edge you can go. set it up so the leading edge is away from you, the trailing
edge is towards you, the sand is on the upwind tip of the kite (if you fold over a foot or so of the tip and put sand on that, it works better) then
launch by first lifting up the downwind tip by tensioning the power line to that side, while making sure to keep the upwind tip brakes on.
also, you don't need to do a full-on hot launch. turn your kite towards the edge of the window as soon as it begins to leave the ground, and use the
brakes to keep it from fully inflating as long as possible. this reduces my take-off scud from 50-70 feet directly downwind to a 10-15 scud towards
the edge of the window.
doesn't work on every kite, tho, and it works best on big kites in lesser winds.
and ultimately you may not be able to fly any kite safely.
there is a solution for your problem -- a peter lynn arc in the smaller sizes -- but they are out of your price range for the moment.
and even those won't fly safely when the wind is too much.
it's not the force that makes it dangerous, that can be managed. but the smaller the kite and the bigger the winds, the faster the kite moves.
sooner or later it will move faster than the pilot's skills and reflexes can possibly keep up with, and that's when the accidents happen.
bottom line: if you feel like you can't launch safely, don't fly.
flying at my limits is great, but it's also playing russian roulette with the wind. gusts are the problem. strong winter winds tend to be gustier
than the lesser summer winds, and it's the gusts that can catch out of my limits, not the normal wind i am flying most of time I am out for a session.BeamerBob - 1-9-2009 at 12:02 PM
Also realize that you reach a point where you can have too much wind to be jumping with fixed bridled kites. As Clint Eastwood once said: "A man's
got to know his limitations". Knowing can keep you from getting hurt or worse.Drewculous - 1-9-2009 at 12:14 PM
I would stay away from the 5m ace in those winds! There is a video floating around of a guy that went about 30 ft up with a 5m ace, and got seriously
wrecked!
Right winds, right kite...& safety gear... No matter the make!Jack1988 - 1-9-2009 at 12:55 PM
Yeah ive seen that pansh ace vid, just the name of that kite srikes awe into me.
Maybe i could just learn to be patient and not fly the big kite in high winds, the radsails 3m is crazy fun in nuking winds as it drags you along the
floor instead of upwards, maybe i should just fly that more in the winter and get a sledge or something, i dunno., nuking winds i am learning are not
safe on any kite to jump in thanks to all your advice and input. One of the other reasons i was looking to get another kite anyway for jumping is so
that we can fly 2 kites at a time to learn on and chop and change, in low and moderate winds.
I have learnt quite alot since ive been here and am happy to learn more and more.
You probably get this alot but my ultimate goal is to kite surf but i must get a board first and that really scares me because i know how dangerous
and hard skateboarding is, with a kite strapped to me and a board being pulled by the wind is daunting.
So i wont make any rash decisions on buying a kite or even jumping in a high wind now ive spoken to you guys more.
Im still thinking of the pansh 4 or a 4.5, i have the money to buy one whenever, as long as its a good kite for bouncing around in a safe wind then i
will be happy. im sure that when the winter does finally come i might be ready to stick a dry suit on! :o
So just a final question, 4m and 4.5 meter ace, what would be better for bouncing around in a nice wind, maybe a bit more stronger than it is in the
vids of me on the sand banks where i was powering up for the first time. I just want to be safe but have some fun ya know.
I will definitly try learning the take it up in diffent positions of the window etc.
Im hear to learn! tridude - 1-9-2009 at 01:04 PM
awesome relaunch on the 5m Ace off of your car or van...................................:duh::duh:
5m ace is ridiculous in winds over 15-18 mph. I weigh 220 lbs and learned real quick to put it away in those kind of winds!shehatesmyhobbies - 1-9-2009 at 01:12 PM
tri that was a funny video clip. I have started watching that clip a thousand times and never made it to where he launches off the van!Jack1988 - 1-9-2009 at 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by shehatesmyhobbies
5m ace is ridiculous in winds over 15-18 mph. I weigh 220 lbs and learned real quick to put it away in those kind of winds!
Thats that kite out of the question then.shehatesmyhobbies - 1-9-2009 at 01:29 PM
I am not sure of the lift on the 6m cirrus kite you have, but I saw your video. Not trying to shoot you down, the ace is just plain and simple a very
lifty kite.Jack1988 - 1-9-2009 at 01:32 PM
which video? The latest thread i made about the cirrus was the biggest jumps ive had yet and that was in really light constant winds. In the winter it
gets nasty here, today it was gusting to gail force so i didnt go out.shehatesmyhobbies - 1-9-2009 at 01:36 PM
The video you posted on kite jumping. Smart move staying away from the big winds.Jack1988 - 1-9-2009 at 01:40 PM
Yeah i suppose i should just get a pansh 4 or 4.5, screw the high winds, i will have to learn to be patient. I just need to get another kite to learn
on apart from the cirrus 6.
So 4 or 4.5??kitejumper - 1-9-2009 at 02:06 PM
dont think it matters a whole lot as you will be flying in lower windsJack1988 - 1-9-2009 at 02:25 PM
True, well i will let ye know what i get in due course.soccerflyer - 1-9-2009 at 02:28 PM
Wouldn't a small depower kite be best for winds like that to try to get manageable jumps?
I know price is a factor, but I would recon you could get a used smaller Montana for a good price . . . .Jack1988 - 1-9-2009 at 03:49 PM
i dont even understand Depower yet tbh.:embarrased:BeamerBob - 1-9-2009 at 06:55 PM
When I didn't understand, tridude explained it with the example of holding your hand out the car window. Bar out is like your hand is parallel with
the ground slipping through the air not putting much pressure on your hand. Bar pulled in tilts the kite so it catches more wind and thus provides
more power. There is alot more going on than that, but that's enough to see how they are different than flying on handles. You get the added bonus
of being able to fly longer since the power mostly goes through your harness instead of your hands/arms/shoulders.soccerflyer - 2-9-2009 at 06:11 AM
lol, thats way too big for me, im not ready for a bar and harness yet tbh, i feel safer with ff kks and ff handles. ive been on a bar before and it
was ok but i didnt feel comfortable.
Eventually it will be a must but thats a while off.
I am going to try and grab a 2 for 1 off of pansh i think.furbowski - 2-9-2009 at 07:06 AM
which 2 for 1?soccerflyer - 2-9-2009 at 07:12 AM
From what I understand on depower sizes are different than on fixed bridle kites. 9M would be HUGE in the winds you are talking on a fixed bridle,
but on a depower unless you have crazy winds 9M is pretty small really. Plus from what I gather it will be more stable(easier to fly) than a small
fixed bridle (especially pansh), and you will have the all the safety systems that come with deopwer including the ability to depower the kite in a
gust.
Like me for instance. I have a Pansh Ace 5M. I don't take it out in days when wind is in the high teens (mph)- it is too much for me. But I am
shopping for my first depower. I am looking at a 15M PL Synergy. And from what I hear it won't be much fun till the wind gets into the high teens or
twenty's ( I am talking mph). See the diffference?
I just don't want you to get something and regret it. That sucks. My second kite was the Ace and I can't complain cause I got it for like $90, but I
wish now I had just saved up and put that towards a depower.
From what I understand a bar and harness aren't that hard to figure out.Jack1988 - 2-9-2009 at 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by furbowski
which 2 for 1?
Hmm there was a few deals but i went with the Ace 4.5 in the end, 112 GBP which is nice.
I just want to start at the bottom and work my way up, with the pansh and cirrus, i shouldnt have to look at buying another kite for a while,
especially with the Exit in the menders.
Im will have to have a think about what im looking for next tbh, but i wont think about that for now.
