Power Kite Forum

why do kite surfers think that all kiters want to go on the water?

carltb - 4-9-2009 at 03:04 AM

and if they dont then they are not real kiters. they are the under class of kiters and should be looked down on.
personally, i do everything, buggy,snow,surf,landboard but consider myself a kiter first and a landboarder second.


discuss.........................

Maven454 - 4-9-2009 at 03:15 AM

Because people like to believe that everyone wants to be cool just like them? ;)

Kamikuza - 4-9-2009 at 03:34 AM

Same here Carl ... but if you've never had spotty 15 year-olds trying to beat you up and your university hockey teams chums up simply cos they're skateboarders and you're inline skaters, you might not believe how petty the in-group mentality can be :lol:

acampbell - 4-9-2009 at 04:11 AM

Funny, I explain to people what I do with kites and they say "oh yeah I see you on the water all the time...". Oh well

BeamerBob - 4-9-2009 at 04:12 AM

It has been my observation that people that go straight into kite surfing are not kiters in the purest form. They don't really care about the kites themselves but consider them a tool. I love kites AND what they do for me. I like having them, opening them up, setting them up, putting them away, and most of all, flying them. I don't see that with the water only crowd. This is just my opinion and I'm sure it doesn't apply to all of them but I bet I'm close to accurate.

Maven454 - 4-9-2009 at 04:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by acampbell
Funny, I explain to people what I do with kites and they say "oh yeah I see you on the water all the time...". Oh well


Yeah, I get that too.

lynx69 - 4-9-2009 at 05:11 AM

Like dude, you mean there is another form of kiting other than kiteboarding?

I guess I am sheltered because the few encounters I have had with other kiters has been positive.

Started kiting on water but live to far from the coast or a good lake to enjoy on a frequent basis. Fell in love with landboarding and saving pennies for a buggy.

Only 3 variables needed to power/traction kite: Wind, kite and pilot. The other variables are only personal preferrences.

I imagine it is the younger mind set that believe they have reached the zenith of kiting because they kiteboard on water in the liquid form. Time has a funny way of changing youth.:embarrased:

Bladerunner - 4-9-2009 at 05:33 AM

When people are confused about what I do I ask tem if they have seen those guys on water with kitesand the confused look goes away. I say that is what I do on land and that " look " is back.

I learned from Keith Kalio that you can greatly increase your pleasure by becoming skilled at all forms. That is what Carl , Rip, Eli, and many others I look up to do. I ride at vanier all summer while the " surfers " are not allowed on the bay + the wind is too light for them.

We have a history here and there is not a lot of respect between our 2 groups.

B-Roc - 4-9-2009 at 05:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BeamerBob
It has been my observation that people that go straight into kite surfing are not kiters in the purest form. They don't really care about the kites themselves but consider them a tool. I love kites AND what they do for me. I like having them, opening them up, setting them up, putting them away, and most of all, flying them. I don't see that with the water only crowd. This is just my opinion and I'm sure it doesn't apply to all of them but I bet I'm close to accurate.


Ditto to that.

I started kiting in the early 90s with dual line sport kites but flew single line kites as a kid. I really enjoy flying and controlling the kite and feeling the wind. I go out to FLY and ride whereas I think the mentality of many kite surfers is simply that they go out to ride. Many out my way kite surf and ski and some ride landboards as well but many seem to think the epitome of kiting is kite surfing.

Personally, I have no real interest in getting on the water and rarely view kitesurfing videos as I think most of them are boring. I much prefer to see what people are doing on land in environments like mine where mistakes hurt so you can appreciate what one is really doing by boosting big on land or doing something technical with the board.

I don't view kitesurifng as the next step. Just another step and not necessarily a step forward.

However, I do think it is the best avenue for exposure to the sport and bear no ill will towards those who practice only that discipline.

Me, however, I know I'll still be flying long after my boarding days are over simply because I have a love affair with the wind.

PHREERIDER - 4-9-2009 at 06:05 AM

in my experience the kite surfing is hugely broadcast and it has a visual presence also a very showy, cool, sport.

i went to the water first because that's all i thought there was. after getting past the "know the conditions and the weather" thing. i realized the opportunity to ride on the water was limited by a threshold limit of breeze. this bit of info was disappointing, because i had the time and skill just didnot have the breeze.

so went to look about (the internet )and the land board thing seemed to be the ticket and truly it was.

i certainly was not a "surfer" or a windsurfer not even a wake/snow boarder.

i had kite skills just needed more applications.

that's why i eventually went to foils (after tubes) these are kiter's kites.
(i believe i had a previous post about the "rider v. kiter" a light wind difference thing)

catching all the light wind rides with foils while kite surfers(a generalized tube user's label ...nobody get excited). where not getting sessions. a huge advantage in the progression of learning with so much wind /kite time. most kite surfers i know have no land board skills, but some do now by virtue of me getting out there.


and i get the "is this practice for the water" all the time or "what is this"

i generally reply it is its own sport but does have crossover similarities as water.

why the lack of popular spark for land stuff......i believe it to be the splash /crack index

the golden splash crack index of extreme sports (coined it myself, use it at will, please)

-getting big air(or just cruising) and falling into water is fun and repeatable without debilitating consequences. this is the splash factor..it's safe and fun. just about anyone can do this and walk away ..tired maybe but walk away. gross kiting errors, sloppy riding in general, practically just being drag around on the water, with a known safe ending. a marginal threshold level of skill. this makes it accessible to the masses and attractive cool fun with an extreme tag (please accept the implied flotation device use for excluding the lethal component of drowning)

-getting big air(not the only example... a hot downloop turn has worse consequences) and falling to the ground will break your bones. the crack factor. the refined kite skill and balance required to avoid a possible crippling session is not so easy and not that common. broken body parts, tweaked joints and instantaneous skin removal for most folks is just not attractive. ok the equivalent would be say BMX vert riding. i know very few and has same potential out come.


the injury factor suppresses it public appeal as well as participation.

kite surfers aren't going to glamorize a sport (just like kite skating ) that has an injury prone nature for themselves and the potential purchasing public

Drewculous - 4-9-2009 at 06:36 AM

i think if you are a surfer first, then kite... its still a surfer mentality... and most of the people with the off attitude towards land kiting stems from the fact that they are surfers... not kiters. I agree a lot with BBob on this on. I think its where you started. If you started on kites, it doesnt matter where or how you fly, just that you are flying... if you started surfing, then you are in it for the surfing, not the kites.

I personally would want to try water, just because its been my experience that water is slightly softer than dirt... so yeah... if i eat it on the water, there is less of a chance that im gonna completely ruin my day... i know water hurts, but not too bad at my speeds lol.

That all goes without sayin: if it involves a kite, i want to try it :lol:

kitedog - 4-9-2009 at 06:42 AM

The splash/crack index is a great reason for hitting the water...no pun intended.

Also, there are so many more opportunities to "get your board on" in the water. More locations to kite and greater wind direction flexibility.

Don't get me wrong. I love my buggy, my landboard and now my kiteboard. It's all good. For me though, it's been a progression: the buggy helped me get moving and a feel for going upwind, the board gave me some more mobility and the skills for edging and now the kiteboard and the lack of a "crack" factor has opened up a lot of possibilities. There's more places to go and the wind can be more variable in terms of direction. With a good low wind kite, it's hard to get skunked.

I do have to say that once I started landboarding, the buggy started staying at home and now that I'm on the water, the landboard hasn't made it out of the car the last three trips to the beach.

Still love it all...and wouldn't have skipped a step if I had to do it again.

G

BeamerBob - 4-9-2009 at 06:46 AM

I've just started on the water and want to refine my skills, but that won't take away from the fun I have in the buggy. I went out for about 3 hours of buggying Wednesday and left with that familiar adrenaline/endorphin rush that lasts for hours. I just love to feel the torque of sending a kite into the power and love flirting with the limits of my ability to accelerate as quickly as possible while staying seated in the buggy. I left my second (most recent) kite surfing session with a thought about the power thing. It allows you to unleash unmentionable amounts of power from the kite and with some sense, you won't get hurt doing it. I guess all this means I'm a flier and want to make use of that power in many ways, but it all revolves around the kites.

ragden - 4-9-2009 at 06:51 AM

I think the nail has been hit. There is a clear difference between those that started as surfers, and those who started as kite-flyers. The mentality of surfers is more than they are so high on the excitement of what they are doing that they simply dont understand someone who doesnt share that enthusiasm or the desire to jump into it.

I started as a body boarder over 20 yrs ago. Only recently got into kiting, but approached from the standpoint of getting into a buggy, then the snowboard, now on water. I have to say, they are all fun, and have their place. If the wind is blowing, I want to fly/ride. Dont really care where, just want to get out and enjoy what I can. :)

PHREERIDER - 4-9-2009 at 08:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by carltb
and if they dont then they are not real kiters. they are the under class of kiters and should be looked down on.
personally, i do everything, buggy,snow,surf,landboard but consider myself a kiter first and a landboarder second.


discuss.........................




it's their on insecurity that puts up any type of hierarchy of crossover sports. most likely envy driven . the presence of supreme crossover talent demonstrates their limitations. the human ego inflated is quite fragile and reptilian responses are based in fear ....back to the splash/crack index which is based on fear as well. HMMMMM

i'm just a kiter interacting with mother nature having fun. there are dimensions for us all to play in for our own enjoyment. someone else's label only has meaning to them.

snobdr - 4-9-2009 at 09:42 AM

Since my opinion is so highly regarded........

I am a snoboarder by heart... SNO...BDR
I took up kiteboarding as a way to pass the time during the hot summer. Then took on the other disciplines mostly snowkiting. I have dabbled with a landboard but brings back memories of skateboarding days of twisted ankles and these days i dont recover as fast.

One thing that wasnt mentioned here was the ability (in water) to hold down much more kite which then equates to much bigger airs when pulling the trigger.
Also the ability to be able to push it to the limit, trying new moves not worried about being crippled in the process.
On land only the likes of Chasta, or Petter Johnsen to name a couple (snowkiting) that ive seen push the limits to the extreme.
Petter broke his back in 3 places on a botched front mobe which ive seen this same trick missed on water and the kiter was back up to try again.

I try stuff on snow because im more comfortable( riding toeside, carving transitions, timing jumps). This will transition right over to water.
On water ill try things( big airs, wakestyle tricks, handle passes) because it more forgiving on a wipe out. Then transition these back to the snow.

It comes down to each to is own. Whatever floats your boat, or i guess in this instance flys your kite.

furbowski - 4-9-2009 at 09:48 AM

I was thinking just before you posted that yours was one opinion I wanted to see on this thread...

Not what I expected....

But makes sense... I must confess I did think you were a kitesurfer above all else...

snobdr - 4-9-2009 at 09:52 AM

Nope
#1 snowkiting
#2 Kiteboarding
#3 Kitelandboarding
#4 buggy/blocart (even though i dont have either but club members always share)

furbowski - 4-9-2009 at 10:01 AM

OK, a kiter with strong opinions now...

I haven't met many kitefolk at all but none of had much of a weak opinion...

I'd comment, but I just static jump, one of these days I'm going to start something that lets me hold an edge!

I don't fly at the kitesurf beach, but a couple of the local kitesurfers have dropped by to try my kites, one of them loaned me a board for a couple weeks, and so I guess it's a pretty friendly scene here in HK.

coreykite - 4-9-2009 at 10:42 AM

Hey Sailors,
Y'all bring back memories of the AKA in the 1980's.
There was a great divide appearing between the older, hobbyist, single-line kiters and the new-comers, flying two-line kites.
The newbies were younger, talked louder, played their weird music louder and their kites were big and loud too!
Swooping and diving all over the sky!
Roaring and ripping around - Undoubtedly dangerous!

We must put a stop to this!

Almost broke the club in two in by 1987/88.

Of course, we started discovering more and more what we had in common.
The differences started melting away.

Some of the sport kite flyers found a welcome balance in the peacefulness of stable flyers and the zen of fighters, both as flyers and builders.
Some of the single-line flyers discovered sport kites.
I remember the day Steve Edieken taught Dom Jalbert to fly the Rainbows.

I don't think it's surfers and kiters.
Surfers are only one part of the "rider culture"
I know too many who started on skate boards, snow boards or wake boards.
They are riders first and the kite is merely their newest power.

I've seen a few evolve into true kiters.
Discovering the magic of wind-power.

At least they are on the path.

Can't we all just get along?


Safen Up! Buggy On!

"Often wrong... Never in doubt"

the coreylama

furbowski - 4-9-2009 at 11:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by coreykite


Swooping and diving all over the sky!
Roaring and ripping around - Undoubtedly dangerous!

"Often wrong... Never in doubt"

the coreylama


:wee:

I guess we have come on a ways then...

LOL "we must put a stop to this!"

love your sign-off quote, btw.

Houston AirHead - 4-9-2009 at 12:24 PM

extreme sport enthusiast?

kitejumper - 4-9-2009 at 04:51 PM

love everything from a simple single line diamond-to stunt kites-and of course power kites--all activities including snow sledding,skiing,boarding,dragging,buggying,scudding,jumping its all good.......and the next big thing--kite jumping over active volcanoes.......JK:shocked2:

pbc - 6-9-2009 at 06:53 PM

Quote:

Funny, I explain to people what I do with kites and they say "oh yeah I see you on the water all the time...". Oh well


I am loving this thread.

When I tell people what I do the first question is always "Do you kite surf?) (I don't. Not yet at least). The next question I get from most folks is, "Did you see that video of that guy who went kite surfing in a tropical storm and hit that building?" It's challenging at moments like that to produce a polite and constructive response. But I digress...

As for me, I was not a kiter first, I was a sailor first. My Dad was a sailor so I grew up watching him sail. When I was 14 I taught myself how to sail a Hobie Cat and spent the next 4 years mastering that. It was a heck of a lot of fun. A few years later parafoils sucked me into kiting. I started flying dual line but never really got into the whole kite ballet thing. Once I discovered kite buggying the rest of kiting was sidelined for me. But kite buggying is just one means of channeling my addiction because the real addiction isn't the buggy but fast-moving wind powered sports in any form. It's all good to me.

Philip

deezPANSHES - 6-9-2009 at 08:16 PM

another question...
do you guys, who don't kitesurf, think you should eventually do it? like all kiting roads lead to kitesurfing.
i'm not sure why but since i started buggying (learned how to use a kite for traction purpose) I've had a 'thing' about learning to kitesurf. i have this feeling that it is something that i should learn. i have been collecting FS kites too.
odd thing is that it's a bit of a drive to the nearest 'decent' bodies of water. i recently thought about it and questioned myself as to why i have the this urge to learn the water. it really doesn't make much sense for me at my location. i imagine that hardcore buggy guys (guys that have big beaches to run long hauls on all day) might not have the urge(as much).
revpaul

pbc - 6-9-2009 at 08:30 PM

I want to learn to kite surfing in part because it is another way of reducing the chance I will be skunked. It's a long drive to the beach for me and I want to improve the odds I will get some fun in exchange for my investment in driving time and fuel.

The other part is that I think it will be fun. I don't expect to impress anyone with my mad skillz or rad moves. More likely I will be sneered at for my lack of style and my old-guy-foil-loving habits. :-)

The natural progression for me is not toward any one form of powerkiting, but toward all forms. Think "Renaissance Man" of power kiting. All art forms are worthy.

Philip

Kamikuza - 6-9-2009 at 08:38 PM

Ditto what pbc said ...!

carltb - 7-9-2009 at 03:42 AM

my progression was scudding on my ass down a muddy field, then i got a landboard but could only go down wind on it so gave it up and bought a buggy. i learnt alot of kite control in the buggy but soon got bored of blasting up and down the beach. i can do alot of ground based freestyle moves in the buggy, but due to a buggy jumping ban at my local beach, that was as far as it went.(an inexperianced buggier broke his back when he got lofted). so back to the landboard. got a big heavy cruising board and just learnt to go across wind and eventually up wind. i was doing the same as the buggy and just going up and down the beach at speed, then the fun started to happen when i started getting air.
i became compitant on the landboard and thought what is my next challenge? ill give kitesurfing a try. so after 5 sessions i was up and plaining and having a blast, but what i missed about being on the water was the sence of community you get with land based kiting. you can pull up at any time and have a chat with your mates, whereas on the water its a quick chat before you launch, then a session (in the hrs) then a quick chat before you went home.
i then thiought what else can i do so i went snowkiting in norway and picked that up straight away. out of all the boards id strapped to my feet i found snow kiting the easiest to learn. then i tried kite skating and im ok at the minute with them.
out of all the disaplines i do i prefer the landboard the most. if i spend a week only on the water or in the buggy, the next session i have on the landboard is alway a sweet one!!!!!!!!

Bladerunner - 7-9-2009 at 08:03 AM

I think that Snobdr and Phreerider hit it on the head for me .

I think that people who can ride land AND water have the advantage by far. particularily working out jumps. This is why I wanted Phreerider ( and Carl ) to experience Coyotes. I KNEW that PHree' can take this idea and combine it with the jumps he has worked out on water to be the " Ultimate Phreerider " :wee:

Surf people have issues. This is why they need to cover up with board shorts. Thet have the same disrespect for pole surfers so we aren't singled out at least.

flyboy15 - 7-9-2009 at 08:19 AM

I agree with alot of what has been posted. I think that all kiters should open their horizons to all types of kiting. ****Before I tell a story here, I want people to know that I know this guy is not a typical kitesurfer (well at least i hope not) I had a guy come up and tell me that we are actually wasting our time out here (we were landboarding, something he admitted he'd never tried) and that we should be kitesurfing instead. He said just last week he went out and got two 720's AND a 900 in his third session ever... I felt a little "too good to be true" in the bragging so I asked him how the landings went. He actually said, O man I land backwards half the time so I just plan to bomb into the water, thats the point of it....

I believe this is an example of not having the big picture in kiting. I agree with the splash/crack factor of land vs water, and how it would be much easier to practice on water. But you can't go and brag like your a seasoned vet after your third run at it because you threw yourself into spins with no intention of landing correctly (try that on a landboard or snowboard). And definitely not tell people that they are wasting their time when you haven't even tried another form of kiting. I can't diss kitesurfing because I haven't been out yet. Everytime I'm on the beach I wish I had the right gear, and honestly I think it would be a killer time. But I would never walk up to a kitesurfer and say your wasting your time......

I'm a big snowkiter, landboarder, and turf sport defender :flaming::(. For those on the surf side that understand what I'm saying, thank god your out there...

william_rx7 - 7-9-2009 at 10:25 AM

Back to the original question: Why do kite surfers think that all kiters want to go on the water?

Why wouldn't they? Kite surfing is obviously a blast and if you like kiting, why wouldn't you want to go on the water?
That said, I do think it's strange how few kiters at my home spots ever try landboarding or snow kiting. (no buggy for me)

Everyone in the kite surfing crowd is politely interested when I talk about landboarding, but few of them are interested enough to try it in really good wind. Most think it's nuts to think of doing jumps on a landboard, or flying a 12m kite on dry land.

Many people think that kite surfing is the pinnacle of the kiting sports, and maybe it is. Here in Ontario, the best wind, best surface conditions and all around most consistently good conditions are found on the water. Sad but true.

For me, ultimately, the best ride, is today's ride, land, snow or water. (But i'd take a 12" of fresh powder if I had my choice).

Off to my landboard this afternoon.
Ontario Map
LocalKiteSpots - Milliken Mills

acampbell - 7-9-2009 at 10:55 AM

I get the same question all the time from new kiteboarders on our beach when they see me tooling around in the buggy. For me it's just a bit more awkward. I have a heart condition that, under certain circumstances, can limit blood flow to my lungs, which causes me to loose my breath and strength all at once for a minute or so. I am at no greater risk than anyone for biting the Big One, but I'd be in trouble in the open water if I had to be motionless for a minute. Now that I have mapped out in my mind how much of our water is at waist or chest deep at certain tidal ranges, and have found a Mystic Flotation vest cut to fit with harnesses, I'll likely give it a try soon. Until then I just keep telling people that I prefer to keep my arse dry (while I sweat like a pig in the hot GA sun).

BeamerBob - 8-9-2009 at 05:33 AM

I agree with Phillip (and many others) here. I'm working on water skills but still jones for feeling the pull in my buggy all the time. I don't feel like there is an ultimate kite activity, but see myself continuing to try new and different things. Each one I learn has a synergistic effect on the other things I do and plan to do in the future. I love harnessing the wind and having it power some fun. I do like being able to check the boxes now about having kites I can take on the water and that I am able to kitesurf (at some level). I don't feel like kitesurfing is a pinnacle of the kite sports but yet adds credibility to the buggy side of things because "yes I can kite surf but this is a blast as well".