Power Kite Forum - reflex 4m-- not for the timid

reflex 4m-- not for the timid

kitejumper - 8-9-2009 at 10:11 AM

just tried out scudleys 4m reflex today.if there is one thing that drives me nuts,its going out to buggy and finding that i have to pack up everything because the winds are too light---today the winds were a steady 5 gusting to maybe 7-8 ,so i was not optimistic......people have been telling me i was going to love this kite--again i was skeptical .......well.......THEY WERE RIGHT!!!! if you are a power junkie as i am you will love the power of this little beast!! i was able to go back and forth cross my field no problem in the bug........most of the time i could just hold the kite in the window to get power--hardly had to sine or pump it at all--and in only 5mph winds!!! the power delivery is VERY smooth and i flew it without kks and only had to let go once----i prefer being slightly over powered and i think in 10mph this kite would get me there.......i would fly about any kite in 20mph winds,except blade 10.5 or comp xxxl, but im not sure i could handle this in those winds,but i'd love to try........another thing is this kite seems to build up in speed and then you just keep that speed--not like a blade where you keep going faster and faster........my plan was to fly this kite once--then pass it on to the next in line.....WELL FORGET IT!!!! im flying this at least 2 more times before i send it away!! i'd be out there still,if it hadnt started raining.......i have one question as well........WHO SELLS THESE--BECAUSE THIS IS MY NEXT KITE!!!!! SIMPLY AWESOME!!!!

f0rgiv3n - 8-9-2009 at 10:18 AM

LOL AWESOME review :thumbup:

indigo_wolf - 8-9-2009 at 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kitejumper
i have one question as well........WHO SELLS THESE--BECAUSE THIS IS MY NEXT KITE!!!!! SIMPLY AWESOME!!!!

The friendly folks at SkyCountry (Vancouver, BC Canada). If Scudley can't hook you up. Shoot a U2U to solaris... she of the frosty northern winds :wink2:

ATB,
Sam

Jovver - 8-9-2009 at 10:37 AM

Lol. Don, I always enjoy the excitement in your posts. Great review, maybe keep it til at least next weekend so I can try it when we meet up? :lol:

So now the real question is, do you like it more than your 4m Blade? :shocked2:

furbowski - 8-9-2009 at 10:40 AM

Wow that review was written in the moment.

I've flown that kite, and yes it's a beaut.

& by the way if I were ready to buy one I'd u2u scudley or solaris first, then prowl around here:

http://www.skycountry.ca

you can choose your colors if you're willing to wait...

the reflex 10m is my dream FB for low winds.

[edit/] wow didn't take long for the support to roll in, good move on the pass scudley it will only get better from here [/edit]

and yes (edit 2) it is a blade 4 beater (contender may be a better word) but smoother. the long lines on reflexes help (30 m), but they are also among the highest AR FB foils you can get with beginner-friendly flying habits, which goes a long way.

as some have said before, they're kinda like hidden sleepers, i guess there are like 5 or maybe 6 in north america at this point.

kitejumper - 8-9-2009 at 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jovver
Lol. Don, I always enjoy the excitement in your posts. Great review, maybe keep it til at least next weekend so I can try it when we meet up? :lol:

So now the real question is, do you like it more than your 4m Blade? :shocked2:

haha yeah, i get pretty excited sometimes....thats what a little power kiting will do fer ya....i'll keep it for when we get together--you'll like it---i'd say its even between that and my blade--they are different--both excellent kites in their own distinctive ways

Jack1988 - 8-9-2009 at 12:58 PM

Never tried buggying, not yet anyway, i will hope to come across someone flying this for a blast, sounds like great fun!

Tonka - 8-9-2009 at 03:58 PM

What did it tell yah!!! Glad to see i'm not the only one that was blown away by the performance of the SkyCountry kites!!

Excellent review :yes:

...now get in line for a 10meter Reflex :bouncing:

Scudley - 9-9-2009 at 11:22 AM

What knots are the angle of attach set on? Try playing with the AoA. I usually have mine set up on the knots closest or second closest to the A lines. That set up gives the kite lots of speed. The faster you make it fly the more power it produces. I like to fly very actively, lots of sineing and power loops, as opposed to park and ride. The thing I like most about the Reflex is the control: it almost always does what you think it will. At the low end of the wind range my kite is all over the place.
My 4m is my favorite kite, but the wind around here is usually pretty low. I fly my 7m most often. For wind speeds below 6 mph I usually fly my 10m. (The real problem with it is that as soon as you put it out, the wind comes up.) My girl friend flies her 5m Reflex until the wind is over 12 knots and then likes switch down as there is too much side pull for her. Neither of us flies hooked in much.
If you find the speed settles out once you get going try giving it a power loop to speed up the kite and you will go faster. It is like having a second gear.
S
PS Sky Country is getting more popular since we last talked Furb. I have five Reflexes and a 10m Alasca depower. Six other people in Vancouver now fly them; mostly 3 and 4 meters. One person in Portland has two: 3m and 5m. Fastrak in Kentucky has three: 5m; 8m: and 10m. Not bad considering that less than two and a half years ago I bought the first one.

furbowski - 9-9-2009 at 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scudley For wind speeds below 6 mph I usually fly my 10m. (The real problem with it is that as soon as you put it out, the wind comes up.)
S

Now that's the kite I want!!!! Set it up and it calls the wind! Yeah!

but seriously yes if you only deploy that kite below 6 mph that is one fine low wind machine....

(IMHO, a course...)

next time you offer to let me fly it I won't be chickening out on you!

:thumbup:

Tonka - 9-9-2009 at 11:36 AM

Fly the 10...fly the 10..i did you won't regret it!!! Heck fly them ALL....the 3 is great, the 5 is fantastic, the 10 incredible...i'm gonna give the 4 a go when i'm back in Vancouver, it might be coming home with me!!! :spin:

Scudley - 9-9-2009 at 11:45 AM

Tonka, you will have to wait for me to get the Pass the Reflex kite back because there is no way I am letting go of the Blue Max. It is way too pretty.
S

Tonka - 9-9-2009 at 11:54 AM

Ohhh but i've got a real nice 3m......:singing:....lol.....no worries, i can wait a little bit besides i want a 10m next....

Hurry up and pass that baby on so everyone that wants to try it can, but the buck stops here.... :smilegrin:

Maven454 - 9-9-2009 at 12:03 PM

I'm still hoping to try one of those sky country kites sometime. They sure get talked up

Tonka - 9-9-2009 at 12:08 PM

Contact Scudley [here on the forum] and see whats available as i think the "Pass The Reflex" list is still active....just get it before i do as i almost certainly will buy it....lol....

furbowski - 9-9-2009 at 12:11 PM

My debt load is going to hate this...

u2u sent, scudley.

:wee:

Maven454 - 9-9-2009 at 12:11 PM

I'm not seeing a pass the reflex thread anywhere.

Tonka - 9-9-2009 at 12:14 PM

As my previous post...U2U Scudley.

furbowski - 9-9-2009 at 12:16 PM

pass the reflex...

)oops(

?? it shows up as red ??

PrairieWind - 9-9-2009 at 12:16 PM

www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=8412

furbowski - 9-9-2009 at 12:18 PM

:crazy:

thanks, PW

:dunno:
:Ange09:

Maven454 - 9-9-2009 at 12:27 PM

Thanks.

kitejumper - 9-9-2009 at 03:11 PM

had another session today-winds still about 5-8 all was cool --i tried some kite loops--easy to do and really kicks it up a notch--scudley-i'll play around with the aoa and see what i can come up with......

Scudley - 9-9-2009 at 04:29 PM

Kitejumper,
Keep it until after the weekend. I had some emails from Fastrak. He lives close to Cincinnati, but somewhere in Kentucky, you might want to talk to him about checking out some of his Reflexes. He has bigger ones. He probably would not mind trying the 4m.
The 4m Reflex is really predictable. I did my first upwind buggy turns with it. Great for learning buggy tricks. Watch out for the loops. I did three consecutive loops with mine a couple of weeks ago. Ended up OBEing after being dragged sideways into a bramble patch. I guess that is why they are called power loops.
S

WELDNGOD - 9-9-2009 at 05:18 PM

Scud, I gotta know..... How many us dollars?

ripsessionkites - 9-9-2009 at 05:36 PM

are these race kites or beginner kites?

Scudley - 9-9-2009 at 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WELDNGOD
Scud, I gotta know..... How many us dollars?

Check www.skycountry.ca and make sure you have scripting on for full pricing. If your scripting is off no prices or wind ranges.
The 4m as of today is about $480 fob Vancouver shipping is about 30 bucks in the mail. The prices of the smaller kites is proportionally higher than the large ones compared to other brands. Every Reflex has the same number of cells so the amount work each size is similar.

Rip, you have flown them a few times, you tell me. It is a race kite that a beginner can fly or a beginner kite that you can race with?

S

WELDNGOD - 9-9-2009 at 06:25 PM

My scripting was off. Thanks

ripsessionkites - 9-9-2009 at 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scudley

Rip, you have flown them a few times, you tell me. It is a race kite that a beginner can fly or a beginner kite that you can race with?

S

neither ... i saw how the two beginners still struggling when others on beginner foils like the Beamer / Hornet / Flow already in buggies. IMO, its got too much side pull to be race, you want speed not pull and something you can move around the rounds quickly.

its like an interimate foil something similar to the Oxigen / Core / Crossfire / Cooper
but to put it in the class with racekites like the Vapor / Spirit / Yak GT / Nitro Evo II / Xenon its out its league.

what are you selling them under beginner / race?

what year is the Reflex? $480 for a 4m same price as a RII 4.4m "race ready" :spin:

my suggestions is still that they should be on 20m lines ... or the most 25m. 30m is just too long. I would like to have tried one at SOBB just to see how much upwind it go ... it was effortless on the RII, RM+ and Yak GT

Scudley - 9-9-2009 at 07:32 PM

I guess some people like them, some don't.

Let's be fair, some people have access to what many consider to be the best kites and never get the hang of it. Sometimes it's the person not the kite.
S

Quote:

Originally posted by ripsessionkites

neither ... i saw how the two beginners still struggling when others on beginner foils like the Beamer / Hornet / Flow already in buggies. IMO, its got too much side pull to be race, you want speed not pull and something you can move around the rounds quickly.

its like an interimate foil something similar to the Oxigen / Core / Crossfire / Cooper
but to put it in the class with racekites like the Vapor / Spirit / Yak GT / Nitro Evo II / Xenon its out its league.

what are you selling them under beginner / race?

what year is the Reflex? $480 for a 4m same price as a RII 4.4m "race ready" :spin:

solaris - 9-9-2009 at 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ripsessionkites
my suggestions is still that they should be on 20m lines ... or the most 25m. 30m is just too long. I would like to have tried one at SOBB just to see how much upwind it go ...

Richy I was there you should have asked ...
Sky Country has a great custom oriented business. They not only can make a kite any color you want, but also can put any lines you want (20, 25, 30 m), dyneema 160/80 kg or 160/160 kg.

RonH - 10-9-2009 at 07:40 AM

I could agree with flying on short lines if you have good ground wind...

On the beach, short lines would rule.

In our home park, I have ~20m lines on my cooper 3.3 and if the wind comes from the NW I have to keep the kite higher then I would like to find cleaner air. Now if we are talking S winds, I could see even shorter lines working great.

Are the reflexes race kites? I don't know. The 3 and 4s are plenty fast.

Would they win races? Don't know. (Anyone racing with them?)

Are they easy to fly? The 5m is the easiest of the bunch. The 3 and 4 can be a handful in higher winds.

Are they good kites? Yes. And the quality seems to be up there. (dusty's 5m has seen lots of air time and looks good other than the white looking gray from all the dirt.

My 2 cents,
Ron

Scudley - 11-9-2009 at 05:02 AM

Here is some video that a passerby put up of me and a friend flying yesterday. It is not that windy. I could have been flying a much larger kite, but we wanted to fly match kites - 4 meter Reflexes.
S

Jovver - 13-9-2009 at 02:44 PM

Well I had the pleasure of meeting up with Don (kitejumper) again over the weekend. This was the 3rd time that we've met to fly this summer, and each session is even better than the next because he is a great guy to fly with. I don't think I have ever flown with someone who gets so excited about kiting. This time we met up at Edgewater Park in Cleveland, OH, and to our surprise we stumbled upon the 23rd Annual Cleveland Kite Festival! Neither of us had any idea that there were any kite festivals in the area, we just wanted a nice open spot to fly. Well needless to say, there were a ton of people flying many different types of kite. Everything from sinlge line diamonds, 2 line stunters, Revs, to the big octopuses and pairs of legs. It was a blast. We met a bunch of cool people and at first, we were the only 2 power kiters there. I got some more practice in on my bunny hops with the Blaze II and I lost my Blade virginity on Don's 10.5m Blade III (after a lot of coaxing from Don). Now that kite is a monster and extremely hard to hold on to, but there are plenty of threads about that. I figured what the hell, go big or go home. It was fun for a bit, but really too much kite for me to handle at my skill level. We had many inquiries about what exactly we were doing and then later on, we received an honorable mention from the festival crew over the announcement system. They even briefly described different applications of the power kites such as buggying, kitesurfing, etc. Anyways, the special recognition was pretty cool. Then all of a sudden out of the woodwork came a few other power kiters. Don and I talked to them briefly and we referred everyone to this forum, so hopefully they will join the community.

Anyways, the whole point of this little story is that I got to fly the reflex too. And oh man, that kite is fast and it does produce a lot of pull for a 4 meter. I personally don't like handles too much anymore because I really like the feeling of all the pull focused on the harness, it adds a little sense of security for me. I am really terrified of getting lofted and, with the handles, I'm worried I will let go. But with the 4m Reflex, there was no getting accidentally lofted involved. On the lowest AoA setting which we had it set, there is not too much lift. We didn't bring out any wind meters to confirm, but the wind was fairly gusty but remained at about 10 mph when I flew the Reflex. Did I mention the kite was fast? Well it is, like race kite style fast. All it wants to do is dart around like a maniac, but at the same time it is extremely responsive and stable. With brake input on the turns, it pinwheels like a pro. It is a very fun kite and because of the speed, it does develop some nice power, but it is a smooth power increase. It puts up a good fight if you want it to. Overall, I am extremely glad that I was fortunate enough to fly this kite, and I recommend everyone try it at some point, you will not regret it. I did not get the chance to try it on Don's buggy, but he was moving pretty good with it when the crowds died down. It really wasn't the day to get a lot of buggying in because there were a ton of people everywhere. Anyways, there is my $.02 on the Reflex. Thanks again for the awesome opportunity with the "Pass the Reflex"

kitejumper - 14-9-2009 at 06:20 AM

good review erik--lol :smilegrin: