Power Kite Forum

kite buggy

jerome - 14-10-2009 at 10:02 AM

I have booked my first powerkite kite lesson followed by buggy lesson in the afternoon 6hrs total, this saturday .
when i have done the lesson i can hire hire a buggy but cannot hire a kite ,so just wondering how should i choose a kite ?there seems to be so many to choose from

BeamerBob - 14-10-2009 at 11:10 AM

That is going to be a vertical learning curve there to do all that in the same day. You might make some progress but it will be difficult to remember it all after the instructor is gone. Can you give us some info like typical winds to expect, body weight, surface you will be buggying on? We can help guide you to a happy kite relationship then.

revpaul - 14-10-2009 at 11:21 AM

also,
there is plenty of "buggy basics" (and beyond) reading material out there(web).
i wouldn't expect you to grasp a whole lot of the theory before you've actually buggied/kited but if you can store the "basics" info, things may "click/make sense" sooner as you are getting the practical hands on.
you might have better/funner experience.
Paul

kitejumper - 14-10-2009 at 11:21 AM

it seems strange to me to have a buggy lesson so soon--usually you dont hit the buggy until after many hours of being able to control the kite and understanding the capabilities of your skill set,the winds and the kite......you should probably take a look at scoops guide to power kiting on this website--it can fill in alot of details for you.......

snobdr - 14-10-2009 at 01:58 PM

Why does this seem like such a stretch? Say he did 4 hours of kite flying and 2 hours of buggy. If you dont have a handle on flying with 4 hours then maybe you need to be hit in the head or this isnt the sport for you. I would think as soon as someone can control a kite and put it where they want it,they would be put in the buggy. Plus you have an instructor there helping. I would think in 6hrs you should be able to cruise in a bug.
As far as a kite your instructor would be your best bet. they know the conditions where you are and will be able to point you in the right direction.

Kinda odd though that they will teach you to fly on their kites but wont teach you to buggy on one?

WELDNGOD - 14-10-2009 at 02:33 PM

cause they know how verticle that learning curve is gonna be.
The buggy is pretty tough, the kite can be blown out by just one ill fated high speed nosedive. Which you know will happen at least once.

BeamerBob - 14-10-2009 at 02:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by snobdr
Why does this seem like such a stretch? Say he did 4 hours of kite flying and 2 hours of buggy. If you dont have a handle on flying with 4 hours then maybe you need to be hit in the head or this isnt the sport for you. I would think as soon as someone can control a kite and put it where they want it,they would be put in the buggy. Plus you have an instructor there helping. I would think in 6hrs you should be able to cruise in a bug.
As far as a kite your instructor would be your best bet. they know the conditions where you are and will be able to point you in the right direction.

Kinda odd though that they will teach you to fly on their kites but wont teach you to buggy on one?


I just remember how inept I felt once I started rolling in the buggy. I considered myself somewhat accomplished with a kite on those first tries, being comfortable flying my Crossfire 5m, Ace 5m, Reactor 8.3m etc. Heck, I was busting 12 foot jumps on my Blade IV 6.5 way before I figured things out in the buggy enough to link a left and right turn together. I'm just going from my own personal experience. Your experiences might be different.

WELDNGOD - 14-10-2009 at 02:50 PM

Jerome, I'm sorry ,I didn't answer your Q. But in order to tell you the A. ,we need more info.weight,wind speed that you will be flying in. different kites for different wind speeds and weights. Alot of variables to sort. If you get the wrong info ,you could get hurt or worse.
I would not put someone on a buggy w/o them proving that they have a certain mastery of flight. And even then they are gonna go tandem first to see what is happening.
My wife took off in my bug one day while I was fishing. I turned around to see her and a flexfoil 2.5 going down the beach in my buggy. I taught her how to fly but never taught her how to buggy, not even basics like STOP,TURN,EMERGENCY MANUEVERS. So off I went , as fast as I could. But by the time I got to her she was out of beach and tried to turn. Instant OBE.... slam..... never been on a buggy again unless I was drivin it.... Lesson learned the hard way.

snobdr - 14-10-2009 at 02:51 PM

The kite is more likely to get blown out on a nosedive in the first hour. Thats why i said its funny they will teach you to fly on there kites but not buggy with one.

snobdr - 14-10-2009 at 02:55 PM

But weldNgod if you had given her pointers before she took of she probable would have been alright right?

acampbell - 14-10-2009 at 03:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by snobdr
But weldNgod if you had given her pointers before she took of she probable would have been alright right?


NOPE. Seen it many times. They sit in the bug, dip into the powerzone just a bit too much and then this happens as the buggy accelerates...

1) They forget everything you said. You can scream in their ear and they will not hear you.
2) All situational awareness is lost. Just the white knuckles and wide eyes. They no longer know where the wind is coming from and where they are going.
3) They will likely chase the kite and run over the lines, often wrapping the axle(s). Ive seen a few line sets destroyed.

A few prodigies will get it right away. Most need to master the kite near blind. Then you have to walk them through a jibe on their feet running. Then you have to get them in the bug and tightly control the situation. It goes on.

Hey Snobby, have you ever even been in a buggy?

WELDNGOD - 14-10-2009 at 03:21 PM

she didn't ask or tell. I was reelin in a fish . She was flying my 2.5 rage in like 12-15mph wind , next thing I know she has got a hundred yard lead on me. And I realize she has no idea how to stop or turn. She only knows how to static fly. She just jumped in the bug and away she went.
She will tell ya ,it was the most fun she has had in a while ,but she doesn't want to do it again. She got tossed when she turned. Guess I make it look too easy when I slide the rear end around.

WELDNGOD - 14-10-2009 at 03:27 PM

In her defense , she went at least a 1/4 mile before she attempted to "jibe". And she was going faster than I can run.

snobdr - 14-10-2009 at 07:38 PM

Yea ive been in a bug, ive been on water, snow , atb also. I must be one of those prodigies was never in a bug before and a buddy asked if i wanted to try, pretty much jumped in and went. I think its the easiest of the disciplines aside from a blocart. Actually went for a midnight spin at the WW buggy bash.
I think if winds are decent, and the guys got 6 hours, put him on a trainer, let him get the hang, like someone else posted, do some running to the side, talk about jibing then let him loose in a bug. Im not saying give the guy a hooj kite or anything just enuff to get him going. I could definately get a newb going on a bug in 6 hours and these guys are professionals.

WELDNGOD - 14-10-2009 at 08:03 PM

I agree w/ snobro, it's possible.
But probably not well advised for general public joe blo. For every one that is a prodigy, there will be one major public safety hazard. But props to jerome for seeking pro help beforehand:thumbup: And Jerome, if you read up a bit here you will be much more prepared

tight lines, WG

cheezycheese - 14-10-2009 at 10:15 PM

i believe it's possible, for him it wont be combining two different aspects. it will be just one new experience. i have a family friend who moved from NYC to LA, having never driven any type of vehichle, and got a job as a city bus driver.
she said it wasn't so much the idea of learning how to drive a bus, it was just learning how to drive-period. a bus just happened to be the vehichle she used to learn. Jerome wont have any habits developed,or maybe not even any fears yet. not being incensed to the dangers or complications involved may take away that little thing inside that tells you that you might be trying to do too much (did that make any sense :crazy: ) i wish him luck...
in any event the lesson is Saturday, we should have a good read on Sunday one way or the other...

but seriously, welcome Jerome and good luck. if it helps any, my first Buggy engine was/is a 4m beamerIV. the day i was on the beach trying to learn, winds were between 15-20mph maybe a little more- and I felt overpowered. i quickly had my first o.b.e. and i wished i had a smaller kite to fly. i weigh about 205lbs.

acampbell - 15-10-2009 at 05:51 AM

Jerome, back to your case, you will do fine if you just take it in layered steps, starting with the kite. Remember that most everything with the buggy works the same at a jogging pace as it does fully lit.

revpaul - 15-10-2009 at 10:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by acampbell
Quote:
Originally posted by snobdr
But weldNgod if you had given her pointers before she took of she probable would have been alright right?


NOPE. Seen it many times. They sit in the bug, dip into the powerzone just a bit too much and then this happens as the buggy accelerates...

1) They forget everything you said. You can scream in their ear and they will not hear you.
2) All situational awareness is lost. Just the white knuckles and wide eyes. They no longer know where the wind is coming from and where they are going.
3) They will likely chase the kite and run over the lines, often wrapping the axle(s). Ive seen a few line sets destroyed.

describes me to a tee unfortunately. i can read/research all i want but can't seem to recall/implement that knowledge until sometime after the initial go around or two.
i knew how to static fly all my FB/Depower kites. soon as i sat in buggy i could hardly remember the basics of kite flying. same when i tried skiing for the first time, after months of buggying. i was falling down all over the place because i was not flying the kite. once i took a break and realized that i was simply not flying right i was fine.
Paul

kitejumper - 15-10-2009 at 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by snobdr
Why does this seem like such a stretch? Say he did 4 hours of kite flying and 2 hours of buggy. If you dont have a handle on flying with 4 hours then maybe you need to be hit in the head or this isnt the sport for you. I would think as soon as someone can control a kite and put it where they want it,they would be put in the buggy. Plus you have an instructor there helping. I would think in 6hrs you should be able to cruise in a bug.
As far as a kite your instructor would be your best bet. they know the conditions where you are and will be able to point you in the right direction.

Kinda odd though that they will teach you to fly on their kites but wont teach you to buggy on one?
ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? so 4 hours of flying time is enough huh?? why didnt you tell me?? i could have been jumping with my blade 10.5 on my first ever day of flying!! jerome-i think angus will point you in the right direction--unless you're a prodigy

Bladerunner - 15-10-2009 at 04:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kitejumper
Quote:
Originally posted by snobdr
Why does this seem like such a stretch? Say he did 4 hours of kite flying and 2 hours of buggy. If you dont have a handle on flying with 4 hours then maybe you need to be hit in the head or this isnt the sport for you. I would think as soon as someone can control a kite and put it where they want it,they would be put in the buggy. Plus you have an instructor there helping. I would think in 6hrs you should be able to cruise in a bug.
As far as a kite your instructor would be your best bet. they know the conditions where you are and will be able to point you in the right direction.

Kinda odd though that they will teach you to fly on their kites but wont teach you to buggy on one?
ARE YOU KIDDING ME???? so 4 hours of flying time is enough huh?? why didnt you tell me?? i could have been jumping with my blade 10.5 on my first ever day of flying!! jerome-i think angus will point you in the right direction--unless you're a prodigy




What the heck does jumping on a 10.5 Blade have to do with taking proper lessons ?


I think Snobdr is right here.

Using IKO kite lessons as a good example :

3 - 2 hour lessons

1st lesson - learn basics of wind window, kite safety and control with a 3m ish trainer foil. Introduction in to depower kite and some body dragging , if you are up to it. THAT'S 2 hours !!!!!!
2nd lesson - learn how to self rescue, rules of navigation, body drag up wind and board start, if you are up to it.
3rd lesson - Board starts , turns , getting upwind. In a perfect world.

6 hours and you should be a compitent , self capable beginer.

I have never heard of kitebuggy lessons but I can see them following a similar pace. I would hope that I can get a person self capable in the buggy in 6 hours but I would prefer it was in 3, 2 hour sessions.

I wouldn't be teaching a person ANYTHING about jumping in the 1st 6 hours ?

It is common for kitesurf shops to rent boards but not kites as well.

Angus will set you up but WHO is giving buggy lessons in North America ??? Expect to need 2 or 3 kites depending on your winds. I would expect the instructor will help you out. Most brands have a low lift buggy kite.

Aren't you in Europe Jerome ?

snobdr - 15-10-2009 at 04:59 PM

And thats in the water with much bigger kites, on land in a buggy with much smaller kites no learning self rescue and such. Should be no problem. I love how sum make it seem like its impossible.

kitejumper - 15-10-2009 at 05:36 PM

blade, youre right about the jumping......but i think for most people 1 day of lessons wont be sufficient.......

acampbell - 15-10-2009 at 05:37 PM

I have to give a nod to Bladerunner and an apology to snobdr and say that it is not quite a stretch to present a course of study that could be effective for a large percentage of people over a well organized period of a few days.

Bladerunner - 15-10-2009 at 05:53 PM

One thing that is extremely clear in Van. is that different people progress at very different rates.

It's all about having fun and playing with the wind! :Ange09:

kitejumper - 15-10-2009 at 09:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bladerunner
One thing that is extremely clear in Van. is that different people progress at very different rates.

:
true-i guess maybe the people ive watched and myself must be slow learners cause i dont think we could have gotten it down safely in one day, maybe not even a couple--but it might be different for some others.......

Bladerunner - 16-10-2009 at 06:34 AM

At the end of a set of IKO lessons you are only set up with the most basic of skills but able to handle yourself safely . How far you get depends on you.

What Jerome would be getting in one day seems like overload I agree but if he is in shape enough to last the whole 6 hours I expect he should be ready to try the buggy after 4 .

Anybody notice Jerome doesn't care what we think !:singing:

A PROUD EXAMPLE !

Look at Airins set up . She got about 2 - 2 hour instruction days out of me a couple of weeks ago and she is now set with safe skills and confidence. She has flown everythin from Nasa wing to depower and was able to make her own choices in gear. Airin understands the wind already so is a special case. :thumbup: