So what is better for kiting? Old-school straight downhill skis or parabolic skis? I skied for years on straight skis and then rented parabolic skis
last year. They made nice fast turns but I am not sure that is what is needed for kiting except for tacking. What is better for holding an edge as
the kite wants to pull you sideways like while in a buggy.Kamikuza - 20-10-2009 at 10:25 PM
I must be out of touch ... what do you mean by "parabolic"?
Skins and snowboards have a side cut that basically sets how much the ski/board will flex when carving and so determines the turn radius ... the
sidecut will also keep more of the ski edged into the snow when erm edging. A straight edge when flexed in a turn would lose a lot of it's bite into
the snow ...
... wouldn't it? :embarrased:macboy - 20-10-2009 at 11:45 PM
Right you are - you don't need / want the carving prowess that the parabolics provide. The straighter the better. Plus with a straighter ski you get
more edge and can haul down more power ultimately. Not that parabolics won't work - I just hear that straighter is better.
PLUS you can pick them up at garage sales for $10 a pair!
Kami - I think the side cut is more to do with the carving ability than the flex. The core should be the determining element in the flex department?
Maybe?
When the parabolics first came out I rented a set and went bombing around the mountains. I wiped on some icy black diamond and couldn't dig an edge in
to stop my slide to save my life....the parabolic shape meant that only the front and rear edges of the ski were edging in hopes of stopping me. My
old schoolers woulda stopped me way faster......more edge digging. Same for kiting I guess -> more edge on old schoolers.Kamikuza - 20-10-2009 at 11:50 PM
Think you're right, Maccers - core & construction determines how much flex or pop the board has ...
I still think that a straight edge will have less edge into the snow though, when the ski is flexing ie. you're putting force into it through the
boots ... I'm look at a piece of paper I'm waving over the desk :laugh:
How long have "parabolics" been around? Thinking about my 210cm Kneissl White Stars and the 99cm Fischer WebXL's I got now ... parabolics aren't park
sks, are they?ragden - 21-10-2009 at 05:33 AM
A lot of the new "snowkite snowboards" have little to no sidecut on them. I would think the same would work on skis for snowkiting...Kamikuza - 21-10-2009 at 05:36 AM
I wonder if they're stiffer than regular boards, flex less and so are more inclined to go in a straight line ...?ragden - 21-10-2009 at 05:46 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Kamikuza
I wonder if they're stiffer than regular boards, flex less and so are more inclined to go in a straight line ...?
I think thats the general idea. When I get home tonight, I'll try to remember to test the flex next to my downhill board (Nidecker Megalight III 174).snobdr - 21-10-2009 at 08:18 AM
This all is dependant on riding conditions. If your on hardpack sidecut will make more of a difference then it would on powder. Flex patterns are also
dependant on the style of board(park,pipe,freeride) determins the "pop" of the board as well as general feel.Bladerunner - 21-10-2009 at 02:48 PM
I have a short set of parabolic with turned up tails. Seem O.K. ?
I also have held on to a set of long old straight skis to go for speed runs but I haven't had a chance to use them. :flaming:Kamikuza - 21-10-2009 at 06:18 PM
IMO edge quality makes more of a difference, the harder the snow is ... blunt edges don't to diddly on ice :cool2: sidecut will always determine your
turn radius - so long as you're carving and not sliding your turns
Don't forget with skis etc you can edge off and slide them easily ... and a little edging will let you run in a straight line. I think there'd be a
point of balance between edging, sliding downwind, turning upwind and going in a straight line
I plan on using my short skis ... eventually although I don't like the idea of
being twisted around ...snobdr - 21-10-2009 at 06:35 PM
Some may be better then others but they will all work. Ive ridden my old park board that has a wicked sidecut and had no problems. Remember your not
always going straight.AD72 - 21-10-2009 at 09:17 PM
Thanks for the input. I think I will look for some used straight ones used and then get them tuned up. I will go for the shorter length. Maybe
185s. I had skiied 205s. When I used the parabolics last season they were 174. I went to Sierra at Tahoe to downhill two times last season. I
rented at the mountain the first time and the skis were slow. The second time I rented at a local shop and they were probably the fastest skis I have
been on. I belive a lot of it has to do with the condition of the skis surface and edges.Kamikuza - 21-10-2009 at 09:46 PM
Edge condition and waxing, you're right ... DIY it's easy and quick if you do it regularly.krumly - 22-10-2009 at 07:33 PM
First to say I'm a sucky skier, but I moved to a pair of Lib Tech's with Magna-traction edges last year and rando boots and bindings, and those things
hold great on ice. We get a lot of that patchy snow w/ glare ice.
The rando boots are way lighter and more comfortable than my alpine boots were, plus I can walk in them and get traction when launching the kite
(Vibram soles). The ability to free heel shuffle is cool too if you don't want to skate.
Proper base and side bevel on the edges, keep 'em sharp, and the bases prepped.
krumlyAD72 - 22-10-2009 at 09:35 PM
What are rando boots and bindings? Is that like telemark?
Cool looking skis at lib-tech. Which ones do you have?rocfighter - 23-10-2009 at 03:17 AM
Last winter we went to NewHapshire snow shoeing and Xcountry skiing. I without failure brought a 5M foil incase the snow was bad. So when we had a
somewhat windy day I tried my skills of snowkiting. In straight lines it was fun. But I'm 6'3" and have old school skis, almost 8'long. Not any good
for turning. And stone walls in 2-3' of snow look like little hills! Needless to say using the skis I had was not an idea I should have had! I went to
the first ski shop I saw and bought a used pair of 90c snow blades. Very sharp and fun. This winter I work on my skiing skills!Feyd - 23-10-2009 at 05:25 AM
Technically all alpine skis (and even some XC) are "parabolic". That is, they all have shape or side cut even the straight skis. The ski industry
marketing geeks in the 90's (mostly at Elan Ski Co.) took the term "parabolic" to describe the SCX series of skis they were producing.
The key to what makes a good ski for kiting is the amount of sidecut which determines the natural carve radius of the ski when set on edge. For
example slalom skis have a tight carve radius (12-14m) so even if you don't pressure the edge it will turn fairly fast and tight. I know some people
that use skis with more of a slalom sidecut on thier kites but they tend to run a flat ski and don't really edge. Otherwise they would constantly be
carving up wind.
A Super G (Super Giant Slalom) will have a carve radius of greater than 41m usually. Way more suitable for kiting as most up us spend most of our
time doing long straight stretches back and forth. A strong skier can still bang out short turns on a Super G sidecut, it's just more work.
I have two sets of skis that I use here in New Hampshire. One is a DH ski 215cm (45m carve radius) with an alpine race binding . This is not an old
ski it's just a DH race ski. Most Super G and DH skis have very similar sidecuts to skis 15 or 20 years ago. The only differenc is how they are made
internally and how the dampen vibration among other things.
My other ski is a Black Diamond AT powder ski 187cm (19m radius)with an AT (alpine touring/randonnae) binding. The powder ski radius doesn't come
into play in the deep stuff if I don't try to carve it really hard.
AT gear is great for kiting in the respect that if the wind does die you can throw on some climbing skins and ski back to your launch area. Skating
back isn't always an option if the snow is deep. We kite in areas where we are often 10miles out from our launch area so "post holing" or skating
back in deep snow just won't work.
AT boots are nice and way more comfy than an alpine race boots but they don't offer the same support as a race boot so they aren't as good on clean
hard ice.
The nice thing is that you can use either boot in most AT bindings (we use Fitzche Freerides) and can skin in either.
Sorry for the long winded response. I'm just hanging out and thought I'd chime in.canuck - 23-10-2009 at 10:24 PM
I use my shaped skis more often than my "straight" skis mainly because the newer skis are a lot lighter to carry around or skate with if you have to.
I'm not as young as I used to be and need to conserve my energy (and legs) for kiting:D With more sidecut you do turn upwind a bit more when you set
your edge so your track looks like you don't know where you are going if it is gusty, but that is all part of the fun.
Longer skis give you more edge to hold you against the sideways pull of the kite and stiffer skis hold a better edge when you are going fast.
I use my snowblades when I am not as powered up, when there is not deep heavy snow, and in smaller areas where tight turns rule.krumly - 24-10-2009 at 07:13 PM
AD72 -
Feyd covered a lot of this. Randonee boots are used with randonee bindings. They have an alpine type release when locked down but you can also let
the heel loose so the boot can pivot ahead of the toe. Designed for ski mountaineering with skins, sot the boots are made to walk or climb in as well
as ski. They don't flex at the ball like tele boots and you don't ski downhill freeheel.
Winter is lake skiing in MN. We don't actually get that much snow, and if it's not bonded well, you get a lot of glare ice. I don't have skins. It's
enough just to have the option to shuffle out to the kite or just ditch the skis and walk easily, with traction, as compared to alpine boots. When the
kiting stinks, the setup works fine at the local slopes.
I'm a shopper - I picked up a pair of new old stock Park and Pipes 167cm online for I think $150. A few guys around here had used their magnatraction
snowboards for kiting on patchy snow and ice and said they worked great. I went for the skis and love them on icy crud and hardpack. You ski a
little more on the center rather than the tip and tail normally, and when you hit ice, the pressure increase on the serrations underfoot really helps
keep you from sliding downwind.
My Boots are Garmont G-Ride. A hardcore downhill skier will say they aren't stiff enough, but they are stiffer than a lot of recreational alpine boots
and a good 2-3 lbs per pair lighter. These boots work great in my Line non-release snowblade bindings too. They can belocked into 3 different lean
positions. Feyd noted most AT bindings will work with Alpine boots - not true the reverse.
The Fritschi Diamir Freeride Plus bindings are generally regarded as the premier rando binding.
krumlyAD72 - 24-10-2009 at 11:09 PM
Thank you for the info on the side cut, skis, boots and bindings. I did not think about how awkward it would be to walk back and forth to the kite
with the alpine boots and i did not know there was an alternative. treetop - 25-10-2009 at 06:13 PM
I haven't tried kite skiing yet, but from my experience on the slopes:
Snowblades = Short skis, Fast Acceleration, Lower top speed, Agile turns, Easier on the knees, Very light
Twin-tip Skis = Medium length, Medium Acceleration, High top speed, Agile turns, Easier on the knees, Light
"Straight" Skis = Long lenth, Slow Acceleration, Highest top speed, Not as Agile turns, Harder on the knees, HeavierKamikuza - 25-10-2009 at 07:57 PM
snowblades - so much like inline/ice skating that I kept doing step turns and standing on my skis don't you believe they're slow either - and they get more out of control the faster you go - less edge to aid
control. Great fun on hardpack and groomed, pretty horrid in powder.
I'd go 'parS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K- skis, or twin-tips whatever they call them, if I bought skis again with a view to kite under them ... wait till I've tried
the 'blades for my final answer though :DPBKiteboarding - 27-10-2009 at 09:20 PM
Straight long for speed parabolic for carving playing around..
I like the parabolic skis for carving, freestyle also on a snowboard...
Also the Aboards Kite specific Snowboard are Parabolic Twintips for that reason.
although I don't like the idea of
being twisted around ...