Power Kite Forum - Help with a strop ?

Help with a strop ?

OllieN - 21-10-2009 at 05:32 PM

HEY ,

Atm im flying my 5.6m twister 2 with no harness which in winds above 10mph gives my arm sockets a testing and i find i have to kill the kite constantly for a break. SOOOOO im gonna get myself a strop, now ive donea bit of research and i understand how the strop connects to the handles, and i understand that i could use a caribinha climbing thingy to connect it to a simply harness or back strap. BUT wat i dont understand is what i can do to kill the kite if i get into trouble, because surely using a strop and harness it kinda cuts out kitekillers becaus there not long enough.

so what does everyone else use to kill the kite or use as a saftey system .

Thanks in advance

-Ollie

acampbell - 21-10-2009 at 05:49 PM

Heh heh, this will stir the pot.

You can use kite killers for sure with a strop, but it means un-hooking first before you deploy. The fact is, when you use a strop with a harness, the moment you need to dump the kite the most, the more difficult it is to get it out of the hook. The solution....

Run the strop through a pulley that is connected to the harness with a quick release, such as a Wichard 2673.

Build a quick release in to the strop itself, up near the handle on one end. Bladerunner here has done this and inspired me to create a version of my own that I will test soon and publish if it works.

Or simply be very careful about the conditions you fly in and avoid gusty winds so that you are using the strop for the desired stress relief but can still dump the kite. But then you have to know that there remains some element of risk, even if you know the kite well and are blessed with clean consistent winds.

OllieN - 21-10-2009 at 05:59 PM

ahh kk thanks. but i was wondering if the killers would be long enough because if one of the handles is too far away because im turning or something wont the kite killer become taught and therefore killing the kite without me wanting to. i hope that made sence.

oh and is this a saftey system realease for the strop . its english but so am i lol . http://www.powerkiteshop.com/accessories/mauimagichandlepass...

kteguru - 21-10-2009 at 06:01 PM

Most people I would have to say simply reach out and grab the bottom of the handles in the event things go upside down. That being said, it's helpful to have reached the point where your confident enough in your abilities that you won't be wrong side up to begin with. You can wear kite killers while using a strop. The problem that arises is that you need to pull in on the handles to release the strop in order to let go of the handles. Doing so is easier said than done when your upside down or getting dragged across the sand while the kite's looping through the middle of the window. Generally easier to just reach out and grab the brakes if necessary.
Just my 2 cents. I'm sure others will chime in.

furbowski - 21-10-2009 at 06:09 PM

my 2 cents... give the strop a try, see how it works for you. You'll need the skill at some point (buggy? skis?), but for me a strop is no good when flying a big jump kite static. If I need a rest, I land the kite.

by the way, IDK if "safety system" is the right word to use... something like "potential escape from angry kite" sounds more like the reality of the situation to me...

Kamikuza - 21-10-2009 at 06:10 PM

If you hook the strop through a carabinha, you won't be able to unhook easily :no:

dangerous

That link is for a depower bar's safety leash ... not suitable, I think ...

When you use a strop, you need to use a harness of some sort too.
The connection between the harness and strop can be as simple as a regular spreader bar or have something fancy like a pulley. But you need some way to eject the kite in the event that you get over-powered and can't unhook from the pulley etc. which is what Angus (acampbell) is describing - a pulley on a line with a safety leash to a harness ...

IMO using KKs with a strop and harness is not the best idea, especially if you like to ride with one hand on the handles ... perhaps a regular leash to a brake line?

snobdr - 21-10-2009 at 06:22 PM

There has to be an eject button. Dont depend on your strength to get unhooked when getting dragged because it wont happen. The kite is producing much more pull then you can.
What is a good release setup worth? What Would most of you pay for a good release setup?

dylanj423 - 21-10-2009 at 06:27 PM

the link you posted is for a kite leash quick release, i think.... make sure of anything before you totally rely on it...

i use kite killers all the time, included being stropped in in my buggy... i have only REALLY wanted out of my strop one time that i can think of, and it was difficult... there is a lot of power required to get out of one of those things....

for static flying it isnt really necessary, for buggying, it certainly is... if you dont need to do it, dont do it, if you want to learn, cool, but do it safely.... and take it in small steps to be safe...

stetson05 - 21-10-2009 at 06:44 PM

If you search the forum for a wichard I think you will find a lot of info. Make sure you make the time period on the search go back for a while. I have constructed several do it yourself projects for kiting. None of them have worked as well as something specifically designed and tested for their specific application. I made a quick release but it doesn't work as well or reliability under load like a wichard. IMO if you are at all worried, buy a wichard and practice with it. Oh, and don't fly alone hooked in until you are comfortable with it. I have received some very desperately needed help from the friends I fly with on my first couple flights hooked in.

macboy - 21-10-2009 at 06:59 PM

I think I even saw someone selling a Wichard in the For Sale section not long ago - maybe it's still around. I've got one and have hung from the rafters to test it and it opened up and ejected me like I was never connected to begin with. Super smooth. Steer clear of the "pin release" variety.

dave brown - 21-10-2009 at 07:14 PM

Get a PL backstrap
Cheap and easy to get out of.

Bladerunner - 21-10-2009 at 07:27 PM

Slingshot's surefire hammerhead and the one on my Liquid force spreader have a release. It allows the hammer head to rotate away with a push of the button. This frees up the strop.

Pretty much what Snobdr was looking for, I think ?

acampbell - 21-10-2009 at 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dave brown
Get a PL backstrap
Cheap and easy to get out of.

Yes but it has to pass by your neck when you get out of it. This is an artifact of the 90's and I'm surprised it is still offered by PL. I am not a fan.

indigo_wolf - 21-10-2009 at 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by acampbell
Run the strop through a pulley that is connected to the harness with a quick release, such as a Wichard 2673.

Build a quick release in to the strop itself, up near the handle on one end. Bladerunner here has done this and inspired me to create a version of my own that I will test soon and publish if it works.

Angus:
A quick question...

On your site, you sell a Kite Leash Pro w/ Handle-pass System, Peter Lynn

Is there a separate SKU to get the the handle pass strap without the leash? Under the vinyl tubing the strap is Dyneema and it's meant to be trimmed to be trimmed to fit. Could this be used as a strop with the QR already built it. It seems like it would be cheaper than the Wichard... cheaper still if you can buy it without the leash.

Likewise, something may be possible with the HQ Control Bar Harness Strap

which also has a built-in QR.

However, this might be a case where it is easier to subtract length (from something that was designed to be trimmed)than add length, depending on how easy it is to retrofit a connecting piece of Amsteel or Dyneema to the endpoint of the HQ strap (if needed, depending on what the stock length is).

ATB,
Sam

Help with a strop

gurnard - 22-10-2009 at 12:59 AM

I have been thinking about something similar myself, moving up to using a strop and harness.

I looked at the harness having a quick release would make me feel safer. This looks like a potential candidate, from the same site that you linked to OllieN

QR Harness

I have not tried this harness so do not know if it is any good but it has this system which sounds like a good solution to me:

Quote:

# Quick release Clickerbar: 100% Safe and Easy to Use. Mystic's patent pending Clicker Bar is super safe and so easy to use, you can get out on the water even faster. Just as the seatbelt in your car, you can hear the loud click, which gives you the confidence that it is secure.

tobytobsen - 22-10-2009 at 01:11 AM

I think using the HQ Control Bar Harness Strap would be a good solution for you (in case you can mount these good enough to your handles.)

I use the whole HQ Control bar including this Strap. However, I always managed to get out of it without using the security, but its good to know that its there. Specially when you get dragged in the sand it always was way easier to pull the bar to the belly and get out, then trying to reach for the security.

But i can imagine that this is different when using handles. (When the strap twists)

Keep in mind that the strap is plastic tubed, so its pretty rigid.

Maven454 - 22-10-2009 at 03:12 AM

I would have guessed that the HQ Control Bar Harness Strap might be too short, but I've never used a strop and I didn't use the HQ Control Bar Harness Strap that was on my HQ Scout bar.

Bladerunner - 22-10-2009 at 05:38 AM

I hand made little Q.R.'s like the one on the strop above using a cotter pin and a bit of plastic tube.

It works O.K. but shortens thhe slide on the one side.

acampbell - 23-10-2009 at 09:04 AM

Sam
Sorry, been on the road this week at a training class. I do not have a separate SKU for the handle-pass strap with QR, and I think the HQ strap would be too short and too stiff.
I will try my little home brew kit this weekend an post photos if it works. I used the pin and from an old HQ strap (the one you broke, Toby) and some tubing, but a PL top hat would work, too.

(Sam, your hoodies arrive today)

snobdr - 23-10-2009 at 09:19 AM

What would you pay for a good strop setup? I might look into putting together a nice setup.

B-Roc - 23-10-2009 at 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by acampbell
I think the HQ strap would be too short and too stiff.

(Sam, your hoodies arrive today)

Totally agree with that statement. Can't see the bar strap working all that good with handles and a hammerhead spreader bar. You just need to tilt a bar so a stiff strap can work but handles often need to be moved and tilted to apply brake tension. I like my straps a little more frictionless than a shielded piece of cord.

indigo_wolf - 23-10-2009 at 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by acampbell
I do not have a separate SKU for the handle-pass strap with QR, and I think the HQ strap would be too short and too stiff.

Darn on the SKU. Hmmmm... I realized the HQ CBH Strap would be too stiff. However, I expected you would be able to skin the vinyl off the same way that you would on the Peter Lynn Handle Pass Strap, when you are adjusting the length.

As to shortness, yes.... realized that it would be too short (hence the comment about "depending on how easy it is to retrofit a connecting piece of Amsteel or Dyneema to the endpoint of the HQ strap". The end pieces are the important parts here.

Quote:

Originally posted by acampbell
(Sam, your hoodies arrive today)

:wee: :singing: :singing: :singing: :singing: :wee:

<* Need a "whistle a happy tune" emoticon *>

Just doesn't take too much to make me happy somedays...

Temperture dropped through the floor since yesterday.... coincidence? I think not. :wink2:

Of course, that means rain tomorrow. Hope fields are dry by Sunday.

ATB,
Sam

Maven454 - 23-10-2009 at 10:29 AM

Sorry wolf, I did indeed miss the comment about replacing the line with a different length.

acampbell - 23-10-2009 at 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by indigo_wolf

Quote:

Originally posted by acampbell
I do not have a separate SKU for the handle-pass strap with QR, and I think the HQ strap would be too short and too stiff.

Quote:

Originally posted by acampbell
(Sam, your hoodies arrive today)

yeah I did not read deep enough on that. Actually I think the HQ option would work. And it may be long enough at 23" handle to handle with only a couple of inches lost to the QR. Because the end loops meant for the control bar would go around the handles, you don't waste the space normally used by the leaders on the handles, to the QR mechanism will stay out of the way for the most part.

And the sewn splices eye end of the strap, once you cut the vinyl tubing off, will fly through a pulley real nice.

I may have to sacrifice one to R&D this weekend.

snobdr - 23-10-2009 at 01:42 PM

Hello??????

tobytobsen - 23-10-2009 at 04:12 PM

Hello snobr.

snobdr - 24-10-2009 at 07:54 AM

No one seems to be interested in a complete quaility setup to use.

B-Roc - 24-10-2009 at 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by snobdr
No one seems to be interested in a complete quaility setup to use.

Well mine have mostly cost just a few bucks as I use climbing rope or rope I buy at the local mariner so I'm not sure what you really had in mind but if you can put something together do so and post it up. Hard to tell you what I think I'd pay for something I've never seen.

And FWIW, I don't use a cut away strop or a snap shackle. I have always, only used a rope attached to my handles and my hammerhead spreader bar and I go for the handle bottoms if in trouble (I also tend to fly underpowered and have never wished to have a quick release - yet).

I'd love to see your idea if its good and unique, I'm just not sure how much more inventing you can do to this wheel :puzzled:

indigo_wolf - 24-10-2009 at 08:43 AM

Hard to determine a price without knowing the build details. I would put a different price on a strop made of Dyneema, Amsteel, or Amsteel Blue. Differences in strop diameter would also entail different pricing.

Same thing with the safeties.... QR on one side or both? Are all metal portions captured? Are all the metal components stainless?

The questions you posed was similar to "How much would you pay for a car?"

ATB,
Sam

snobdr - 24-10-2009 at 09:07 AM

Lets hear what you guys want and i might work on something.
What rope would u want?
Would you want the release at the handles or at the harness?
I would use stainless hardware. System would also have pully included.
How would u want it to attach to handles?
Any other ideas?

krumly - 24-10-2009 at 06:43 PM

Why not a snatch block (has cheeks that open) that runs along the strop, and then the Wichard 2673 releases from that? You lose a pulley with the kite if you eject, but that's what it's there for. And you lose nothing in the useful strop length.

You do have to remember to open the snatch block if you want to fly unhooked - if you have that block flopping around on the strop, it'll hit you good and hard.

krumly

Bladerunner - 25-10-2009 at 01:14 PM

Here is the link I used to make my little Q.R."s
http://kiteboarderz.piczo.com/projects?cr=6&linkvar=0000...