Hope I can tap into your collective knowledge to help me with some biased or unbiased opinion on a new kite.
Im just past the beginner stage, riding upwind, not jumping, and its a close call whether I walk back up the beach or not, im getting better.
I am 102kg + gear.
As i promised myself some new gear when I got to this stage its time to go shopping.
I was given a venom 19 an 06 I think, to learn on, this was great as I got through all the stages of getting comfortable, learning to put the board on
and getting ready to waterstart. Typically in this phase the winds were quite light so I felt comfortable, so anything from 6 knts to about 12 was my
learning comfort level.
I have a big board, 146 x 46.5 naish as well and that helped.
So Venom got me to the waterstart stage and up on the board, but then i couldnt keep going with it, no power to keep me up. This was technique I guess
and probably too low a wind. On the same day a friend of mine lent me a waroo pro 13 and i went out on that in the same wind and with out knowing the
kite I was able to keep going for some distance. Yahoo.
So I was instantly disappointed in the venom. I then went through all the frustration of only being able to waterstart 1 way properly and kept falling
off the back trying the other way. Out came the venom again and I was able to take the time to get the technique sorted. However the power to keep
going only came from the waroo.
So I brought the 07 waroo and have progressed a bit further.
The dilemma is I really like the arcs, they look great and have so much promise untapped and im a bit cheesed off that I couldnt get the technique
sorted to use it. its very frustrating reading about all the arc lovers here and I cant "do it". I think my tech nique must be crap and the waroo just
glosses over it, which upsets me, because i want to be a good flyer
I cant really afford to many kites so I want to buy max 2 kites to cover my development.
I have been offered a new synergy 19 with zero7 bar by the shop. Obviously going out before the charger. Its $1000us all up.
Given the above story, is this so much a better kite and what type of windrange can i use it with?.
I am also a bit of a girl really, because i like speed, but not really keen on massive jumps and twisting my body in contortions, i am too old for
that. [maybe] so a kite that is more traction than lift.
The alternative is to leave the arc for ever and get a 2010 waroo 13, which seems to have a massive wind range.
I kite in two locations, coastal on the weekend, which is definitely a seabreeze location and steady 12- 18kts, I need to drag out a bit on this
location as the wind is stronger just after the break for some reason. I found the venom great for this [walking out and seting up].
And during the week due to work commitments its an inner harbor location, but the prevailing wind comes overland then water, so its a bit gusty, at
the moment today the bargraph says min 5 gusting 25 and averaging 13knts, so i do freak out a bit if the kite is to big, but sink like a stone in the
gusts.
the beach is just drop in and go, the inner harbour is quite a muddy walk to the water at times, so I constantly freak out about horror tales of
lofting and what not so the Venom was quite good to wander off to the waters
edge and then get going.
So any advice would be awesome, I really want the ultimate kite - haul my butt up n 8 knts and survive until its 28knts. Anything over that and im
definitely not bothering to go kiteing
And if you have any brands you think are worth a look please let me know so I can check them out.
Cheers
MikeMaven454 - 3-11-2009 at 01:40 PM
The only advice I can provide at this point is that there are massive improvements in the Synergy over the Venom I. Others will no doubt be able to
offer you more and more useful advice.
Welcome to PKF.snobdr - 3-11-2009 at 02:24 PM
I seem to be the black sheep on this forum but one of the few LEI riders.
My advice stick with the Waroo if you dont mind pumping. But a 13M isnt going to get you going in sub 12 winds unless you have a big board(surfboard).
There is a big difference in the older PL and the newer PL kites but they are not known for their light wind ability.
Really theres only one kite for light winds and thats flysurfer speed but they arnt cheap.thelaserman - 3-11-2009 at 03:14 PM
i too am a LEI rider, I currently own a 2009 naish cult 15m and a 2009 naish helix 9. these kites pretty much cover the range for me i weigh 235. i
ride a litewave wing and a nobile 555 134. i can ride upwind at 11 kts. i love those kites, and just ordered my 2010's
that being said. I own (for a few more days traded for a psycho2 7m) venom 2 19m. And i just bought a speed 2 deluxe 19.
I love my naishs. The plynn was a fun kite, but just turned too slow and didnt have the low end of my 15 lei.
this year i am going with 2010 naish helix 9 and 12m and the speed 2 delux 19.
i am getting rid of the 15 because i am trying to squeeze in a few more days. i figure those 9-10kt days i can now get in the water.
if you are not looking for extreme low then lei is it. I love them.
ps my 2009's are for sale 1100 each perfect condition.M_Waterman - 3-11-2009 at 03:15 PM
Thanks snobdr,
I dont mind pumping, what size surfboard do you recommend?, its probably cheaper to get 1 kite and a two boards. I have read a few posts on the foil
LEI debate, I have found that the LEI performs better for me, but it frustrates me because obviously the bow kite glosses over the fact that
technically im not on to it.M_Waterman - 3-11-2009 at 03:18 PM
Thanks laserman, appreciate your comments, I will have a look at Naish a bit closer.burritobandit - 3-11-2009 at 03:21 PM
Personally, I would get a used kite or kites in good condition over a new kite. For the price of one new kite you could get yourself a two or even 3
kite quiver.
If you're thinking about an LEI, given your weight and the wind ranges you mentioned I'd recommend a 15m,17m,or even 19m LEI. A 19m might sound
extreme, but they do have quite a bit of range. If you're concerned with having to pump a kite that big, buy a mattress inflator to get the majority
of the air in there, then finish the rest off with your pump. A buddy of mine does this and we give him so much crap but hey, he's on the water
before we are. I personally use pumping as a way to get the blood flowing for stretching.
Also if you're typically riding in 6-12knots, that's Flysurfer territory. Big Flysurfer Speeds and SilverArrows excel in those winds.snobdr - 3-11-2009 at 03:24 PM
Dont be frustrated because of the PL. They just do not perform in light wind. You were on an older kite and not in the sweet spot for the kite. The
LEI dosent gloss over, it just makes it easier. You will learn more riding then fighting with it.
For a surfboard i would say maybe right in the 6ft range. Really depends on what kite your using with it.
I wouldnt go any bigger then 16M on an LEI, once you get into bigger kites they dont perform any better because of their weight. They are also slower
turning.
I have a 20M and it dosent get me out any more then my 16M.
A smaller kite is quicker and lighter. You can work it more to make power you just need a big board to keep you afloat.lad - 3-11-2009 at 03:52 PM
Inflating is a moot point for LEI or ARCs if you get one of those Coleman style portable inflators used for air-beds. I saw one guy on the beach using
one w/ a hose into his LEI. He said once it fills the kite up, you only need 6 strokes on the kite pump to max it out.M_Waterman - 3-11-2009 at 03:52 PM
Thanks for the comments, just to clarify, I have given up riding in anything less than 12, only went out in that range when I was learning. Quickly
learnt that its a happening thing above 12 for me. So I was looking for that kite that works 12 to 28, when I looked at the Waroo 2010 it more or less
says that is its range for a 75kg person. Thats why I was interested in the synergy 19 as a better performing kite these days, but it seems to top
out in the windrange stake at 22knts which seems quite narrow range to me.
On the surfboard thing, I was given an old wipika directional 225 which is huge, is this just old school and not what you call a surfboard/
On the used debate, I have a garage full of other peoples used stuff to learn on, but typically its in there because others didnt want it no more. So
I thought I would treat myself to the experiences of others and buy something for me for next 3 years.
The thought of 16metre LEI's just seem to darn big for me, I tried a cabrinha 16 switchblade 1, but it was massive and I seemed to catch it on every
darn tree and overhang that was possible to do so as i trudged along. The bar was a pulley so it felt like turning a tractor.
Once again thanks for the input its helpful for me
cheers
Mikeburritobandit - 3-11-2009 at 04:17 PM
I have been using my 15m a LOT lately in winds from 12 to 22mph. I only weigh 150lbs but that is a ton of range for that kite regardless. One thing
to consider on a slow-turning bigger kite is moving your steering lines up the rear knots. I used to have my steering lines connected to the 2nd to
the last knot (furthest from the kite) and I've recently started hooking them up to the next knot up, and it's made a big difference in the turning
rate of the kite. The only trade off is possibly backstalling the kite. To negate that, just use the sheeting straps to keep the kite properly
trimmed to where the kite won't backstall.
My bar doesn't have any pulleys, btw. I am using a 2008 Best Bar on all my 2007 kites and it's worked out great. I forgot which year the Cabrinha
bars had the 2to1 system as optional, but you might want to research that bar to see if you can switch to the 1to1 setup.AD72 - 3-11-2009 at 10:41 PM
The answer is 42PHREERIDER - 4-11-2009 at 06:37 AM
trying to learn in light air is tuff. requires tedious balance, a good board and smooth kite skills. 19m venom is a big slow kite . it my launch
you to start but with out aggressive kite work and relaxed board control, getting it all hooked up is very hard when you are first learning.
i was about your same size and learned on lei16m (sle) . and realized it was much easier in 15mph+ anything less was out of reach. 14-16m bow is
gonna be super easy and fun and help you progress. at your size being over powered a little is good thing. It 'll give more confidence on the
water and allow board skills to develop.PBKiteboarding - 4-11-2009 at 09:33 AM
Flysurfer Speed 3 12m even higher top end now might do exactly what you want and probably the
biggest range you can get. Speed 12m is about the power of a 14m SLE... and better low end.
Keep trying a variety of kites that's the way to find out what you'll really LOVE....snobdr - 4-11-2009 at 09:54 AM
Flysurfer is a darn nice kite.......till you look at the pricebigkahuna - 4-11-2009 at 10:15 AM
I haven't read all the posts, so my apologies if I repeat anything someone else has said. I wanted to respond though as I am also a heavy weight (I
weigh about 110 kg) and used to fly a Venom 19 and now fly Waroos and Bularoos. A couple of generic heavy weight bits of advice:
1. As well intentioned as it may be, ignore any advice given regarding kite performance and size from people who aren't our weight. Body weight
makes a huge difference, more so than most people imagine.
2. Someone elses big board will be your small board. Look at the boards in my sig, both are big (monsters even) by most people's standards. I use
these boards in everything from 12 mph to 35 mph. The advantage that a bigger board gives you is an extended range for your kites. Notice that one
board is shorter and wider (light winds, flat conditions) and the other is longer and narrower (strong winds, big surf, choppy conditions). Plus,
buying two boards is often cheaper than buying two kites.
3. Peter Lynn's are great, I love them and will probably get another one in the near future, but they suck in light winds. The Venom 19 is about the
equivalent (bottom end wise) of a 15 m SLE (less bottom end than my Bularoo 16). If you want to use a PL, use it for the top end of your quiver.
4. I know everyone raves about Flysurfers, and you can't knock their construction, I've owned two (a Titan 15.5 and Speed II 19), but they flat out
suck in gusty winds. The winds where I used to kite (Hawaii) were just too gusty for them, but now that I've moved to the OBX (we get some nice,
smooth winds here) I might give them another go.
5. Look at the quiver in my sig. If I were to pick only two that would cover 90% of the wind speeds here, it would be the Bularoo 16 and 10. Both
are perfect for me in over 15 mph up to 35 mph. But the hands down best light wind kite I've flown is that Waroo 20m. There may be better kites out
there, but I paid $500 for it 2 years ago and it was the best investment I've ever made. That kite has really extended my wind range and I'm able to
fly it in 12 - 20 mph (gusting to 25 mph) comfortably.PBKiteboarding - 4-11-2009 at 09:41 PM
I find I use Speed when gusty to... not like Hawaii but we get gusty winds all the time...
Since when gusty the lulls are low on med and lighter winds and only the Flysurfers stay in the air...
On some of those lulls sub 8mph...
Also some kiters even heavier want to be on a smaller board, say like a Spleene Rip 138 so they really need power of a big kite...
Big.... Keep me update if you plan on the new Speed 3... Great kite...
I'm on it here in some lighter stuff... on the Flydoor 155.. XL 170 Standing by..
I have lots of customers 200+ and they need the power like Big says... and I use a 19m and flydoor XL sometimes too even at 150...
See tells it all... Nothing beats the 19m even the SP2 like this.... and for sure flat rocker boards like the Spleen Door 164 or Flydoor 170 and 2
board...
I used to fly a 19.5 LEI and 22.5m Lei.. never going back now.... Hooked on Speeds...
Lots can be done on a 159 164.....
Here's a 185lbs customer... Magic...
How about this..? I let him use my 19m at the time... Kiting for a year... his first time on the Speed 19m... when LEI's are dropping... just too
heavy... He ended up getting an SP2 from me and became his most used kite, then he just upgraded to an SP3.
On LIE's the New Ozone Zephyr is getting great reviews and also the Ocean Rodeo Rise 16m with Venturi Technology that reduces back stall in lighter
winds and shorter bar throw duse to vents... Ocean Rodeo has the Jet flaps in common with Flysurfer...
I know you mean well PBK, but weighing 185 lbs is absolutely nothing like weighing 230 lbs. I typically fly a kite that is 1.5x the size of guys that
weight. Also a 135 cm board is absolutely the wrong board for a heavyweight. I've ridden a 135 and for my weight there is no advantage whatsoever
over a board the size he's currently riding. I've been kiting for 8 years now and still get advice from well meaning "lightweights" who think that
because they've found the magic numbers for themselves can predict what might work for me. I've learned, the hard way, that as well meaning as the
advice is it is invariably 100% wrong.
Also, if I were to try another Flysurfer, it wouldn't be a Speed, but rather a low AR like maybe a Pulse 2 or whatever comes out next. I had a Speed
2 19 and wasn't impressed at all. Sorry if that ruffles the feathers of all the FS fans out there, but ask (correction, I got it from Ted Bautista),
I bought a S2-19 and ended up selling it a couple months later. For my money, weight, kiting style and conditions, that Waroo 20m has been hands down
the best big kite I've flown.
I don't sell kites, nor do I have anything to gain by sharing my advice. I'm just trying to share some hard learned lessons with a fellow
heavyweight.
EDIT: I just looked and I guess Best doesn't even make a kite that big anymore. Shame, my 20 is an awesome kite, and did I mention I got it new for
$500? :wee:M_Waterman - 5-11-2009 at 02:20 AM
yep have put some "deep thought" in to the meaning of life. Its this kiting bug, it drives you nuts.
The trouble with the internet is that you can research quite easily, but when you start you usually find that the hype wording is generated by the
manufacturer, picked up and distributed word for glossy word on all the websites which sell and review the kites for the customer. So having got sick
of the trawling through the shop sites and magazines, [i can recite the spiel in my sleep - it is better just to ask the experience of those that
have done it.
Big Kahuna has hit the nail on the head with the fact that it is hard to offer advice to a heavyweight if your not one yourself. I have learnt that
what works for an 85 kg person is not going to help me much at 105kg. This is a 20kg difference between me and the 185 guy as compared to 10kg between
the 185 guy and the hypothetical 75kg.
So I need to learn a different way of doing it. If you dont believe me all you industry 75kg flyers strap 66lbs to your butt [30kg] and see how your
water start goes, its not the same.
I appreciate all the comments so far - thanks for your time. Awesome.
The flysurfers are just to expensive, so i cant consider them and to be honest, they seem to be overly fussy for what they deliver, talk of mixers and
abc lines etc are just not me.
Im a lazy flyer in a sense and also pragmatic, i need 12 kts to get riding consistently and want to ride safely in control in max 28kts with the odd
gust up to 30 odd. Im 105kg [230lbs, 6ft 2" ] i have good fitness and really enjoy the sensation kiting gives me. The only trouble is the limited
budget, limited time, and the need to work all this in around the family .
I would really like to get the right combination of board and kite to max out my budget and take advantange of conditions 80% of the time. I only am
interested in water based activities so quite specific I guess.
The bug bear and the itch is, I really want to use an arc properly out of a sense of paying my dues to the technicalities of the sport, but will
happily walk away if the consensus says you cant make it work. So i can rest in peace on the issue.
The solution seems to be focussed on correct board selection, i have tried and own a naish haze xl which is plenty big enough, but when i used the
venom 19 I always felt i was catching up to the kite and robbing it pulling potential, so if you have any tips on overcoming that it would be great.
Once again thanks for your replies. appreciated
cheers
Mike
edit,
yes Big - the ozone zephyr [and the cabrinha] seems to be one of the very rare choice for big inflatos. The kites mentioned by best are just not
available, so it seems it even more important to get a good kite board combobigkahuna - 5-11-2009 at 02:42 AM
Mike,
What sort of conditions do you typically kite in? Waves? Chop? Flat water? Is there any current that you need to deal with? I'm not familiar with
the Naish boards, but if you look at the two boards in my quiver that'll give you some idea what dimensions work for me. If I had to have just one
board, the CrazyFly would be it. It's just the right combination of flex, rocker and dimensions that work 95% of the time for me. A surfboard would
also work, but doing the "switch stance dance" is something I've never been able to master. If you go with a surfboard, remember the same size rules
apply. I started 8 or 9 years ago before twin tips were popular with a 7'6" surfboard and that seemed about right for me.
Keep an eye out for a used Waroo 20m. I saw an 06 on iKitesurf.com for $400, mine is an 07. I'm not saying it's the only big kite to consider, but
having flown it for almost 2 years now I know it's a great kite and I've flown a bunch of big kites.
BigKPBKiteboarding - 5-11-2009 at 08:07 AM
I have another customer who his 250 that was very frustrated
with his 16m and even with a door 64... In their spot they set up
on the grass and had to jump into the water from a 6ft high
break wall holding their boards... he then got a 19m speed
for those lighter day and was going upwind on his 7th day of
kiting... We get pretty light winds here...
If they can't stay upwind in that spot they have roll up their
lines in the water on any kite, so it worked for him because
walking upwind was not an option.... Had to have the Power.
Now that would make a great vid...
Another guys 270 Just got a Flydoor XL but still only has a 16m...
A 19m Speed would be about the power of a 22m SLE... but of
course will stay in the air in major lulls and has longer
sustained power with power stroke... Downstroke and up Stoke....
There is a German vid showing guys all over 200 230... Will try to find it...
More stories...
The more kites you can try better many haven't tried certain kite and won't know the different...
In the end in the right conditions the most powerful kite keeps
you upwind the best considering you're on the same board.
It's the amount of sustained average overall tension on the
lines that does it... simple stuff really... More power kite, more
tension... bigger board more tension...bigkahuna - 5-11-2009 at 08:19 AM
PBK - I read all the stories about how great the Speed II 19 was and plunked down the change to buy one. I was on the other side of Lake Erie at the
time (Ashtabula) and needed something for the lousy wind they get. Winds were 12 gusting 15 and the S2-19 didn't want to stay in the air. To its
credit, it was a cinch to relaunch, but any time the wind lulled, the kite started to fall to one side, the tip would curl and down it came. No
matter how hard I tried to turn the kite to keep it up in the air, it just wouldn't respond. That same day, out of pure frustration I put up my Venom
19 and gave it a go. I barely had enough power to get on the board, which is typical for the V19 in winds under 15 mph, but at least it didn't fall
out of the sky.
I'm not saying the Speeds suck, just that I plunked down the change for a new one, gave it several tries in conditions that I was told it would excel
in and was majorly disappointed. Fortunately there was someone else who wanted it and I didn't loose too much money on the deal.
On the other hand, my $500 Waroo 20m has been a dream come true. It sucks to pump up that puppy, but in 12-15 mph winds I've been very happy with it.
Oh, and did I mention I only paid $500 for it? :wee:
Again, I've got absolutely nothing to gain by sharing my experiences and opinions. I don't rep any brands, nor do I sell kites for a living. I'm
just a big guy who's spent a lot more $$ on this sport than I should have. ragden - 5-11-2009 at 08:24 AM
Interesting to read the debates in light wind conditions. Both stories have merits, but it comes down to what works best for you. I have a S3 and I
love it. I know guys who have big LEIs and love them. Its all a matter of preference, and what works best for you. We can all agree that one kite isnt
going to suit everyone. Its just the way it is. I'm glad you found the big LEIs work for you BigKahuna. Thats awesome. For M_Waterman, I'd say take
out both kites and see what works for you. If you can get a demo of either, that would be some time very well spent.
If you cant find a demo, and money is tight, go for the LEIs. Maybe someday you will be able to try a S3 and see how you like it. Then make the
decision on whether to spend the money for it. bigkahuna - 5-11-2009 at 08:26 AM
@ragden - Yup, I agree 100%. I'm just trying to add "balance" to the hype that gets spread by people who make a living on this stuff.PBKiteboarding - 5-11-2009 at 08:37 AM
What happens is that the kite likes to fly close to the edge of
the window... (Kites that fly close to the edge go upwind well)
and when you leave it the it looses it's apparent
wind... just turn it... before that happens... or sign like any kite...
We do it all the
time... Just doing that will make it stay in air in light stuff more
than any other kite out there.... I always help my customers
so that's
why there are successful in flying it... and so far no one has
sold their SP2 19 except to get the SP3 which is even easier
to fly than the SP2... I also Offer PASA lessons to guys that
get the Speed... get em going even faster...
What do we do when we fly a trainer foil on the beach in really
light winds? When it gets to the edge of the window. Keep
tension on the lines... Turn it before it gets there...
But again... there are so many kites to choose from an we'll
all have out preferences... and fun factor...
Every kite has it's pros and cons, just the Pros have to outweigh the cons...
And for sure Speeds are pricier and budget makes a
difference. A big 20m Lei will pull better that a 14...
so more kiting days either way... and that's a good thing..
Quote:
PBK - I read all the stories about how great the Speed II 19 was and plunked down the change to buy one. I was on the other side of Lake Erie at the
time (Ashtabula) and needed something for the lousy wind they get. Winds were 12 gusting
15 and the S2-19 didn't want to stay in the air.
bigkahuna - 5-11-2009 at 09:12 AM
@PBK - Yup, that's what I tried to do. The kite wouldn't turn. Turned the bar 90 degrees and the kite just sat there. Grabbed a foot of outside
line and barely coaxed it to turn. I'm not talking about winds under 10 mph (and I always measure wind speed with my handy little meter) but on that
day the wind was (measured) 12-15 mph. I've been flying kites for about 9 years, I've flown tons of LEI's, Arcs, several open cell foils, an old
F-One water foil and have owned two FS (a Titan 15.5 and S2-19). The irony is that on that same day, moments later, I put up my Venom 19 (not a light
wind kite) and it flew, didn't have much power, certainly not enough to get me going, but it stayed up in the air, unattended.
I'm not saying that Flysurfers or Speeds are crap. But I am saying that in my personal, hands on experience, they do not always live up to the hype
that people who make a living selling them claim.PBKiteboarding - 5-11-2009 at 10:01 AM
I know you mean... real stuff... and I see it too and help
guys...1 but how about also if someone else may love it... just saying try OK I love it... can you tell...
Wish I were there to help solve what happened... I do that here with guys...
That's a good wind 12-15m...
I only mean the best especially for heavier guys...
Maybe try it again... one day... Make sure whoever you get it from will help you..info solving...
I have to say from what I know here... so I know what you mean...
We all have out experiences... I'll give another of mine.
One day I went to my fav spot in summer (5min). All I had was my 19.5 22.5m LEI for light stuff...
When I got there I know it would be a hot doming day... iffi...
I was pumping my 22.5 knowing it was iffi and made it that much harder to pump
I was dripping sweat on the LE... and of course it died even more as I finished. I knew it would drop.
So I said...0*&*^* and rove 3 hours north and had a good 13m day...
(I hate to drive when our spot is so nice. I didn't know about Flysurfer at the time.
I flew Ozone Foils all winter for years. So I knew about foils at the edge (and even learning kite loops - Another Solve)
and found that foil even help me with the visual hint of tension on the lines,
and apparent wind issues...
Then a year later, I was on kiteforum and a guy that lives here
was on a thread on the speeds... I remember him learning on his 17m
when the wind was coming over the trees... didin't look good....
Just too offshore for any kite... pushing it then....
He was going to get a 19m SP2..he's 200.. Hmmm there were none here
So I wanted out of that sweat situation... I started selling then
and got his SP 19m SA (He still has it) and my White SP 19m SA.
We are usually about 20-30 kiters on a good day but only 2 on this day...
Another one of those otherwise (memory sweating dripping pumping) It gets easier in time... Must be, I'm kiting with one hand holding the camera.
I sell both and still fly both LEI and Foils... I help plan it out
so that if a guy plans to get a SP 19m at some point I say
maybe don't go bigger than a 12m or 14m LEI since it's easy to
go from a 14mt o a 19m I go from a 12 to the 19m myself...
I don't want a customer to come back and say... Why did
you sell me a 17m LEI when now I need a 19m... so
Sometimes it's trickier selling kites... You can't leave guys
out in the cold...
If I have a customer walking the beach on a 17m and it's dropping
and he sees another customer flying a 19m staying upwind
Hmmm... He may say why didn't you tell me about that 19m...
But it depends on the spot too...
So you see... I had 3 bad summer and 2 great ones...snobdr - 5-11-2009 at 03:22 PM
Ive had experence with bigger LEIs and really anytging over 16 just isnt worth it. Last winter i went side by side with a 20 waroo and i was rocking a
12m rebel. The waroo was a big heavy slow turing turd. The guy that was riding it even said he wish he didnt buy it. My first big kite was a 21 yarga
and same deal. Big and heavy. Didnt get me out in any lighter wind then my 16 bfk. No matter what your not going to be rocking in anything under 15 or
so anyway so i would just look for bigger board. Its much easier to ride a big board with a nimble kite then try to get power from a huge heavy kite
that wont climb because its heavy and inefficent.bigkahuna - 5-11-2009 at 03:44 PM
Here we go, off to war with some lightweights...
@snobdr - what do you weigh? If it's under 230 you don't count. I go out with guys who weigh 170-180 all the time and they're on a 12 and I'm on my
20. It's simple physics, I weigh 30% more than they do so I will need at least 30% more kite surface area to have a comparable ride. Same's true for
boards. They're on a 135x38, I'm on one of my big boards. You lightweights for some reason assume that the laws of physics just don't apply to
kiting. Did they stop teaching this stuff in school? It's just simple cause and effect.
No sh*t a 20 is bigger, slower and heavier than a 12 meter... any 12 meter. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Trust me, if
I could get the same performance out of a 12 as I can a 20 I'd be dancing with joy. But that kite doesn't exist. I've also kited with a 9'6"
surfboard and a 12m on a light day, good fun, but not what I want to do when the waves are shoulder to head high and want to smack some lips. Why do
you lightweights also assume that when a big guy uses a big kite it's a lack of experience or skills? Pretty presumptuous considering we don't know
each other and have never kited together.
For a guy who supposedly doesn't mean to be a jerk, you've pretty much perfected being one.Maven454 - 5-11-2009 at 03:52 PM
Sigh. Here we go again bigkahuna - 5-11-2009 at 03:54 PM
Quote:
Sigh. Here we go again
My reaction exactly. I'm done with this thread, bye.snobdr - 5-11-2009 at 04:23 PM
The side by side comparison was on snow so weight has nothing to do with it. In anything under 15 the 20 waroo is junk. Heavy and inefficent. We were
flying in 10-12 on packed powder.
Once again someone flys off the hook because my opinion is different. I guess because im lightweight (30lbs) lighter i dont have a clue. Ive flown 20s
they dont work thats why they arnt made anymore. The ozone zephyr is only a 17m. Big kites dont work. At least big LEIs.Maven454 - 5-11-2009 at 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by bigkahuna
Quote:
Sigh. Here we go again
My reaction exactly. I'm done with this thread, bye.
Actually BK, the here we go again was in reaction to your post, not snobdr's post. I don't see anything offensive about snobdr's post.
so the Venom was quite good to wander off to the waters
edge and then get going.
