Power Kite Forum

The best kite for a beginer

Bladerunner - 8-11-2009 at 10:13 AM

I have seen a lot of call for info on the ideal 1st kite.

Lets assume and average sized person with an average sized budget and variable winds.

What kite would you recommend a beginer starting out learning on his own buy as a 1st kite.

:wee:

OOPS ! I meant to include 5m LIFTY kite and can not edit 5m + to represent that.

I think I should have made some better options but lets please make this a serious poll to help beginers .

Erics - 8-11-2009 at 10:32 AM

A 3 or 4 meter low lift such as beamer or buster are good starter without being to expesive. They then are good buggy engines so giving good life span.

f0rgiv3n - 8-11-2009 at 03:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Erics
A 3 or 4 meter low lift such as beamer or buster are good starter without being to expesive. They then are good buggy engines so giving good life span.

+1
:thumbup:

snobdr - 8-11-2009 at 04:05 PM

First it all depends on what the persons goals are.
Second a persons average budget can vary.
Someone that wants to get into kiteboarding might want to spend that money on lessons and use the centers gear, then go on to buy a depower of some sort.
Someone else might have a bigger average budget and want a small depower to learn on.
Its kinda a loaded question.

dgkid78 - 8-11-2009 at 05:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by snobdr
First it all depends on what the persons goals are.
Second a persons average budget can vary.
Someone that wants to get into kiteboarding might want to spend that money on lessons and use the centers gear, then go on to buy a depower of some sort.
Someone else might have a bigger average budget and want a small depower to learn on.
Its kinda a loaded question.


I understand what bladerunner poll means. Try not to analaze so deep. I think he means in a generic way. Like most new people chiming in for advice and the advice is usually 3m kite.

acampbell - 8-11-2009 at 06:40 PM

I went for the 2nd unmarked choice which I assumed implied a 3-4 m FB, which appears to be the hands down favorite recommendation and I think with good reason, so I was surprised it was not labeled as a primary choice. Ken some time ago you made the really good point - and I paraphrase - that a 4-line kite does behave as an "adult" until 3 m. I have used that many times since.

I would recommend an entry level 2 m to a tween or teen. I would recommend a 4 m to big adult who had some experience with some other kite that would have taught them a thing or two about respect for the wind (large stunters, Revs, 2-line foils, etc).

I would recommend a small de-power only to someone who was getting the proper instruction and support with it. Goes without saying the same
for an LEI.

Bladerunner - 8-11-2009 at 06:52 PM

I put this up too early this morning. I had expected I could add catagories as needed but can't edit the poll.

I'm glad the general intention is understood. Lets use this as a welcoming / educational thread.

I agree that there is no single kite that is perfect for everybody. I had hoped we could discuss the best choices for each flier and explain why.

What I would like most is a simple way to convince the people who seem stuck on starting out too big just why this isn't the best idea.

I know I have said it in many other posts but I find the #1 reason for starting out small is that you gain full control of the kite much quicker. Only when you have control of the kite does valuable learning begin.

WELDNGOD - 8-11-2009 at 07:10 PM

I'm w/ BR on this . Once you figure out what it is that you do, that makes the kite do this , then you can progress to the next level. And a smaller kite is easier to learn the basics on, without as much risk of injury. lets be honest, how many would want a 5.5 century for their first kite? Or a 5m Ace. You know why they call it a 5 m ACE. Because you will need 5m of ACE bandage to wrap up your broken tibia in a soft cast.

snobdr - 8-11-2009 at 07:50 PM

I would agree with small size for a beginner. Which kite though (2 line or 4 line foil, depower foil, lei, arc dosent make much of a difference. Each discipline might favor a different kite but the basic flying is the same. Your first kite should teach you steering, pull right to go right, left to go left.

rudeboysaude - 8-11-2009 at 08:25 PM

When I teach someone I put them on a trainer kite in the 2-3M size and after about 30 minutes they're done with it. Then we get them on a 5-6M depower kite. Here we're talking mostly about snowkiting as it's easier to learn and then transition to water in the spring. One instructor even just gave up on trainer kites and is starting with 4M Access kites. Another uses Apex kites. There are very few fixed bridle kiters around here. It makes the most sense to train students to use the bar and learn the concepts of depower then a fixed bridle kite since they'll never fly one of those anyway. If you want to learn kiting to ride snow or water, you're not going to be flying fixed bridle kites and it makes very little sense to buy a small one to use for a couple of days. We encourage small depower kites, starting on skis so you need less power, and the transition to a large depower is easy cheesy. I was one of those guys that bought a small 3M fixed to learn and now I just circulate it around for others to spend a day with because I don't use it.. except at NABX this year. First time I got to fly a kite that small in long long time.

snobdr - 8-11-2009 at 08:31 PM

Totaly agree with Rudeboy. The hardest habit to break when switching to depower is hanging on the bar and not letting the harness handle it.

Jolt - 8-11-2009 at 09:30 PM

I personally believe it depends on the winds, if there are not too many winds blowing through the area often enough, a 5m would work out better.

f0rgiv3n - 8-11-2009 at 10:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jolt
I personally believe it depends on the winds, if there are not too many winds blowing through the area often enough, a 5m would work out better.


I actually disagree. Because who's going to want to learn powerkiting in 5 mph all the time? You get a newbie (never flown a powerkite before) that wants to go catch air and you put a 5m in their hands they'll push the limits that they shouldn't be pushing until they know how to fly the kites.

Also, to back up my point on the 5mph thing: You get hooked, you start looking at the trees.
What's worse than a day with no wind? a day with TOO much wind. And if they're new, they won't know those limits. 3m-4m kite will be the best all around IMHO.

ripsessionkites - 9-11-2009 at 05:46 AM

i think its determined by what your kiting future holds. if you're going to be kitebuggier / kitesurfer / kgb / snowkite or a mix of all

kitesurfing / kgb / snowkite - 2 or 3 line trainer on bar

kitebuggying - 3m FB (low profile, low ar, reduced lift)

i find that must beginners go out in the most wind they can possibly think of to try their new kite out. hence the 2 to 3m size kites. its true no one ever flies in the "suggested windrange" at first, because they dont have guidelines to understand windspeed.

Bladerunner - 9-11-2009 at 07:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jolt
I personally believe it depends on the winds, if there are not too many winds blowing through the area often enough, a 5m would work out better.



I agree that there are many days around here that a 5m will work better ( hang on the windows edge ) when a 3m won't. A 5m is about perfect as an all round kite here BUT ........
5m is often too much kite. Too much temptation for a stoked new rider to avoid. A VERY dangerous thing !

You can fly a 3m kite in some very low wind if you fly it hard. You can hold on to it until some pretty high wind. Safely!

It would be ideal to have 3, 5 , 7 for learning but we are talking your 1st kite.

BigMikesKites - 9-11-2009 at 04:58 PM

I think Dakitez helped me out when I was looking for my first kite. He analyzed my weight and properly got me hooked up with a 4m. I picked up a 2m shortly after so I could have some range of kites for all winds. This is the same approach I take with someone getting their first kite.

Most people 2-3m. Larger people 3-4m.

soccerflyer - 9-11-2009 at 05:12 PM

I voted for 2-3 M low lift fb, but I would actually say a 2-4M depending on weight of said kiter and winds. My first was a 3M but looking back I could have handled a 4m and would be a little happier with it too. But DEFINITELY better safe than sorry.

Quote:
Originally posted by snobdr
First it all depends on what the persons goals are.
Second a persons average budget can vary.
Someone that wants to get into kiteboarding might want to spend that money on lessons and use the centers gear, then go on to buy a depower of some sort.
Someone else might have a bigger average budget and want a small depower to learn on.
Its kinda a loaded question.


I do see your point though. I agree with you too.

Although I think anyone would do good to get a fb kite to train on. They will enjoy it later in certain circumstances or they can sell it on to the next guy.

soccerflyer - 9-11-2009 at 05:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by snobdr
Totaly agree with Rudeboy. The hardest habit to break when switching to depower is hanging on the bar and not letting the harness handle it.


It might be difficult for some, but it was easy for me. I have only flown 4line fb s till for a year and a half.

Just had my second flight out on my first depower and I realized that very thing. That I need to not hang on the bar, but let the harness do the work and just steer the kite with the bar with lighter more finess of input.

xsv21 - 10-11-2009 at 09:16 PM

I think it's work waiting an asking for help with people around you, maybe even do a lesson, that's what I'm doing, I talked to ppl bye, I'm going to drop the $$ on one or two lessons, an then I get the 3-4m kite out of the way, then I can decide what I need in a kite, why wond I have, and what size it right for everything to come together for my needs

shaggs2riches - 10-11-2009 at 09:43 PM

I have to say that I like xsv21's statement. Just like me he is a beginner. After spending a short time on this site I realized the great amount of information that can be learned to make the learning curve a ton shorter. While I believe that no matter how good at something you are, you are always a student in one way or another. So that is why I believe that some instruction from an experienced flier is a good idea. I'll be booking in for some lessons in the first part of December (that's the earliest they start) I also have a couple other people interested in the sport who have considered taking lessons with me. For a couple hundred bones I feel that the lessons will prove to be a valuable tool. I also believe that kiting as with anything else should include having an experienced person guiding you to make the best purchase of your first kite. That is where this place comes in. The people who make up this forum have lots to teach and everyone of you have something to offer to someone looking for advice. That in itself makes for one of the most important tools a beginner can have. People to answer questions, and people who will take interest when you have a story to share. Sorry for the long rant. I also apologize if it wasn't exactly the answer to the question at hand.

Kamikuza - 10-11-2009 at 10:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by snobdr
Totaly agree with Rudeboy. The hardest habit to break when switching to depower is hanging on the bar and not letting the harness handle it.

Yep ...

Bladerunner - 11-11-2009 at 08:26 AM

Without a doubt a lesson is your best money. It boosts you through the learning curve and helps you decide what you need to buy. Unfortunately many visiting here are too far away from lessons or shops. DVD's are not lessons but can be pretty useful if that is all you can access.

Even if you are getting lessons having a 3m kite is a huge tool. Much of the 1st lesson can be spent learning the basics with a trainer. If you have already got control of a 3m you can whip through the lessons much faster. Saving money + having something to fly out the stoke of that 1st lesson!

Now that I have progress I still look to my smaller kites to work out new moves / kite skills. Just like at the begining I can work this out without paying too much for mistakes. The 3m is big enough to react like a larger kite and will slap you if you do wrong. Of course everyone needs a small kite for the super high wind days. The 3m never stops having a place in your bag.


I think people under estimate the true power of a 3m kite. It will show you plenty of power. Mastering the kite and finding out how to get even more power by proper flying is also a good lesson. A 3m kite flown well can take you a LONG way !


It seems one of the #1 reasons people seem to want too big a kite is the lack of money. Good quality well kept 3m kites resell at a good rate + ship cheap. You are FAR better off to buy and then sell a 3m kite on your way up than to go straight to a larger kite. Very few resell there 3m so moving it on is usually quick and easy with little or no $ lost.

Most of us are attracted to this sport for the jumping. All of us figure out that jumping without knowing how to control the kite isn't as fun as we hoped + hurts. Gaining proper kite skills and pulling off nice floaty jumps IS fun but you get there in stages.

dtoast - 11-11-2009 at 09:22 AM

IMO and being new to power kiting this year…I first picked up a 3m from a local kite shop, I love my Beamer, but really soon after I was looking for more lift and pull. Much like when you’re looking around on YouTube and seeing people in the air. For my second kite I did a lot of research on sizes watching people on YouTube as well…what kite are they on, what size is it, how much do they look like they weigh and wind speed. A couple weeks after getting the Beamer I purchased the Crossfire and got more towards what I was looking for. Now I’m looking for a Depower as I want to do more land boarding and snowkiting, but don't know what my first best size would be to get again.

I guess what I am getting at is a lot depends on what you want to do, your body size, where you will be flying and previous experiences. I have two roommates trying to learn now; one has fewer athletic experiences and I gave him the crossfire in light winds on the turbo bar and he loved it, but was still having some issues. Then gave him the Beamer and he picked it right up…if he continued with the bigger kite right away I don’t think he would keep asking me about flying and he would have also been hurt by now. While my other roommate has a bit more experience and better hand eye coordination (flown two line kites when younger); I gave him the Beamer w/handles to start on and he immediately asking for the Crossfire, if he was purchasing his first kite he would be doing what I did and buying a bigger kite the next week. Though in no means am I recommending at all a 6.5M kite as a first kite. Probably a 3 - 4m if you are not a super light person and then look at the lift ratio(more or less lifty) of the kite biased on your experience and what you want to do. My girlfriend on the other hand is a lost cause and should stick with single string kites.

Bladerunner - 11-11-2009 at 09:43 AM

GREAT POST Dtoast

Your experience is perfectly typical. The Beamer being a popular example. It certianly is a pretty tame kite and usually does leave you wanting something bigger pretty soon. Like you have seen being in control of the kite is the KEY to progressing. If you have very little cash and need to move up the Beamer or similar will resell for about what you paid , used to used and will sell fast if the price is right. Being forced to spend a bit of extra time on the 3m isn't all bad. You then learn techniques to get more out of the kite. Working brakes. loops and downloops. Valuable experience you may put off learning with too much power.

I suspect that if you are fortunate enough to hold on to one of the two kites you describe you will probably opt to hold on the the 3m for the super high winds + teaching friends to fly ? As you saw everybody is better off holding a 3m in a decent wind for those 1st steps.

For your best money IMHO : Buy a quality 3m. Fly it for 3 weeks or a month. If you can afford a second kite by then look for the 5m + depending on what you have discovered you will need . Sell the 3m if you must to fund it. Done right , it may have cost you $20 or less to move your 1st kite. A skill you will not have realized you will need :smug:

soccerflyer - 11-11-2009 at 09:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bladerunner
Without a doubt a lesson is your best money. It boosts you through the learning curve and helps you decide what you need to buy. Unfortunately many visiting here are too far away from lessons or shops. DVD's are not lessons but can be pretty useful if that is all you can access.

Even if you are getting lessons having a 3m kite is a huge tool. Much of the 1st lesson can be spent learning the basics with a trainer. If you have already got control of a 3m you can whip through the lessons much faster. Saving money.

Now that I have progress I still look to my smaller kites to work out new moves / kite skills. Just like at the begining I can work this out without paying too much for mistakes. The 3m is big enough to react like a larger kite and will slap you if you do wrong. Of course everyone needs a small kite for the super high wind days. The 3m never stops having a place in your bag.


I think people under estimate the true power of a 3m kite. It will show you plenty of power. Mastering the kite and finding out how to get even more power by proper flying is also a good lesson. A 3m kite flown well can take you a LONG way !


It seems one of the #1 reasons people seem to want too big a kite is the lack of money. Good quality well kept 3m kites resell at a good rate + ship cheap. You are FAR better off to buy and then sell a 3m kite on your way up than to go straight to a larger kite. Very few resell there 3m so moving it on is usually quick and easy with little or no $ lost.

Most of us are attracted to this sport for the jumping. All of us figure out that jumping without knowing how to control the kite isn't as fun as we hoped + hurts. Gaining proper kite skills and pulling off nice floaty jumps IS fun but you get there in stages.


I agree fully!!!

You can spend $200 on 1 lesson for a couple hours one day. Or you can spend$300 and get a decent 3-4M kite and spend as much time as you want on it.

The argument would be that 1 lesson is all you need on said kite, but I disagree. I think most folks can progress quickly past it, but not one lesson. Let's be honest. You take a total noob out who has never flown a kite and in one day (even assuming wind conditions are perfect) and you are gonna teach him everything he can learn from a trainer kite?? I would challenge that anyone who says that is not being realistic. Now you might be able to in 3-5 lessons. But 3-5 lessons is gonna cost you, what, $600 + ??? No way you can take a total noob and teach him everything from basics of kite terms and wind window and how to fly and figure 8s and kite looping and totally master a 3-4 in one lesson. Now you may argure he doesn't need to learn all that just yet - He can master those things on second kite. Yes, he can BUT only with a trainer. So you are talking about a second lesson. So now said noob has spent $400 + on lessons and has no kite to show for it. Skill yes - kite no.

Now if you are made of money - absolutely get lessons first. But if you are on a tight budget like me, get a decent used trainer for $200 then put the other $400 toward your next kite. And you can even sell your trainer for at least $100-150.

Like me I had a guy offer me lessons for $300. It literally takes me 6 months to save up that kind of money. So if I had done it I would have spend 3 hondo and just had a few skills to show for and and 6 months later I could have anoter lesson or kite.

What I did was get my Waroo instead. And I am very glad I did.

Just my .02 worth . . . . . .

snobdr - 11-11-2009 at 10:10 AM

soccerflyer - 11-11-2009 at 10:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by snobdr


??????????

snobdr - 11-11-2009 at 10:38 AM

Real kiteboarding ground lesson is 1.5 hours for 100 bucks. they teach you everything from flying, wind window, rigging,tuning, and safety. after that you are on the water on a much bigger kite.

Everyone learns at different rates but they seem to do well with 1.5 hours of trainer time.

If you can pick up a second hand trainer for cheap then by all means. If you have no one around to learn from it probably is a good idea.

Once you can fly a kite, find out what kite you need for your conditions for your riding and go for it.

Personally i went from a 3M trainer to a 12M LEI because in my area thats what is needed for most conditions to kiteboard. Theres no reason you have to go in steps.IE 3M then 5M then 7M then depower.... Too much FB trainer times hurts you when you move on to depower. And you end up relearning how to use the kite.

Bladerunner - 11-11-2009 at 11:12 AM

Another great example.

Owning the 3m and flying it for a short time allowed you to see that a 12m was going to be the most appropriate " all round " size. With the confidence and skill gained you could make that leap.

Being all alone and trying to figure it out on that 12 would have been less than smart. Buying one as a second kite probably was. Selling the 3m and moving to a 12 probably happened faster than if someone bought a 5 - 6 m kite and was struggling to self teach.

That bit of time flying the 3m is the perfect time for thinking about the next kite. Very likely it will be bigger than that 5m fixed bridle you thought you needed at 1st, or depower. Something you will never stop doing :wee:

Getting that 3m ( or some time on one ) is a bit of a no brainer. The BIG question might be , what is the best second kite for me ?

soccerflyer - 11-11-2009 at 12:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bladerunner
The BIG question might be , what is the best second kite for me ?


That question can only be answered by knowing what you want to do in the end. There are LOTS of directions to go with the second kite.

dtoast - 11-11-2009 at 12:42 PM

You don't see that question too often as compared to the “I'm new what do I buy” question. If you ask me, the second kite question seems more important to ask as there are more options and the dollar investment is greater. If I did it all over again knowing what I know now I would have saved longer and bought a depower…but I was impatient at the time and could not afford the additional cost…(harness, land board, bar system).

WELDNGOD - 11-11-2009 at 01:40 PM

bump to unlock

snobdr - 11-11-2009 at 03:10 PM

My point was more the 100 dollar lesson compaired to the 300 dollar kite.

dtoast if you bought a beamer 3M new it would have been 250, then next week you bought the crossfire new for around 500. thats 750.

Or you could have taken a lesson for 100 bucks, been told you need such and such size depower and had 650 to go buy the kite and harness ect. You might have to search for some real good deals to get it all for that price but would have been almost there.

No choice but to learn by yourself 3M. Depending on how fast you learn you might be bored with it in a week. So buy used. A 5M is managable in light winds but it only takes one gust at the wrong time to get hurt bad.

BeamerBob - 11-11-2009 at 04:15 PM

I love depower, but still have fixed bridle kites. I just have different fixed bridles than my second or third kites were. I had to feel my way through it. Short version: I got my 3m Beamer, then a 5m blaze, then a 5m crossfire (which I upgraded to a CF II) because I was ready for more power and heck, some lift would be fun. Got a blade 6.5 because even more lift would be even more fun (and it was). Then I got the buggy and the liquidation started so I could get non-lifty fixed bridles. I still have 4 and will add a 3m Scout when they come out but my fixed bridle kites are in addition to the depowers and I don't see myself ever giving up either the fixed bridle kites or depower. They peacefully coexist and I guess they always will. A 2 hour lesson in the spring of 2007 wouldn't have moved me through my process any more efficiently.

Kamikuza - 11-11-2009 at 04:15 PM

My problem with the initial lessons was I kept forgetting ... wasting time learning to rig when I can learn that from a DVD and repetition by myself :wow:

Bladerunner - 11-11-2009 at 05:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BeamerBob
. A 2 hour lesson in the spring of 2007 wouldn't have moved me through my process any more efficiently.


Gee B'bob, I have always sort of thought your progression was slowed by spending so much time flying before hooking in and trying depower. A good , safe , respectable pace that was working for you. I can't help but think that if you had taken a good 2 hour lesson back then that you would have broken in to that whole hooked in / depower angle sooner though? Are you sure it wouldn't have altered the course you took a fare bit ?

Even with lessons and a 9m C kite and 3m 3line on a bar I was SHOCKED at the power that my 4.5 Bullet hit me with 1st time out. Handles added to the intimidation having only used a bar at that point.

xsv21 - 11-11-2009 at 09:40 PM

I talked to th guy who does lessons by me, he said you spend about 15 to 30 min ( depending on the person) on a 3m fix, then he said they go almost strait to a inflatible depower or whatever suits you for what you are looking into getting into. He also said the second kite can start at a 7m anyways, it all matters on the wind. He also said he is going to try to get me good deals on stuff that is used from the shop. So really I think it's worth the one or two lessons to get the hang of stuff, so you don't hVe to spend 200+ on a 3m kite you may or may not use after the first 2 weeks