Power Kite Forum - Rock Climbing Harness?

Rock Climbing Harness?

sofa king - 13-11-2009 at 11:21 AM

they seem a hell of alot cheaper at less than $30 compared to $100-200 for a kite harness anyone use one? think it will work?
http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/CMP0028/CAMP-USA-XLH-...

or this one
http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/BLD0289/Black-Diamond...

or would they be too lay'd back seating for kite'ing?

DAKITEZ - 13-11-2009 at 11:24 AM

a few people have used them in the past ... just make sure you have a safety to get un-hooked quickly.

sofa king - 13-11-2009 at 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DAKITEZ
a few people have used them in the past ... just make sure you have a safety to get un-hooked quickly.

i thought that safety was part of the bar

macboy - 13-11-2009 at 11:26 AM

The Wichard is the ticket. I started with a climbing harness, Wichard/pulley setup for flying on handles.

flyjump - 13-11-2009 at 11:32 AM

I used one when I first started on de-power. I eventually switched over to a waist harness. I didn't like when i was in mid jump and my legs would be pulled up in front of me instead of being able to swing free below to anticipate a landing. I crashed hard on my butt/lower back. A climbing harness will work fine, but in the end, I felt more comfortable in a waist harness

ragden - 13-11-2009 at 11:35 AM

Most people I have talked to go with actual kite design specific harnesses. The reason being is comfort in most cases. Or safety functionality. I've never used a climbing harness myself. It boils down to what is comfortable for you.

rocfighter - 13-11-2009 at 11:44 AM

I've checked out a few climbers myself. Some one on here said watch out for the crotch straps on some. They will cause much discomfort in a hard pull:eekdrull:

furbowski - 13-11-2009 at 11:45 AM

climbing harnesses are built with maximum range of movement and and light weight as the prime design objectives, with comfort usually a distant third or fourth, but they will work.

kite harnesses are much heavier, but allow you all the movement you need for kitesports and allow you to comfortably hold a lot of pull. they cover a lot more area on your body and spread out the forces of pull much more as well.

also they come with spreader bars which do as much to make the pull of the kite comfortable as the added area does. you'll feel much more like you are sitting in a chair, while climbing harnesses under load will pinch your pelvis together tight and hard. not at all comfortable.

usually the better the climber the less they fully weight their harness while climbing, there are may who hardly ever weight their harness at all except for a brief lower or abseil.

+ :thumbup:

for kite / some windsurf specific harnesses...

trancein1 - 13-11-2009 at 11:57 AM

Jolt and I use the climbing harness, it works well. We attach a cabriner clip to the bar, the only thing I dont like about it, is that it hurts after a while of kite jumping in the crotch, need to figure out a way to pad that area. Was thinking of adding seat belt padding for that area. Much cheaper then the waist one, I dont like the waist ones cuase they slide up to your chest.

Here is the seat belt strap that can be slipped on around the crotch area.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EBKG5Y

DAKITEZ - 13-11-2009 at 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sofa king

Quote:

Originally posted by DAKITEZ
a few people have used them in the past ... just make sure you have a safety to get un-hooked quickly.

i thought that safety was part of the bar

If you are using a chickenloop then yes the quick release is built in. You would use a carabiner to clip the chickenloop to your harness.

I have never done this personally, but i think the folks above are on to something about the comfort level.

ragden - 13-11-2009 at 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by trancein1
Jolt and I use the climbing harness, it works well. We attach a cabriner clip to the bar, the only thing I dont like about it, is that it hurts after a while of kite jumping in the crotch, need to figure out a way to pad that area. Was thinking of adding seat belt padding for that area. Much cheaper then the waist one, I dont like the waist ones cuase they slide up to your chest.

While most waist harnesses do tend to slide up after use (my mystic warrior rides up as time goes by, but tends to take about 2 hrs before it gets uncomfortable), its only if you keep the kite up high that it really rides up on you. You can also look at the waist harness with leg straps (Ozone Access XC, and/or the Ocean Rodeo Session II).

However, all kite harnesses tend to be a bit expensive... Can't really avoid that...

acampbell - 13-11-2009 at 01:30 PM

Check out this thread...
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=11563

...for a review of the Ozone Access XC (now the "SB") harness for only $125. It is light and simple like a climbing harness, hence the lower cost, but has the elements missing from the climbing harness that make it good for kiting (spreader bar, back padding, chest pad).

Just about everybody I know who started with a climbing harness migrated sooner or later (usually sooner) to something kite-specific.

sofa king - 13-11-2009 at 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyjump
I used one when I first started on de-power. I eventually switched over to a waist harness. I didn't like when i was in mid jump and my legs would be pulled up in front of me instead of being able to swing free below to anticipate a landing. I crashed hard on my butt/lower back. A climbing harness will work fine, but in the end, I felt more comfortable in a waist harness

herm i was planning on starting out jumping around then move to ATB then the water (with a synergy so its got a chickenloop) sounds like i'd want a waist harness after reading this since ill be jumping....i havent got my kite yet, its supposed to come in the mail monday so i may just attach a carabiner to my belt loop and the chickenloop and see how that works out before making my decision.
thanks for all the great replies

oh and by carabiner are the keychain type strong enough?

acampbell - 13-11-2009 at 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sofa king
....i havent got my kite yet, its supposed to come in the mail monday so i may just attach a carabiner to my belt loop and the chickenloop and see how that works out before making my decision.

To your belt? This is not good. Sorry for the question, but what have you flown before and who will be helping/ instructing you? Where will you put the leash to kill the kite after your belt fails? To a belt loop?

Quote:

oh and by carabiner are the keychain type strong enough?

NOOOOOOOOO!! It will fail like a paper clip. If you have flown a real kite before then you would know this.

I'm sorry and I really mean the best of intentions, but you really can't just strap on a Synergy with these kinds of notions, no experience, and without the right gear.

Well, you can, but it will not end well.

sofa king - 13-11-2009 at 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by acampbell

Quote:

oh and by carabiner are the keychain type strong enough?

really it i read the keychains have a 500lbs breaking strength...
and the only kite ive flown before is my 5meter, and a 2meter. and no instructor/helper....im going to the beach for my first flight so it something breaks or fails ill have soft sand to land on. also i wont use my belt it was just one of those questions i had to ask because i didn't know how much force is exerted onto the harness..

DAKITEZ - 13-11-2009 at 05:03 PM

uh oh ... just for the record its not me sending the kite, but we do need to get you informed quickly before your kite gets here. Do your pants have 500lb thread holding on that belt loop? You have to remember that all the kites pull is on that chicken loop. Your arms will be holding very little if any of the kites power.

DAKITEZ - 13-11-2009 at 05:05 PM

Contact the shop you got the synergy from and tell them to hook you up with a good harness. You spent all that money on that awesome kite I would hate to see it float away and you loose it the first time out. I don't want you take this the wrong way, but its like you have a new sports car with no tires.

InvertedForce - 13-11-2009 at 08:12 PM

By the way, 500lbs force is not much, especially when you consider that most climbing carabiners have approximately a 5500lb test. You don't see somebody climbing with a keychain, they're just too unsafe. It might be good for hoisting something, or attaching something light to your harness (ie, bag) but you certainly would not want to chance losing a kite or breaking a bone to save a few bucks. Carabiners are cheap, like $10.

kteguru - 13-11-2009 at 09:08 PM

Let's hope this ends well. Please at least get a climbing harness and a caribeaner to get yourself going. Black Diamond ovals cost 4.99 at EMS or anywhere else for that matter. It's worth 35 bucks to save yourself from a trip to the hospital.

kteguru - 13-11-2009 at 09:13 PM

Just looked at the links in the original post. Go with the Black Diamond harness. The other one is essentially useless. Make sure you try it on first also. There's plenty of climbing stores around. Sizes on those things are useless. Trying it on for a good fit is necessary. Good luck.

InvertedForce - 13-11-2009 at 09:33 PM

By the way, kteguru, I saw your mood said Blueberry pancakes... suddenly I got the craving! :tumble:

furbowski - 13-11-2009 at 09:49 PM

on the 500 lb carabiners... don't use them unless they are stamped somewhere with 3 strength ratings, one for cross-loading across the gate, one for loading along the line of the spine / back / longest part of the carabiner (strongest), and one for loading with the gate open (weakest). The rating should be in kilonewtons, (KN), a measure of dynamic force.

Anything with those numbers is good, anything without is bad.

I used a sport climbing carabiner with a curved gate before i got my good kite harness, worked nice because I could pass the rope across the gate to unhook without having to take my hands off the handles. My QR was a slipknot tied in 6mm spectra with a very slippery sheath and a big toggle, it worked pretty well actually, but yeah it was dodgy. I've been climbing for decades so i had some old harnesses around. Yep it's functional and yep they hurt, very few climbing harnesses are designed for comfort under a constant load.

much better now on an old cabrinha seat harness with a hook on the spreader bar, works good and very comfy.

Jolt - 13-11-2009 at 10:36 PM

I could have sworn the keychain ones were much less than 500lb...

The carabiner I got for my harness was only like 5 bucks at REI, carabiners run cheap, its the harness you want to look into.

rocfighter - 14-11-2009 at 04:40 AM

Blue berry pancakes.... DAMN! :o

bobalooie57 - 14-11-2009 at 07:11 AM

With fresh up-state NY (or Vt, or wherever) maple syrup... sorry...

furbowski - 14-11-2009 at 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jolt
I could have sworn the keychain ones were much less than 500lb...

they are, for sure.... there are some metal ones floating around though, about 3" long or so, that look like they could hold maybe a couple hundred pounds but are completely untested and unrated and have none of the UIAA stuff in KN stamped on them.

blueberry panckaes, some good dark well boiled down syrup, range eggs, sausage, hash browns.....

:thumbup:

man the food here can suck at times....

rocfighter - 14-11-2009 at 07:32 AM

We still have a few quarts of our home made syrup from this spring. But went out and snatched a few eggs from the coup and had a real good vermont cheddar omlet! :singing:

furbowski - 14-11-2009 at 07:36 AM

good cheese. impossible to find in asia unless you go down downtown and pay extra for the air cargo expenses...

vermont cheddar and eggs still warm from the coop, sounds nice!

bobalooie57 - 14-11-2009 at 07:36 AM

mmmmmmmmm....... :lol:

rocfighter - 14-11-2009 at 07:51 AM

Sorry we are sooo off course here.
I agree that if you use your belt and a key chain you best hope you have good insurance. And in my opinion the best insurance will be go to the sports shop in your area and at least get a padded harness and a certified beaner. An average cost of $50.00 total and still show up for work next week.
Any way, a key chain will cost you $1.99 and a certified beaner will be$5-6.00, And a good belt is $20.00 and a safty harness is $45.00 Like in another thread some had written it's like buying a top knotch sports car, and putting bald tires on it. It just makes no sense.
Please take non of what we are all saying as critisizm. This sport is facing many critics as all other sports do. And the safer we show ourselves the better the sport will be for the future.
Ok so now I'm a phylosifizer! Maybe my fever is back!
Play safe, Dave.

sofa king - 14-11-2009 at 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rocfighter
Sorry we are sooo off course here.
I agree that if you use your belt and a key chain you best hope you have good insurance. And in my opinion the best insurance will be go to the sports shop in your area and at least get a padded harness and a certified beaner. An average cost of $50.00 total and still show up for work next week.
Any way, a key chain will cost you $1.99 and a certified beaner will be$5-6.00, And a good belt is $20.00 and a safty harness is $45.00 Like in another thread some had written it's like buying a top knotch sports car, and putting bald tires on it. It just makes no sense.
Please take non of what we are all saying as critisizm. This sport is facing many critics as all other sports do. And the safer we show ourselves the better the sport will be for the future.
Ok so now I'm a phylosifizer! Maybe my fever is back!
Play safe, Dave.

link to $45 harness?

kteguru - 14-11-2009 at 06:26 PM

Quote:

link to $45 harness? /

Quote:

The Black diamond you originally posted a link to is a very good harness,,,,,,,add a beaner and your off and flying.

As for the blueberry pancakes,,,,,,,,,,6 days a week for me :smilegrin:

Home made with fresh blueberries from the local farmer and real new england maple syrup. That crap from Aunt Jemima makes me want to barf. I spare no expense on my pancakes. Only the very best :smilegrin:

sorry for the hijack. Just make sure to try on whatever harness you buy. Climbing harnesses can be very comfortable in a buggy or on a board IF you take the time to get one that fits properly.

Good winds
Dean

kteguru - 14-11-2009 at 06:27 PM

Sorry, I screwed up the quote thingy

sofa king - 15-11-2009 at 11:27 AM

http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/Black-Diamond-Vario-C...
went to the rock climbing store today and saw this^^ what do ya'll think, yay or nay?

action jackson - 15-11-2009 at 11:47 AM

Just get a real kite harness, it will be so much better than spending money on rock climbing one. You will end up with both if you buy this one first. The backsupport will really help out...............aj

rocfighter - 15-11-2009 at 06:47 PM

Na no support, the pull will be to high and you won't get any legg support.

indigo_wolf - 15-11-2009 at 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sofaking
http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/Black-Diamond-Vario-C...
went to the rock climbing store today and saw this^^ what do ya'll think, yay or nay?

Big Nay.

The Chest Harness is not meant to be your primary harness. It is meant to control your center of gravity and to prevent you from inverting, if you are climbing with a load or performing work that might suddenly upset your balance.

From the product description:
"Use the Black Diamond Vario Chest Harness in conjunction with your regular harness to keep you upright when jugging a fixed line, aiding a roof, or rappelling with a heady load. Don't risk being flipped upside down because of a unique climbing situation, just clip the rope though the Black Diamond Vario Chest Harness to keep you upright and making progress."

ATB,
Sam

acampbell - 16-11-2009 at 06:26 AM

Good call, Sam
The pancake breakfast part of this thread was more productive.

I kite with and talk to a lot of friends and customers and I do not know anyone who tried a climbing harness who did not eventually get a kite harness (most pretty quickly).

If it's about saving money you may as well cut leg holes in a Hefty Cinch Sack, as it will have the same effect when you hook a kite to it. There is a reason for the spreader bar and added padding. Even the Ozone harness without the spreader bar has added lumbar padding that spreads the load around the back more than the climbing harness will, from what I have seen.

furbowski - 16-11-2009 at 06:49 AM

nice call, indigo.

chest harnesses are never used without waist harnesses. the consequences of a hard yank to the chest are far more severe than the same hard yank to the pelvis.

full body harnesses are often used, but not for dynamic climbing, and they hurt just as bad as the normal ones do.

forty-five degrees F in Zhao Qing right now and it gets cold so rarely here the houses don't have heating!

just reread the pancake breakfast, and it's making me drool!

sofa king - 17-11-2009 at 12:07 PM

one last question
if i get this http://www.bigwinds.com/kite/category/47/product/1060 it would appear a need a spreader bar as well, correct? but how do i tell what size spreader bar i need?

ragden - 17-11-2009 at 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sofa king
one last question
if i get this http://www.bigwinds.com/kite/category/47/product/1060 it would appear a need a spreader bar as well, correct? but how do i tell what size spreader bar i need?

Call them. That is the best recommendation I can make. Or get a harness that has a spreader bar already incorporated. It looks like a good deal IF you already have a spreader bar. Otherwise you will end up spending more to get the spreader bar in addition to the harness than if you got one that already had it attached. Once you add both the spreader bar and the pad for it (you will probably want both), you are looking at nearly 150 dollars for the set. At that point, you could have gotten the Ozone Access XC for 125 with spreader bar, or you could have gotten something else entirely.

If you want the dakine harness, I'd say call them and ask them which they would recommend for which size. Its probably the best and safest way to do it.

acampbell - 18-11-2009 at 07:08 AM

Or, if you want something with more structure than the Ozone, just buy a Mystic than comes with the proper spreader bar. Riders on our beach refer to Dakines as "watered down Mystics", which is probably too harsh, but they do vote with their wallets (and no they did not buy from me).

rudeboysaude - 18-11-2009 at 11:46 PM

I vote with my wallet too, and I always choose Dakine. Why? They are a great company that sponsors kite events. When we hosted a Kite Girl Clinic here in MN they sent demo harnesses for the girls to use and donated lots of gloves and hats for door prizes at our event. If you check out the sponsors on all the upcoming snowkiting events, I bet their name is on there somewhere. Any company that gives back to the community earns my money and I encourage others to check out their products as well to ensure they can continue to give support.