Power Kite Forum

First attempt at Nasa wing making

van - 20-11-2009 at 03:55 PM

ok.. I just made my first NPW9b last week. It took me about 4 hours to make including cutting and sewing time. It did take a whole week of researching and figuring out what I need to do also.

It flys okay but the nose collapse in turns and low wind. Not sure if the profile of the nose is wrong or the bridle needs adjusting.

All comments welcome!!



van - 20-11-2009 at 03:55 PM

Turns out I had more fabric than I really needed so I made a second one. An 8m NPW-HA !! Anyone made these yet? I like the high aspect look and I think it should turn faster. I'm used to the turning speed of my LEIs so the NPW9b seems to turn a little slow. But then, I've never buggy so I have no clue what type is best for a buggy engine.

I got about 2 hours of cutting and sewing into this so far. Got the 3 middle sections sewn so far. Should be ready for testing in Galveston at DBBB this weekend if the rain dies down.

herc - 20-11-2009 at 04:02 PM

very cool! please make videos and fotos of your first flights. and could you do me a favor ? could you weight your NPW9b (size?) and your NPW-HA 8qm (kite with bridles only, no bar, no lines) ? can you estimate the projected area? i am asking because of a thread i have running, where i collect weight per sqm-proj. for different kites. thanks and good luck with your test flights!
http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2360753&p=62199...

Bladerunner - 20-11-2009 at 05:05 PM

Do you realize that nose collapse is semi normal with NPW's ?
The seccond it starts give it more brake input.

van - 20-11-2009 at 10:54 PM

blade,

That's what I've been reading on the forum but since this is my first NPW, I wasn't sure how much collapse is considered normal. The entire nose , which is only about 3 inches in height folds completely down about 8 inches from its original location. I did find out that giving it a little brake would fill the nose back up but then I am no longer going forward. As long as I keep the brakes applied slightly, the kite hovers in place perfectly. If I start to move it around and get a little speed, the nose collapse. I'm thinking about using a different material on the nose to help hold the shape.

van - 20-11-2009 at 11:07 PM

herc,

The NPW9b is 6m in size. I have that completed with bridles so I can weight that for you. I'm not sure how I can determine the projected area. It flies fairly flat so I'm guessing the projected area is around 90% of the surface area when it's flat? I weight it and it came out 395 grams or about 13.9 ounce with kite and bridles.

herc - 21-11-2009 at 01:01 AM

@van: thank you very much for putting it on the scale. i will add the data tomorrow. for projected area, i will take the usual factor of 85% for soft kites. or maybe a little less - 80% ?

about the collapsing nose: i would find it very interesting, if you would experiment with adding a normal tube from a bicycle wheel or a fibre glass / carbon rod that stabilises the leading edge..
see here, the nasawing STEALTH NW 01 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DctTU5LpeI

from http://www.kitesclub.com/nasa-wing-59462.html:
Quote:

I've been flying and experimenting with NASA WINGS for years. They are a minimum two line kite often sold as a four. Personally I hate any kite on four lines. Check out dedicated web sites for flying NASA's on two lines. Of course with four lines you much better break control, on two lines you will need to use horizontal flight (turning the kite from left to right) to manage altitude and performance. Persist. The kite is a marvel and packs a punch for it surface area to volume ratio single skin. I currently fly a STEALTH NW01. Basically it's an NPW 9 with a single carbon rod leading edge. All those pesky bridles are sorted by two large virticle plastic traingles that also act as guidence fins. The triangles have a bridging bridle and the kite is flown brilliantly on two lines. This kite rocks, I guess it;s somewhere between a C-Quad and your kite. All kites have limitations, remember, your kite has a soft nose LE and was originally designed as a parachute for space craft.

herc - 21-11-2009 at 02:32 AM

http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2360753&...

so, your nasawing made the first place regarding weight / squaremeter !!! unbelievable ! what material did you use? ripstop nylon ? how much gramm per squaremeter ?

Bladerunner - 21-11-2009 at 10:22 AM

Some people get the false impression that you can't stay upwind with a NPW at 1st. It is a matter of not too much or too little brake + where you send the kite.

RRR - 21-11-2009 at 01:20 PM

50% Power & 50% Brake or this kite will`not fly, you have to put up wind slower then a power kite sneak it up wind it work.

power - 21-11-2009 at 05:21 PM

What is an NPW? A power kite build it yourself kit?

Bladerunner - 21-11-2009 at 05:33 PM

It is a single skin kite design that can be made at home with a bit of time + sewing skills.

It stands for Nasa Para Wing.

Use it as a search word for TONS of info on here. They are different but have their strong points.

action jackson - 21-11-2009 at 05:46 PM

Ragflappers!.........aj

Gal0122.jpg - 21kB

Bladerunner - 21-11-2009 at 05:57 PM

OK so they aren't the best kites for jumping but they DO have qualities :lol:

van - 21-11-2009 at 06:46 PM

It's actually a pretty good kite for beginners to make and fly since it's very cheap and pulls like a train but no lift. As long as you don't make it too big!! :wee: My friend just tried it out today and he likes it. Took him awhile to control it with the 50% braking. What line length is everyone flying these with? I put it on 10 meter lines just to play with.

herc - I used 3/4 oz ripstop nylon. Not sure how durable it is yet. Might have to upgrade to 1.5oz material if this doesn't hold up. It is very light the way it's contructed. Its made out of ripstop + polyester thread + dacron line , nothing else. I guess the single skin helps to make it light.

herc - 22-11-2009 at 02:18 AM

21 g / sqm ripstop nylon appears to me indeed extremely light. what did you pay for it per sqm?
afaik normally they use for most kites 40 - 45 gramm per sqm.
i am a bit jealous! you now have the ultimate light wind machine :-)
is it possible to run a 360° circle with this kite in no wind? would love to see a video of that.

acampbell - 22-11-2009 at 11:29 AM

You can fly them with short lines or no lines at all - right on the handles. good for parking lot surfing.

macboy - 22-11-2009 at 01:14 PM

Are there similar homebrew foils too? Not like the Calvin & Hobbes....just straight up, single colored panels?

herc - 22-11-2009 at 02:27 PM

you can find a lot of different kite concepts for homebrew here:

http://2e5.com/

especially the yagu is fantastic!!
http://2e5.com/kite/yagu/

van - 22-11-2009 at 08:47 PM

I'm gonna have to make the Yagu next. It's looks like one of my old C kite.

Herc - I've already tried running around in a circle the other day because there was no wind in front of my house. It flys pretty good but you do get a workout and dizzy running in circles. I had it on handles only , no lines.

I finally got the bridle finished on my NPW-HA. I will test it tomorrow and get a video of it.

herc - 23-11-2009 at 02:44 AM

@van: yes please, that would be fantastic if you could build a larger scale yagu. the yagu in the picture is small - if i remember right its just 1.9 sqm. a >6 sqm wold be highly interesting.

yep, that circle running is like a 100m sprint. i did it this weekend , too, with my pkd busterII 3qm, because there was no wind at all... but i think long lines - 30 m or more - might help, because one increases the radius and thus can slingshot and accelerate the kite better. do you know the fantastic video of a 720° with a ozone yakuza: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SvVc8L1_1I ?

very interested in your NPW-HA video! waiting!

rocfighter - 23-11-2009 at 05:22 AM

I like the hybred of the Nasa wing with the cells on the nose to keep it inflated.
Herk thanks for the link. Theres a lot of info in the articles on this link. Very cool.
Dave

furbowski - 23-11-2009 at 07:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by herc
you can find a lot of different kite concepts for homebrew here:

http://2e5.com/



:thumbup:

lots of information here between the lines as well as "up front", I'm about to dig through the site for a while...

thanks!

van - 25-11-2009 at 07:28 PM

I did do some test with the NPW-HA while I was down at DBBB in galveston today. It flew ok but did not have the pull that I was expecting. It's also very stable once its airborne. You can almost fly it as a one line kite. I have some videos but can't seem to get it off my camera yet (firewire cable is not working). Using the calculator, the brake lines seems too short. I had to lengthen it to make it fly, but now it seems like it has no power. The bridle is tied directly to the extension lines on my bar. I used an old kitesurfing bar and it works pretty good. I also tried it on handles and it flys about the same.




herc - 26-11-2009 at 02:52 AM

looking at the pictures, it seems as if the NPW-HA has a much lower AoA than a usual NPW !? that would explain it has less pull... but it should be much faster then. maybe you need to put it on long lines to speed it up! then speed may give pull and lift. i found out, that a tubekite on normal linge length ( 20m) develops much much more power than on short lines (6m).

van - 4-12-2009 at 11:13 PM

first flight .. wife did the video taping... gonna have to teach her how to zoom out ... :spin:

herc - 5-12-2009 at 07:11 AM

nice video!
what about putting a thin carbon / fiber glass rod to the leading edge to stabilize it?
do you have follow up plans after your successful nasa wings ?
a yagu in large scale?

bobalooie57 - 5-12-2009 at 07:37 AM

Thats a beauty. I think you would have less nose collapse on longer (20M) lines with handles, though I've never flown an NPW on a bar. Seems to me there might be better brake input with handles. But great job!

kitemaker4 - 5-12-2009 at 08:39 AM

I have found that the 3/4 oz. nylon is very durable. The first nasa wings I ever made are still in use now. They are over 4 years old now. I have also made many changes/upgrads in making them. I think using heavyer material would be overkill and would make the kite twice a heavy.

Susan (npw goddess)

Quote:
Originally posted by van
It's actually a pretty good kite for beginners to make and fly since it's very cheap and pulls like a train but no lift. As long as you don't make it too big!! :wee: My friend just tried it out today and he likes it. Took him awhile to control it with the 50% braking. What line length is everyone flying these with? I put it on 10 meter lines just to play with.

herc - I used 3/4 oz ripstop nylon. Not sure how durable it is yet. Might have to upgrade to 1.5oz material if this doesn't hold up. It is very light the way it's contructed. Its made out of ripstop + polyester thread + dacron line , nothing else. I guess the single skin helps to make it light.

kitemaker4 - 5-12-2009 at 08:43 AM

With practice you will learn how to add more brake input to take care of the nose collapse.


Susan (npw goddess)

Quote:
Originally posted by van
ok.. I just made my first NPW9b last week. It took me about 4 hours to make including cutting and sewing time. It did take a whole week of researching and figuring out what I need to do also.

It flys okay but the nose collapse in turns and low wind. Not sure if the profile of the nose is wrong or the bridle needs adjusting.

All comments welcome!!



van - 5-12-2009 at 08:55 AM

My main problem right now is that I did not have the right lines to test with or the right handles. All my handles were for my Rev kites so they are very small. I actually didn't even put any lines on that handle. The bridle was attached directly to the extensions coming off the bars. I am used to the bars on my LEIs so I borrowed one from my other kites to try it out. It flew ok but it did limit my control range a bit. I have the proper lines and handles now so I will do a proper test and also get some better videos made.

I wish Susan lived a little closer so I can pick her brain..:sniff:

manofthewind - 15-12-2009 at 01:34 PM

hi van what do you use for your bridal what kind of cord ?

manofthewind - 15-12-2009 at 01:36 PM

And would you think the NPW-HA would be a good buggy kite do u think it would do better than the NPW9b ?

van - 15-12-2009 at 02:32 PM

bridal - hollow core dacron

NPW-HA .. haven't had a chance to test with the buggy yet...will test soon. Waiting for free time / good wind in Houston area. It's supposedly cooking today in Galveston but stuck at work.