Power Kite Forum

LEI reverse launching

power - 21-11-2009 at 05:32 PM

I was out the other day flying my LEI and realized how annoying it was when it landed leading edge down and then I had to go over and flip it. The winds were too low to even fly it well, so I knew reverse launching was out of the picture. My question is, how do you reverse launch an LEI? I've heard from some that you can't reverse launch it, so I think I'm not exactly clear on what reverse launching is then. I thought reverse launching was launching the kite from the leading edge down position? If you can't reverse launch it, how can you relaunch the kite when it lands leading edge down without flipping it by hand?

Bladerunner - 21-11-2009 at 05:49 PM

Is this a 4 line kite ?

If it is you are pretty much out of luck on land. You shouldn't just Flip it either ! Launch it from the edge with a weight. You are by FAR best off with an assisted launch + landing.

If you don't know how to safely launch / relaunch this kite are you sure you should be flying it ? :puzzled:
Forget most of what you learned about launching and landing a foil with this kite !
Are you completely clear on how your safety works ?

ON WATER ( or snow ) you would pull on the front lines, swim like a wild man toward your kite and let go . Pray that the kite will flip on it's back. Work it to the edge of the window as it slides along the water . Once it is at the edge it will take off.

ADD A FIFTH LINE !!!!! Then you can get it off it's nose and hopefully relaunch without a rip. You can get a fifth line attachment sewn on cheap and upgrade the bar you have. It is almost a MUST for safety and convenience. I can send you a link on how to convert your bar to 5 line.

stetson05 - 21-11-2009 at 06:34 PM

search Youtube I saw a video once where they said something about pulling on one side til is spun around. Good luck

power - 21-11-2009 at 06:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bladerunner
ADD A FIFTH LINE !!!!!

Don't worry, its got a fifth line and an emergency quick release on the bar. Now how do I reverse launch it?

manitoulinkiter1 - 21-11-2009 at 06:56 PM

Hi

Pull the 5th line until the kite flops down on its back leading edge toward you. Then pull one back line to get the kite to swing around and reinflate. Then try to do a controlled launch.
If your on hard terrain this will be hard on the kite. If your in light winds it will be difficult.

Hope that helps a bit
John

power - 21-11-2009 at 06:59 PM

So pulling on the fifth line would make the kite go on its back? I would think it would pull the whole kite towards you?

Kamikuza - 21-11-2009 at 07:31 PM

The idea is that it flops on it's back, the wind catches the wing tips and you pull one of the rear lines to get the whole kite to slide towards the edge of the window then hopefully up and away. It's a #@%$#! to do on my Airush which I why I love my arcs :)

power - 21-11-2009 at 07:34 PM

When you pull on one of the rear lines, is that the same thing as pulling on the left or right side of the bar?

arkay - 21-11-2009 at 09:45 PM

On land, I think the easiest thing to do is to just walk way upwind of the kite. It's effectivly like solo launching. The wind will (usually) rolls the kite over. You can also rock the kite on it's edge by ealking upwind and stearing down wind, but caution on this one :) you want to make sure the kite rocks and opens to the edge of the window :) Best if you can find someone to assist or kill the power and set it up manually.

power - 21-11-2009 at 09:52 PM

If I walk upwind of the kite with the leading edge down, that will just drag the kite and I don't see how it would flip it onto its back. Am I wrong? I really want to learn how to do this consistently for the days when I fly alone.

carltb - 22-11-2009 at 06:19 AM

i take it you are talkin about the nemesis in your sig.
ok the best bar has 2 os handles on the rear lines. grab hold of both and pull. this will deform the kite but should also lift it off the ground. when it has lifted far enough from the ground, gently release one side and the kite should fly off in that direction.

WARNING - this can be a dangerous method and is not called a hot launch for nothing.


(or sell up and buy a Charger then you wont have to worry about re launch or your kite droppin out of the sky!!! LOL)

Bladerunner - 22-11-2009 at 08:53 AM

Reverse launch isn't exactly right for a 4 / 5 line.

Inmitate what I said about on water / snow with a 4 line .

When straight upwind pull the fifth line hard to flip the kite on it's back. Work the line + walk over to the edge of the window. As the kite moves to the edge the upper wing will hopefully catch some wind and the kite will perk up. The trick is getting over so that the kite fills and lifts at the edge. Not too tough if you can run over but swimming or snowboarding make this tougher.

I would expect that you can download a manual for a 5th line kite. The manual should be very helpfull . Try and find one even if it isn't the exact same kite. Most 5 line systems back then worked about the same.

I think there will be some overlap with the 2 kites you have now.

power - 22-11-2009 at 09:05 AM

Ok thanks for the info guys. @carl-it is the nemesis I'm talking about, but its actually not a best bar, its a north bar. Does that make it any easier?

Bladerunner - 22-11-2009 at 09:14 AM

Watch out trying to relaunch the way Carl taught you !!!!!!!

It will be more dangerous as the winds pick up. Please learn to relaunch the kite the way they teach you to . Form the edge ! The 5th makes it very do-able.

One of the things with C kites and LEI in general is you almost need an assistant.

power - 22-11-2009 at 10:05 AM

Although it may be a bit more dangerous, at least in lower winds I would like to know how to hot launch. Could you clarify what carl said? I'm not sure what the 'os handles' are he reffered to but I don't think I have them.

Bladerunner - 22-11-2009 at 10:14 AM

The OS handles are just a convenient place to grab + pull your back lines from above your bar. Same as how you reverse launch / back down a foil.

I suppose this will work but it somehow isn't sitting well with me ? I was taught ( by 3 different schools ) to do it different.

My Aero II had a tab on the center trailing edge supposedly for reverse launch with a Fith line. I never tried it and Naish soon dropped it ?

Please be careful.

power - 22-11-2009 at 10:21 AM

Ok I will. Gosh I wish snobdr was here to offer up his LEI experience.

acampbell - 22-11-2009 at 10:25 AM

OS Handles = "Oh Sh*t" handles. The loops on the ends of the lines where they join the outside leaders. OS handles aka landing handles. Used to flag out the kite .

power - 22-11-2009 at 10:29 AM

Is there anyway somebody could post a pic of these? I don't have my bar in front of me but I'm not sure I have them.

acampbell - 22-11-2009 at 11:17 AM

Look here...
http://www.coastalwindsports.com/servlet/the-138/Carbon-Cont...

...and look at the red webbing loops where the lines join the outside leaders. The left one has the safety leash connected to it (the line, not the actual handle).

power - 22-11-2009 at 12:04 PM

Don't have those on my bar. I guess I will have to try rolling it on its back end then bringing it to the edge of the window.

manitoulinkiter1 - 22-11-2009 at 02:09 PM

Hi Again

The hot launch Carl is talking about is exactly like relaunching a foil kite. You could do it by simply pulling both your rear lines and then letting one go after the kite has pulled up off the ground. The kite should spin around and ROCKET upwards. Likely you will get pulled down and dragged in light winds. Don't do this in high winds because the kite is shooting upwards fully powered you may get lofted.
The new slingshot fuels are supposed to relaunch this way I believe.
Try using the fifth line method. Thats how your supposed to relaunch. It,s going to be hard until you get used to it. Then it will just be finicky and difficult.
The newer bow and hybrid kites will relaunch a lot easier and safer for a begginer by himself.

John

carltb - 22-11-2009 at 03:49 PM

the first time i saw a nemesis fly it was actually flying upside down. they do reverse up pretty easilly.
buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut the safest way to relaunch an lei is get it on its back then work it to the edge of the window and launch it from there. (as every one else has said)

power - 22-11-2009 at 06:27 PM

Which lines are the rear lines? The ones attached to the trailing edge of the kite or the ones attached to the leading edge?

Bladerunner - 22-11-2009 at 08:12 PM

Trailing edge / brake / back lines. Same lines you use to back down + reverse launch your Twister.

power - 22-11-2009 at 08:18 PM

But those are the lines that are connected to the edge of the bar, and if I pulled both of them like manitoulinkiter1 said, that would be like sheeting the bar all the way in, as if I were launching the kite with the leading edge facing up. I don't see how this would work with the leading edge facing down as well, correct me if I'm wrong.

Bladerunner - 22-11-2009 at 08:29 PM

I pull on my front ( center ) lines to launch or push the bar away from me . Pull too hard on your back ( brake ) lines and your kite will back down . No way it should take off unless you are reverse launching from nose down?
You seem to have it all proper on the bar but backwards in your head.

power - 22-11-2009 at 08:39 PM

O ya thats right, I do pull on my center lines to launch when the kite's in a normal position. So you're saying that when the kite is leading edge down, I should pull the bar in, and if the kite rises up backwards, I should then just hold onto one edge of the bar for it to steer the kite 180 degrees so its facing upright, correct?

Bladerunner - 22-11-2009 at 09:09 PM

NO .

If you can back the kite up by pulling in the bar you have TOO much tension on the back lines ( sort of )

When you are properly set and pull in the bar you should stall out but not fully fly backwards. You should need to reach up and pull EXTRA brake line to back the kite up.

Same thing with this reverse launch ( that I have never tried ). If your kite is tuned it should take more than pulling in the bar you should have to pull the actual lines from above the bar for it to lift. Once it lifts pull the bar on the side it is tending to turn toward to assist it. Same as the Twister.

power - 22-11-2009 at 09:31 PM

Ok thanks for that info, although I don't know if the hot launch will work even if I do everything right. As long as the tipping on the back, then walking to the edge and then launching works, I'm good.

PHREERIDER - 23-11-2009 at 06:56 AM

the reverse thing works but.. its a snatch.

a 5th line setup makes it easy, quick and controllable . give a little time and tease it closer to edge and it's not as hot

BeamerBob - 23-11-2009 at 07:15 AM

How refreshing to go this long in an LEI thread and everybody is playing nice and offering helpful information. These are the good old days again. :thumbup:

Bladerunner - 23-11-2009 at 07:37 AM

SELF LAUNCH !

You need to set the kite at the edge with the upwind wing folded and weighted down.
Walk to about 45 ' and tug the lines. The downwind tip should catch the wind. It will pop to attention and be sitting at the edge.

You should launch your Twister this way in big wind also.

manitoulinkiter1 - 23-11-2009 at 04:01 PM

Hey Man

Bladerunner is right about my post. Grap the lines as far past the bar as you can reach, but even on both sides. Then pull HARD kite should jump up backwards. Like I said only do that in light winds.
You should probably take a lesson or get someone to show you how to use the fifth line.

John

Woodland - 23-11-2009 at 06:39 PM

Here's a decent vid showing hot to reverse launch. Water guys do it all the time. The locals that use lei's on snow do it too. http://vimeo.com/3275893

manitoulinkiter1 - 23-11-2009 at 07:02 PM

Cool Video

A pictures worth a thousand words, how many are a video worth ?

John

power - 23-11-2009 at 09:12 PM

1000 times how many frames in the video:lol:

carltb - 24-11-2009 at 05:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BeamerBob
How refreshing to go this long in an LEI thread and everybody is playing nice and offering helpful information. These are the good old days again. :thumbup:


;-);-)take that back or you and me are gunna fight!!!;-);-)

bobalooie57 - 24-11-2009 at 06:59 AM

Quote:

How refreshing to go this long in an LEI thread and everybody is playing nice and offering helpful information. These are the good old days again.

Quote:

take that back or you and me are gunna fight!!!

IMHO slammin a guy 4 days after he has been banned shows a certain lack of character!:smilegrin:

carltb - 24-11-2009 at 07:20 AM

do you not see the smiley faces.
it was ment as a joke. i only found out snob was banned today, but even if he wasnt i wouldve posted the same comment.

bobalooie57 - 24-11-2009 at 07:29 AM

I also used smiley! also IMHO, and who am I, just some noob who used to look up to certain mbrs, and having met some in the flesh, and being able to understand their humor, am a little saddened to see them castigated for their humble opinions, however ascerbic (intentionally or not) they might have been expressed.:(

BeamerBob - 24-11-2009 at 07:38 AM

I saw smileys all around regarding this subject so its all good in my book. I too feel remorse to see anyone removed from our community. Said member had something to offer us in equipment knowledge. I very much like the way the mood here is getting back like it was over a year ago though. Sad as it is for someone to be removed, I think it was the right thing to do and the forum is better for it. Most of his opinions weren't humble at all IMHO. Sorry I started a thread hijack. Getting back on track, it looks like LEI's reverse launch no problem.

Bladerunner - 24-11-2009 at 07:55 AM

What I like is that Power now has a good understanding of the two methods and the knowledge of when to use each one.

Two different opinions, neither wrong and both important for Power and others to know.

I never tried to reverse launch my C kites . It looks WAY less dangerous than I imagined ? We ALL learn when we don't fight !

power - 24-11-2009 at 09:59 AM

This friday, we'll see how everything works out. There BETTER be wind!