Power Kite Forum - hubs / tires question for old GI board

hubs / tires question for old GI board

furbowski - 1-1-2010 at 12:33 PM

hiya... I've got an old GI patrol 106 board with gray crosshair hubs and standard ATB tires. I'm looking into getting larger tires, but they have so far only fit on standard black GI hubs, don't know the name... Also my hubs are pretty old, and I'm considering upgrading to vegas hubs... I'm pretty sure they are compatible, but can anyone tell me if they are interchangeable with the crossairs?

In other words: can I swap tires easily between the black GI hubs, the grey crossairs, and the green vegas?

I'll try to post pics, but my track record is hit and miss, let's see how this works.

thanks....

Photo 6.jpg - 71kB

furbowski - 1-1-2010 at 12:35 PM

OK, those are the grey crossairs I have, now here are the black GI hubs... also the big tires I want to put on my grey crossairs...

Big Tires.jpg - 102kB

furbowski - 1-1-2010 at 12:44 PM

And finally for the bling factor, these are the green vegas hubs I'm tempted by. I've got no use for the street tires, but can I put the normal and/or big tires from the previous post onto these hubs?

And I guess the follow-on question is whether the skate trucks in this photo will work with my grey crossair hubs? I'm considering the skate trucks, I've heard they carve better and are easier to learn on, I'm not on a speed quest so I'm not too worried (or should I be???) about speed wobble, but my spots are going to be small (200-300 m sq) and I'd like to be able to adjust turn rate easily, also my current trucks work but they don't carve very well, quite stiff. (old bionic trucks, the ones on the board in the thread link below)

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=11919 (edit: photos have been pulled, there's another later in the thread....)

Green Hubs.jpg - 58kB

f0rgiv3n - 1-1-2010 at 01:56 PM

I've got the vegas hubs!! Those exact ones and they're on the GI standard tires.

brplatz - 1-1-2010 at 02:03 PM

I have the vegas hubs also, on the Balistik Mak tires

Brian

indigo_wolf - 1-1-2010 at 02:08 PM

Crom and Mithra Furbs... just a few questions?

Will try to winnow and field the ones that I can.

So here's what you have:

1 Set of Bionic Trucks
1 Set of Skate Trucks
1 Set of Legacy Black GI Hubs
1 Set of CrossAir Hubs
1 Set of Vegas Hubs
1 Set of Standard ATB Tires
1 Set of Monster Tires
1 Patrol 106 Board

Your question is basically what can you mix and match.

You should be able to mount the Standard ATB tires on either the CrossAirs or Vegas hubs without any problems. For the Legacy Black hubs you are going to have to measure the outer diameter and width of the hubs. You might be able to mount them if there is not to much of a disparity. They might sit and flex a bit differently, but depending on the difference it might still be doable. It would sort of be like "Plus" sizing on street tires for a car.

The Monster tires look like the inner diameters are too small to fit onto the Vegas and CrossAirs. If they won't fit, you can't really force them. There is also another problem (more on this later).

The bearing seats on the CrossAirs and Vegas Hubs should be 28mm. And the inner bearing diameters should be 12mm. These should work fine on the Bionic or Skate trucks as I believe only the Skate Titanium trucks drop down to 9.5mm bearings. You are going to have to measure the bearing seats on the black Legacy Hubs. If they are 28mm and the interal diameter of the bearings are 12mm, you are good to go. Otherwise, you are going to have to spring for another set of bearings that fit in the black hubs with an internal measure of 12mm.

In 2009, the AK and Prodigy were drilled for both Bionic and Skate trucks. In 2010, I believe it is only the AK as they changed the tip angle on the Prodigy. Not sure if the Patrol was drilled for both mounting hole patterns. You can do it yourself with a little care, and the measurements/placement information for the holes.

Skate Trucks usually go on boards with shallow tip angles and Bionic (or channel) trucks usually go on boards with sharp/deep tip angles. The tip angle on the Patrol is fairly deep (like on the AK). To mount skate trucks on them, you can obtain a set of angled risers from GI. They are $5.00 a pair. You should be able to get them from any GI dealer although it is not generally a shelf stock item.

OK.... back to the monster tires. Here's a problem with them. They not only look taller, but they also look wider, and in turns you might experience wheel rub. This could be a problem if you are carrying any kind of speed. I have seen people mount monster (and even WheelEze) tires on mountain boards, but there has usually been some type of axle modification/extension. Without actually seeing all the bits and pieces, it's kind of a hard call.

One last bit that seems to be a new twist (or at least new to me) with regards to carvability. Some people have been reversing the direction of their trucks. On the Bionics, this would place both grind plates facing inwards towards the center of the board. This reduces the wheelbase and raises the center of gravity reducing the turning radius of the board. It also places more stress on the board, but GI's stand on this with their 2010 boards is "Go for it.... our boards can take it." I assume this also applies to the Patrol although you can contact GI to confirm.

I think I got most of your questions, but if not... post back.

All the best,
Sam

furbowski - 1-1-2010 at 03:23 PM

Sam, you rock! :bigok:

I forgot to put an apology in advance for the muddled nature of my Q's :crazy:

but yes you got the basic bit -- mix and match...

the legacy hubs won't be mine, I am considering purchasing the big tires / vegas hubs / skate trucks from jokiter, the legacy blacks (I'm assuming) are on the board he sold recently to someone else. so disregard the legacy blacks. crossairs and vegas mix fine, that's good to hear.

jokiter is currently trying to mount the big tires on the vegas hubs, I hope to hear back from him soon! hopefully he won't mind me taking these Q's so public! :o I know the boys in the UK will trim their boards for added clearance.

I'm reconsidering the carve factor, as I've just had another go on the board (downhill, no kite), and it seems the faster I go the better it carves... but the rain is coming down in buckets and it seems the faster I go the smaller my balls get... :flaming: small problem there LOL. I'm a total newbie when it comes to boards. I just tried taking out the king pin on the trucks to see what color cube is inside... pin comes out fine, but can't get the trucks off to get at the cube... I'll put a photo of that in this post.

If I've got it right, one needs stiffer trucks when one goes from downhilling to kiting, I know BR was telling me in another thread that the two disciplines require different handling / technique.

the board only has one set of holes... dang.

also online the board is equipped with green 16" bionic pro, but IDK if that is what I have... yep I get 15 inches.

I reckon this might be more like a conversation with a bumbling newbie than a clear-cut Q & A, but thanks for the help...

Photo 7.jpg - 59kB

furbowski - 1-1-2010 at 03:28 PM

here's a photo of my board, in case it helps....

Photo 8.jpg - 70kB

indigo_wolf - 1-1-2010 at 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by furbowski
I'm a total newbie when it comes to boards. I just tried taking out the king pin on the trucks to see what color cube is inside... pin comes out fine, but can't get the trucks off to get at the cube... I'll put a photo of that in this post.

Are you having problems removing the trucks because of problems getting the nuts off the bolts or some other reason?

Quote:

Originally posted by furbowski
the board only has one set of holes... dang.

Shouldn't be a showstopper.

Some speculation... in 2009 the AK and Prodigy were drilled for both truck types. I think the assumption was that the AK was a beginner's cruising board and the Prodigy was a beginner's freestyle board. Including both mounting hole patterns meant that you could start out with skate trucks at a lower price point and move up to Bionics when you wanted to upgrade.

The Patrol already came in at a higher price point as an intermediary cruising board and hence only the mounting holes for the Bionics. However, the AK and Patrol have very similar deck profiles with the AK constructed of maple and Patrol constructed of Bomberlite. If you wanted to you could very easily use the same hole patterns on the Patrol that are used on the AK if you wanted to switch back and forth between truck types.

ATB,
Sam

B-Roc - 1-1-2010 at 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by furbowski
I just tried taking out the king pin on the trucks to see what color cube is inside... pin comes out fine, but can't get the trucks off to get at the cube... I'll put a photo of that in this post.

That's the heart bolt / kingpin but not the complete set up, there should be two rectangular cubes in the T3 cube. If you slid only that bolt out you need to slide it back in, put the small diameter nut back on one side and then pull the entire pin set up out - bolt, nut, copper cubes and all.

furbowski - 1-1-2010 at 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by B-Roc

Quote:

that's going to solve the problem, I think... I'll try again later on, tonight's going to be busy with other stuff...

BTW, jokiter tells me he used to run the big tires on the legacy hubs with no problems, he's going to check them on the vegas hubs later.

@ IW -- very good to hear that I might be able to switch trucks around, I don't think jo kiter wants to divvy up the hubs / trucks. Also your speculation about flipping the trucks around is interesting, I may well give that a try at some point.

thanks, everybody... PKF to the rescue! It's been difficult doing the google thing, esp cuz GI has updated their website for 2010 and I haven't been able to find links for legacy support...

:wee:

lynx69 - 1-1-2010 at 11:13 PM

I am with Sam on tire rub. If you ride on uneven/ruff surface and carve hard there is a great possibility of tire rub. Keep us updated on mods. Sounds interesting.

jokiter - 2-1-2010 at 10:11 AM

Hi all,

A little background - I used the big tires on my former GI board (106 cm) with the black Legacy hubs. It worked perfect and there was no rubbing on the board or shoes (shoe size 10).

Last night I tried to mounted the tires on Vegas hubs. It worked as you can see on the following picture, but I'm not sure if the Vegas hubs are durable enough? The Legacy hubs seem stronger and more solid.

@furbowski - I think the big tires would work with you board. You may want to see if you can get cheap Legacy hubs or take the Vegas and try it out

Cheers, Jens

IMG_5881.jpg - 29kB

jokiter - 2-1-2010 at 10:16 AM

Pictures from my GI board (already sold here in the forum)

IMG_5186.jpg - 23kB

jokiter - 2-1-2010 at 10:25 AM

Agree - it looks a bit strange

, but it works perfectly on bumpy grass fields and softer sand. I would not recommend for jumping since you add a few pounds to your board :smilegrin:

indigo_wolf - 2-1-2010 at 10:45 AM

You're in Boston? :o :o :o

Where are you riding in that last picture?

Also, did you get the Primo monster tires from the UK? Primos don't seem to be in great supply in the US.

ATB,
Sam

jokiter - 2-1-2010 at 11:00 AM

Hi Sam,

Yes, I'm living close to Boston. We are usually landboarding at Nahant. Originally I'm from Germany (Munich) so we had only grass field available (last picture). A friend of mine was GI dealer and got those monster tires as demos. He never used it so I bought them and was very happy on bumpy grounds.

Jens

furbowski - 2-1-2010 at 12:30 PM

Hi... I just sent a u2u to jens, I'm going to go for it. FYI, I'm looking to cruise, gonna be a while before I jump, the big tires will open up a lot more areas for me. I'm a newbie to boards of any kind and I do new and risky things slow, so I won't be in a hurry to jump with the board.

I'm a little confused about the skidplate / reversed trucks thing... If you look at my board pic (the one where I'm hiding my face) in the lower right corner, it seems if I were to flip the truck around I would increase the wheelbase and lower the board, exactly the opposite of what IW mentions in his first excellent megapost on this thread... what's up with that?

haven't checked the cubes yet, will soon.

indigo_wolf - 2-1-2010 at 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by furbowski
I'm a little confused about the skidplate / reversed trucks thing... If you look at my board pic (the one where I'm hiding my face) in the lower right corner, it seems if I were to flip the truck around I would increase the wheelbase and lower the board, exactly the opposite of what IW mentions in his first excellent megapost on this thread... what's up with that?

I will try to dig up the posts from another forum where this was being discussed. It might not be today as I have to go into work for a few hours :mad:

Let us know how you get on with the monster tires.

ATB,
Sam

B-Roc - 2-1-2010 at 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by furbowski
it seems if I were to flip the truck around I would increase the wheelbase and lower the board, exactly the opposite of what IW mentions in his first excellent megapost on this thread... what's up with that?

I have those same trucks and when I bought the board one was mounted with the GI logo facing out the other facing in, so I called GI and asked Matt what direction do the trucks go. He said the GI logo ALWAYS faces out. Maybe with the new bionics and decks things have changed but back in '06 I was told to not FLIP the truck.

And, as you say, if you flip your trucks you are going to extend your wheel base and I can't see that helping you carve more quicky.

I do reverse mine from front to back so what was toe side becomes heel side and vice versa every time I break the deck down for a good cleaning but I have never flipped the direction of the trucks themselves.

furbowski - 2-1-2010 at 08:13 PM

OK... negotiations ongoing, but it looks like the sale is going to go ahead one way or the other...

:wee:

I did the bolt thing to get the square copper bits out, thanks B-roc for the tip.

I have yellow cubes... right in the middle of the T3 range.

Had a bit more practice today on the down hill and yes as I get used to it and start to get a little more aggressive the carving keeps getting better, today for the first time I was getting too much carve at times, so I think in actual fact the carving is a beginner issue, much like when many newbies complain about faster kites luffing and tucking at the edges of the window, after a few more hours that problem just kinda goes away. Gotta remember I'm totally new to boards so I started real timid, and I'm still pretty timid cuz no crash gear yet...

I'm also just starting to slide / scrub -- freaks me out though, I lose my balance and can't always catch it back yet.

So today after getting the king-pins out I reversed the trucks for longer wheelbase / lower center of gravity, I'll have another go at the hill tomorrow and see how it behaves. At 155 pounds I doubt I'm going to stress the board.

gonna need new bearing soon as well, 2 of the wheels are fine, but the other two stop after only a couple of rotations when I give them a spin.

edit: bearings are fine, I just had to back off the axle nuts a quarter turn or so... But one of the tires has a shredded sidewall, it looked wobbly earlier, I thought it might be the axle but no that's solid. It's just that the sidewall has expanded a couple mm due to the shredding so the tire is slightly lumpy, don't notice it at all while riding. As long as I'm not doing jumps I'll be fine I reckon. Something to keep a sharp eye on. It's on the only wheel missing a valve stem cap, so I reckon it got run flat for a bit, then pumped back up in a hurry and the cap misplaced.

also found out that lots of the UK folk hate the vegas hubs (not all tho) but I'll go ahead with the deal, I'm gonna want to be able to change tires easily and I'm not going to be doing the pushkite / CTB stuff for while, if ever, for cruising they'll be fine.

I've been going through the UK landboarding forums, reading most of the threads with more than 10 posts, lots of info there... I'd recommend that to anybody reading this and thinking of getting into ATB.

thanks for all the input guys...

:Ange09:

DirtDave1 - 4-1-2010 at 05:52 PM

check out the new crossairs and terraintulas. I know the terraintulas will not hold the bazooka street wheel, but I know the new crossair is the most durable composite hub they have. Also there was a bad batch of vegas hubs at one time if you have an issue just call GI they will take care of you.

furbowski - 4-1-2010 at 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DirtDave1
check out the new crossairs and terraintulas. I know the terraintulas will not hold the bazooka street wheel, but I know the new crossair is the most durable composite hub they have. Also there was a bad batch of vegas hubs at one time if you have an issue just call GI they will take care of you.

good to know about the vegas... I was planning on using them with the 8" tires and the crossairs with the big tires, sounds like I should stick with that plan... But I'm pretty sure the crossairs I have are the old ones, not the new ones, they still look plenty strong though.

the terraintulas look super nice, but I reckon I need to learn to ride the thing first before pimping it up!!!

indigo_wolf - 4-1-2010 at 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by furbowski
the terraintulas look super nice, but I reckon I need to learn to ride the thing first before pimping it up!!!

"Need" ... "Want"... :puzzled: Great googly moogly... it don't get any more confusing than that sometimes :rolleyes:

Is it time to roll the landboard "porn" footage yet?

ATB,
Sam

furbowski - 4-1-2010 at 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by indigo_wolf

Is it time to roll the landboard "porn" footage yet?

ATB,
Sam

no way, mate... I reckon I'm not even at the national geographic boob shot level yet LOL...

my butt is sore tho...

furbowski - 10-2-2010 at 01:37 PM

Jen's tires / trucks / hubs finally made their way up here! big black tires and vegas hubs on the board:

(edit... wonky connection, pic added later, sorry lynx but here ya go!)

bigfoot landboard 96kb.jpg - 97kB

lynx69 - 10-2-2010 at 01:59 PM

Pix, please!

furbowski - 10-2-2010 at 07:10 PM

then after i started to get a first few sloppy heelside slides going, the rim cracked.... Not the vegas problem, I'd forgotten that that one hub had only three screws in it.... forgot! 30 psi btw, now up and running again on 25 psi rear / 30 front and a crossair replacement hub. I'll probably back off the psi again to something like 20 rear / 25 front, I need a little more stickiness.

bigfoot fail 90kb.jpg - 91kB

Suds after thuds - 15-5-2016 at 01:31 PM

Wow, got to the bottom of this thread, and there is my current problem: cracked plastic on a couple of the Vegas hub rims. Bet I have to buy a pair of new wheels, or is there a way of recycling the aluminum? Looks like the plastic parts un bolt...

In the meantime I found a sweet deal on a next shockwave, which could shove this repair to the back burner with just the pilot light on.

indigo_wolf - 16-5-2016 at 08:52 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Suds after thuds

Wow, got to the bottom of this thread, and there is my current problem: cracked plastic on a couple of the Vegas hub rims. Bet I have to buy a pair of new wheels, or is there a way of recycling the aluminum? Looks like the plastic parts un bolt...

You might want to double check. I seem to remember that the center of the Vegas hub being made out of plastic with metallic paint. I don't think there is much in the way of aluminum anywhere in the hub.

Considering a full set of Vegas hubs weighed in at less than 1/2 a pound pretty sure everything except the nuts and bolts were some flavor or nylon, ABS, or other plastic.

ATB,
Sam