Power Kite Forum

HQ Neo.... Modified Arc?

f0rgiv3n - 10-2-2010 at 12:28 PM

So.... I got to thinkin...(yeah, i know... NOT good.) while looking at the neo and some pics it kinda seemed to me like arcs and the neo have very similar characteristics. Both are technically "twin skin", have a zipper for fast inflation, have "closed cell" inflation valves on the top. The shape of the neo is pretty similar too, just not as much of an "arc" as the "arcs" rofl... Am I way off? They just seem to use the same sort of wind technology but are just a bit tweaked to be different

awindofchange - 10-2-2010 at 12:38 PM

A better comparison would be the Neo to that of the Flysurfers. Those two kites look nearly identical in shape and design. The overall shape of the ARC's to the NEO's is quite different with the ARC's having more of a "C" shape design and the NEO's being much flatter. Also, the NEO"s are a fully bridled foil, using the ribs and bridles to support the wings shape. The ARC's use internal pressure and panel design to form their shape with no bridling at all (except the VPC on the wing tips of the newer models). As far as the other features (intake vents, twinskin, zippers...., yea, they are quite similar.

Maven454 - 10-2-2010 at 12:39 PM

The Neo isn't nearly as arc shaped, has a bridle, and is primarily intended to inflate through the vents not being prefilled. You'd be more accurate to compare it (design wise) to the Flysurfers (except the Outlaw).

f0rgiv3n - 10-2-2010 at 12:45 PM

ok i gotcha :D . Thanks for the info. I haven't even seen one in person so I didn't know how flat they were and good point about them using bridles to support the shape where the arcs use internal pressure. Very interesting.

lad - 10-2-2010 at 12:47 PM

Our friends at HQ are not exactly known for, um,
"from scratch innovation."* :rolleyes:
Sometimes not even disguising the names! (Ozone's stable beginners depower = Access, HQ's = Apex)

At least they didn't name the Neo "SlySurfer" or something like that.

*Not that I would mind having a Neo II or Montana IV for myself - quite the opposite... :smilegrin:

markite - 10-2-2010 at 01:01 PM

Quote:
"SlySurfer"

don't give jonesband (glileshop) any ideas

PHREERIDER - 10-2-2010 at 01:29 PM

they do have similar parts. but truly unique design .

neo is in FS class technology, bridle closed cell with variable AOA (AS AWOC noted)

FS has the jet flap thing. i really haven't put much thought into that, but somebody did!

the arc has very unique design cell shape , the concave LE and shoulder webbing truly one a kind . the depower- like flying characteristics is really more pressure/ shape related than variable AOA approach. really incredible design, gadget free and super simple. though the newer arcs appear to have more AOA in the mix but still all arc.

herc - 11-2-2010 at 07:19 AM

i always wonder how arcs are able to keep their profile shape with no supporting bridles. i mean - bridled foils usually have a, b,c and d line groups that support the profile.
but arcs have only a,b and c support through the internal straps/webbing. how can this be enough to support a lower aspect ratio arc? why doesnt the profile collapse if the bar is pulled in hard ? just because of the internal pressure ? or is there something special about the ribs forming the profile?

@PHREERIDER: very interesting that the depower comes more from profile deformation than from AoA changes !

PHREERIDER - 11-2-2010 at 10:36 AM

load rate dispersion and cycle fatigue of the materials has to be weighed in, but for the human scale it is like polymer wings.

a true polyamide high.

herc - 11-2-2010 at 10:41 AM

maybe this might be the reason there is no ultra light "deluxe" version of arc kites ! because the stress on the cloth would be too high ?

Kamikuza - 11-2-2010 at 06:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by herc
i always wonder how arcs are able to keep their profile shape with no supporting bridles. i mean - bridled foils usually have a, b,c and d line groups that support the profile.
but arcs have only a,b and c support through the internal straps/webbing. how can this be enough to support a lower aspect ratio arc? why doesnt the profile collapse if the bar is pulled in hard ? just because of the internal pressure ? or is there something special about the ribs forming the profile?


My impression of bridles is that they're not used to maintain profile shape, as much as they're used to spread load and maintain a stable AoA across the chord (?) of the airfoil. Without the B, C etc bridle lines the kite would try to fly with as little AoA into the wind and we'd get no pull - like a sail on a boat allowed to flap around, unsheeted.

I don't imagine there needs to be much of a pressure difference inside and outside an arc for it to maintain profile shape - after all, it's just a giant sail on the end of strings ... a little pressure to maintain the shape will stop it trying to fold in half lengthwise ...

But I'm just guessing ;-)

PHREERIDER - 11-2-2010 at 08:07 PM

KK is right on with the load on the bridle but would be the span i believe. the chord i believe is forward stability and wing balance front to back perpendicular to the span

the top skin high negative pressure on either is the additive shaping element along with internal pressure. materials are well matched for stress and load. but if you have ever slammed one LE down full speed threshold limits will be apparent with seam rupture . the stitching cuts the nylon like a knife @ the cell wall skin union.