Power Kite Forum

neo2 11m second flight !

highazakite - 16-2-2010 at 08:49 PM

Yet another nooby asking the ones that hopefully know better than him topic, sorry.

Ive entertained the idea of taking up kite surfing for about 2 years now, decided its time so im almost ready to buy a neo2 11m and a liquid force wfl 140 (for lack of any board knowledge and price point for sure). thought id fly it buy you guys first to have a go at it.

Bio
I live about 2 hours north of San Fransisco about 40 min inland from Fort Bragg wind range is usually a consistent 5-10mph every after noon, some days it does get better 10-15 25 tops (storm or pressure change) . i am 200lb or less 5'5. Live right next to lake Mendocino and quite close to clear lake, where i expect ill spend most of my time in the beginning.

I've flown 2 line stunt kites from small to big since i was 12 or so (35 now) just got a hydra 350 to try out hq's quality and was impressed. i am not going to pretend i can handle any kite but id call my flying skills abit above most. i can make a kite go where i want it to for the most part, and understand and damn near flirt with the wind. also have a few years as first mate on sailing boats from 20' to 45'.

My questions would be will this kite work for kite boarding in such light wind?
Will i need to get another size real soon to be able to stay up. or will it over power me as i try to learn to kite surf?
Will my board keep me going for at least the first year? or will i be needing something different real soon?

As a side note when i first started looking i fell in love with how sexy the flysurfer speed 3 's are, and wanted one for a hot minute, then oogled at the charges, but as a person who has started way more than one hobby ive learned to start on the cost effective side and build if i fall in love with it.
ah well i think ive asked enough to get the topic started, any and all welcome to input.

DAKITEZ - 16-2-2010 at 09:16 PM

I have a 11m here. I haven't had a chance to fly it yet. Come on down and well give it go.

My guess you will need more than 10mph to get going on H2o

stetson05 - 16-2-2010 at 09:41 PM

I have a Neo 1 11m and it will fly in 5-10 but it wouldn't get me going on water. I can start to roll on my landboard in thick grass at about 10mph. I haven't heard that the neo2 has more power but an improved safety and bar I think.

sp4cem0nkey - 16-2-2010 at 11:44 PM

I think it would get you going pretty good on a landboard on the beach with a 10mph onshore wind. On water.... I doubt it.

highazakite - 17-2-2010 at 12:54 AM

hmmm. The fascination is getting out on the water with a kite. Im not into getting more skinned up knees elbows and whatnot, (i got a motorcycle for that) Should i be thinking about the neo 14m then? The other option i was looking into was a charger 15m. Would that get me going for the 10 mph days? Would the 11m work on the days it gets to 15mph or so? lol i already understand im asking for the one shot deal and there is a reason every one has more than one kite. i guess my main goal is to get out on the water on id say 7 to 20 mph range.

stetson05 - 17-2-2010 at 07:44 AM

I think the neo would get you going arround 13-15mph. It would seem like the 14 would do better but some people seem unsure. best bet is to try and fly one like Dakitez offered

PHREERIDER - 17-2-2010 at 08:05 AM

around 160 lbs.(maybe 180) the 11m should be great in 12-15mph on the water to start. any heavier, board compensation may be needed . but in general should fine.

10-12mph is doable. this is a skill element with no current in the mix. fun versatile kite . like a bargain FS

highazakite - 17-2-2010 at 08:42 AM

Yea dakitez's offer has me pondering how/when i can do a road trip, and if the winds in galt are close to mine, heh.
I did some scanning on ikitesurf in its archived wind speeds for my area and it appears i was correct on the wind being about 10mph every after noon in the summer, this mixed with about 5 to 10 days getting almost 20's. So does this mean ill sit around jonesing for those 5 day,s a month with the 11m ?
oh and phreerider yea it is the budget fs for me ;-) .looks like you may know something about boards does this one
http://www.calikites.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_50...
look like it will work? ( i have studied kites quite abit ,boards not so much)
Any way thanks for all the input so far.

_thephantom_ - 17-2-2010 at 11:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by highazakite
I did some scanning on ikitesurf in its archived wind speeds for my area and it appears i was correct on the wind being about 10mph every after noon in the summer, this mixed with about 5 to 10 days getting almost 20's. So does this mean ill sit around jonesing for those 5 day,s a month with the 11m ?


no its the other way around.

10mph is just under 9 knots, you will not be kitesurfing on the water in 9 knts on a NEO 11 - as a beginner -in my experience. A 14 may do - just. But its marginal

On the 5 to 10 days at 20mph you will.

Thats where the cost of a large FS needs to be weighed up against kiteable days.

acampbell - 17-2-2010 at 12:53 PM

From talking to Craig at HQ I get the idea that the 14m Neo is more for the heavier rider, 200 lbs/ 14 stone needing more grunt on the water. The added weight and slower turning will not give it a lower low end than than the 11. He thinks it would be too much for most on snow and too much for anyone on land.

highazakite - 23-2-2010 at 08:46 AM

Well i looked into the flysurfers and while they look way cool and probably better for what im trying to do i decided the neo2 11m was a better deal. Ordered all my stuff last night (dino ya need to stock leashes if your selling these i would think).

i would like to thank all who provided input it was appreciated and think you guys have shined a realistic light on the gear im getting. thanks.

ill update when i get and what i think.

acampbell - 23-2-2010 at 09:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by highazakite
(dino ya need to stock leashes if your selling these i would think).


Not Dino's bad; those leashes have not been available to dealers until just now. Lord knows it's caused me grief, LOL.

Drewculous - 23-2-2010 at 11:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by acampbell
Quote:
Originally posted by highazakite
(dino ya need to stock leashes if your selling these i would think).


Not Dino's bad; those leashes have not been available to dealers until just now. Lord knows it's caused me grief, LOL.


lol... :smug:

highazakite - 23-2-2010 at 04:52 PM

hahah acampbell , is that the leash that got you roasted as the most evil business guy in the world? I could not help but shake my head reading that post. Almost went to your site and bought something just a a consolation for having to endure. I found a north leash from calikites as i ordered my board from them, any leash will do yea? all the same just some diff ways to do the same thing? any way just sent my life history email back to dino so he will sell me my kite, gota hand it to the guy he cares. any way back to work for now.

DAKITEZ - 23-2-2010 at 05:00 PM

thanks for the order. I did not put two and two together on this one. I did just get your life history :) to be honest if it were not for this thread I probably wouldn't have sold it to you :lol:

Angus is correct on the leashes. They are in stock and I am sending you one for free with the kite. So send your other leash back. i will have your tracking info emailed to you shortly.

highazakite - 23-2-2010 at 05:04 PM

Now stoked as i run out the door to get back to work.
thanks dino for the leash you have at least one word of mouth advertiser for your dedication.

acampbell - 23-2-2010 at 05:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by highazakite
hahah acampbell , is that the leash that got you roasted as the most evil business guy in the world? I could not help but shake my head reading that post. Almost went to your site and bought something just a a consolation for having to endure. I found a north leash from calikites as i ordered my board from them, any leash will do yea? all the same just some diff ways to do the same thing? any way just sent my life history email back to dino so he will sell me my kite, gota hand it to the guy he cares. any way back to work for now.


Yeah thanks for getting the reference; that was a nasty insect bite! But thanks for the charitable thoughts. You are in good hands with Dino and he will take good care of you.

Most of our US suppliers are extremely reliable (well then there is Ozone) but it appears to be a universal problem with NEW products, and the HQ leashes are a typical example where the producer does not always know when the first delivery will come out. Same with Peter Lynn and Flexi.

tridude - 24-2-2010 at 05:13 AM

you will need 13/14 mph with the correct board, and skillz to get going...............16/17 would be lower third to midrange for that size...................for 10kts/10mph none of the aforementioned kites will get the job done on water..................................

highazakite - 24-2-2010 at 08:46 AM

Quote:

or 10kts/10mph none of the aforementioned kites will get the job done on water..................................



I have realized this and accept that 10mph on water is a very specialized and hard to attain tridude. So im going with the affordable introduction and shoot for the windier days. I may decide at a latter date to try for the low wind setup. I only live about and hour from the coast so worst case i can drive on over and wind-ranges are generally about right there. Thanks for the input.
Quote:

null

PHREERIDER - 25-2-2010 at 07:46 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by highazakite

oh and phreerider yea it is the budget fs for me ;-) .looks like you may know something about boards does this one
http://www.calikites.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_50...
look like it will work? ( i have studied kites quite abit ,boards not so much)
Any way thanks for all the input so far.


too small for those conditions , maybe if you where <140lbs.

a floaty directional about 6' , skim board for sure, but a bit of kite and riding skills to go with it. light air on the water is challenging to work with. in the beginning you want confident power , you will gain better riding skills well powered.

tridude - 25-2-2010 at 08:48 AM

good call High..................I scoped out the local winds for a good year before I went with light wind gear...........most of us have to balance family, job, etc into the equation too. Ive flown the 11m Neo 1 anf the 8m N1 proto...............I liked them alot..........flying characteristcs and bar pressure basically the same as the Flysurfer Pulse...................good luck and if you need any tips etc let us know..........................

highazakite - 25-2-2010 at 09:07 PM

Well callikites.com wins the first ups truck at my door prize (hand out a cookie).
Got my wfl140 assembled and it looks nice for the cheapest new board i could find.
Thanks again for the info phreerider, it may just get handed down to my daughter for her light wind board, she is 12 and probably wont be 140lb for a while.
And tridude thanks for the moral support and making me believe i went the right way.
Ill do pictures tomorrow when i have some time

highazakite - 2-3-2010 at 05:29 PM

Was on my porch when i got home for lunch. The kid and i had the containing box shredded in 2.2 seconds. Wow is the 11m neo2 big! The green is an awesome color, did i say it was big? id take pictures of it but i hate picks of flat kites on the floor so ill wait till my harness gets here and take a shot or 2 all blown up, (saved a couple of bucks buying harness on sale, now its on the slowest truck from the east coast to cali,:no: ah well.) thanks again for the safety harness dakitez, the extra mile is appreciated.

pigryder - 2-3-2010 at 05:54 PM

yeh kite get some pics up asap :thumbup:

highazakite - 4-3-2010 at 08:25 PM

Ok took it out to the park. 0mph wind to sort the lines and check it out, tried out my go pro and did my first youtube upload (a couple of first's today) I used the windows 7 live movie maker after recording in go pros 720p. Quick clip but tell me if it looks alright and the hd works if ya care to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8kPMZ-4MUI

DAKITEZ - 4-3-2010 at 08:39 PM

they sure look big laying on the ground like that :shocked2:

Make sure you have the camera rolling on your first flight!

lunchbox - 4-3-2010 at 09:56 PM

Damn...shouldn't have looked at the video...nice kite...now I want one ;-)

highazakite - 4-3-2010 at 11:46 PM

Yea lunchbox it looks way better in the light, was shot after the sun had went over the mountain.The green and silver set off with the orange is just perfect. When i was looking at the online pics i liked it... but when i pulled it out it far exceeded my expectations.

Well good news (kinda) harness just landed in Sacramento from it's long journey from the east coast. Just might get to my door on time tomorrow.

Should even attempt to static fly this thing or should i wait for my wetsuit and hit the water?
Forecast calls for 7mph on sat and 10 on sunday. Sounds on the safer side on sat. Id love to get it in the air and feel it. (yea dino the gopro will be going)
ill wait on input from some others wiser than me.
i have no desire to get hurt.

stetson05 - 5-3-2010 at 12:34 AM

I would fly it static to get used to it before hitting the water.
Good Luck

lunchbox - 5-3-2010 at 11:51 AM

Quote:

I would fly it static to get used to it before hitting the water.


Yep...I second that. Definitely get comfortable with your kite before you hit the water. As with any new kite, start with light winds to get the feel of the kite and how it flies! 7-10mph you should be fine.

Have fun...looking forward to seeing the vid!

pigryder - 5-3-2010 at 02:38 PM

Yes vid time, awesome!

highazakite - 7-3-2010 at 04:18 PM

Well i got to go out and fly it! kinda. first no wind. then it would come and go. then it just got scary gusty packed it up. will post vid after i get done with family event.

highazakite - 7-3-2010 at 10:51 PM

Alright here is the vid of me trying to fly the neo2 11m (aka tank) around today. Wind did not cooperate much at all. kept trying to fall outa the sky and the next second wanted to pull me like i was connected to a dump truck. Forecast called for 10mph max for the day, well we got no wind to start with then light and poppy then downright strong with large gusts. Checked ikitesurf for Ukiah and looks like i was fighting 12-13mph (not steady) with 16-18 mph gusts, bagged it right after the first mean gust and went for my hydra 350. Only to watch it snatch my kid into the air for i quick but scary for a parent hop.




i guess i feel a lil disappointed i never felt like i was in charge of it but i guess i got to work at it and with some help from the wind gods i will get it. Ive got a few questions on flying with a depower bar (new to me)
i get how its supposed to work pull in = more power faster turn let out =try to stay on the ground and hard to steer and pretty much falls outa the sky, do i need to adjust or was the wind just piss poor?
This kite does not feel like it was meant to fly static at all feels like i should be on some thing that moves.
Reverse launch? tried the strap the connects the 2 steering lines but id be damned if it even twitched off the ground, again maybe wind was just not with me.

Kamikuza - 8-3-2010 at 12:40 AM

Piss-poor wind blows all the theory out the windows ... looks like you've got total crap there :lol:

arkay - 8-3-2010 at 01:10 AM

yup, piss poor wind. If the wind is constant, but poor then you're best bet to keep it in the sky is to use gravity to speed the kite down towards the gound at the edge of the window then turn it in towards the power zone and fly it across the middle of the window to the top of the other side of the window then down, and repeat. Generally when people fly figure eights they use the edge of the window to climb the kite, which is great if there's wind and you're trying not to get too much power, but if there's no wind the edge of the window can't sustain the kite. So what you basically need to do is to fly the 'standard' figure eight 'backwards'. Jsut don't do this if the wind is in consistent or strong as you'll be flying a big kite thru the middle of the power zone :spin:

acampbell - 8-3-2010 at 06:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by highazakite

i get how its supposed to work pull in = more power faster turn let out =try to stay on the ground and hard to steer and pretty much falls outa the sky, do i need to adjust or was the wind just piss poor?

Pretty much but "pull in= more power" only happens in motion (see below). In light winds in fact, letting out the bar might give you more power, since it will speed up he kite rather than stall it. Kind of bass-ackwards.
Quote:

This kite does not feel like it was meant to fly static at all feels like i should be on some thing that moves.


EXACTLY. Going to de-power gives you a gearbox (center strap) and a throttle (bar). Flying it static is like driving it around the parking lot in 1st gear - you won't derive the benefit. Like an auto, put it in the wrong gear (strap out) and hit the gas (bar in), it will stall if going too slow.

Quote:

Reverse launch? tried the strap the connects the 2 steering lines but id be damned if it even twitched off the ground, again maybe wind was just not with me.


If the Neo will fly at all, then it will reverse launch, so I suspect flakey winds, as others have confirmed.

I flew the 11m Neo 2 in steady 6-8 mph winds the other day- the workable low end for the Neo 1 - but with the added weight of the fifth line, it needs two more, like 7-8 to 10, I think. But it reversed launched fine in a puff after it fell and rolled in a lull

highazakite - 8-3-2010 at 08:39 AM

Thanks for the wisdom all.
I need to figure out how to properly use the trim strap, from the skimpy description in manual pulled in=more power, out=less. With how it would gust i did not want to have the kite fully powered and catch a gust and throw me on my first try. But i imagine in low winds i want it more pulled in yes ? i think the wind was not helping out any to give me a good feel of how it affected the turning and falling out of the sky.

Quote:

but with the added weight of the fifth line, it needs two more, like 7-8 to 10, I think. But it reversed launched fine in a puff after it fell and rolled in a lull


No kidding! im not sure what they where thinking. from the looks of it they added another entire bridle just for safety, looks like they could have just piggy backed onto the original bridle in the correct places. but like it is now its got 2 entire bridles on it. But i guess if you get hammered for your lack of safety on the previous model you tend to over compensate the next time round, i bet the neo3 will improve this a lil bit.
Again thanks for the input guys i learn allot from all who try to help.

highazakite - 17-3-2010 at 12:06 AM

Was at work,
Every flag on was hanging drearily from its pole.
The sun has been out for 3 days now, the fields are getting solid.
All the fruit trees are in full bloom.
Im pulling tire's off the hundred thousandth gar ive changed the oil on.
It happened all at once.. the flags popped to attention.. a mix of pink and white petals flew like snow across the ground. The wind had come, not some crappy gust and its gone back to another gust, it was firm and unwavering.
The tires flew back on (i know this is the last job in my box for the day and if get it done before they have more work for me im outa there!)
topped off the oil as i stripped off my work shirt threw the paper work in the done basket and i was leaving a cloud of dust off the lot before they knew what hit them.

Got the the field just as some hazy clouds filled the sky but the wind is still going 7-9 mph solid.
un rolled the neo2 and untangled the bridles again, set up and yarded it into the sky. It slowly fluttered about as it filled up, by the time i was done going from the center to the edge it was full. Started out almost completely de-powered. This run was nothing like the first try i was in charge of it, well as much as one can be in charge of a dump truck in the sky. I flew it all over the place for about an hour, had to take a couple of breaks to rest but was a good time to test the safety system, worked just as it should both tips folded back and it went to the ground.
over all a good time, cant wait for my wetsuit so i can get out on the water.



Now for the noob questions.
Maybe its cuz i have a belly or because ive got short arms but i have a hard time keeping both hands on the bar unless i have it fully pulled in. Can i adjust it without loosing throw? If i can i don,t see how yet.

Second the safety bridles going out the the tips seem to be tangled with the control bridles each time i unroll it. Should i leave bar lines hooked up instead to try and keep it together or is it better to take them off every time like i do?

Maven454 - 17-3-2010 at 02:25 AM

With the exception of arcs, most people leave the lines on depower foils.

mgatc - 17-3-2010 at 04:55 AM

Kite looked very smooth. Nice downloops. Have you deployed the safety yet and if so, how did it work and how quickly did it take to get it flying again?

DAKITEZ - 17-3-2010 at 09:15 AM

the trimmer strap question ... yes in lighter winds have the strap in. this will cause the kite to fly faster, but at the same time it will make the steering have much less response. Start with the strap all the way in and slowly let it back out to get the happy medium of steering and speed to keep the kite in the air.

Not sure on the neo 2 because I have still not flown mine yet, but it more than likely has a series of knots where the power lines connect to the bar leaders. You can make adjustments there also for lighter and heavier winds. Most commonly use it in the center knot though. These knots do the same thing as pulling the strap all the way in or out, but then with the strap now you have a fresh new length to pull. if that makes sense. Basically if you are on the center knot and you pull the strap all the way in you can switch to the next knot closer to the bar and put the strap all the way back out and you should be in about the same flying position. You would only do this if you were on the center knot with the strap all the way in and you needed more.

Tangled question ... leave it all connected. The only reason why some people disconnect them is if they use the bar on multiple kites. Your not doing this at this point so just leave it connected. If you feel you must disconnect make sure you secure the bridles, don't just throw them all together. Not sure if the neo 2 has the velcro keepers to hold the bridles together or not, but if not make a larks head knot on one of the bridles and put the connection points for the main lines and brake lines into that larkshead to secure them. Then do the same on the other side.
But if you keep everything connected you shouldn't have a problem ... and one more tip don't put the bar inside the kite with all the bridles when you pack up. Keep the bar on the outside of the kite away from all the bridles. I found with the neo 1 it was easiest to fold the kite in half. Then put your bar at the tips and roll towards the center pushing all the air out of the zipper. I think Angus gave me that advise.

highazakite - 17-3-2010 at 02:30 PM

Thank you for the tips dakitez.
Any suggestions on not quite being able to let the bar all the way out due to short arms/belly that sticks out some ?

mgatc yea did feel really smooth, down loops took so room but had balanced power throughout the loop. Yes i did use the safety about 5 times just to try it out and know how it works. All but once it folded in half and went straight down, no flipping or tangles, one time i had it sideways to nose down and it flipped a few rolls before coming down i thought it had tangled but after some just sitting on the ground after hooking back in it righted itself and jumped to the sky. adds to the confidence factor for taking t to the water

Another question/ guidance im looking for is reverse launch, out of the 7 time i tried only got it to do it once .should i let the trim strap out to rev launch or leave it in?
Again thanks for the input all :smilegrin:
back to work for me

chris - 17-3-2010 at 03:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by highazakite
Another question/ guidance im looking for is reverse launch, out of the 7 time i tried only got it to do it once .should i let the trim strap out to rev launch or leave it in?


Sounds as if the winds were too light. The position of the trim strap has no effect. In these conditions you must choke up on the backlines. Let go of the bar and grab the lines beyond the black reverse launch strap and pull. The lighter the wind, the further up the lines you'll need to pull. Hope that helps.

Chris

highazakite - 17-3-2010 at 06:35 PM

Further up the lines it is, thanks ill try it.
Any one else with short arms and a belly know how to deal with reaching the bar with both hands, or is it just supposed to be a one hand deal ?

Frathouse - 17-3-2010 at 06:41 PM

Okay couple of things about the Neo2 I've had mine for a couple of months now. I love it because its a big powerful cruiser of a kite. I've had great success with it both snowkiting, in my buggy, and I'm taking it out on thw water this weekend. To answer the question on packing up the bar and lines, the best way I have found is to wrap not only the lines but the part of the bridle that has the pulleys on to the bar. The pulleys are what usually foul the bridle when un-packing the kite. If they are on the bar they don't have a chance to pass through the bridle lines.

I'm not sure about Dakitez advice it doesn't sound right to me, though I may try it sometime. I only pull the depower line (clamcleat line) in shorting the frontline's when I feel overpowered in strong winds. The kite should fly faster but it won't have much power unless your in strong winds and may overfly up over the zenith and flip over the leading edge. It's not fun to untangle the lines after that.

To reverse launch I have found that pulling landing strap is helpful getting it up in the air. I then quickly grab the brake line in the direction I want it to turn (farther out than the landing strap) which turns the kite out of leading edge down.

Hope that's helpful

Kamikuza - 17-3-2010 at 06:46 PM

The sheeting/depower line alters the Angle of Attack, I assume on the Neo too, so in light winds you don't want the kite angled hard into the wind and creating too much drag - and stalling.

highazakite - 17-3-2010 at 06:51 PM

Frat thank you. That is an excellent idea on the pulleys as i know that is what i have to pull out of the 5 or so different bridles they fell through.
im also kinda glad you said you have used it for bugging as the description omitted buggies as a possibility. I was trying to figure out how it could be that it wasn't suitable for a buggy.
pkf community officially rocks!

highazakite - 17-3-2010 at 06:56 PM

kami, the only reason i have it sheeted in is because im a noob that does not want to get yarded down field. When i sheet it out it pulls way harder than i can hold onto static. My wetsuit gets here tomorrow i hope, the water is just below 50 deg f =10c, way to cold for me even if i have my insulating layer. So i have it sheeted in to try it out before im in the water trying to figure it all out.

pbc - 17-3-2010 at 07:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by highazakite
kami, the only reason i have it sheeted in is because im a noob that does not want to get yarded down field. When i sheet it out it pulls way harder than i can hold onto static. ...


Flying any engine that is generating enough power even for buggying is much easier in (or on) your vehicle. It's sooo much easier to steer toward the kite when the load spikes to let a little pressure off. In the process you get a burst of speed while you steer the kite toward the edge of the window then you cut back up wind with all that momentum you just acquired. Much easier, more fun, an--once you get the hang of it--a lot safer.

Philip

clintopher - 18-3-2010 at 06:30 PM

Since hitting the water is your goal I'd recommend getting a lesson or two. Also, check out the local vibe at what ever beaches you'll be going to. There's a lot of beaches these days that have banned kitesurfing and that's made a lot of kiters protective of there beaches. If you go out there without knowing what you're doing or what the local rules are you might not receive a real warm welcome. Just food for thought.

highazakite - 18-3-2010 at 09:29 PM

Yea closest beach that even has somewhat of a kitesurfing crowd is bodega bay 2+ hours away. They have lessons there as well. I plan to give it a try on my local lake to get water starts down before i spend all of the high priced lesson time figuring it out. Lessons are going to happen. I took a 2 day course for my motorcycle after a year of riding it and i gained allot more from the training because i knew what i the areas i needed to ask about.
also plan on waiting for summer as well.