gilbert - 20-6-2005 at 07:03 AM
hello lads.
i have just bought a 5m kite off ebay, after being dissapointed by this crappy 3m kite that didnt let me jump!
i can control the kites ok but no doubt i will get better
what would be your advice to a guy like me? somthing about not doing a straight jump ive heard?
cheers:frog:
Bill_Benson - 20-6-2005 at 08:50 PM
What 5 meter did you get?
gilbert - 21-6-2005 at 03:27 AM
it is an Epic 5m pig i think its called.
not heard of them before but the kite looks pretty good. aspect ration is 5 and it has 30 cells to it. do you think it will be enough? cheers
http://www.everybodyhasthem.com/products/x5intro.htm
Lack-O-Slack - 18-7-2005 at 10:37 AM
My advice to a guy like you, Gilbert, is PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, find a private place to jump, or give up jumping and go straight to landboards or
buggies. Jumping with no wheels under you will break something, sooner or later. And when you break something, somebody loses insurance coverage, or
gets banned from the place where your accident occurred, or worse yet, you wind up in a wheelchair for the rest of your life.
Hear this: traction kites are not intended for lifting you in the air. They are designed to generate traction, not lift, and they will not sustain
flight. It's just a matter of time until you get face-planted or worse, and then it's too late.
I've seen many pictures on web-sites of young kiters proudly holding up their bleeding elbows for the camera, or showing off the road-rash from their
last bad buggy crash. This will get us banned everywhere; it is a stupid, macho practice and anyone who "celebrates" an injury is, quite simply, an
idiot who will ruin things for those with better sense.
To date, this sport is self-policiing, through advice like you've requested here. So we old-timers give the advice, which many ignore, and to their
peril. There is nothing "manly" about doing things stupidly or dangerously, especially when this behavior gets the attention of law enforcement or
land management authorities.
Get a buggy, get a landboard if you like getting air, and at least get full safety equipment, and if you MUST jump, do it AWAY FROM PUBLIC VIEW.
There's your advice... do with it what you will.
fightingfish - 18-7-2005 at 03:34 PM
i'm flying an Ozone Samurai 4M. just recently i've begun trying to jump. the problem i'm having is the wind seems to go die out every time i get to
the park.
what i've been trying is the pendulum jump technique. imagine that the wind window has numbers like the face of a clock. the zenith(directly above
you) is 12.
1)what i've been trying is running to my right with the kite going in the same direction at about 2-3o'clock. also, running slightly back into the
wind seems to help.
2)then i've been pulling hard on the left line so that the kite sweeps back towards the center of the wind window.
3)pull the kite up the center of the window towards 12o'clock while jumping in the same direction i've been running.
when done right the kite sweeps back into the power zone just as i jump and swing out in the other direction. it provides some lift and swings the
jumper around to be facing the center of the wind window. i belive this would be the safest method, as the jumper keeps momentum going with the run
and swing. i cannot be held liable to injury, because this is dangerous, and wind changes. i don't condone this kind of kiting for others.
for a graphical description of how one may attempt this check: http://www.kitezone.co.uk/powerkiting/pkamenu.html
i've been wearing a helmet and knee, elbow pads.
Bill_Benson - 18-7-2005 at 07:08 PM
The Sami is not a great jumping kite and at 4.0 meters is pretty small. 5 meters and above will give you nice floatier landings. The Sami like the
Bullet are better used for buggying. If you really want to jump grab a Blade III, Ozone Riot or a similiar high aspect kite.
kitemaker4 - 18-7-2005 at 08:08 PM
Well said Lack-o-slack. I agree with everything you said. We need to be careful out there and stay safe.
Susan
fightingfish - 18-7-2005 at 10:36 PM
thanks for the input on the sami, Bill. i bought my sam as an intro to traction kiting. it's been a great kite to learn on...and it works well as a
buggy engine when there's enough wind (15+mph).
i've been trying to jump with it, just kinda to learn the basic technique. if i may ask a question, "the blade III's are a good kite for pull and
lift, right?..meaning they are good for pulling a buggy and jumping a buggy?"
to the other 'safety-conscious' posters- i completely agree with keeping oneself, bystanders, and locations safe. in my youth i was an avid street
skateboarder. skaters get kicked out of just about every spot they try to practice their sport at. reasons range from vandalism(waxing curbs), to
rudeness and disregard, to insurance liability. so i whole heartedly agree that safety for the kiters, general public, and locations is paramount.
although new to traction kiting, i am very aware of the responsibility that goes with its participation. personally, i feel it is a shame that we
live in such a lawsuit happy world.
-fightingfish
Bill_Benson - 19-7-2005 at 03:30 AM
Yeah, the Sami is a great kite... very smooth, stable and responsive and one you probably won't grow out of. My 5 meter will fly in very, very little
wind and is a blast when the wind comes up. But as I said IMHO it is better as a buggy engine than anything else.
Blade III's are in a sense like kiteurfing LEI's in that they provide more overhead lift (as well as lateral pull), something you may or may not want
when buggying and therefore are better for jumping.
Since the subject of jumping and safety has appeared in this thread, I want to address this as well. In my humble opinion flying large high
performance "traction" kites is inherently a dangerous activity (even flying small ones in higher winds). If you are going to fly power kites you
should be prepared to be lifted off of the ground. I personally have been lofted higher when pulled out of my buggy by a gust with a Bullet (which is
not designed for great lift) than anytime I have intentionally attempted a jump.
I believe jumping is a valid activity in this sport, but like everything else it should be done with all safety measures and education (helmet, pads,
don't tether etc). I don't know how that jumping with an ATB or buggy would make it less dangerous. I think being whacked by your buggy or turtleing
may present more of a risk to bodily harm than standalone jumping, but that's just me.
And on the saftey issue and jumping here are some things that can increase your safety factor when jumping: fly at a beach (not hard packed) when it
is unoccupied or you have a large unobstructed area. Fly larger kites in less wind, for jumping I like to go 5 meters and up in the evening when the
winds are smoother and around 10 mph (ish). A large kite will put you down softer, whereas flying a small kite in winds that it takes to jump it can
put you down hard. Also kites that are intended for buggying will set you down with more forward velocity. Wear sturdy boots with ankle support. DO
NOT TETHER OR MAN LIFT.
KYTE SLINGER - 22-7-2005 at 06:19 PM
You don't want to jump with the kite as it pulls you up, try to create as much reisitance as possible and let the kite haul you up....... jumping
towards the pull only subtracts the pull, timing is everything 12o:clock the higher you'll go, deper in the wind window the longer you'll go
if you ever seen some of the jump monkeys in H20 kiting you'll see some of them dip there bodys into the water to create a butt load of resistance
then get plucked out from the kite
heres a photo of me I'll do heal clicks over the line sets after comming down 30' to 40" of air I have plenty of room
( hight) to stay on the top lines to get a drift for the soft landings 40' to 60' out... SPOT your landings early it takes awhile to know when and
were your going to land.
be for warn you'll might get hit with another boost while your in the air :barf: make sure that nothing is down wind
The sick thing right now is looping the kite through the jump( at max) for more lift ......you didn't hear that from me I'm still new at this
http://community.webshots.com/photo/379692616uKzUlX
pastafreak - 10-8-2005 at 08:27 PM
What kite are you using in that photo?
harry.allerston - 15-8-2005 at 11:45 AM
is a 3m big enough for jumping if i weigh 70kg?
if so in what wind strength?
Ginger_boarder - 21-10-2005 at 10:49 AM
no way mate i might try like a couple of feet of the ground jump but a 3m woudl need a reasonable amount of wind and they tend to drop u quicker than
they take u up. as i'm sure u may of heard a 5m+ kite in the right winds are much more floaty on the way down. i spose i learnt from experience
starting off with a 2.5m beamer 2 in huge winds 25mph+ soon got smart luckily didn't hurt myself so just make sure f u do do it do it safely.
gd luck,
angus
mr2mk1g - 26-10-2005 at 03:25 PM
I come to this sport from a skydiving background where I use a ram air wing comparable to about a 16 sq m kite. I use this to fly a mile or so from
opening height to a tippy-toe landing exactly where I want. Sadly I'm fully familiar with the kind of injuries people can inflict upon themselves
when trying to return themselves to terra ferma with the use of a flexifoil wing.
In skydiving, the vertical and horizontal component of your arrival can exceed that seen in kiting by a long way. Whilst the "arrival" usually much
softer than a kiter could ever hope for, mistakes do happen... and that's when my advice comes in handy to thousands of skydivers around the world
every weekend.
My one piece of advice to you would be to learn something called a "PLF" (Parachute Landing Fall). This is an essential tool in landing incidents
which mitigates the damage to your body. This is something that turns a break into a bruise or a wheelchair into a limp.
First the position. Basically keep both legs firmly pressed together (feet and knees). This ensures they brace one another meaning a greater force
is required to break your bones. Keep your arms in to your body - don't reach to break your fall, you'll only break your arm/wrist/shoulder.
Next important concept is the sequence of events on "arrival". Feet hit first. Your don't want your legs to be completely rigid, the idea is to
absorb energy not resist it. Then your calves/shins are to come into contact with the ground. That's right - you're trying to roll. Partly
you're turning vertical energy into horizontal energy. Then your thighs. Then your hips. Then your side. Then keep on going if necessary and
land your legs again etc.
The idea is you're spreading out the energy of the impact across as much of your body as possible. The further the energy is spread the less likely
you are to break a bone. It's basic physics.
In all seriousness: practice this over and over again until you're sure you'll do it without thinking. If you find yourself at 20ft and descending
rapidly one day I guarantee you, you will not suddenly stop and start thinking about what that guy on the internet said about how to land. Do it
till it's automatic.
Go do it the next time you get your kite out - in fact go do it now off your sofa. If you hurt yourself in your living room you're doing it wrong
and you're going to hurt yourself in your favorite flying field.
The only other advice is continue flying your kite. Once you're lofted don't just forget about the thing and worry about the landing - you may yet
be able to generate enough lift from the wing to keep the energy of the landing low enough to walk away from. Do whatever you know how to do to
generate lift. This is another reason to practice the PLF for a while - it means you can forget about it and concentrate on fling your wing to a
safe (or at least safe enough) landing.
This is the only advice I'm even remotely qualified to give. It's not about how to avoid a bad landing - it's about how to prevent that bad landing
causing a serious injury. It's invaluable advice for anyone, no matter how experienced.
edited to add: 30ft (9m) is the height from which landings start to be more likely to be fatal than merely seriously damaging to your health (that's
not to say of course the oposite can't happen).
doomwheels - 27-10-2005 at 01:13 AM
Great advice!
windrider1 - 30-10-2005 at 03:31 PM
Come on guys dont be such WIMPS, jumping is fun, you just have to be smart and know your limits, any kite sport has risks and jumping is no
different. just use some common sense basically dont use a big kite in strong winds. Use the right kite for the corrrect winds ,wear a helmet, jumping
is best done at the beach on soft sand i wont reccomend it anywhere else. if you are an experienced kiter get a blade III 4.9m kite or better yet
6.6m. the 4.9 can be taken out for jumping in winds from 10mph to max 20mph and thats MAX in 20mph you will be getting on the dangerous side when it
comes to jumps. the 6.6m will give you nice jumps from 10mph to 16mph, after that its just dangerous.