Power Kite Forum

info re: PL suspension rear axle 20mm bolts

revpaul - 27-4-2010 at 08:32 AM

i have it in mind that there is Peter Lynn suspension rear axle equipped for 20mm axle bolts. there is 12mm and 15mm
i can't track one down or find it's (20mm) existance.
i know my old PL Race's suspension axle has 12mm (or 15mm) axle bolts.
If it exists I am thinking of adding the 20mm axle bolt suspension axle and extended siderails my XR+.
I will then get rid of my big Super Truck w/Z-down tube and other gear (mainly all my Flysurfer kites) to off set cost of a new landsailer.
Paul

awindofchange - 27-4-2010 at 12:54 PM

Nope, doesn't exist. The suspension axle was only available in 12mm & 15mm, (IIRC)

revpaul - 27-4-2010 at 01:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by awindofchange
Nope, doesn't exist. The suspension axle was only available in 12mm & 15mm, (IIRC)

i seen thread (and left reply) at extremekites that had a bunch of PL buggy parts/add ons. A rear axle suspension unit was in the pictures. I just assumed that if this is new (like the images seem to be) why wouldn't they go with 20mm threads.
i suppose it's no big deal to swapp 20X32 bearings for 15X32 bearings?
I'm not a very large rider.
the extended siderails, are they still available? and are they sized for the larger down tube that an XR+ has?
thanks,
Paul

revpaul - 27-4-2010 at 05:40 PM

the folks who posted the thread/pics at extreme kites state that the axle's threads are 20mm as 20mm threads is the standard PL size (now).
Paul

awindofchange - 27-4-2010 at 06:02 PM

I would double check that as I have tried to get them before and was told they did not make a suspension axle in the 20mm size. I could have been mislead though.

20mm is the standard size for the comp XR+ buggies (folding+, Bigfoot XR+ included). The Standard (ST) buggy still uses the 12mm rear axle bolts. The 15mm axle bolt was used in the Monster buggy and the Comp 2000 buggy that was built from 2000 to around 2006 (IIRC). The Comp2000 was replaced with the XR+ model and is no longer made.

I have a suspension axle here in the 12mm axle size but have never been able to get any in the 20mm size.

I have also used the 20mm bearings (20x32) and the bearing size is so small that they burned up within an hour of riding. We ended up having to double them up to try and get them to last longer but still had no luck. If you can stay with the larger 20mm bearings they are much better and last a zillion times longer.

Hope I am wrong as the 20mm suspension axle would be pretty cool to have.

I will need to double check on the side rails but I believe they are still available for the XR+. Also, you can put the Big Foot rear axle on the Comp XR+ buggy to get a longer rear axle. It is a direct replacement. Extended down tubes and kinked down tubes are also available.

Hope that helps.

revpaul - 27-4-2010 at 06:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by awindofchange
I would double check that as I have tried to get them before and was told they did not make a suspension axle in the 20mm size. I could have been mislead though.

20mm is the standard size for the comp XR+ buggies (folding+, Bigfoot XR+ included). The Standard (ST) buggy still uses the 12mm rear axle bolts. The 15mm axle bolt was used in the Monster buggy and the Comp 2000 buggy that was built from 2000 to around 2006 (IIRC). The Comp2000 was replaced with the XR+ model and is no longer made.

I have a suspension axle here in the 12mm axle size but have never been able to get any in the 20mm size.

I have also used the 20mm bearings (20x32) and the bearing size is so small that they burned up within an hour of riding. We ended up having to double them up to try and get them to last longer but still had no luck. If you can stay with the larger 20mm bearings they are much better and last a zillion times longer.

Hope I am wrong as the 20mm suspension axle would be pretty cool to have.

I will need to double check on the side rails but I believe they are still available for the XR+. Also, you can put the Big Foot rear axle on the Comp XR+ buggy to get a longer rear axle. It is a direct replacement. Extended down tubes and kinked down tubes are also available.

Hope that helps.


now i'm confused. :puzzled:you say don't use 20X32 bearings. in what part o the buggy?
i though 20mm is ID (thread size of axle bolts) and 32 is OD. or simply called 20mm bearing as the outer diameter is always the same with standard plastic rims?
then you say stay with the 20mm bearing.

the extended side rails will mate up to the XR+'s larger down tube? I vaguely remember seeing a ( can't remember if Flexi or PL) Z-down tube. i am going to check out your website to see/find info on these items.
i thought there was a fella (closing out dealer in US) selling a 20mm suspension rear axle and extended side rails on ebay this past winter. it may have been just a wide axle 20mm though. i can't remember but i know i had the idea the parts would have fit my XR+. i wasn't interested in stretching the XR+ at the time because i had the Libre.
BTW does manta have a web site?
thanks again Kent.
Paul

ripsessionkites - 27-4-2010 at 07:44 PM

its probably not a PL NL thing. most of the buggy stuff comes out of the PL NZ crew.

awindofchange - 28-4-2010 at 11:54 AM

On the bearings, we tried to use some 20mm (ID) x 32mm (OD) x 9mm (wide) to fit into the normal ABS plastic wheels. This would allow you to mount the standard 12mm or 15mm wheels on a 20mm axle bolt. The problem is that there is only 12mm distance between the ID and the OD of the bearing. And about 6mm-7mm of this was used up by the inside and outside bearing race. This left ball bearings that were only about 4mm-5mm in diameter. With the side loads of the buggies, these bearings burned up very quickly and I don't recommend using them at all.

The 20mm wheels that come with the Comp XR+ buggies have a larger OD bearing in them than the original 12-15mm wheels. The OD of the 20mm bearing is 20mm (ID) x 47mm (OD) x 14mm (wide). This gives you 27mm between the ID and OD of the bearing instead of 12mm which gives you a larger ball with more lube and better ability for cooling. These bearings last for years without burning up where the others will only last for a month or so. (in our area of riding anyways, your experiences will vary as they are probably not as rough and brutal as our conditions and riding terrain).

If you are wanting to upgrade your buggy from 12mm or 15mm to 20mm then I highly suggest upgrading your wheels to hold the larger sized 20mm bearings as well. If you are ordering wheels from Peter Lynn, the 12mm and 15mm wheels are the same wheel, only difference is the bearing you put in - they will not hold the larger (OEM) 20mm bearing. The 20mm wheels are built for the larger OD bearing size and you can not mount the 12mm or 15mm bearings in those.

Hope that clears things up a little on the bearings and wheels.

On downtubes, Peter Lynn offers the Big Foot down tube that has a kink in it, not a "Z" shape but just a kink. This downtube will work for the Bigfoot XR+ as well as the Comp XR+. Extended side rails can be ordered for the Comp XR+ OR the Standard ST. Depending on the year of your buggy they may or may not be interchangeable.

And as far as I know, Manta does not have a website.

Hope that helps.

revpaul - 28-4-2010 at 12:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by awindofchange
On the bearings, we tried to use some 20mm (ID) x 32mm (OD) x 9mm (wide) to fit into the normal ABS plastic wheels. This would allow you to mount the standard 12mm or 15mm wheels on a 20mm axle bolt. The problem is that there is only 12mm distance between the ID and the OD of the bearing. And about 6mm-7mm of this was used up by the inside and outside bearing race. This left ball bearings that were only about 4mm-5mm in diameter. With the side loads of the buggies, these bearings burned up very quickly and I don't recommend using them at all.

The 20mm wheels that come with the Comp XR+ buggies have a larger OD bearing in them than the original 12-15mm wheels. The OD of the 20mm bearing is 20mm (ID) x 47mm (OD) x 14mm (wide). This gives you 27mm between the ID and OD of the bearing instead of 12mm which gives you a larger ball with more lube and better ability for cooling. These bearings last for years without burning up where the others will only last for a month or so. (in our area of riding anyways, your experiences will vary as they are probably not as rough and brutal as our conditions and riding terrain).

If you are wanting to upgrade your buggy from 12mm or 15mm to 20mm then I highly suggest upgrading your wheels to hold the larger sized 20mm bearings as well. If you are ordering wheels from Peter Lynn, the 12mm and 15mm wheels are the same wheel, only difference is the bearing you put in - they will not hold the larger (OEM) 20mm bearing. The 20mm wheels are built for the larger OD bearing size and you can not mount the 12mm or 15mm bearings in those.

Hope that clears things up a little on the bearings and wheels.

On downtubes, Peter Lynn offers the Big Foot down tube that has a kink in it, not a "Z" shape but just a kink. This downtube will work for the Bigfoot XR+ as well as the Comp XR+. Extended side rails can be ordered for the Comp XR+ OR the Standard ST. Depending on the year of your buggy they may or may not be interchangeable.

And as far as I know, Manta does not have a website.

Hope that helps.

OK Right On!!!
Thanks Kents (again). I figured if one of us had our wires crossed it would be me.
I understand about the bearings now. Makes sense. I have an XR+ and I will check the OD of the bearings in all three wheels. For some funny reason I am thinking the front rim is on a 12 or 15 mm bolt. I pulled the three tires off the XR+ and put them on the Libre super Truck for fit (in case I made it NABX)
Paul

nocando - 28-4-2010 at 01:14 PM

Hi guys re PL spares go to www.kitepower.com.au they have heaps

for pics go to www.evtremekites.com.au

under discussion forums is the PL thread

BeamerBob - 28-4-2010 at 01:32 PM

I think the XR+ uses 20mm bearings up front but uses a sleeve to fit a 15mm axle. Little experience here but I'm pretty sure they don't use a 20mm axle up front.

revpaul - 28-4-2010 at 02:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BeamerBob
I think the XR+ uses 20mm bearings up front but uses a sleeve to fit a 15mm axle. Little experience here but I'm pretty sure they don't use a 20mm axle up front.

that would make sense other wise the wheels are not interchangeable and that would be wierd.
i'll take a look after work.
thanks,
Paul
****edit*****
yep Kent is on top of it.
just had a peak at the XR+ buggy. front rim houses the 32mmOD bearing. weird.
weird also because the front tire from XR+ fit right on the LIbre as far as axle size. only would have needed about 3/8 inch of spacer on either side.

awindofchange - 28-4-2010 at 02:13 PM

Actually, the front axle has always been 12mm on the PL buggies - and I think this is also true for the Flexi's. This is the same on the Big Foots, Folding and standard buggies (including the Comp 2000 and the XR+ models). The only axle size that has changed through the years is the rear axle. The Comp XR+ has 12mm front axle and 20mm rear axles.

We actually make and sell a machined spacer kit that will allow you to mount a 20mm wheel on the front 12mm axle. The axle remains a 12mm, the bearings are just shimmed down from 20mm to 12mm. This is used to mount the 20mm aluminum wheels onto other buggies that use smaller axle bolts - or you can use it on the ABS wheels - which is nice because then you only need to carry one 20mm replacement wheel that will fit on all three positions instead of having to carry two different wheels.

revpaul - 28-4-2010 at 02:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nocando
Hi guys re PL spares go to www.kitepower.com.au they have heaps

for pics go to www.evtremekites.com.au

under discussion forums is the PL thread

thanks nocando,
youch, sticker price shock!!! it doesn't directly specify but i'm assuming the threads on that suspension axle are 20mm?

nocando - 28-4-2010 at 02:50 PM

Oops a bum steer cannot spell

www.extremekites.com.au

nocando - 28-4-2010 at 07:01 PM

We are a bit spoilt in Oz, we are able to get low cost shipping and nearly same time zone communications, as well as having Craig Hansen (Peter Lynn southern hemisphere partner) visit us regularly to show us his latest bits and pieces.
You just need to get your dealer to communicate with PL NZ, as well as the Vliegerop PL Distributor, most of the custom buggy bits come from NZ and are actually made there, not in China.

A quote from Extreme Kites