Power Kite Forum

Are ALL Bigfoot Tires the same? NO!!!

bison - 14-6-2010 at 11:37 AM

I've been riding, almost exclusively, bigfoot tires for the better part of 8 years or longer. Bigfoots were just big balloon tires to me, small differences, but pretty much the same.

NO LONGER!!!

I got a chance to ride a set of grooved, 4 ply tires this weekend in the right conditions to really test them to their limit.

Result: I AM IMPRESSED!!!

These tires added considerable stability along with the ability to handle and control more power. The beach we were on this weekend (see "Awesome Buggy Beach" thread) was perfect for pushing the limits. I tried the normal tires I would be riding for the conditions and kept getting dragged sideways in to the soft sand. I couldn't hold a line no matter what I did. Then I tried these new tires and the results were much better. I was able to hold the line no problem. Thinking maybe the wind had died a little I made several runs. On my last trip back the wind really came up! I just held on to see how far I could push it. Needless to say I was movin', fastest all day by far!!!

Not even sure what they are called, never looked. (Jon (KBSS) has them) My adrenaline was still up 20 minutes later. Yep it was fast but controllable even at that speed.

Nuf said.

Todd - 14-6-2010 at 12:27 PM

We're they anything like these?



What size we're they also please... Here is the set I mounted up and road at the Wildwood Buggy Bash. They we're everything you described, talk about holding a line!

WELDNGOD - 14-6-2010 at 01:21 PM

ditto, I'm running Kenda multiribs 18x8.50x8, and they help ya hold down more kite.

DSCF0574-1.jpg - 106kB

bison - 14-6-2010 at 01:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Todd
We're they anything like these?


They look very similar. The grooves are about twice as wide.

What is the link for the ones you show here?

WIllardTheGrey - 14-6-2010 at 01:32 PM

http://www.carlisletire.com/products/smooth_operators/straig...

Les schwab is thought to carry them but when I called the store in Reedsport they only had the wheelbarrow sizes.

WELDNGOD - 14-6-2010 at 02:00 PM

here is the link for Kenda multiribs
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200331233_200...

ripsessionkites - 14-6-2010 at 06:42 PM

We run eurotrax (normally with 7 to 9 grooves) tires on a cadkat front rim with Beachracers on AS rims here.

Thread also gives you grip in soft sand not mention less hydroplane in tidepools.

In Europe I saw pics of one one with 13.

If your out this weekend at the Wash Event jump into one of the few ApeXX there for a spin and see.

arkay - 14-6-2010 at 07:19 PM

Can I just borrow your wheels :D

csa_deadon - 14-6-2010 at 07:39 PM

Just throw a can of red bull at him! It will distract him long enough to get the tires arkay!

ripsessionkites - 14-6-2010 at 10:38 PM

You could ask a local tire shop to cut grooves in your bf light tires is another option than buying new tires.

Ps. I can down a can in 30seconds so you might want to get me the supersized can.

Krohn1999 - 14-6-2010 at 10:39 PM

Over here (Germany) the standard is Eurotrax or Duro`s with 13 grooves. I have seen people go as high as 21 grooves but they don`t hold up very long.
The most important thing is nice sharp edges on the grooves, as soon as they are rounded they start to loose thier grip.

IMO it is always better to buy slicks and cut the grooves yourself. Industrial grooves seem to not have a sharp edge from the beginning and are normally heavier than the slicks.
Kenda beach racers seem to be ok on grass or hardpack sand but when the sand is really soft they have a tendance to start snowplowing they are just to square. you need a nice round tire with very little pressure and then you can go though soft sand really good. On hardpack you won't notice the difference that much.

E

ripsessionkites - 15-6-2010 at 01:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Krohn1999
Over here (Germany) the standard is Eurotrax or Duro`s with 13 grooves. I have seen people go as high as 21 grooves but they don`t hold up very long.
The most important thing is nice sharp edges on the grooves, as soon as they are rounded they start to loose thier grip.

IMO it is always better to buy slicks and cut the grooves yourself. Industrial grooves seem to not have a sharp edge from the beginning and are normally heavier than the slicks.
Kenda beach racers seem to be ok on grass or hardpack sand but when the sand is really soft they have a tendance to start snowplowing they are just to square. you need a nice round tire with very little pressure and then you can go though soft sand really good. On hardpack you won't notice the difference that much.

E


maybe i miss counted ... i dunno Ruudje @ XXtreme cuts our grooves.

i agree with you on the slicks to cut.

speaking of tires ... what are you running at WC??? i need some inside tips. hehehe =)
see you soon. :yes:

Krohn1999 - 15-6-2010 at 03:46 AM

@ Rip

everyone has thier own prefrence on how many grooves they want. The standard is 11-13. since most shops including myself charge 2,50€ for each groove it can be a cost factor ( (13x2,50)x3=97,50€ ).

As far as the WC goes I won't be riding. You have to qualify for the Country that is written on your Passport. In my case that would be USA. Since I live over here I am not a member of the American Racing circut hence no World cup for me.
as far as De Panne goes, I have never rode there I always drive 70 km further to Les Hemmes:singing::wee::singing:

Krohn1999 - 15-6-2010 at 03:51 AM

o ya forgot somthing.

After my Fano trip this year I will be ordering my Appexx with Eurotrax and 13 hand cut Grooves!!

SSOOOO if anyone is looking for a 9 month old Dragster let me know!

Chris

bison - 15-6-2010 at 10:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Krohn1999IMO it is always better to buy slicks and cut the grooves yourself. Industrial grooves seem to not have a sharp edge from the beginning and are normally heavier than the slicks.


I hadn't thought about sharp edges, makes perfect sense. On average, how long before the grooves wear down? Can they be re-grooved to sharpen the edges?

What tires are you starting with? Eurotrax? Do they come NON-GROOVED?

The heavier tires increased stability. Definitely felt the increase in stability during gusts. The four ply doesn't compress as much. Also, the grooves reduce the drag between the tire and sand. Acceleration increased even with the increase in tire weight. Faster, more control, less drag, gotta have a set now!!!

Krohn1999 - 15-6-2010 at 11:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bison
Quote:
Originally posted by Krohn1999IMO it is always better to buy slicks and cut the grooves yourself. Industrial grooves seem to not have a sharp edge from the beginning and are normally heavier than the slicks.


I hadn't thought about sharp edges, makes perfect sense. On average, how long before the grooves wear down? Can they be re-grooved to sharpen the edges?

It depends where you ride grassy fields will take the edges off fast
Pavement really fast
Hardpack they hold quite awhile
Soft sand a really long time.

I use both Duro and Eurotrax, depending on the setup of the buggy. Duro for very low settings (hardpack or Fields) Eurotrax for soft or beaches that have alot of diffrent surfaces.
4 ply does have its advantages but they are very stiff and don't flex much. I usually ride with 0,3 bar (4.35 psi)
also here your buggy is only allowed to weigh 60kg for racing so the 4ply are just to heavy

bison - 16-6-2010 at 08:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Krohn1999I use both Duro and Eurotrax...


What do you use to cut the grooves? Do they make a specific tool that does this or is it some adaption to an existing tool?

jellis - 16-6-2010 at 10:03 AM

Yes there is a difference with the grooved tires and on our beach area we run from the soft dunes to the hard pack out into the wet beach all the time holding a great line with excellent control.
We first started using the Kadkat 21x12-8 high speed grooved tires on 8" aluminum rims. They have deep grooves (over 14 deep grooves, very deep and close together) made into the tire from the factory and have held up well to the beach runs we make. I liked them so much I ordered more, but to my surprise KadKat cannot get the pregroove tires at this time and they don't know when it will be available again. They do however have the smooth version and I have the tool to groove them.
The Duro 21x12-8 4 ply tire can also be grooved (we use 11 grooves)and I use them for the front tire at times on 4" rims. They bite well and have lasted with sharp edges for a while now. They are however rounded so much that even with a 4" rim they still are quite tall, narrow and rounded.
We are running the Kenda Beach Racers (21x12-8) and have found them to hold a line very well. They are 4ply with factory made grooves (wider grooves and not as deep as others). We use an 8" rim in the back and a 4" rim in the front.
Our newest testing is leading us back to the Kenda Beach racer. We are using the Libre bigfoot front suspension, using 12 bands, and 8" AL rims all around. For our conditions it should be the ticket.
With the Nanco 21x12-8 2 ply tires we have been using are cost related at around $38, the grooved tires run from $80 up to $130. We found a justification for the added expense if you are wanting the advantage.
I keep them in stock along with the new aluminum rims in 2.5", 4" and 8" rim widths.

Krohn1999 - 16-6-2010 at 10:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bison
Quote:
Originally posted by Krohn1999I use both Duro and Eurotrax...


What do you use to cut the grooves? Do they make a specific tool that does this or is it some adaption to an existing tool?


groove cutter from Rillfit with any of the avialable cutting knives. then you need a setup to mount up the tire and get it turning at the right speed. The knife needs to have the right temp. and if everything is correct you have wondeful grooves in your tires. Do it wrong (too hot, too cold,too fast, too slow, too deep, knife to dull) you buy a new tire or have really crappy looking grooves.

jellis - 16-6-2010 at 10:07 AM

krohn1999 you hit the on the head. Grooving tires is tricky for sure, and like you said one wrong move and your tire is crap.

ripsessionkites - 16-6-2010 at 01:03 PM

beach racers for rear use aren't that expensive ... $126.00 (on std rim) or $230 (as AS rim)

rando - 18-6-2010 at 03:19 PM

has anyone figured out where to get rims and bearings for a decent price?

WELDNGOD - 18-6-2010 at 03:21 PM

http://www.awindofchange.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&am...

this is where i got mine

rando - 18-6-2010 at 05:30 PM

Those rims are sweet but they are outta my price range :no:

markite - 18-6-2010 at 05:48 PM

Quote:
As far as the WC goes I won't be riding. You have to qualify for the Country that is written on your Passport. In my case that would be USA. Since I live over here I am not a member of the American Racing circut hence no World cup for me.


Krohn, why couldn't you go represented as a US rider? If there isn't official race circuits going on in some counties like US or Canada but there are enthusiastic pilots how else would they qualify?
It would be great if there was some process for isolated pilots to participate. Sorry I guess this should be a different thread.