Power Kite Forum

Flying the Apex 2 5m

John Holgate - 28-7-2010 at 05:32 AM

Excuse my sillyness, winter here has been gloomy with not much wind so I'm snatching the odd opportunity when it arises. This time with light and gusty winds I gave the 5m Apex 2 a run in the bug. I'm surprised at how little wind the 5m needs to generate power. I tend to fly it with very little trim because each time I pull the strap in it has a tendency to luff and fold across the middle. Although I haven't had it out in anything more than 15 knots...yet! There's also an idea for some cheap footstraps for the buggy in the first couple of minutes too.

Flying the Apex 2 5m

BeamerBob - 28-7-2010 at 08:36 AM

That's a kite I've had my eye on. Dakitez and Screwyfits love their 7.5m Apex IIs. The 5 would be nice for those days over 25 mph and on the lakebed.

DAKITEZ - 28-7-2010 at 12:06 PM

John,

another good video mate. You seem like you would be a fun person to ride with. I hope I get the opportunity at some point to fly with you :wee:
It looked like on the video you had the center lines on the knot furthest from the bar, but it was hard to tell. Have you ever moved those to the center knot or the knot closest to the bar? I usually ride in the center knot as it seems to fit my style and conditions the best. I do not know that this adjustment will help your kite with the characteristics you described. In fact I would think the adjustment I described would make it worse, but just curious if you had tried it.

John Holgate - 28-7-2010 at 02:41 PM

Quote:

ohn, another good video mate. You seem like you would be a fun person to ride with. I hope I get the opportunity at some point to fly with you :wee: It looked like on the video you had the center lines on the knot furthest from the bar, but it was hard to tell. Have you ever moved those to the center knot or the knot closest to the bar? I usually ride in the center knot as it seems to fit my style and conditions the best. I do not know that this adjustment will help your kite with the characteristics you described. In fact I would think the adjustment I described would make it worse, but just curious if you had tried it.


Thanks Dakitez, if you're ever down this way - let me know. Extreme kite.com have a get together at Sandy Point (fabulous beach) in Nov and March which, I think, represents the best kite buggying in Victoia. There are also similar events in NSW and QLD.

Yes, started off with he knots closest to the handles and the result was luff,fold,luff,fold etc etc! Moved them to the middle knots which was much better but didn 't allow me to pull in much trim. Put them on the knots closest to the kite and it now seems a fair bit better although it still has a tendency to fold over if I've got a bit of trim pulled in and conditions are a bit gusty. It's still pretty new - maybe 5 hours of flying, so I'll see what it does as I fly it more.

Cheers,

John

popeyethewelder - 29-7-2010 at 12:16 AM

I looks very similar to the Access, how does it compare?

DAKITEZ - 29-7-2010 at 12:28 AM

PTW I have not flown the new access but the apex compares very much to the older access that I have flown. I would say the access had a bit more de-power, but both kites flew very well and are extremely stable.

John Holgate - 29-7-2010 at 05:08 AM

Quote:

I looks very similar to the Access, how does it compare?


Hi Popeye. I think the 7.5m is much more user friendly than the 6m XC (only briefly flown the XT) Once you get the 7.5m Apex moving in light winds it has ample pull to get you going. The Apex turns quicker than the XC. Has about the same depower as the XC but the quality of the XC bar & fittings is a little better. I used to need close to 15 knots to do any good with the XC. The 5m Apex is not that far behind the 7.5m. It will fly and pull in much less wind than the 6m XC. Don't know about the top end of the kite yet. I'm not convinced about the depower range of the 5m Apex yet but I haven't really got to know the kite yet.

I was so impressed with the 7.5m Apex that I sold my 6m XC to fund a 5m Apex! Same old story, too many kites, not enough cash!

AD72 - 29-7-2010 at 11:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BeamerBob
That's a kite I've had my eye on. Dakitez and Screwyfits love their 7.5m Apex IIs. The 5 would be nice for those days over 25 mph and on the lakebed.

Hey me too!

John Holgate - 1-8-2010 at 11:47 PM

Finally got the Apex 2 5m out in 22 knots today and after about a mile thought nope, it's gonna kill me!! It was about 5 knots too much for me. George very kindly let me have a couple of runs on his 4m XC which was very gentle and placid by comparison and I felt I could have handled another 5 knots easily. So the Apex 5m is an interesting kite - does very well in light winds (better than a 6m XC) and turns quicker than a 4m XC but I wouldn't buy a 5m Apex for a high wind/storm kite. (which is a shame cos that's sort of what I did!!!) Sort of flies like I would expect a 5m Beamer to (I've got the 4m Beamer).

Still not convinced the bridles are exactly the right length on the Apex - I had it on the knots closest to the kite and then pulled in a good amount of trim and while it never luffed, I could see the horizontal crease across the center of the kite where it sometimes folds if I have too much trim. Makes me wonder if the 'B' bridle lines are a smidge too long. I'll get some beads and shorten/test that theory. But you can see by the vid with no trim pulled in, it flies beautifully and is easy to launch.

DAKITEZ - 2-8-2010 at 12:39 AM

I'm thinking there is something going on with your kite. I never had any issue of the Apex's folding. I even flew the 5m at nabx 2009 and the winds out there can get nasty. In fact that was the trip that I learned alot about those center knots. I was flying with the knot closest to the kite and I was having problems with the kite dropping back in the window when I would build up some speed. I flew with it all day and it wasn't till that night that it clicked in my head that I needed to move the knot to flatten the kite out more and get it further forward in the window. After I did that it flew like a dream.
The fact that the kites do not fold up is the fact that I love most about them. I can mess up and the kite forgives me. I have since gotten rid of my 5m because the only place I could use it was at nabx and it just seemed a waste to have it sitting around and not getting used.
Another reason I think there is a issue with your kite is the wind range you are getting out of it. at 22 knots I would say is about the time the kite would be coming out ... not being overpowered ( and everyone knows I don't fly crazy overpowered so this is a conservative number). Last time out I was running the 7.5m in 17 - 20 knots and its a dream at those winds. I let Beamerbob give it a run in those winds and he came back with a smile also :yes: The kite was set on the center knot and trim strap most all the way out in full power. The strap may have been pulled in slightly but not much.
Maybe Chris or Craig from HQ will chime in on this to help get this sorted out. I wish you best of luck with it John.

John Holgate - 2-8-2010 at 01:31 AM

Thanks Dakitez, you may be right, my 7.5m has never shown this tendency. I would have thought I would have been comfortable in 25 knots with the 5m. (mind you, I'm a very conservative buggier and have usually got the smallest kite up!!) I'll shoot an email off to Craig and see what he thinks.

Cheers

John Holgate - 22-8-2010 at 03:15 PM

It turns out the bridles were not quite right on this particular kite. I sent a video on the leading edge folding over to Jan at HQ in Germany and he thought the middle of the kite was flying too fast compared to the tips. (Every time the kite built up speed with the trim pulled, It's leading edge would fold forwards and over) So he suggested I shorten the 3 outermost 'A' bridles on each side. Bingo! fixed it. Had a few hours on it yesterday in gusty conditions ranging from 15-23 knots on the middle knot with nearly full trim pulled and it flew sweet all day. This kite's gonna get a lot of miles in the coming summer.....

chudalicious - 22-8-2010 at 06:26 PM

This makes me worry a bit. New to kiting and jumping the gun, i bought a 5m apex II at a great deal figuring it would be a good step up from my ozone flow 3m. But because i am so new, i find it disheartening to hear the kite may be manufactured wrong from the get go. Being new i wouldn't know enough to know something was wrong!!

Flew it yesterday for the second time and although the winds varied from 7 to 12 at times, it seemed ok. Tried using second knot in from the kite but found it wouldn't turn well at all so i moved it back to the knot closest to the kite as john did above.

Also worth noting i have not touched the trim strap so it was still on factory.

I realize these winds were basically crap (kite kept creeping into the PZ and could not maintain pull at the edge of the window) but i figure it is a hell of a lot safer!

gemini6kl - 22-8-2010 at 07:27 PM

I did also notice the apex 2 are very twitchy in gusty winds expect alot of luffing and folding. i bought a 7.5m and 10m, the 10 m seemed to be much more stable ,,, i noticed however after a few sessions the kite became more stable and tolerated the wind conditions better.

John Holgate - 22-8-2010 at 10:07 PM

Quote:

i find it disheartening to hear the kite may be manufactured wrong from the get go.


I wouldn't be worried unless it shows an obvious problem (which mine was). I have plenty of other HQ stuff and it's really good. I've also got a Ozone Turbo bar which was made incorrectly too (a simple fix and now it's great) so I'm sure from time to time every manufacturer will make a small error. My 7.5 & 5m Apex's will get the most use this season for sure. It will have very little pull at the edge of the window - that's normal when static flying.
Quote:

I did also notice the apex 2 are very twitchy in gusty winds expect alot of luffing and folding.


I gotta say that the conditions I was flying in yesterday were quite gusty and the 5m never missed a beat. The more trim you pull (and his includes moving to knot closest to the bar) the less responsive the turning will be and you'll have less power too. I started flying with my 7.5m on the knot closest to the bar and didn't like the way it turned. Moved to the center knot - problem fixed. Keep in mind that, generally speaking, depower kites don't turn anywhere near as fast as fixed bridles. I've found the Apex's to be FAR more forgiving than my fixed bridle kites. There are some wind conditions where nothing will fly well! Particularly if there's any obstacles around.