I love my Blade V 6.5 for jumping and skudding. I'm using regular handles but my arms get tired before I get my fill of fun. I'm interested in getting
a harness but it looks like I would not have the option of instant release.
Does flying fixed bridle with handles and a harness mean there is no panic release?
I understand I can pull hard on the handles and the strop line will fall out of the harness hook but in a sudden gust it looks like I will just be at
the mercy of the kite.
Is there any safety option available for this handles - harness setup?
I'm only interested in static flying / jumping at the moment. No money for a depower kite setup.Bladerunner - 15-8-2010 at 09:38 AM
Getting a waiste harness and then dropping out of the spreader bar whenever you are ready to go for it is SO worth it !
When you are jumping and scudding you are spending more than 1/2 your time just walking back upwind and taking breaks. You can hook in, set the kite
off to the side and walk upwind while resting up for the next go. You get back rested and can rest further while you remain hooked in.
You will spend more and more time hooked in. Doing scuds that way but I still unhook to jump. You will be able to hold down more power so your jumps
will get bigger and better.
DO IT :cool2:furbowski - 15-8-2010 at 09:42 AM
One thing you can do is fly the kite off the harness when you are jumping, then hook in for a break... This actually adds a lot of flying time as you
get much better rest in between goes.
There are a few ways to set up a panic release, a pin set-up next to one of the handles is the usual DIY solution. I couldn't find the thread last
time I looked, tho.
But those links should get you on the right track.
You'll find that it takes an extra degree of skill to get the same height on your jumps when hooked in, everything else being equal.
Good luck out there, keep it safe!acampbell - 15-8-2010 at 10:04 AM
Yes that is problem with harness and strop. Ask Jeff at Big Kids kites about 9 broken ribs. He is working on a solution though. I have crafted a
common top-hat style release behind one handle that can be reached with a thumb.
Others use a wichard 2675 quick release holding a harken snatch block pulley but that is a lot hardware to hit the face if it is going bybigkid - 15-8-2010 at 11:01 AM
The QR idea has been around for ever, and some good ideas have come about. The problem with all of them is you have to make the release happen by
doing something. I got something in the works that will self deploy.
Anything that you use has to be practiced with over and over till you think you got it all down and it becomes 2nd nature. But be assured you will get
caught with your mind somewhere else. There is no for sure system as of yet, so until it is perfected, this is an extreme sport.
And by the way Angus, my CT scan Friday showed 19 total breaks, (I can take in a big breath and hold it now)Gerryt - 15-8-2010 at 01:41 PM
Thanks for the feedback and the links. I see this instant release idea has been discussed a lot but it was taking me some time to find the info.
I'm going to get as close to a deadman type of release as I can find.
I like the DIY pin idea that is close to a handle. I might do that with a pull-cord or something that's attached with velcro to my wrist so I can pull
it almost without thinking. The velcro would just rip off as the handles are pulled away.
I'm wondering if a small Wichard shackle can be used close to the handle and stays attached to the handle. The pull cord on this could be attached to
my wrist.
Does this sound like it would work?furbowski - 15-8-2010 at 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Gerryt
I'm wondering if a small Wichard shackle can be used close to the handle and stays attached to the handle. The pull cord on this could be attached to
my wrist.
Does this sound like it would work?
HMMMM. I think it would work, not only that, it also would allow for use of a strop with kite killers, if desired.
So one lets go of the handles and brings their hands back towards the chest, then the wichard on one handle activiates, releasing the handle from on
end of the strop (this is the part I can't quite visualize, most wichard set-ups just let go of all the kit ), the strop runs out through the harness
hook/ pulley as both handles go onto the kite killers, done.
I can see a few things that could go wrong tho....
One the wichard could release accidentaly, but this is a problem with all wichard set-ups, they can be really sensitive to their triggers
Two the strop doesn't run out freely through the pulley / hook but gets jammed...
I've only built a couple simple QR systems tho, somebody would more experience would visualize it better.Bladerunner - 15-8-2010 at 04:05 PM
The pin and line is a new one on me and I kind of like it ! You 1st
I played with the cotter pin and sleeve idea and if gave me a minor amount of confidence while I never used it in need. In the mean time I gained a
LARGE amount of confidence in my abilaty to either fly out of a situation or kill the power without letting go fully.
Get that harness and start flying hooked in. Very shortly a LOT ( but not all ) of the worry you have going in will go away. I feel very safe scudding
hooked in and am sure people who jump better feel thw same about that ? You will find your limit and as you grow that limit will cahange.Gerryt - 15-8-2010 at 05:07 PM
I am pumped about getting a harness. I may order one tonight but I can't decide! I don't plan on doing anything in the water for awhile, but getting a
buggy or board a little later is a possibility.
I'm not afraid of playing around with a harness with no quick release system, I'd just be very careful not to use it if I think the gusts are more
than I can handle, but I DO want to get something even if it's only for the confidence factor.
Furbowski - You described exactly what I had in mind. I imagined the strop line getting caught too. I think there is a very real possibility of the
line at least slapping the crap out of me after it's released and whips through the hook. Maybe two Wichard shackles - one for each handle is the
answer?
Back to the harness - I live in south Texas, the heat is brutal, I'm thinking a lightweight seat harness that is not hot to wear would be good. $140
is my upper limit.
The Ozone Access XC looks good to me, it's light weight (not hot) and I have read at least one good review on it.
Bladerunner, you use a waist harness?
Any recommendations?Kamikuza - 15-8-2010 at 05:18 PM
If you're only going to use it for the land kites and only with fixed bridles, my advice would be get a climbing harness then spend the change out of
your $140 on a Wichard shackle and a Ronston block quick release ...furbowski - 15-8-2010 at 05:57 PM
good answer from kami above....
as you read the following bear in mind that he's broken a couple of his bones while kiting and I haven't (does the tailbone count? nah...) but I have
broken a good few small bones doing other stuff so I'm not totally carefree about injury.
I went the climbing harness route w/o a quick release as such.... I had a bentgate carabiner (with the gate tied back so it was like a hook) tied not
to my harness loop but directly beside it, which gave me a maximum length of strop. I could hook / unhook when I wanted to, and since I chose a biner
from a quickdraw set it had a blunt smooth nose on the gate catch (rather than the more normal hook) which let the strop rope drop in and out easily
when I needed it to. I had the biner tied to my belt with a slip knot. I've climbed rock off and on as well as sailed quite a bit as well, and taught
both, so I'm good with my knots -- just sayin' tying a secure yet usable slipknot in 7mm static perlon (selected and prepared carefully to have an
extra slick sheath) might not be for most folks, but that was my "quick release." It worked under load while flying, but I never used it in anger.
The key to do this is NOT to do it so you can fly winds you couldn't fly otherwise. If you can't fly that kind of wind without being hooked in, i.e.
you want to launch hooked in because you don't think you can handle it otherwise, well of course that would be very dangerous.
So you *might* try a rig like that in winds you can fly, but tire you out, so you can extend your flying time. Another reason would be to get used to
a harness, as flying on a strop with a harness demands a different flying style, also learning to let the harness take all the power while just using
your hands / wrists for control is another learning curve right there.
When I have one of my goes on the water, I'll hook into a proper kitesurfer's seat harness and use one of my arcs. But I haven't used a strop on
fixed bridles in more than a year, because I pretty much just jump static on my tiny beaches. And if I'm flying big winds at the edge of my skill, I
really don't want to be hooked in. Otherwise, I don't need to be, my legs and breath get pumped and need a break before my arms do. Jumping static on
handles is an awesome fitness program, I don't mind the muscle pain if it keeps me in shape.
If I'd spent any amount of time with a buggy, I'd have long since sorted out a proper harness and QR. But I'd definitely set that with a roller, as
the rig above chewed up my strop lines like crazy, 2-3 hours hooked in and they'd be ready to change out.
So I'm not saying jury-rig, but with the right winds and ground, a little DIY job can be a way to try something out and see how you get on with it.Kamikuza - 15-8-2010 at 06:05 PM
Yeah, I was thinking captive (strop through the block) but a quick release that dumps the block to kite killers ... actually now I think about it,
that's not a good idea at all I think the strop with a pin release is the best
idea - pretty sure there's a great link in a previous thread ...
I think I have as close to a deadman setup as I can get. I took the idea of a rock climbing belay device. I hold the brake end of the webbing I use
for a strop with my index finger on the handles. When I turn loose, the handles pull loose and leaves the strop line hooked to the harness or whatever
else you might have it hooked to. I will try and post a picture of the set up when I find the camera.furbowski - 15-8-2010 at 07:22 PM
@sknnyftn... be nice to see that photo... it sounds like you have the strop running through something at the handle before it goes to your index
finger?bigkid - 15-8-2010 at 08:34 PM
sknnyftn , let me know how it works. lots of unforseens that need to be addressed, but your on the right track.Gerryt - 15-8-2010 at 08:37 PM
After rereading my previous message I see I didn't write what I really meant. I wouldn't think of the quick release as something that allows me to fly
in winds beyond my limit. I meant if I used a harness without a QR I would be extra careful to fly only when there were no gusts that I couldn't
handle.
sknnyftn - I'd love to see a pic of that setup.
I also thought about wrapping one end of the strop line once or twice under my hand. I have successfully used this technique in another way - I've
used weight lifter's straps to relieve some of the stress from my hands. These loop over the top of my hand and the strap runs down my palm past my
fingers. I wrap the strap just once around a handle and my hand holds it in place. This transfers a lot of the stress across my wrists and the back of
my hands. This works a lot like the padded straps some people use for two line kites. The straps flip off the handles the moment I let go.
As I type I think it may be possible to attach both ends of the strop line to rubberized straps that wrap once on the handles. My hands lightly
holding the handles would be enough to keep the straps in place. Once I let go of the handles the straps slip off and the kite killers take over.
Whatever QR device I settle on I want to use a hook on the harness or an open pulley.
The Ozone Access XC harness is like a climbing harness with extra padding - a big fat padded belt and padded straps for under my legs.Kamikuza - 15-8-2010 at 09:23 PM
The thing I seem to remember was a strop with a pin release that had a connection to the wrist, so if the guy moved his hands off and away from the
handles, it pulled the pin and the kite went ...
Have you thought about a Peter Lynn harness, Gerry? The new ones might be more your ticket - they can come with pulley spreader bar too ...furbowski - 15-8-2010 at 09:29 PM
go with a pivoting pulley on a spreader with a quick-release on the side? Don't know if you could get it in a slimmer harness like a buggy or
climber's harness, I've only seen them on kite-surfer rigs. There's a lot less drag on the strop line so the feel is way better, esp. with a strop
inside a flexible plastic or rubber tube which you'd never use on a hook.
I've flown an old blade I 3.3 which had that rig on it, the guy who bought it didn't want to take it off, tho... dang.
great kite, btw, easily the gruntiest 3m I've flown (others: crossfire 3.2, hornet 3, legend 3)Gerryt - 16-8-2010 at 06:16 AM
furbowski - Thanks for the suggestion. The pulley / spreader looks great and there's more to the design than meets the eye. I want one. I'm now
looking for the best pulley / spreader & harness setup.
The Peter Lynn pulley / spreader bars look awesome although a bit pricey. On the PL base harness it looks like the straps under the thighs without
padding could be really uncomfortable and the PL Divine harness being specifically designed for buggies looks like a big diaper when standing and it
would probably be hot.
If I don't find a harness that fits better when standing and also accommodates the Bullet spreader I'll go with the PL Devine with the Bullet pulley
spreader.
The search for the perfect harness for me continues -
Thanks again everyone for all the great input.bigkid - 16-8-2010 at 06:41 AM
You might want to look at the EVO harness by Radsails, I have one that has been my favorite for 2 years now. Lite and bendable in the bug, not like a
stiff diaper.dylanj423 - 16-8-2010 at 06:58 AM
... this thread reminds me of my quest for the QR stropline... i made one, and thought it was going to work really well... i still have the picture
set, and im sure i can rework the idea and remember how i did it...
... but its just not safe... let me tell you what happened...
... i cant remember exactly where it was, but as i was flying hooked in, with my newly crafted safety line, i went for either a loop, or a sharp turn
of some sort... the bulk of the safety got caught in the spreader bar and jammed up... the line locked itself there mid-turn... the winds were not
fierce, but strong enough to yard me as the kite looped uncontrollably... i scrambeled to get myself out of the setup and realized that i just wasnt
going to be able to do it like that...
... under the force of the kite, the bulkiness of the safety mechanism wedged itself into the spreader bar locking the kite into a looping pattern
that could have been much worse than it was...
what i was trying to make as a safety had actually become a hazard, so i gave up on the project...
... there is, however, a quick release spreader bar somewhere on the market that sounded like a good idea, but i think it might have had some issues
of accidental trigger of the release...
... even so... another experience... this may i was haulin down the beach and went to stop when i had a magnificent OBE... floating above the ground
waiting for impact in that moment before i got smashed into the ground... there was no way that i was going to pull a safety... just not enough time
or wherewithal to do so...
... besides, pulling the safety in mid-flight is prob a really bad idea....
... i hit the ground HARD and pushed my way out of the harness ( i always fly with kitekillers) and let the kite bail.... i couldnt move it hurt so
bad... the point is... i had ingrained in myself to get out of the harness as quickly as possible, it was second nature... by the time i needed the
safety release, it was already too late, i was hovering over my buggy and about to hit the beach... a literal split-second
... somebody else said it best ... dont use a quick release like this as a substitute for smart flying and developing good kite instincts... this
sport is dangerous, and we have all accepted this... respect the wind and fly within your means... develop good habits and learn how to take a fall..
it will happen... just try to keep the severity of your injuries to a minimum
... this has got to be the longest post that i have ever written ....bigkid - 16-8-2010 at 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by dylanj423
... this sport is dangerous... this has got to be the longest post that i have ever written ....
You said it best,... this sport is dangerous...,and it wasn't to long
The best advice comes from experience, and a few of us are experts.dylanj423 - 16-8-2010 at 02:39 PM
Quote:
...and a few of us are experts.
... the best definition of expert that i have ever heard is : somebody who has been doing something long enough to have made all the mistakes you can
make ...
im certainly not claiming to be an expert, though ... but i have made a fair # of mistakes... thank God :saint: that none of them have been too
seriousGerryt - 17-8-2010 at 06:06 AM
I've ordered the Ozone Access XC harness and a Peter Lynn Bullet pulley spreader. I can probably make the pulley spreader work with the harness. If it
doesn't fit right then one of these will be going up for sale.
Thanks again for all the info on QR systems. I now have a head full of ideas and just have to choose one.lives2fly - 18-8-2010 at 03:50 AM
You bought the stuff before i got a chance to comment but i was gonna say get the XC anyway so.... The extra padding and back support over a climbing
harness is well worth having.
I was going to suggest you try flying with a bar. I fly a 6.6m blade III on a 70cm Flexifoil traction extreme bar and its the ONLY way i would fly it!
It has a pull-away quick release and integral leash which is similar to the Naish QR system - the best one out there imoGerryt - 21-8-2010 at 07:05 PM
I don't know if this thread is till active. The red dot on the left indicates it's a closed topic.
I just wanted to post a final comment.
I modified the Ozone Access harness. I carefully removed the stitching on the ends of the waist straps so I could undo the folded-over ends and slip
them out of the buckles and remove the hook spreader bar that came with the harness.
I put everything back together using the Peter Lynn Bullet pulley spreader bar. I also fashioned a strop line using 1/4" braided Amsteel and inserted
this inside a clear rubber tube. I finished the ends off nicely with a spliced knot connected to the handles with a larkshead and everything worked
great.
I flew the 6.5 Blade in 5-12mph winds today using the harness and everything went great. It did feel like power steering, it worked so well I was
almost giggly. It really extended the time I could fly before getting tired and I wasn't that afraid of not having a quick release. I'll still setup
some kind of QR but for now I feel ok as it is.
You guys have been a great influence in shaping how my kite adventure is progressing.
Thanks for all the information and thanks to Angus at Coastal Wind Sports for getting me the pulley spreader bar so fast.furbowski - 21-8-2010 at 08:29 PM
don't wait too long to figure out a QR... The wind will remind you someday if you forget!rocfighter - 24-8-2010 at 03:45 PM
What I do with my strop is just use a loose loop over the top of each handle. And as I most all the time have my thumbs on top of the handles they
hold the loops in place. Then I can just let go and the strop pops off and it's free to tangle into a hooj mess. Which is better than being dragged on
my face while I fight to pull the reliese on my clip.ejmichel - 25-8-2010 at 10:39 AM
Rocfighter: I am going to try this with my Reactors and dont see any downside. I like the idea of keeping it simple... I have been hesitant to fly
with a strop, but I like the simplicity of your idea. If I do get in trouble I can let go and let the kite go to the kite killers. Maybe I am
missing something but this seems like a very simple solution...Gerryt - 25-8-2010 at 06:27 PM
That loose loop on top of the handles sounds good but it might work against kite killers. I use HQ Ultra handles. This may not be my long term
solution but for now it works ok. I don't tie the strop to the right handle. I just wrap it around the handle a couple of times and my index finger
holds it. There is no knot on the right side of the strop and most of it is inside a tube so it should cleanly fall away when I let go.
I think the strop with a pin release is the best
idea - pretty sure there's a great link in a previous thread ...