Power Kite Forum

Adjusting the kite

Midgaar - 25-8-2010 at 07:05 PM

So I have a few outings under my belt and I'm starting to feel pretty confident in my abilities, but today was a little frustrating. I want to blame the weather conditions but I wanted some advice and opinions here first. I'm flying a 3m Beamer remember. Last flight was in consistent 6-8mph winds and required me to keep the kite moving through the power zone, back and forth, just to keep it in the air. Very little pull, it was actually a lot of fun for the whole family.

Today was a completely different story. wind was very inconsistent gusting at 10-15mph then dropping to 1-4 mph. The direction would also change slightly. My main problem was the kite would come up to Zenith and then beyond, it would sit a few feet behind me and seemed to fly just fine there until the wind stopped blowing, then it would just fold up and fall. I had the brake lines set to the third knot, then moved it to the forth knot. That seemed even worse, the kite would get 45-55 degrees off the ground and the ends would crumple in, I put the brakes back to the 3rd line and just applied them when I got to Zenith. Any suggestions on this?

So now I can get the kite to sit pretty well at Zenith, or anywhere directly in front of me with a little effort. I can't get the kite stay put if it's off to the side of the window, it just wants to move in the direction the leading edge is facing. What's the trick here? I see videos of guys on buggies parking the kite off to their side and cruise control. Do I just need more wind?

Reverse launch... I pull back on the brakes and give the handles a nice tug. The kite lifts into the air 7-10 feet then right back to the ground, how do I get the kite to turn 180 and go up?

Any other tips or tricks would be much appreciated.

I did have a BLAST sitting on the ground in my flight pants taking passes through the powerzone and being dragged 10+ feet. I wish I could have taken a picture of the look on the jogger's faces!!

Bladerunner - 25-8-2010 at 08:16 PM

Sounds like you have figured out how to avoid overflying properly.

You should be able to hold the kite any place along the edge of the window from Zenith to the ground on your left + right.

Practice loops, downloops and flying blind.

Try looping the kite for even bigger butt scuds.

Wear a helmet ! :Ange09:

Midgaar - 25-8-2010 at 08:29 PM

Loops = pull back hard on one hadle and watch as the kite cords you just spent 20 min getting untangled, get re tangled...

Downloops = ???

Fling Blind = Not looking at the kite, just feeling what it's doing? I can do this when it's in Zenith, I sometimes have to fight with it to stay in lull spells. Any Challenges?


Do loops generate more power in the zone? I know when I de-loop I'll often end up in the powerzone and things get hairy if I'm still on my feet.

WIllardTheGrey - 25-8-2010 at 08:32 PM

"Today was a completely different story. wind was very inconsistent gusting at 10-15mph then dropping to 1-4 mph. The direction would also change slightly. My main problem was the kite would come up to Zenith and then beyond, it would sit a few feet behind me and seemed to fly just fine there until the wind stopped blowing, then it would just fold up and fall. I had the brake lines set to the third knot, then moved it to the forth knot. That seemed even worse, the kite would get 45-55 degrees off the ground and the ends would crumple in, I put the brakes back to the 3rd line and just applied them when I got to Zenith. Any suggestions on this?"

--Sounds like you did every thing right. Those conditions are a royal pain.

"So now I can get the kite to sit pretty well at Zenith, or anywhere directly in front of me with a little effort. I can't get the kite stay put if it's off to the side of the window, it just wants to move in the direction the leading edge is facing. What's the trick here? I see videos of guys on buggies parking the kite off to their side and cruise control. Do I just need more wind?"

--Sort of, you need apparent wind.
Quote:

from Coastal Wind Sports <click the link, lots of great stuff there.
The Importance of Apparent Wind
Now that you are getting ready to take off on long runs and build up speed, let's stop and discuss some of the dynamics of sailing the buggy and discuss what happens when you put yourself, the kite and the buggy into motion.

When you fly statically (on your feet), the wind window is always downwind of you with the wind blowing at your back. While you can bring your kite to the edge of the window, you can never quite get it all the way to a point at 90 degrees to the direction of the wind, or immediately off your shoulder. This is due to the aerodynamic drag on the kite. A more efficient race kite may get closer to dead into the wind, but generally the kite will get within 15 degrees before it stops advancing. So we have a window that is an arc about 150 degrees wide (180 degrees, minus 15 degrees on each side) with a radius the length of our kite lines and centered dead down wind of where we are standing.

When standing still, the window does not move unless the wind shifts direction. All that changes however, when you set things into motion, and the effect is called "apparent wind". To understand apparent wind, think of yourself standing outside in a dead calm with no wind. Now imagine hopping on a bicycle and moving at 10 mph. The breeze you feel on your face is coming at you at a speed of 10 mph and that is the apparent wind. If you stand still with your bike and there is a 10 mph breeze blowing outside, the local wind and the apparent wind are both 10 mph because you are motionless. Ride your bike directly into the wind at 10 mph and the local wind is still 10 mph, but your feel the apparent wind on your face blowing at 20 mph since you have added your motion to the picture.

The effect of moving across the wind, say at 90 degrees to the breeze starting with the wind right off your shoulder adds another dimension and makes things more complicated, but it is easy enough to figure out with a simple diagram. Take a look at figure 6. Start by drawing a line "A" in the direction of the wind and use a unit of measure such as an inch or centimeter for each 1 mph of wind speed. To keep things simple we used 10 mph. Now draw line "B" from the same starting point to show your direction and speed of travel at 90 degrees to the wind, also at 10 mph. These lines are known as vectors, since they indicate direction and force, or in this case, speed. If you connect the free ends of "A" and "B" with a line to form a triangle, you get a vector "C" showing the direction and speed of the apparent wind you feel on your face. It shows the wind coming off your right side at an angle of 45 degrees and if you measure or calculate the length of the line, you get just over 14 mph.


"Reverse launch... I pull back on the brakes and give the handles a nice tug. The kite lifts into the air 7-10 feet then right back to the ground, how do I get the kite to turn 180 and go up?"

--As you pull the breaks pull one a little more than the other. pull the left break to rotate clockwise and visaversa.

"Any other tips or tricks would be much appreciated."

Keep up the ultra light wind practice it helps alot with kite control.
If you on a lower traction surface like sand or wet grass try standing up and being dragged. This is called "Scuding" and will help with absorbing excess power and its fun.
Practice flying blind or as the corylama says "Kite chi". When your ready to become mobile be it buggy, board or anything else flying with out looking at the kite is the best habit you can pickup.

WIllardTheGrey - 25-8-2010 at 08:34 PM

bah ya beat me to it BR, teach me to be such a slow typer.

WIllardTheGrey - 25-8-2010 at 08:39 PM

Up loop
v< ___
v.........\
..>_>_/



Down loop
...>_>_
^.........\
^<___ /


Yes looping speeds up the kite there by increasing power + usually puts you in the power zone.

Midgaar - 26-8-2010 at 06:10 AM

So down loop is just pulling on the blue (right) handle, and up loop pulling on the red (left handle)?

Maven454 - 26-8-2010 at 06:18 AM

Depends on the direction that you're traveling in. If you're cruising along and make the kite turn up to loop, then it's an up loop. If you make the kite turn down towards the ground at the beginning of the loop, then it's a down loop.

So if you're traveling with the wind on your left side, then pulling the left handle will be a down loop and the right handle will be an up loop. But if you're on a starboard tack (wind off the right side) then you'd pull the right handle for a down loop.

rdavis - 26-8-2010 at 06:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Midgaar
So down loop is just pulling on the blue (right) handle, and up loop pulling on the red (left handle)?


Basically yes....if you're flying to the right side of the window. A down loop is simply diving the kite downward to start the loop and a regular loop you're going up towards zenith for the loop.

Bladerunner - 26-8-2010 at 06:41 AM

The downloop is a handy move.

If wind is low you can do a downloop then get a looong power stroke accross the whole window.

Your instincts say, turn the kite up when you are losing it at the edge. Perfecting the downloop is often a better way out of trouble at the edge.

If you plan on jumping on a ride the most important skill to work on is flying blind ! Flying by feel.

Bladerunner - 26-8-2010 at 06:41 AM

The downloop is a handy move.

If wind is low you can do a downloop then get a looong power stroke accross the whole window.

Your instincts say, turn the kite up when you are losing it at the edge. Perfecting the downloop is often a better way out of trouble at the edge.

If you plan on jumping on a ride the most important skill to work on is flying blind ! Flying by feel.

nocando - 2-10-2010 at 05:39 AM

Have also found a downloop is good to pull when the wind is a little light and kite overflies.

WELDNGOD - 2-10-2010 at 05:49 AM

When flying in low windsyou need to "drive it hard". Don't let it sit still. Now you are discovering why wh have so many different kites. You adjust the kite to the wind. And you were flying in "crap" winds,so that reaction from the kite is perfectly normal. You will get better, just takes time :ninja:

acampbell - 2-10-2010 at 05:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Midgaar

Reverse launch... I pull back on the brakes and give the handles a nice tug. The kite lifts into the air 7-10 feet then right back to the ground, how do I get the kite to turn 180 and go up?


I just tell folks when they back the kite up by more than a wingspan to simply relax the brake on one side. It will fly out. Also not to worry if the kines are twisted. I can never remember which direction to try to fly out to untwist anyway, so then you have a teaching moment to try a loop.

Or just a dance on the feet under the kite to untwist. Kiteloops are harder for guys... it takes commitment.

JohnCostillo - 10-5-2011 at 12:05 AM

Thanks for all the information folks. This the exact thing I really want to know.. I have this trouble for quite some time already... Good thing I come across to this board. Cheers!

Acro flirturtle - 8-9-2011 at 11:58 PM

In the first comments it was mentioned that to get the kite in the zenith requires some shortening and lenthening of the brakes.

My question is ( sorry still a beginner) is that channging the brake lines does not always solve this problem, and it would require changing AOA. how to know when you can alter the AOA on your kite? and when would yo do so instead of changing the rear lines?

This is the kite i fly. http://www.tribord.com/EN/pw-4-5-32563633/

Kind regards

Rhys

Bladerunner - 9-9-2011 at 06:52 AM

This kite is designed to fly as a 2 line. Try flying it that way. If it still won't sit at zenith in 8+mph wind then you should send it back.

Adjusting the actual bridle is best left to those who know what they are up to.

Midgaar - 9-9-2011 at 01:09 PM

Wow, a trip down memory lane. It's hard to believe I was so naive. It's funny now because I can get that little Beamer to sit almost anywhere in the window and can even make it "dance". To anyone else just starting out the best piece of advice, just get out there and fly. It all comes with experience.

Acro flirturtle - 10-9-2011 at 08:40 AM

Today i took it back out in very very little wind , had a bit of a head ake getting it to fly but i also made some new rear line adjusters out of old paragliding line with knots abot 5cm apart and about § diferent positions.
It was great fun changing the knot attachment and experimenting with the kite. I ended up finding a sweet knot setting for that wind were the kite was super responsive and also maintained a perfect balence of speed and power through the turn.
The kite did tend to fly back but i am blamming this on the lack of wind and very curios to see how she behaves tomorow in BFT3-4 on the dunes of Holand.
I had a look and on this cheap kite they do not give the possibilitie to change the AOA.
Cant wait to get a new set of kites from a proper brand. Its hopefully going to speed up the learning process.
Thanks again for all the advise it sure does come in handy and yes indeed best way is to fly the #@%$#!ers as much as possible in all kind of conditions.
Sure did have a hard time holding on to the dam thing in BFT5 the uther day.
If anyboady has time and patience to prepare me like a training plan that has all basic moves in learning order from first getting on the board to jumping it would be very apprecated. Just to go through ticking them as i progress.

The plan was not to get to involved but the uther day i got lucky and had a great run dowwind picked up much more speed than i initially wanted and managed to stay on the board ;),loved it so much and now i have a feeling that after having my set of twisters and learning the basics the Depower will be arriving soon after ;)
Great sport. great work out aswell. ( advise needed on first harness)

Bladerunner - 10-9-2011 at 09:46 AM

Lots of folks swear by the tutorial Angus put together at www.coastalwindsports.com

Scudley - 12-10-2011 at 01:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Midgaar

So now I can get the kite to sit pretty well at Zenith, or anywhere directly in front of me with a little effort. I can't get the kite stay put if it's off to the side of the window, it just wants to move in the direction the leading edge is facing. What's the trick here? I see videos of guys on buggies parking the kite off to their side and cruise control. Do I just need more wind?

Reverse launch... I pull back on the brakes and give the handles a nice tug. The kite lifts into the air 7-10 feet then right back to the ground, how do I get the kite to turn 180 and go up?

Any other tips or tricks would be much appreciated.


Not more wind, you need to be moving across the wind in a buggy, on a board (or even walking in low wind) to park the kite like you saw in the video.

Release one brake and the kite will rotate about the brake still applied.

Practice flying as much as you can. The better you can control your kite, the easier it will be when it comes time for you to board or buggy. It is a lot easier to develop your kite skills standing. Walk while flying your kite. See if you can get it to pull you in the right direction. Work on keeping your kite in the air while walking down wind.
S