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Helmet/Bar

NJLandboarder - 8-9-2010 at 02:30 PM

Yesterday i went down the shore for the day with my dad to go land-boarding on the sailing beach where all the kite surfers ride.
When i got there the wind was 23 mph gusting up to 28 it was F***ing scary. I had just gotten up the kite and put it in my harness when the wind gusted and i flew off my feet n smacked my head on hard sand, it hurt. Then i put my helmet on later in the day I started getting the hang of riding the winds. After adjusting my brake lines a couple times and I went down the beach, I went pretty far then ran over some beach patrol ruts. I flew off my board and flipped and hit my head and i learned my helmet wasn't doing anything for me. My dad didnt think so either he kept telling me about how i have no way to dump the wind he said i should get a bar system like the kite surfers, but my beamer nor my new ace is a depower kite. should i buy a four line bar? Will that Help me?
That was off topic but my point is today i went out and invested 96$ in a new helmet

Maven454 - 8-9-2010 at 02:38 PM

Are you using kite killers with your Beamer? Then you have a way to dump the power, simply let go. It's faster and easier than any safety on a bar. If you're not using kite killers, you should be.

NJLandboarder - 8-9-2010 at 02:47 PM

well i wanted to use my killers yesterday but i left them in the car and then i cant keep riding i need a way to keep the kite up but lessen the pull also is there a way i can go up wind with a foil?

indigo_wolf - 8-9-2010 at 02:49 PM

Kite Killers

These:

should NOT be mistaken for:

While the latter will work, it gets expensive and staying clear of the molten nylon falling out of the sky can be tricky. :screwy:

Note: I blame this post on recovering from sleep deprivation and general sense of work-related ennui.

ATB,
Sam

Maven454 - 8-9-2010 at 02:53 PM

The only thing that would even vaguely achieve what you're after (other than getting a depower kite) would be to try either the Ozone Turbo Bar or the PKD Twister Bar (I don't think the Twister Bar is currently in production).

You can go up wind with a kite (any power kite), though not directly up wind. Information can be found here --> Coastal Wind Sports.

NJLandboarder - 8-9-2010 at 02:55 PM

how did that post help anyone?? and burning nylon is very bad for the enviornment!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mother nature gives us wind no need to hurt her because the wind could go away

Maven454 - 8-9-2010 at 02:57 PM

Wolf tends to be running on sleep deprivation, he's generally helpful, but you have to forgive him his occasional lapses into the bizarre.

NJLandboarder - 8-9-2010 at 03:00 PM

thank you maven ill look at those bars

NJLandboarder - 8-9-2010 at 03:05 PM

how much is the twister? because the ozone bar is expensive

thanson2001ok - 8-9-2010 at 03:08 PM

Always a source of FUN lapses, though. I might just try not sleeping for a while. :lol:

Flying with KKs as a storm front moved in... did that once and successfully depowered.:wow: Then decided to put them on my other fixed bridle kites.

Maven454 - 8-9-2010 at 03:10 PM

As I said, I don't think the PKD Twister bar is in production at the moment, so I have no idea if you can find one or how much it would go for. Both Jovver and Kamikuza have made their own copies of the bar. Let me dig up that thread for you. Here

NJLandboarder - 8-9-2010 at 03:13 PM

interesting ill check that out

NJLandboarder - 8-9-2010 at 03:27 PM

does anyone knwo if the bar hq makes for the beamer or the pl 4 line bar would work the same because 200$ is to much for me

Maven454 - 8-9-2010 at 03:28 PM

The other bars do not work the same at all.

indigo_wolf - 8-9-2010 at 03:31 PM

Compared to some other manufacturers, PKD doesn't have a lot of dealers in the US. Jeff at www.BigKidKites.com carries a fair amount of their stock, but the Twister bar might need to be special ordered. I am sure a quit not to him would get a line on the pricing.

Manual on the Twister Bar can be found here.

The thread on the Home Brew Turbo Bar might be of use if price becomes a barrier.

Quote:

Originally posted by NJLandboarder
how did that post help anyone?? and burning nylon is very bad for the enviornment!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mother nature gives us wind no need to hurt her because the wind could go away

Tongue in cheek.... ease up. Help eventually arrives, humour keeps you alive until it does.

ATB,
Sam

NJLandboarder - 8-9-2010 at 03:39 PM

what bars can i turn into a twister bar to save money?

kiteline - 8-9-2010 at 03:57 PM

If money is an issue, you could save more than half going with the HQ Safety Bar. Your Beamer can easily be converted back and forth between the bar and the handles. While the Safety Bar doesn't have depower abilities, it is a lot cheaper. Also, it uses the kite's rear lines as a safety. When you let go of the bar, the center lines go tight and the kite comes to the ground. You don't have to worry about losing the kite because the strap connects to your wrist.

As for kite killers, you should be using them. If you lose your kite, it could injure someone or damage property. We don't need any more areas closed due to carelessness.

-Mike

NJLandboarder - 8-9-2010 at 03:58 PM

okay thank you for your help

Bladerunner - 8-9-2010 at 04:20 PM

Buying a bar isn't going to fix what you described as problems. Getting experience with the kite will !

Speed equals power !!!!!!!!!!

At any point you want your kite to stop pulling / traveling so hard hit the brakes and STOP IT !The slower it travels the less it will pull. ( this changes in motion and at the windows edge when adding brake sets the kite back into to wind ) Not a lot different than pulling in a bar?

I spent a LOT of time and a bit of cash on all sorts of bars for my FB kites. NOTHING beats handles for fine control of a fixed bridle. Your limited cash is way better spent on that helmet and the rest of the proper protective gear.

arkay - 8-9-2010 at 04:27 PM

+1 on blades comments. And it sounds like you should have also launched the kite at the edge of the window.

Maven454 - 8-9-2010 at 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bladerunner
Your limited cash is way better spent on that helmet and the rest of the proper protective gear.

That was why I suggested (in his other thread about this) that he could try my Turbo Bar at Wildwood.

gemini6kl - 8-9-2010 at 05:10 PM

I think your problem is youre flying the wrong sized kite for the wind at 20+ miles per hour u should be flying a 2.5 or max 3m fixed bridle kite yes flying on handels does help with control of the kite just try to fly the right sized kite for the wind, if u feel over power then step down to a smaller kite, get a wind meter if youre not good at telling wind speeds. You really need 2 kites if youre gonna fly ,,,a high wind and low wind kite A high wind is a 2 or 3m kite and low wind is a 5 or 6m fixed bridle kite also u should have gotten a depower kite , sometimes its better to go with your gut instead of taking advise here on this forum cause if i remeber correctly u did want to get a depower and some here talked u out of it, If u do decide to get depowers get like a 4 or 5 m, for high winds and a 7 or 8m for low winds . trust me ive been doing this for years. lastly if u cant afford new kites a another trick is to use short lines like 10m flying lines that will take away about half the power of the kite ,.goodluck.

Kamikuza - 8-9-2010 at 05:40 PM

Like I said in the other thread, you'll spend almost as much money and a whole lot more time making a bar ...

NJLandboarder - 8-9-2010 at 08:22 PM

well on Tuesday i ordered my pansh ace from a sale on here from beach rights i bought his first edition 5m ace
with that i purchased pansh lines and they are all the same lenghth im not sure how long

and i dont really understand how my 2m kite was the wrong size kite?

also i do own a windmeter its a kestral thats how i knew it was 23 gusting to 28

i think its better i stick with fixed bridle now im a newbie and short on cash

also im confused about what my kite killers will do if im useing my harness and a strop

and how should i set my brake lines for what winds because i always find my self putting them on the middle knot because thats what the instruction booklet said recently i started changing them when i was flying yesterday i put them on the last knot is that right?

Maven454 - 9-9-2010 at 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gemini6kl
I think your problem is youre flying the wrong sized kite for the wind at 20+ miles per hour u should be flying a 2.5 or max 3m fixed bridle kite yes flying on handels does help with control of the kite just try to fly the right sized kite for the wind, if u feel over power then step down to a smaller kite, get a wind meter if youre not good at telling wind speeds. You really need 2 kites if youre gonna fly ,,,a high wind and low wind kite A high wind is a 2 or 3m kite and low wind is a 5 or 6m fixed bridle kite also u should have gotten a depower kite , sometimes its better to go with your gut instead of taking advise here on this forum cause if i remeber correctly u did want to get a depower and some here talked u out of it, If u do decide to get depowers get like a 4 or 5 m, for high winds and a 7 or 8m for low winds . trust me ive been doing this for years. lastly if u cant afford new kites a another trick is to use short lines like 10m flying lines that will take away about half the power of the kite ,.goodluck.

Dude. He was flying a 2m. I think that's small enough for 20mph.

lives2fly - 9-9-2010 at 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Maven454

Quote:

Dude. He was flying a 2m. I think that's small enough for 20mph.

How much do you weigh gemini? You always seem to be recommending kites a lot smaller than I would choose. Nobody I know uses a 7m depower as their low wind kite.

A 7m might be fine in average conditions for a youngster or a lightweight chick but for the average adult male it would limit your speed seriously.

Bladerunner - 9-9-2010 at 05:30 AM

Wow a 2m kite is too big for 20mph winds ?
A 7m Depower is a good low wind kite ?

Poor kid ! You really are getting mixed messages !

The knott isn't the thing. Set your brake lines so they have a slight arc when not applied but tight enough to get maximum effect when pulling in on the bottom lines. This may mean adding your own knot in the proper spot ?

Lines stretch so adjustment later may be required.

You are correct that killers are of no effect when hooked in but you should wear them and if needed push out + release. Learn to hanle the kite proper and you hopefully won't ever have to go to them !

gemini6kl - 9-9-2010 at 05:45 AM

Nowhere in your original post did u say u were flying a 2m kite , if in fact u were and was getting thrown around then u were still overpowered for the conditions and needed a smaller kite, or like i said try short lines like 10m. that will further cut the power and lift of the kite to about half. For me a 2m kite at the beach with 23+ miles per hour wind is perfect however on concrete thats getin close to being overpowered on grass a 2m well thats underpowered u see there are many variations to the right sized kite. your break lines should be loose enough so as to not stall the kite or make it want to come down when u fly it at all points in the wind window but tight enough to still be able to tension them with the movement of your wrist by pulling down on handels . i know its confusing but youll get the idea just keep practising.

lives2fly - 9-9-2010 at 06:55 AM

No way can you slide a landboard or get enough speed to do a decent carving turn with a 2m. not unless you are a little kid.

You might be able to roll up and down the beach if the sand is hard enough. but thats it.

and if you are a beginner you are best off not going out in those conditions.

Im not heavy at 155lbs but the only time I thought i wanted anything smaller than a 3.5 it was well over 30mph

kteguru - 9-9-2010 at 08:09 AM

Good for you for buying a helmet that will take care of your head :thumbup:

We've all had a few good whacks and a good helmet always becomes more appealing after them. As far as the kite/bar issue,,,,, I would advise learning your beamer with handles. Putting the kite on a bar doesn't fix poor kite control or make things any safer. Wear kite killers and learn first THEN put on a strop and harness. If you fall off your board, let go of the kite, kite is killed. Get up and try again. Getting up isn't as easy after your head has been excavating the beach as the kite is looping in the middle of the window :smilegrin:

. We've all been there :smilegrin:

. As you begin to become comfortable with handling the kite then begin working on riding the board and learning board control as well. Doing both at the same time will only make the learning curve even longer. As far as adjusting the brake lines,,,,,,,,grab the bottom of the handles,,,,,,does the kite drop from the sky? If you stake the handles down does the kite stay sitting on the sand? If it does than your brakes are fine. You can fine tune an inch here or there to taste but as long as the kite comes down properly when on the brake lines that's all that matters for now. Wildwood is only 4 weeks away so you'll be able to try Mavens turbo bar as well as have access to more than 50 great riders for advice, tips, and tricks. We could get into a lengthy discussion about riding upwind etc. but to simplify things just ask myself or one of the other guys with tandems for a ride at Wildwood. Being on the back of the buggy you'll be able to see first hand and in real time how to ride upwind, downwind, kill power to the kite, keep the kite driving during lulls, smooth transitions etc. etc. etc.. It's the easiest way to learn :thumbup:

. See you at WW. Don't get hurt in the mean time as you'd definately be missing out.:wee:

NJLandboarder - 9-9-2010 at 08:33 AM

well ive been playing around with the brake yesterday i found a sweet spot but i had alot of trouble with the kite flying overhead then balling up and falling to ground

and dont be hatin on my 2m it was my first kite i learned the arts of quad line kits from it.(the transition from sport dual lines wasnt much) but its like a best friend to me i had fun riding with it yesterday in some fields by my house on my board i could ride and carve with it in 8-15mph wind

im soo excited for wwbb im gonna learn soo much

tomorrow is my first day of school so im not gonna get to ride as much as id like to but ill get out on weekends some weekdays

im not really that bad at flying but my biggest problem is knowing the winds direction i would say thats my biggest problem

im probably gonna go out riding later when im finished my summer reading (im a huge procrastinator)

i might be able to go riding this sunday if anyone is the area wants to fly somewhere

thank you everyone for the info i wish i could print it all out and put it into a book and give it to newbies

indigo_wolf - 9-9-2010 at 09:40 AM

If your kite is going to zenith and overflying you can "tap" the brakes to back it down in the window. Or turn it away before it gets there.

If you are flying static, moving yourself back can also keep it from balling up (even though there is a point of no return).

In the case of the latter, it is still possible to recover a balled up kite before it actually hits the ground. BE CAREFUL. If the kite is falling in a ball through the powerzone and you are able to recover it, it will power up very, very quickly. Going from zero to maximum pull with almost no warning.... as fast as the cat realizing you have just taken fish out of the oven. :o Brace yourself for this and know in advance what you are going to do with that power before it ramps up.

As far as getting better at gauging wind direction, that's just going to be a matter of time on the lines. If you are flying inland or school fields where the buildings cause a lot of turbulence, it's just going to go slower and you are just going to have to spend more time flying :thumbup:

No hate for the Beamer 2M.... a Sting 2.4 was one of my first kites and I still love it to bits.... it's never leaving home.

ATB,
Sam

NJLandboarder - 9-9-2010 at 03:58 PM

my new ace came today it was fun but there was little to no wind with some strong gusts i became pretty go at un balling it in the air and on the ground

today i had my first kite jump ever i went about 10 or 12 feet up it was amazing but i dont really know how to jump

also whats the most comfortable handles on the market because my hq ones are a pain in the a$$ the grip isnt soft they are just un comfortable and the attaching lines on the handles are soo thick my brake lines are constantly getting caught on them

WELDNGOD - 9-9-2010 at 04:14 PM

Flexifoil prolink

Bladerunner - 9-9-2010 at 04:17 PM

If you don't have any " windicators " around like trees or flags let your kite find it's way to zenith. It should sit above your head facing straight in to the wind.

It sounds like you have not yet gotten tuned in to 4 line flying ? Your brakes can play a HUGE part in the whole game.
Learn to do brake turns. You should be able to control the kite completely with only brake and no push pull. Learn to stall the kite as it passes through the power zone. Note how much less it pulls if it travels slowly . Once you are moving and powered try adding a bit of brake with the kite at the edge . Sort of = to pulling in the bar and a big power boost as the kite sits back more into the wind !

It sounds like you may be one of the only people I have had to suggest may be hooking in too much too soon? Hooking in is great BUT! I still unhook ( with FB ) when I am pushing it. As you discovered losing it hooked in can be a problem. Often too fast to unhook. Keep wearing that harness and keep hooking in to rest + cruise ( once you are confident ) but you want to be unhooked at any point that you may bite it !
Wilwood is going to be HOOJ for you !!!!!

One tip for upwind - You go where you look.
:bigok:

NJLandboarder - 9-9-2010 at 05:00 PM

when i was flying today i didnt use my harness and i kind of liked it but i got tired after a while and steering my beamer with the brakes is easy but with the ace it tends to ball up when i use brake turns

Maven454 - 9-9-2010 at 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NJLandboarder
also whats the most comfortable handles on the market because my hq ones are a pain in the a$$ the grip isnt soft they are just un comfortable and the attaching lines on the handles are soo thick my brake lines are constantly getting caught on them

I think the regular Ozone handles are the most comfortable ones that I've used. They have a soft cushy outside and a cover on the power leader next to the handle so that it doesn't chafe. I agree that the stock HQ ones are rough for longer flights. Here's a link to the Ozone handles that I like. As with other things, you'll be able to try lots of gear at Wildwood and decide what you like best.

WELDNGOD - 9-9-2010 at 05:26 PM

NJL, be careful with that ACE. They have a reputation for hurtin peeps.

Bladerunner - 9-9-2010 at 06:09 PM

Sounds like you are being too agressive applying the brakes ? Aces are prone to that bunching up but you will learn how to mostly avoid it with time. Try to be delicate in applying them. Same with reverse launching.

Watch out when the kite bunches up ! It will tend to re-open right in the power zone and give you a hit ! Slide it out or hit some brake to slow it down.

NJLandboarder - 9-9-2010 at 06:22 PM

okay and i am aware aces are dangerous but i didnt see any real problems yet

also i think im gonna see if anyone will sell me a set of handles at ww

chudalicious - 9-9-2010 at 09:05 PM

As I am planning WW myself as well as being a newb who just spent major money on some kites, I have a slightly used pair of the comfy ozone handles that I would be willing to part with for a bargain. U2U to discuss more but sounds like it will be a great time!

Maven454 - 10-9-2010 at 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chudalicious
As I am planning WW myself as well as being a newb who just spent major money on some kites, I have a slightly used pair of the comfy ozone handles that I would be willing to part with for a bargain. U2U to discuss more but sounds like it will be a great time!

Spending all of your time with the Turbo Bar?

chudalicious - 10-9-2010 at 07:45 AM

@Maven

Well, because I bought both Flows with the handles and I never use em, I figure I can part with a pair.

Have tried the HQ handles as well and Ozone are hands down, the comfiest.

NJLandboarder - 10-9-2010 at 02:56 PM

u2ued