Power Kite Forum

Update Washington Beaches - baby steps

fletcht - 13-9-2010 at 05:20 PM

Good News, not as good news, and bureaucracy.
First the good news, Washington State Parks staff were pleased with the summer events. We had 6 staff members sitting with us. Three of them would like to become involved in the activity themselves. That is good news. The not so good news is this will be a longer process then I was lead to believe, or which was my understanding. That is part of the bureaucracy part.
I'll try to explain where we are in a short form. Taking a different approach instead of rewriting the WAC (law) which bans wind powered vehicles we are approaching it from rewriting the permit which will allow it. Similar to what BLM does (I guess) Then we would get, apply for a yearly or 6 month permit ( areas might change as to where WPV's would be allowed seasonably) it isn't written yet which would allow us out on the beaches. Changing the law, would require much more restrictive language and would be harder to change little things if needed down the road. The permit process would be easier to enforce and modify. This we believe is a good thing. On the down side, it is a slow process to change either. The next few months will start the process, but it will be at least another year before it is finalized. Bummer.
However, we will be able to continue the current permit process like we had this summer. I will be working with them to try and relax that process a bit also. Maybe to allow for a more open time period, as well as through the winter months. They would like to see us out there during the winter also to give them a better overall picture. I am hoping for maybe a 2 week window of time monthly that we can permit for, or something of that nature. Again these will be restricted to NAPKA members or the newly formed Northwest Blokart Assoc.
As I learn more, I'll inform more. We are ahead of where we were, but not as far as I would of liked to be.

Morrie, Jeff, Steve any other comments? Did I miss anything?

Thanks

bigkid - 13-9-2010 at 05:37 PM

In a nut shell, you said it all.
A couple of things for the best, Parks welcomes the ATB's and the dirt surfers in our next events, so wheeled skates and boards will be included and expected to participate in the upcoming events.
And from what I heard was that the areas of use will be opened up to include other areas of the beach, with our old permits set up for 3 days at a time we would now have a week or so to pick better wind and weather for our time on the beach.
One of the biggies is we have to registrar our intent with NAPKA so Parks can know when to come out and watch.

I do think it was a good meeting as far as the State goes, at a snails pace. I am encouraged more than discouraged. I hope to see some of them out with us in a blokart or with a kite and bug:thumbup:

Keep up the good work Evans, we are all behind you.

Bladerunner - 13-9-2010 at 05:43 PM

Way to go Fletch, :cool:

I have to think that if we show them that this sport is something we would want to do in their " off season " as well it will only help our cause ? Anything that brings people in through the shoulder seasons has to be good for the area ?

I say shoulder seasons because I am pretty sure that most of us Canadians will be hitting the lakes once the H2O firms up ! Jan to March will probably be dedicated to snowkiting Triple 8, Bugeyed and myself ?

Great news about them expanding to ATB ETC. BigKid! Good news for me is that I am finally O.K. to ride my Coyotes again so look forward to getting down South !

bigkid - 13-9-2010 at 06:14 PM

A lot was talked about and at times it seemed to go in circles, then nowhere, then in a completely new direction, then back on track. It was hard to keep everything straight and remember the little stuff.
One of the points brought up was, that we are more or less one sided as far as the public goes with WPV'S and Parks only view of the sport is through us. We need to recruit more people to join the sport so Parks can see how newbies respond to things and how the public responds to the newbies, if that make any sense. We are aware of the rules and are able to put on a good show for Parks, we need some that are willing to show the "Learning side of things". So we need to get some newbies to join.
If anyone can clarify what I just said, please chime in and help me get it strait.
The same rules still apply to the others, (boards etc,) but this may be an opening for many more to join NAPKA.

fletcht - 13-9-2010 at 06:21 PM

Yes, they are interested in the ATB's and skates. But that being allowed is more a part of our insurance then Parks desire. Most of the thanks go to NAPKA for getting the coverage in our insurance. Which I will make a plug here, we need this organization for our sport to continue and grow. Washington State may be the only one where it has come into issue, but believe me, States do look at each other when adopting rule changes. So, if other areas are experiencing issues, then keep this in mind. I am not a group following rule abiding individual, but I do know the value of having an organization behind us to help get things we want.

Off my soapbox.

Bladerunner - 13-9-2010 at 06:31 PM

What a catch 22 ! :crazy:

People can't just see us on the beach and be taught by us ( like at Sunset ) because of membership requirments. Membership isn't simple enough to be handed out on the beach.

They want NAPKA members to be skilled self disciplined riders and at the same time want us to show them people who can't fly or understand the rules! NAPKA and North Americans in general are not certified to teach this sport on land yet ? I would love to see certification happen but NAPKA has to grow a lot for that to become reality.

How about the 3 board members that want to learn? Can we not use them as examples of training ?

fletcht - 13-9-2010 at 07:28 PM

Yes, it is a catch 22. But I think we can still make this work for us. The NAPKA issue is because until there is a rule change we have to do this by special permit. So that Parks are released from liability. Special permits need an organization with insurance to release them from liability. Part of this process is to change the permit process. But, since NAPKA is not a high priced organization it is to any individuals best interest to join the organization and come out and learn. A small price to pay. Maybe we can simplify the membership process. I don't know, this is not my area. I do believe however, they are on our side, and they are working to see how they can create a better process for us.

Morrie Williams - 13-9-2010 at 07:45 PM

Membership could be done on the beach with cash in hand, filling out the waiver, taking a quick photo (even from a cell phone) and assigning a number.

Bladerunner - 14-9-2010 at 06:41 AM

Wow! Streamlining the process like that would be a huge step in the right direction !

That would be great Morrie!


Quote:
Originally posted by Morrie Williams
Membership could be done on the beach with cash in hand, filling out the waiver, taking a quick photo (even from a cell phone) and assigning a number.

Morrie Williams - 14-9-2010 at 08:34 AM

I forgot, we still need the member information filled out!

buggeyed - 20-9-2010 at 12:56 PM

It looks like things are moving in the right direction.

Would it be possible to set up a demo in Nov. at Grayland. Nov 11 is a holiday for us.So a permit from Nov 11 to 14 would work.There would be low tides early afternoon also.All we would need is the weather to cooperate :shocked2:

If it's possible and there's any one else interested I could probably make it down for a couple of days.

Bladerunner - 20-9-2010 at 04:57 PM

Nov. 11 works for me! :cool2:

Morrie Williams - 20-9-2010 at 06:52 PM

Here's the tides for Nov 11-14:


November - Westport, Point Chehalis
Date Day Time Height Time Height Time Height Time Height
11/11/2010 Thu 04:42AM LST 7.8 H 09:46AM LST 4.1 L 03:46PM LST 8.7 H 10:29PM LST 0.5 L
11/12/2010 Fri 05:37AM LST 7.7 H 10:47AM LST 4.2 L 04:44PM LST 7.9 H 11:21PM LST 1.1 L
11/13/2010 Sat 06:31AM LST 7.7 H 11:57AM LST 4.1 L 05:52PM LST 7.3 H
11/14/2010 Sun 12:15AM LST 1.7 L 07:23AM LST 7.8 H 01:10PM LST 3.7 L 07:06PM LST 6.9 H

The day time lows are in the morning at 9:46, 10:47, 11:57 and 1:10.

buggeyed - 20-9-2010 at 07:23 PM

Would the tides be low enough to make an event worthwhile on this weekend? Keeping in mind that some of us are running barrow tires.

Morrie Williams - 21-9-2010 at 06:02 AM

It's any awfully high low tide with only 3+ foot difference between high and low. Unless you have a good wind direction, WSW or WNW, you wont have a lot of space to tack with the normal NW, SW or SE winds. Also the possibility of good morning winds is low. I think it could be a long trip for not much buggying.

csa_deadon - 22-9-2010 at 01:57 AM

buggeyed - 22-9-2010 at 07:54 AM

It looks like it woundn't be worth while to hold an event for Nov 10 weekend if the tides are not low enough.If you guys hold another event some time over the winter I'll try to make it down.

PistolPete - 25-10-2010 at 07:37 PM

Last year I went to the International Kite Festival in Longbeach and was hoping to check out the buggy area (see map on this posting http://pskite.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5328 ). Later they dropped the buggy area from the map but I do not know why? Next year it would be great to get one of the Demo Session approved for Long Beach from August 15 -12, 2011 (http://kitefestival.com )… :eureka:

flash - 26-10-2010 at 05:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PistolPete
Last year I went to the International Kite Festival in Longbeach and was hoping to check out the buggy area (see map on this posting http://pskite.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5328 ). Later they dropped the buggy area from the map but I do not know why? Next year it would be great to get one of the Demo Session approved for Long Beach from August 15 -12, 2011 (http://kitefestival.com )… :eureka:


we had a demo field this year... just no buggies or boards allowed :(. They have asked me to come back for next year, so be assured, a power field will be there!

PistolPete - 15-3-2011 at 07:30 PM

Ok, it's on!

:wee:


Join NAPKA http://www.napkra.org/ and get the skinny on the many opportunities to ride the beautiful Washington State beaches this year including at the International Kite Festival http://kitefestival.com/kite-festival/ :roll:

Morrie Williams - 12-4-2011 at 07:54 PM

The location for buggying and blokarting during the Washington State International Kite Festival is 5 miles up the pennisula at Klipsan Beach NOT at the Kite Festival area.

All buggy pilots must be current members of NAPKA and all blokart pilots must be current members of NWBKA.

lamrith - 9-10-2011 at 09:39 AM

Gredging this one up a bit. Curious on how the year went and what the outlook is for next year? Are we making progress in getting things more opened up?

I did not realise until this week that WPV were specifically illegal on WA park beaches, that was quite a surprise to learn.

Are there any gatherings here in WA coming up before Next Feb?

Morrie Williams - 10-10-2011 at 08:23 AM

Any changes to the laws regarding WPV's are on hold until the bugetary issues have been resolved.

Therefore, the NAPKA and PNWBA (Blokart group) will continue to apply for special event permits. We've applied for some events this fall, but due to the state parS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s "musical chairs" we haven't heard anything regarding these possible events.

As soon as we know about scheduling, we'll let you know!

jellis - 10-10-2011 at 11:05 AM

Thanks for the update. Hopefully we can get back on the beaches before 2012.

Trbo323 - 10-10-2011 at 03:39 PM

ok, so im still new to the sport, but last i heard WPVs are illegal on the beaches, is this true? or is there a way around it now?

csa_deadon - 10-10-2011 at 04:04 PM

Not so much of a way around as it is trying to change the law. NAPKA largely through the efforts of WA buggy pilots is attempting to work with WA state.

In order to buggy on the beaches you have to be a member of NAPKA, and attend a NAPKA sponsored/sanctioned event.

For membership follow the link in my signature line.

lamrith - 10-10-2011 at 04:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by csa_deadon
In order to buggy on the beaches you have to be a member of NAPKA, and attend a NAPKA sponsored/sanctioned event.


Just to clarify, buggying on the beach is only permissable during the sponsored event and if you have membership. The event is not like an "exam" so that after attending an event we can buggy anytime we want...

May seem odd, but there are hobbys where you need to be member, get checked out and then your set to use a facility/area at your leisure so I wanted to clarify...

Morrie Williams - 10-10-2011 at 05:03 PM

You can only buggy during a "special event permit" event held by an insured group. NAPKA and PNWBA are insured groups.

Outside of those "special events", it is still illegal to use wind powered vehicles on any Washington beaches. We are attempting to change the laws so that is no longer the case.

Trbo323 - 10-10-2011 at 08:38 PM

sweet, id like to go out on the beach at some point. i think its a little crazy that once you touch water its ok but a foot onto the sand and with wheels is not allowed

lamrith - 15-10-2011 at 10:46 AM

IS there a link to the actual WAC? The reason I ask is I am curious how it is written up, are WPV illegal in the entire state, or just specifically at the beaches?

I don't want everyone jumping and going full tilt in every park they find, but it would be nice to know if it is legal in other places of the state? Maybe that woudl let us hold more gatherings which lets us show the state how we do things and that opening the beaches can be done safely?

Bladerunner - 15-10-2011 at 11:21 AM

I could be wrong but I think it has most to do with us not having obvious braking abilaty ? Even though we can do so with our kite. :rolleyes:

Morrie Williams - 15-10-2011 at 12:31 PM

Take a look at http://www.mrsc.org/mc/wac/WAC%20352%20%20TITLE/WAC%20352%20... to see the actual WAC which restricts our use of the beaches.

fletcht - 15-10-2011 at 09:38 PM

Thanks Morrie, for the link. As stated in other posts all forms of wind powered vehicles are illegal on Washington Beaches. It really doesn't have anything to do with brakes, wheel size, ability, or whatever. The law was made with very little thinking. We have been working very successfully with Parks these last 2 years and will continue until something is resolved. They have gone through some changes, staff have moved to different positions, etc. However I have been in contact these last two years with just about everyone. I have submitted a permit for the weekend of Oct. 21-23. for Grayland. It has not been approved yet, some folks that are in charge this year have to check with those that were in charge last year to verify the number of permits we have used. Didn't want to take my word for it.
I will also submit a permit for Nov as well, probably up near Copalis. I realize these are not ideal tides or days, we are working around Fish and Wildlife and their clam digs. But on the dates that get posted if anyone can make it it would be great. It is more of an "we are still here" and plan on using the beaches when ever we can.
What we can not afford at this time, are folks just going out and seeing what they can get away with. Been there done that.
And as stated earlier, only permitted events are allowed by NAPKA, or NWBKA. This is because as an organization we have insurance and this releases Parks from liability.

I'll keep folks posted when dates come up for the Winter months.

Evans

lamrith - 16-10-2011 at 07:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by fletcht
What we can not afford at this time, are folks just going out and seeing what they can get away with. Been there done that.
And as stated earlier, only permitted events are allowed by NAPKA, or NWBKA. This is because as an organization we have insurance and this releases Parks from liability.

Evans


I agree completely, lets not ruin all the groups hard work please!

My inquiry had more to do with other locations no on or near a beach. Parks, school, fields (with permission) Last thing I wanted was to get someones permission and then have authorities show up. Not good for flier or land owner..

Morrie Williams - 19-10-2011 at 05:53 AM

Grayland Beach, WA will be open to NAPKA, and NWBKA members this weekend. Oct. 21 - 23.

bigkid - 19-10-2011 at 06:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Morrie Williams
Grayland Beach, WA will be open to NAPKA, and NWBKA members this weekend. Oct. 21 - 23.

OOOOOOOOOH:o:thumbup:

Morrie Williams - 19-10-2011 at 09:45 AM

Here are the tides:

Date Day Time Height Time Height Time Height Time Height
10/21/2011 Fri 01:58AM LDT 1.0 L 09:02AM LDT 7.5 H 02:33PM LDT 3.4 L 08:39PM LDT 7.6 H
10/22/2011 Sat 02:59AM LDT 1.0 L 09:52AM LDT 8.1 H 03:42PM LDT 2.4 L 09:52PM LDT 7.9 H
10/23/2011 Sun 03:55AM LDT 1.0 L 10:36AM LDT 9.0 H 04:40PM LDT 1.3 L 10:58PM LDT 8.2 H