Power Kite Forum

Line swivels

kevnm - 13-9-2010 at 08:32 PM

Old timer at stunt kites. New to power kites. We used to always put swivels at the line connection points, ie: at the bridle or the handle/strap or both, to keep the lines untwisted. Does anyone do this with power foils?

Kamikuza - 13-9-2010 at 08:45 PM

Nope, not any more ... better to LarS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s Head everything in sight :D

indigo_wolf - 13-9-2010 at 09:09 PM

No one that I am aware of. The swivels are generally not strong enough and introduce another point of failure.

Basic line connections on done with a larks head knot.

It's easy enough to untwist the kite by either chainging the direction of your spins or swiveling your body in place.

Some medium size kites on bars employ swiveling pulleys on the brake lines to reduce line twists on the rear lines.



Some depower kites employ various methods to make it easier to untwist lines without taking too much of your attention from flying the kite.

For instance, North Kites uses something called a Roto Head which is a spinning cylinder that the center lines of a depower kite pass through.





If your lines get two twisted you can just turn the Roto Head to untwist them.

Probably waaaay more detail than you wanted.

ATB,
Sam

kevnm - 13-9-2010 at 09:41 PM

Not too much detail, Sam, just a little out of context. The reason we use speedline is so that we can undo the twists that we put in the lines when spinning the kite, by spinning it back in the other direction. It doesn't get bound up like a grippy line would. But, the idea behind the swivels was to prevent each line from being twisted around itself, individually. Thereby shortening them. Or shortening one more than the other. Maybe we never needed the swivels in the first place. Maybe it was so we didn't have to pay attention to how we wound them up at the end of the session. Anyway, thanks for the input, guys.

kevnm - 13-9-2010 at 09:45 PM

Oh, and I can see your point in a swivel being another point of failure, when a power kite can lift you off the ground, and a stunt can't.

arkay - 13-9-2010 at 10:03 PM

All of my LEI kites use swivels, and I really like them. I haven't had one fail, but then again they are all heavy duty since you'll be dangling all of you weight from them. I hear your point about another point of failure, but I'm generally not too concerned when it's a heavy duty metal part that's signifigantly stronger than the kite lines.

What's nice about the swivel is that you just don't have to worry about untwisting your lines. As mentioned some kites swivel at the chicken loop, but that's just a design choice. But most water kites I'm aware of these days incorporate a swivel or some sort. I don't think it's as much of an issue on land, or especially with static flying as you can always loop your kite any which way. But riding powered, it's a nice touch to have the swivel. Some kites like the PL charger w/ navigator bar are now also using a single line from the bar and then splitting it much further up the center line at a swivel. I don't have any good pics of this, unfortunately.

You should be able to insert a swivel into your lines w/o much issue. My kite bars came with swivels, but I assume you could pick up an after market. I found a few replacement parts just googling for kite center line swivel.

Here's what flexifoil uses on their kites... pretty beefy. These aren't your dad's fishing swivels.


Other's that I've seen...


kevnm - 13-9-2010 at 11:03 PM

Funny you mention fishing swivels, because that's what I'm talking about. Except that these are heavy duty for catching BIG fish on a trawling line. They also have a spring clip for quick release so you could unhook your lines to put them on another kite. Then, when you're done, unhook the kite and wind the lines up on a big wooden kite reel similar to a fishing reel. "Into The Wind" used to sell ones made by McMahon. And I just saw some on Ebay, rated at 80lb, but I don't know if that would be heavy enough. May be a moot point now, since my new kite packs up into the stuff bag with the lines still attached.

Kamikuza - 13-9-2010 at 11:06 PM

LarS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s Heads work just as well and are lighter :)

AD72 - 13-9-2010 at 11:26 PM

I just picked up one of those 2010 North Bars and may try it out on the FS Pulse. The swivel works great. I first tried it out on a Rebel. I am not sure if the depower and Y front lines that came with it will work with the Pulse.

WIllardTheGrey - 14-9-2010 at 02:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kevnm
Funny you mention fishing swivels, because that's what I'm talking about. Except that these are heavy duty for catching BIG fish on a trawling line. They also have a spring clip for quick release so you could unhook your lines to put them on another kite. Then, when you're done, unhook the kite and wind the lines up on a big wooden kite reel similar to a fishing reel. "Into The Wind" used to sell ones made by McMahon. And I just saw some on Ebay, rated at 80lb, but I don't know if that would be heavy enough. May be a moot point now, since my new kite packs up into the stuff bag with the lines still attached.


Well most power lines are between 200-300lb and I broke some #150 lines with my HQ Delta Hawk landboarding in 35mph wind , a mare 80lb just isn't gona cut it.

arkay - 14-9-2010 at 06:58 AM

I wouldn't use 80#, for center lines I use at least twice my weight so 400# +

Also, unless you really have to. I'd reccomend not deteaching your lines. that's just asking for tangles. Hopefully your bar has end that allow you to figure eight wrap the lines around it, then just fold the kite tip to center a few times and then place the bar at the bottom of the kite and roll around the bar. I don't have a pic or video for this... I couldn't find one on the tubes, maybe I'll make one over the weekend.

PHREERIDER - 14-9-2010 at 08:25 AM

the critical elements of twist iare safety and reliability.

"winding up" lines can add twisting tension(single line) which a small fishing swivel can easily accommodate but loads it won't do.

twisted lineset during function from a tethering point by looping IS a safety fouling problem. i think its different than what KEVNM wanted to know... i think ....but i have several swivel systems like the flexifoil super simple and reliable and best of all its location makes it self correcting , the navi bar has a below the bar swivel loop like the north and works well these types usually require hand assistance with riding . ALL safety systems with center line release are compromised by twist. bar ends slide (oh chit pulls) are a nice alternative with a suicide leash combo esp. with the flexifoil type above the bar
...and of course a little DIY for entertainment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg-GDX77HhY

arkay - 14-9-2010 at 08:35 AM

Dude, is that a rubber band holding the trim strap to the 'pulley'? :)

Also if you mount a kite hero on your lines the swivel will keep the cam level, rather than having the cam loop with the lines... and what's more important than that :o

Kamikuza - 14-9-2010 at 07:33 PM

The Kite Hero mount would go above the swivel and would still move with the kite ...

arkay - 15-9-2010 at 06:32 PM

It would move with the kite still yet, but if you loop the kite then the lines will not twist and the mout would not be stressed by twists wanting to pull off the lower hooks or the camera will have less tendency to flop upside down with the twists. I have some fun video of what the kitehero hooked up to the v19 doing some funny stuff.