Power Kite Forum

Looking to get my first kite and I'm confused.

jzh797s - 16-9-2010 at 01:50 PM

I currently live in Missouri and would like to get into kite boarding. I have read about the subject and realize I need to get a trainer kite first. Just on my initial research I have narrowed it down to two...

Rush III 3.5 or the Scout 3.0.

What are the advantages to choosing one over the other, cost aside. I realize that the Rush is a 3 line and the Scout a 4, I just don't know what if any advantages one has over the other to a beginner like me.

Any thoughts or suggestions on the subject would be greatly appreciated.

ripsessionkites - 16-9-2010 at 01:58 PM

the rush is more of trainer foil and the scout was designed more for traction in mind.

the 3rd line on the rush is only like a relaunch line and on the scout the four lines allows the kite to have a cross over bridle

if youre looking to have fun on the beach just static flying / just learning - Rush III

and if your future has your thinking buggy or board - Scout

erratic winds - 16-9-2010 at 02:03 PM

Second what ripsession says...you want to get the 4-line trainer as it will eventually stop being your "trainer" and be your "high wind" kite for land-based events like buggy, kiteATB, or kitesnow-whatever.

jzh797s - 16-9-2010 at 02:07 PM

I would defiantly not mind having a kite that when I'm done learning with, will still have some value.

jzh797s - 16-9-2010 at 02:23 PM

Would something like the Ozone Flow, Peter Lynn Hornet, etc. be a better choice for me?

Maven454 - 16-9-2010 at 02:45 PM

Those are both excellent choices.

brplatz - 16-9-2010 at 03:09 PM

:thumbup: for Peter Lynn :bigok:

HQ Beamer is a great option too.

kiteline - 16-9-2010 at 03:31 PM

It's kind of hard to make recomendations without knowing exactly what you have in mind. Give us a little more detail about yourself and you will get more than just general advice. What exactly do you plan on doing with your kites (ATB, Buggy, Snow, etc)? How big are you? Do you plan on sharing your kite with your spouse? Also, are you looking for a bar or handle kite? The Scout II and Rush III Pro are both bar kites while the Beamer comes with handles. To make things more confusing, the Beamer can be converted to a bar pretty easily.

-Mike

Bladerunner - 16-9-2010 at 04:33 PM

Mike is right. I took it from your 1st post that you planned on kitesurf / water.

If water is your goal and you have someplace to play with a trainer in water ( usually the best winds ) then you should be looking at a HQ Hydra as an option.

An open cell on a bar is a good option for : water , ATB, snow and blades but not the only option

Handles are good for : static flying and buggy . Again they aren't the only option.

People riding water , snow , ATB and Blades tend to prefer depower kites once they have learned on a trainer.

Midgaar - 16-9-2010 at 05:35 PM

While the Scout is a 4-line kite, I THINK the Scout II is a 3-line.

Quote:
The new Scout II is essentially a 3-line rig.


Confirmed.

awindofchange - 16-9-2010 at 05:40 PM

Yup, the Scout II is listed as a 3 line kite. What they basically did is join the two brake lines at the kite section and only ran one line down instead of two. More of a technical point than anything, it would still behave like a 4 line kite as long as it was on a bar but would be quite difficult to convert over to handles.

Midgaar - 16-9-2010 at 06:50 PM

It's there a whole pulley system tossed into there too, to make it even more complicated if you wanted to convert to handles?

flyjump - 16-9-2010 at 07:53 PM

Where are you in Missouri? There are a few of us in Springfield if you want to come fly with us

BigMikesKites - 16-9-2010 at 08:06 PM

A hornet or flow would be a logical first step for learning to kite. As would a beamer. 2m or 3m are the suggested starting points.

Noone mentioned a Peter Lynn Twister 3m. Its on the upper end of the spectrum as a starting point, but it will be something you keep around for a long time.

kiteline - 16-9-2010 at 08:09 PM

The Scout II would not be the easiest thing to convert to handles. Here is the manual for the Scout II:

http://www.powerkites.de/images/stories/manuals/manual_scout...

Check out page 4. There is a diagram that is pretty clear.

-Mike

ripsessionkites - 17-9-2010 at 12:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Akulakat
A hornet or flow would be a logical first step for learning to kite. As would a beamer. 2m or 3m are the suggested starting points.

Noone mentioned a Peter Lynn Twister 3m. Its on the upper end of the spectrum as a starting point, but it will be something you keep around for a long time.


if you plan to buggy than a 4line fixed bridle - hornet , flow , beamer. if you have some kite skills already - viper, rII, method, crossfire.

board youll have a better learning curve if you didnt have to manage two handles and just worried about your bar instead from push and pulling / left and right.

the twister is more a jumper, more for static jumping or buggy freestyle.

if you search other posts with kite choices ... you really need to decide what you want to do in your kiting, buggy / board / kitesurf / snow / crossover???

jzh797s - 17-9-2010 at 07:26 AM

Wow thanks for all the great responses!

As I said before I do plan on getting into this sport for the sole purpose of Kite boarding. Love the water. That being said these kind of things have a way of getting under my skin and becoming an obsession so as I look at trainers, I hate the thought of spending all that money and not really using the kite after that. I would love to have a kite that I can learn on and then later still use for maybe Land Boarding.

flyjump: I appreciate the offer! I am actually up in KC, but thats only a couple hours from Springtown.

lives2fly - 17-9-2010 at 07:43 AM

I want to second big Mike on the 3.0m Twister II - it has more lift than the others mentioned so far but is a better Boarding option so will translate to kitesurfing better.

Also consider a 3.5m flexifoil rage. Flexifoil aren't too popular with retailers in the States because they are expensive (import tax) but they are top quality kites and the rage is the best allrounder on the market in my opinion. Beats the flow, and the hornet and easily beats the Beamer and PKD buster.

I bought a 3.5 bullet as a trainer for kitesurfing and have since got into landboarding and i fly it all the time in high winds (which is the winds i get most of the time!)

jzh797s - 17-9-2010 at 09:06 AM

Are there any US websites that sell the 3.0m Twister II?

Midgaar - 17-9-2010 at 10:08 AM

Ripsession sells them.
Dakitez sells them.
awindofchange sells them.
BigMike sells them.

I only have experience, so far, ordering from Dakitez and I couldn't be happier.

Midgaar - 17-9-2010 at 10:27 AM

If your going into the water, you may want to strongly consider the HQ Hydra. It traps the air in making it float on water and able to be relaunched in water. While it won't get you moving on a board it will body drag you. I think anything big enough to kite surf on would be dangerous to learn on. Get a trainer kite, you can always re-sell it or save it for windy days.

ripsessionkites - 17-9-2010 at 12:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Midgaar
If your going into the water, you may want to strongly consider the HQ Hydra. It traps the air in making it float on water and able to be relaunched in water. While it won't get you moving on a board it will body drag you. I think anything big enough to kite surf on would be dangerous to learn on. Get a trainer kite, you can always re-sell it or save it for windy days.


there are some key things to learning to kiteboarding

1. kite control (without this youll never get going - board control is easy to learn but you have to be able to control your kite power first)

2. body dragging (so you feel comfortable getting pulled by your kite without being able to just run back (like on land), also getting back to your board should you fall off, etc.

+1 for the hydra as your trainer

a trainer may sound expensive for a piece of equipment that you will out grow. but you can look around of sites and see if they have used available. if your budget is tight you can also just go with a PL Impulse or HQ Rush instead.

look at it this way, $200.00 for a kite to learn with or get your first LEI / FOIL water kite, and spend $$$ trying to repair it.

jzh797s - 17-9-2010 at 12:38 PM

Is body dragging through the water important enough that I should be looking harder at the HQ Hydra over a 3m Peter Lynn Twister II? As it stands now I am leaning towards the Peter Lynn Twister (even though its a pretty ugly kite compared to the rest) as it seems to still have some value even when I get a larger kite.

Midgaar - 17-9-2010 at 02:36 PM

The Twister II is a step up from a trainer kite. It's designed to have more lift and won't be as forgiving as a trainer would be. It also shouldn't be flown in the water. Once it hits the water it will fill with water and sink, it could pull you down with it if you get tangled or whatever. LEI or foils like the Hydra and Neo don't fill with water and the Hydra was made as a trainer. It's a great cross platform kite that will work in the water, on land, and on snow. I'm not trying to change your mind on the Twister, just be aware that you won't be using it in the water...ever. Indigo_wolf post some great videos containing the Hydra HERE.

Personally I have no ambition to climb in the water and currently considering the Twister II as my next kite, this would be my 4th. I started on the Beamer 3m then picked up a used 4.5m. I wanted a good snow kite and got myself a Montana but I still want something more static flying friendly that will still lift me. As you see this was a progression and I'm sure glad I did it that way. I started on a trainer and still managed to sprang an ankle.

Bladerunner - 17-9-2010 at 04:18 PM

If you want to go on water you really should be taking lessons ! I am amazed no one else has stressed this ?

You learn a LOT of very important stuff taking lessons. The rules for sailing, self rescue, pointers for your local conditions and of course a huge boost in skills fast.

Body dragging is an essential part of kiteboarding. It is one of the 1st things taught in the water .

Lessons are expensive. If you have already bought your trainer and can fly it + body drag with it going in you speed up the lessons greatly and pretty much pay for the kite by getting it done in 2 lessons instead of 3. Paying a little extra for a Hydra allows you to crash and relaunch on the water . With an open cell trainer you will have to take it to shore drain it and start over.

Cutting costs going in to the water results in much slower learning and MUCH more dangerous situations.

ripsessionkites - 18-9-2010 at 01:03 AM

im 50 / 50 for lessons ... i never took lessons and some riders here took lessons and learned nothing (remember the girl that got charged for putting on her harness) and than some learned a lot.

if there is a certified school in the area, than I would say YES - take the advanced course after you have had time on your kite and body dragged on your own.

i say "advanced course" because some beginner courses are just Trainer of Land for a few hours and very little body dragging. Do find out what each course is that they offer and what they cover. if you went with a advance course they should get trying to get you to ride cross wind and maybe have a jetski for water support.

BigMikesKites - 18-9-2010 at 04:03 AM

I recommend either lessons: or hook up with someone who is already doing what you want to do and learn from them.

Show up and watch them, ask them if you can watch them set up or take down....offer to help, but don't be surprised if they say 'no' as they wouldn't be sure you knew what you were doing.

Ask questions. most of us want nothing more than to blab about how great this sport is. A few may want to be left alone. Respect that and move on. It won't take long to find someone willing to help.

jzh797s - 19-9-2010 at 01:58 PM

Well it sounds like there is a general agreement that I should look at the Hydra.

Several questions about this kite...

I am 5'10'' and 145lbs, should I jump into a 3.5m? Also I am curious if I am going to be missing anything with only 3 lines instead of the 4.

Bladerunner - 19-9-2010 at 02:33 PM

Handles do provide more fine control of the brakes . If you only wanted to static fly or move into the buggy they would be a good option but for moving into kitesurfing a bar and a D-loop are a huge avantage.

The 3 line system works fine for relaunch and safety. Leraning to fly comfortably hooked in with a bar is an important step in learning to fly depower. With the Hydra and a bar you can get into the proper position for body dragging. Hooked in , one arm and hand reaching out overhead and the other holding the bar.

For the direction you are headed a bar makes the most sense. 3.5 seems a good size. That bit of extra power will be an advantage onec you try and body drag with it.

It is true that you can work it all out without lessons. If you have someone to teach you , even less need. Lessons DO speed up the learning greatly and teach a lot of important safety things that you would be slow finding out about on your own ? Starting with a kite like the Hydra is a good place to begin , no matter what! Make that move with confidence!

BigMikesKites - 19-9-2010 at 03:03 PM

If you are wanting to get in the water, the Hydra would do fine. Its a decent setup. Don't take anything like a twister, etc into the water. All you will get is an anchor.

jzh797s - 19-9-2010 at 04:12 PM

I realize I wont be doing any water activities w/ anything but the Hydra. I guess my apprehension is that the Hydra being a 3 I feel like I should learn on a 4 line which will be consistent with a big kite.

Should I not consider a depowerable trainer and work with that on land. After the winter and getting my comfort zone on that, buy my big water kite, then work my way up from there?