Power Kite Forum

Where do you attach your leash?

Skwidward - 13-10-2010 at 08:56 AM

I've done a lot of searching and reading, and there is a lot already on this topic in this forum. However, a lot of the photos people put up have gone, and I'm still not clear...or I just have a very old bar and it doesn't apply to me.

My plan is to attach my leash at the "me" end to my spreader bar (I have a velcro toggle thing and if that doesn't work just right to the bar) at the other end to one of my OSR handles. The theory is that when I hit my QR my kite will flag off on that rear line attached to the leash, which, in turn, will remain attached to me, that is unless my kite continues to loop and takes me on a trip I don't want to be part of and I hit the quick release on my leash.

This seems like a safe bet, especially for a beginner. However, It seems like it would be a bit of pain in the future though due to the fact that I wont be able to just spin my bar to untangle my lines (although flying through the air doing 900s and doing kite loops isn't really my goal you just never know).

I see some people attach to the ring where the front lines attach. I see this causing the same problems-not being able to spin the bar. I also see some people attach to the chicken loop (suicide), which is not something I'm even considering.

What confuses me is I see people have their leash attached to what appears to be right at the chicken loops, or an extra chord by the chicken loop, or what looks like a line that runs up through the hole in the bar to the point where the front lines attach. I don't see anyway on my bar where this would be possible. I mean I could attach it just above my chicken loop, and then when I pull my QR, the bar would move up and my leash would be attached to basically the front lines. The thing with this is that isn't this giving the kite the same amount of depower as just letting go of the bar? or as if I was attached suicide? If so, what's the point? You get into trouble, let go of the bar. You are still in trouble, so you pull the QR only to find that you haven't depowered the kite any more than it already was. Am I missing something?

flash - 13-10-2010 at 09:02 AM

This might help clear up some confusion, what kite are you flying? Some DP have a specific leash attachment point.

PHREERIDER - 13-10-2010 at 09:04 AM

a leash keeps you attached to the kite. with 2 options

1. on the flag line, where kite is off but still attached to you so you can control the flagging rig. Typical safety set up of OME

2. on the loop or right above on the main line. for unhooked action and freedom from leash entanglement. if you let go on handle pass the kite is still ON and still attached to you, hence the suicide tag. you can still regain control after a little tumble most of the time

InvertedForce - 13-10-2010 at 09:08 AM

Some kites have a fifth line which travels up (Flysurfer FDS is a good example) the bar and usually connects to one of the leading edges, (or in Flysurfer's case, the center bridle) that way when you pull the QR on your chicken loop, the leash is attached to a small ring and it holds that single line, allowing the kite to flag out.

Depending on the kind of bar you have, what kind of kite you have, etc, there are many options for where to attach your leash.

When I'm flying my smaller kites (Peter Lynn ARC's) I have a 04 bar that doesn't have a swivel leash attachment. Its a pain in the butt, and you can get tangled up sometimes if you're not careful.
When I fly my bigger kites with the 07 bar, It has a swivel around the top of the chicken loop. The chicken loop assembly stays connected to the harness and it detaches at the top, allowing the bar to move up as the kite flags out, but the leash is attached between the CL and the OS Ring.

Hope that helps. What kind of equipment are you working with?

Skwidward - 13-10-2010 at 09:17 AM

I have a 2008 Best nemesis HP 12m. The bar I have is an old slingshot. The one this guy's using in this youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7yg2jVl35c

I just ordered a 46" leash from PKS, as I'm gonna need some length to go from my harness to the OSR handle.

Skwidward - 13-10-2010 at 09:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PHREERIDER
a leash keep you attached to the kite. with 2 options

1. on the flag line, where kite is off but still attached to you so it you can control the flagging rig. Typical safety set up of OME

2. on the loop or right above on the main line. for unhooked action and freedom from leash entanglement. if you let go on handle pass the kite is still ON and still attached to you, hence the suicide tag. you can still regain control after a little tumble most of the time


What you describe in "1." is what I'm after right now as a beginner, and what you describe in "2." is what I'm looking to have to do in the future when I'm comfortable pulling my QR and still being attached to a powered kite.

Is there no way to set it up where it will flag on the leash and wont have to "cross" the bar?

What's OME?

bobalooie57 - 13-10-2010 at 09:28 AM

Prob. meant OEM? (original equipment manafacturer)

PHREERIDER - 13-10-2010 at 10:01 AM

only if you have through bar/through the loop safety set up. like a front line flag or 5th.

if a line is placed through the bar(for a front line slide release) ALL the parts/connectors must SMOOTHLY slide through bar center. if they don't, TROUBLE will ruin your day!

a bar end slide is doable, but still in the way.

like BOB said, original equipment . thanks

van - 13-10-2010 at 10:26 AM

Mark,

Are you from Houston? I recently sold a 2008 12M Nemesis HP with a slingshot bar to a Mark in Houston. Either way, welcome to the forum.

Van

Skwidward - 13-10-2010 at 11:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by van
Mark,

Are you from Houston? I recently sold a 2008 12M Nemesis HP with a slingshot bar to a Mark in Houston. Either way, welcome to the forum.

Van

Hello mate,

Yeah, that's me. I had the kite down the beach a couple of weekends back. Had it inflated, got strapped in etc., had the wife holding it for launch but decided not to launch because I had no leash, the winds were up, and I didn't fancy having to release and watch it fly away.

I actually figured at the time this kitesurfing probably isn't for me and was going to just stick with groveling in the small surf on a longboard, but I recently watched a couple of guys kiteboarding in galveston. One of them was tearing it up on shortboard, so I changed my mind. :)

How was Florida?

dylanj423 - 13-10-2010 at 11:55 AM

howdy mark... im also in houston... welcome to the sport...

where do you go to fly/ ride... maybe we can meet up next time the wind blows...

i attach my leash to my spreader bar, that way it is attached to me should i pull th quick release.... my peter lynn bar doesnt use a leash, rather the safety is built into the bar and attaches via the chicken loop

in any case... if you like buggying or landboarding you should come check out dead bird buggy bash on galveston over thanksgiving week...

good luck

bluefunelement - 13-10-2010 at 12:46 PM

Today I attach my leash to my harness leash line and the "suicide" clip in the chicken loop as Ozone Instincts are incredibly depowered with the bar all the way out.
When I was just starting I would attach the leash to a flagout connection below the bar but it was their first design and both wrapped around the chicken loop line and also didn't depower the kite at all if pulled. They scraped the design and I had to attach to the depower pull strap above the bar but at the same time upgraded my harness to one that had a safety loop - this way I could attach a long leash and wrap it over my head if it got twisted. I don't see why this wouldn't work with your Best?




This lasted till I could do backrolls and couldn't keep track of how many in each direction so I just gave up and went suicide and haven't looked back. Now the newer kite designs including Instincts include a better below the bar flag out line - this is the best of both worlds since you can quickly attach to either and you can also avoid all wrapping of lines or leashes. Do your self a favor and upgrade to a chicken loop with such an attachment.

Skwidward - 13-10-2010 at 04:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dylanj423
howdy mark... im also in houston... welcome to the sport...

where do you go to fly/ ride... maybe we can meet up next time the wind blows...

i attach my leash to my spreader bar, that way it is attached to me should i pull th quick release.... my peter lynn bar doesnt use a leash, rather the safety is built into the bar and attaches via the chicken loop

in any case... if you like buggying or landboarding you should come check out dead bird buggy bash on galveston over thanksgiving week...

good luck
Thanks.

I always go to san Luis pass. Love it down there. I've seen lots of buggies there, but I'm normally over the other end of the beach.

If I'm not working ill be at the dbbb. I remember the chick at kitesunlimited telling me about that years ago but never went.

Cheers

Skwidward - 13-10-2010 at 05:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluefunelement
Today I attach my leash to my harness leash line and the "suicide" clip in the chicken loop as Ozone Instincts are incredibly depowered with the bar all the way out.
When I was just starting I would attach the leash to a flagout connection below the bar but it was their first design and both wrapped around the chicken loop line and also didn't depower the kite at all if pulled. They scraped the design and I had to attach to the depower pull strap above the bar but at the same time upgraded my harness to one that had a safety loop - this way I could attach a long leash and wrap it over my head if it got twisted. I don't see why this wouldn't work with your Best?

[img]http://www.live2kite.


This lasted till I could do backrolls and couldn't keep track of how many in each direction so I just gave up and went suicide and haven't looked back. Now the newer kite designs including Instincts include a better below the bar flag out line - this is the best of both worlds since you can quickly attach to either and you can also avoid all wrapping of lines or leashes. Do your self a favor and upgrade to a chicken loop with such an attachment.
[img]http://kiteboarding.com/prodimages/megatrong]

I would love new gear, but stuff to do with kitesurfing is so expensive. I just got my kite, bar, harness from van and will be Lucky to get a board for Christmas.

This is the exact bar I have sevensports.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SS&Product_Code=05SBar&Category_Code=

I'll be attaching my leash just like the wrist leash in the pic.

Depending on how the nemesis behaves when depowered I may have to go suicide in the future, but I'll probably just get a new/used bar by then.

I understand connecting your leash to the CL for riding unhooked (and even the double leash system), but I don't understand attaching it just above the CL on a system like I have (without a flag or 5th line attachment at the CL). If you do attach just above the CL and pull your QR, your main line will detach from the CL and the kite will be attached to you at the main line below the bar by your leash, but the bar's only gonna move toward the kite as far as the stopper or trim strap adjust, which will only depower it to the same extent as just letting go of the bar when hooked in. So what's the benefit of pulling the QR on the CL if you attach your safety above the CL on a system like mine?

I only ask because it seems some people ride this way.

van - 13-10-2010 at 06:11 PM

Mark,

I assume you got the missing hose for the pump!! I actually been going down to Port Aransas lately. As soon as the wind picks up one of these weekends, Dylan and I can meet up with you at SLP. I will most likely be at DBBB also. Florida was nice but the wind wasn't there. I didn't have anything bigger than a 9M after I sold you my 12M so spend most of the time laying on the beach :)

btw.. if you want to be able to attach to that little ring above your chicken loop ( currently missing from your bar) , you will need to MOD you bar to use a mini 5th. It will make more sense to you once you see it.

Van

bluefunelement - 13-10-2010 at 07:22 PM

Kinda jumping in 1/2 through but just incase you don't know the Ozone Megatron has a beal line that runs through the spinner and chicken loop and is knotted to the suicide loop under the chicken loop. If you stick with the same diam beal line you could order your own length and VERY easily replace what it ships with. Also if you want to provide extra wear protection just use some plastic tubing from the water section in Home Depot and run your beal line through before installing it - I have 3 - an older one with the plastic fused beal line - a new beal only and one older one with beal and a plastic tubing and it's amazing how much the plastic tubing has saved wear/tear


http://atlantickiteboarding.com/tech-ozone.html

Skwidward - 14-10-2010 at 09:47 AM

So after a lot of reading I understand a lot more about what is going on now. A mini 5th line looks like my best bet, and I would have to fit that to my bar with the megatron set up suggested by bluefunelement for it to work with my bar. Where it gets complicated is where to attach that mini 5th line to allow for complete depower/flagging of the kite (if I connected it to my center line swivel thing it would only give the same amount of depower you get when letting go of the bar). Seems this is different for different kites, and some have some pretty cool set ups like the complete set up from ozone where it flags out on only one front line. Man I wish I had the money for that.

Thanks for all the help trying to understand this!


Van, I may be heading down SLP Sunday with family regardless of wind.

dylanj423 - 14-10-2010 at 10:30 AM

just make sure it works before you rely on it

Skwidward - 14-10-2010 at 11:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dylanj423
just make sure it works before you rely on it

Absolutely. I will definitely be using one of my OSR handles as an attachment point (just like in the picture with the wrist leash). I'll do this untill it becomes a problem, which I don't see being anytime soon.

bluefunelement - 14-10-2010 at 11:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skwidward
.... suggested by bluefunelement for it to work with my bar. Where it gets complicated is where to attach that mini 5th line to allow for complete depower/flagging of the kite (if I connected it to my center line swivel thing it would only give the same amount of depower you get when letting go of the bar).


Unless your kite has a "Y" center bridle way up the lines like F-Ones then you could do away with the swivel since the megtron will itself swivel for you. - buy the Ozone tri-ring and run your center lines through it and attached to rings so they can pull toward you but not back and then you attach your flag out extension line from that ring through the bar and chicken loop. You can even switch which front line it pulls through so you can land it into the wind properly.

Skwidward - 18-10-2010 at 08:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluefunelement
Quote:
Originally posted by Skwidward
.... suggested by bluefunelement for it to work with my bar. Where it gets complicated is where to attach that mini 5th line to allow for complete depower/flagging of the kite (if I connected it to my center line swivel thing it would only give the same amount of depower you get when letting go of the bar).


Unless your kite has a "Y" center bridle way up the lines like F-Ones then you could do away with the swivel since the megtron will itself swivel for you. - buy the Ozone tri-ring and run your center lines through it and attached to rings so they can pull toward you but not back and then you attach your flag out extension line from that ring through the bar and chicken loop. You can even switch which front line it pulls through so you can land it into the wind properly.



I see what you're saying. My center lines run through what I guess you could call a "tri-ring." It's like three metal rings joined as one piece in a pyramid formation. To set my center lines up like you suggested I'd have to cut mine, as my center lines are all one line if you know what I mean. The middle of the one line is attached at the tri-ring and each end is one of the center lines. If I did that, I'd have to be super careful to get the lengths right etc.

Like I said though, I will probably fly my set up like I have it (attached to the OSR handle) for a long or until it become a problem.

In the picture in your last post I see the two center lines, but is the line in the middle? Must be a 5th line?

bluefunelement - 18-10-2010 at 10:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skwidward
In the picture in your last post I see the two center lines, but is the line in the middle? Must be a 5th line?


Yes - 5th line to kite but only used for anti-invert and some remove the line completely. My first kite used this as the pull through but that was soooo wrong an idea - just held the kite downwind and fully opened :shocked2:
OSR handle is good but if it's a steering handle and you pull your chicken loop while any lines are wrapped around the bar you might cause a "death spiral" -
I'd prefer to be connected to one center line and use the OS lines just for flagging out on landing

maybe I read your post wrong

Skwidward - 18-10-2010 at 11:06 AM

Yeah, one of the OSR handles on one of the outside lines. The death spiral doesn't sound all that appealing...but this is my only option right now.

I like the ozone megatron setup. Is there a certain way to convert the front lines i described or is just as simple as cutting them to make to separate lines and then tie a ring to each? Getting the length right might be a bit tricky. Maybe once I get a better feel for the kite I feel a bit more confident cutting those lines.

EDIT: Looking at my lines a little closer, the part I'm talking about having to cut is actually separate from the front lines themselves. I'm gonna attach a pic.

Skwidward - 18-10-2010 at 11:29 AM





Here you can see what's going on. The way the front lines attach to that "tri-ring" bit are via this extension line (probably has a proper names). I could attach rings to the front lines easy using a larS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s head it would just leave the front lines that much shorter......

bluefunelement - 18-10-2010 at 03:41 PM

What are your line legnths sheeted in? Out?
If you can adjust or shorten your outer lines the same amount then it will fly the same.
I'm about to do this to some lines so I'll post how it goes.

Coming to wildwood?

bluefunelement - 19-10-2010 at 10:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nbkiduhjgn
Web traffic is not cheap.


who let nbkiduhjgn waste our web traffics?

Skwidward - 21-10-2010 at 12:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluefunelement
What are your line legnths sheeted in? Out?
If you can adjust or shorten your outer lines the same amount then it will fly the same.
I'm about to do this to some lines so I'll post how it goes.

Coming to wildwood?
I'm not sure how long the lines are. I'll have to do the attach them to the fence trick to figure out if they are all the same length. Should all 4 lines be the same length? And if so at what point? Say front lines trimmed all the way out with the bar halfway between the stopper and the chicken loop? I know I ask a lot of questions :)

Not going to wildwood. Sounds like fun though.

bluefunelement - 21-10-2010 at 07:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skwidward
I'm not sure how long the lines are. I'll have to do the attach them to the fence trick to figure out if they are all the same length. Should all 4 lines be the same length? And if so at what point? Say front lines trimmed all the way out with the bar halfway between the stopper and the chicken loop? I know I ask a lot of questions :)

Not going to wildwood. Sounds like fun though.


As long as you know what they are stock then you can match that - same for extensions - doesn't matter as long as they are all equal so you don't change your depower ratio

cdakiter - 21-10-2010 at 08:52 AM

Ok, safety guy chiming in... Not much of a poster, and only an occasional lurker, But... I gotta chime in!
I like the enthusiasm on this forum, and the help offered is always "neighborly," yet I'm a bit concerned with the whole newbie with a 12m, wife launching me while I'm strapped in, where the heck does my leash go type of red flag, and nobody asks about the level of experience? Have you flown a 12m kite before? Any lessons?
Not trying to be patronising, I've just dealt with alot of these scenarios over the years where people want sooo bad to be kiters, that they forego training on small gear. Then they go buy large kites, and put their lives in the hands of Darwin's theory, have a brush with death, and sell their gear.
Again, no offence intended. Just trying to put the horse before the cart here.
cda

Skwidward - 22-10-2010 at 02:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by cdakiterI'm a bit concerned with the whole newbie with a 12m, wife launching me while I'm strapped in, where the heck does my leash go type of red flag, and nobody asks about the level of experience? Have you flown a 12m kite before? Any lessons?
Level of experience: with lei kites?
-None.

Have you flown a 12m kite before?
-no.

Any lessons?
-none.

:)
The question was, where do you attach 'your' leash?

cdakiter - 23-10-2010 at 09:03 AM

I understood the question.... But as I saw in earlier posts, you went from a trainer to a 12m kite with no lessons. I had to bring up the glaringly obvious. Cart before the horse is a harsh way to learn how to kite.
No experience other than a trainer, no small depoweable kite, no baby steps, and your wife launching your 12m while strapped in.
Geezus.
Be careful man. I hope you have full coverage insurance.
I've got a 30k doctor bill myself from kiting, pre health insurance, lol. (Not funny, actually ) I simlpy fell backwards snowkiting in 15mph winds with a 7m and bonked my head on the ground, blew a dicsk in my neck, and nearly lost the ability to walk. I will be mildly handicapped the rest of my life from this sport. (but still addicted) Lots of experienced kiters get hurt every year, (eg: Kinsley Wong) some die.
Again, not to be patronising, but ANYONE who would just hussle you along without bringing up the "Hey, do you know your putting your life in danger" point is just plain irresponsible imo. Too much of this going on in our sport.
I just diddn't see anyone looking out for your health and future, that's all.
My 2 cents. Rant off.

Skwidward - 30-10-2010 at 06:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by cdakiter
I understood the question.... But as I saw in earlier posts, you went from a trainer to a 12m kite with no lessons. I had to bring up the glaringly obvious. Cart before the horse is a harsh way to learn how to kite.
No experience other than a trainer, no small depoweable kite, no baby steps, and your wife launching your 12m while strapped in.
Geezus.
Be careful man. I hope you have full coverage insurance.
I've got a 30k doctor bill myself from kiting, pre health insurance, lol. (Not funny, actually ) I simlpy fell backwards snowkiting in 15mph winds with a 7m and bonked my head on the ground, blew a dicsk in my neck, and nearly lost the ability to walk. I will be mildly handicapped the rest of my life from this sport. (but still addicted) Lots of experienced kiters get hurt every year, (eg: Kinsley Wong) some die.
Again, not to be patronising, but ANYONE who would just hussle you along without bringing up the "Hey, do you know your putting your life in danger" point is just plain irresponsible imo. Too much of this going on in our sport.
I just diddn't see anyone looking out for your health and future, that's all.
My 2 cents. Rant off.
Sure, your point was pretty clear in your last post, and I put a smiley to let u know I wasn't trying to be smart.

I participate in a few dangerous activities, always have done. I've broken ribs, my hand, and even my elbow (that I still can't lean on properly because of lose bits of bone in there :) ). I'm very cautious and only take calculated risks (that sounds humorous reading it back after stating what bones I've broken...lol). Any mistakes I make along the way while learning to kitesurf are down to me and me only. I'm very much of the mind that one is responsible for one's own actions. The responses I received in this thread were extremely educational. I believe any advice given anywhere is taken "at one's own risk." Of course, it is irresponsible to hand out bad advice to a clueless person looking to partake in a dangerous activity. That is not what has happened here.

I hope you can appreciate the irony of a person who brakes their back kiteboarding without health insurance handing out advice on being responsible. :D

Maybe you should make a post in the beginners look here sticky thread.... seriously. Then it will always be there, and all beginners here will see it.

BTW I'm still considering selling my kite. It just seems so involved and expensive. We'll see though. I had such a rad time at the beach yesterday bodydragging with my trainer kite that I just don't know if I can't not learn to fly across the water :)

bluefunelement - 30-10-2010 at 07:03 AM

Once your skilled with the trainer take your LEI out in 11mph winds. Not 10 not 12...11.
Just kidding - but seriously take it out in light winds where you have to work to keep it up and practice doing just that. Then let it land downwind of you and pull your release and practice your emergency stuff. You can do this in a soccer field if you don't have enough beach.

Besause of this I can self launch and land my LEI 4 different ways and have been able to emergency land it despite no flag out line.

Then when you get into an emergency you know what to do - and get lessons. :karate: