Power Kite Forum - Some Advice In Choosing An LEI/SLE?

Some Advice In Choosing An LEI/SLE?

Seanny - 25-10-2010 at 07:18 PM

Okay, so.
I need to expand my quiver a bit. I am very interested in buying an SLE (I have my eye on an Ozone Catalyst 2010). I do not have very much experience with this type of kite, and due to my location, getting lessons would be nearly impossible. Also, I am going to be going to college soon, and as this gear is expensive, I would like to make a worthwhile investment.

There will be plenty of open space for landboarding, and even some lakes close by that could possibly accommodate kiteboarding... However, the wind is less than optimum for an SLE. Wind speeds probably average at about 14 MPH or less, and it varies greatly. Some days there will be winds over 20MPH, but it isn't predictable like a beach.

I am very light. 6'0 and 130 lbs., believe it or not. This makes choosing the right kite somewhat difficult... I really like the Ozone Catalyst 2010, I have heard nothing but good things about it... was thinking maybe a 10m, but I don't know if it would overpower me in winds strong enough to get it up. Would it be effective in light-moderate winds, given my weight? Again, testing kites is VERY hard for me, as I live in the middle of NOWHERE.

I don't want to get something too small or too big, but I want something I can keep for a long time and will not outgrow. The ability to use the Catalyst on water and land is very appealing, but if it simply can't work because of the relatively light wind, would maybe an 8/10m Ozone Access or Air Evo X Air better suited? 9m Frenzy? I have a decent amount of depowerable foil experience, but I would really like an SLE. *Sigh*

If anyone could help me get this mess straightened out, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks,
Sean

Bladerunner - 25-10-2010 at 07:25 PM

Ever tried an arc ?

14 - 20 is right around the sweet spot for my 15m Syn and Charger with room to go well over 20. I'm only 150 lbs. Rip' will fly the same kite into the 30's and weighs even less than you.

Seanny - 25-10-2010 at 07:40 PM

A 15m in 30+? :shocked2:

Maybe not just yet! I understand stepping up to the plate and having to cope with a sharp learning curve, but I don't think I'm ready for that!

The Arc sounds like a good idea, though. Is a bigger kite really the answer? I don't want to be overpowered in decent winds, or when I go to the shore...

A lot of guys these days (at least that I've seen) are questioning why there's so much hype about 12-14m+ kitesurfing kites. They say it's overkill?

Do you have an opinion on the Catalyst?

Cheers,
Sean

erratic winds - 25-10-2010 at 07:41 PM

edit made my post invalid. nothing to see here.

Seanny - 25-10-2010 at 07:47 PM

What happened?

Seanny - 25-10-2010 at 08:43 PM

Hmmm, actually, isn't the power of a PL Twinskin equivalent to a tube kite roughly 3/4ths it's size?? :puzzled:

If so, a 15m Twinskin wouldn't seem so bad.

Cheers,
Sean

csa_deadon - 25-10-2010 at 08:59 PM

15m would be a good jumping off point. The PL twin skins will give you years of great flying.

Wish I still had mine.

Kamikuza - 25-10-2010 at 09:40 PM

You're going to have to get more than one kite or board though, eventually. Can't go wrong with any of the modern LEI gear - especially Ozone or Cabrinha IMHO :D I like the IDS on the Cab - just let the bar go and the kite will depower by like, 90%.

It all depends on your local wind conditions - ours is mostly sweet F.A 90% of the time, hence my need for the SA2 19 and the Xbow 16 ...

bluefunelement - 26-10-2010 at 04:24 AM

What kind of landboarding and kiteboarding do you see yourself doing in the next 2 years?
Cruising -jumping - freestlye
What's your experience kiting in general?

I'm reading into your comments that you have alot of inland gusty wind which does back the Peter Lynn option - good range and they like to stay in the air and eat gusts. Although for kiteboarding you will need enough room for launch/landing.

For gusty conditions I now prefer SLE/LEI over foils despite the more complex setup. I like my Ozone's and the 2006 Instincts are cheap and bullet proof - albeit a little heavy - but my 13m will get me going in 14mph. Closer to 12mph it can stall and act up. A 9/13m combo would likely suit you. The 2007-2008 were lighter but also had less direct pull in my opinion although thats what I ride now.

Of course a new 12 Catalyst might have the range you need.

http://classified.ikitesurf.com/classifieds.pl?db=kiteboards...

http://classified.ikitesurf.com/classifieds.pl?db=kiteboards...

http://classified.ikitesurf.com/classifieds.pl?db=kiteboards...

Bladerunner - 26-10-2010 at 06:45 AM

I am shocked at how high of winds Rip' will hold down that syn in also !

My only big complaint it the arcs need about 10 to fly. That doesn't sound like a problem.

I can't comment on SLE but expect you should find one that fit in for 14 - 20?

Seanny - 26-10-2010 at 07:21 AM

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I'm looking to do mostly freestyle. Just out to have fun. A kite with good pop and float would be ideal.

In the past, I used my 8m Access XC, it covered just about all of the range I need in just one kite, even light wind because of my weight... In stronger winds I use a 4 or 6m. However, my friend caught a nasty gust and flew my XC into a barbed wire fence. It didn't turn out so well. I wailed him for it.

So, that being said, I need a new good all-around kite that covers a large wind range and meets my needs. I don't mind getting more than one kite, it's just I need something to start with.

Thinking a 12m Catalyst? Maybe add on an 8 or 10 later?

Thanks SO much for the links, I'll definitely take those into consideration!

Twinskins are tight. How's the water relauchability on them?

Cheers,
Sean

BeamerBob - 26-10-2010 at 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seanny
Thanks everyone for the replies.

Twinskins are tight. How's the water relauchability on them?

Cheers,
Sean

Many arc fliers will think about that question and then say they don't know since it never has gone in the water. On my last session when it all came together, my 15 synergy hit the water twice and was back flying in seconds. It's really not an issue unless you leave it floating for quite a while like if the wind just stops blowing.

bluefunelement - 26-10-2010 at 10:16 AM

It's not the relaunch as much as the launch/landing site. I do feel the LEI gives me
more options on a very small beach or water drift launch. I do fly with those who make it happen with twinskins as I used to but it just seems like more of a risk with all the debris we have locally.

Seanny - 26-10-2010 at 04:26 PM

Hmmm, Twinskin is really starting to catch my attention.

My primary use will probably be for landboarding, but the fact that these kites can go on water is a bonus. I'd really like to gain more experience on a kiteboard.

Would the Catalyst be alright on land? I don't why it shouldn't. As long as I don't pop the tube or anything.

Still trying to take into account my weight...

Cheers,
Sean

bluefunelement - 26-10-2010 at 04:46 PM

Tubes can pop on land or ice/snow but wear tear is more likely to
scuff and cut up the threads around all the exposed seams. Concrete is the worst.

Catalyst will be fine but don't discount a used kite with new bar/lines/safety. I seem to go through a used LEI each 3yrs. I don't think new would extend that much.

Best bet- drive/fly out somewhere for water lessons and back with a new/demo kite?

Seanny - 26-10-2010 at 04:56 PM

Quote:

best bet- drive/fly out somewhere for water lessons and back with a new/demo kite?

I go to see some family in Florida quite frequently. I could probably do that. I don't mind learning on my own, though. I like to figure things out. I don't know how much different it is on water... can't be THAT difficult... and I'm pretty good at wakeboarding.

I think I'll go for a 12m Catalyst. The ground I fly on is generally soft and grassy. Not too worried about messing up the tube badly. And being in Texas...well...snow isn't really a factor. :p

But, I will do everything I can to test out some Twinskins (Arc, Charger?) and the Catalyst, and see which I like best myself. And possibly some other kites...although the sport is unheard of here, so it'd be tough.

Cheers,
Sean

tridude - 26-10-2010 at 05:31 PM

alright foilheads move over.....................go for the 10m.......it will create as much power thru forward/turning speed as the 12m with greater range

http://www.powerkiteshop.com/ozone_catalyst.htm

bluefunelement - 26-10-2010 at 06:07 PM

"Wind speeds probably average at about 14 MPH or less, and it varies greatly. Some days there will be winds over 20MPH, but it isn't predictable like a beach. "

"I'm looking to do mostly freestyle."

12m is my suggestion - unless you had clean coastal winds and hard sand you're gonna need some grunt. Ozone's depower np but you will not jump and float with a 10 in less then 14mph winds. On the water you can scrub more speed but on land you'll need two kites - 12 and 8 would be great or 9/13.

IMHO

shaggs2riches - 26-10-2010 at 07:58 PM

Now I'm no expert nor do I claim to be, but just wondering if you have ever considered a Naish Sigma series kite??? My friend flies the 15meter cult and it handles the gusty crap we get quite nicely. A 10 meter or if your okay the 12 meter would do fine. There is also even some deals on them here:

http://kiteboarding.com/products.asp?cat=Kite+Garage+Sale+20...

Seanny - 26-10-2010 at 08:39 PM

Naish Sigma?? I think I've taken a look at them, but never thought about it too deeply. I'll definitely look into it, any advice is good advice.

I'm open to anything. Thanks!

Also, does anyone have any thoughts for the LF Envy 2010? I hear they have a phenomenal wind range & are super stable. 12m option there as well, and the CPR control bar is oh so sexy.

Lots of discounts and package deals also. I haven't seen anyone using them much for landboarding, but I don't see why it wouldn't excel on land as well.

Check this out. http://www.mackiteboarding.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?preadd=ac...

Cheers,
Sean

BeamerBob - 26-10-2010 at 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tridude
alright foilheads move over.....................go for the 10m.......it will create as much power thru forward/turning speed as the 12m with greater range

http://www.powerkiteshop.com/ozone_catalyst.htm

Foilheads? :wow: Coming from the man with no signature. Seems like the last arc I bought was from a fellow you remind me of back in Chucktown SC. I still trust what you say about kites though. And you did see the light about kite buggies. :thumbup:

......................................

Bladerunner - 27-10-2010 at 06:52 AM

Quote:

You said it T'dude!

Keep with your original plan if it is what you want. We are a bit foil positive here so be aware of that.

Sounds like the 10 will give you the widest wind range ?

Seanny - 27-10-2010 at 07:08 AM

Are you sure a 10 isn't too small?

What do you think about a 10 or 12 LF Envy? Huge wind range on those also.

Cheers,
Sean

BeamerBob - 27-10-2010 at 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bladerunner

You said it T'dude!

Keep with your original plan if it is what you want. We are a bit foil positive here so be aware of that.

Sounds like the 10 will give you the widest wind range ?

I was just thinking how great it is that even if we are foil positive, we aren't negative towards inflatables, except for tridude........... Oh wait a minute, he likes them now. :lol:

PSSHHHHshhhh

PHREERIDER - 27-10-2010 at 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeamerBob

Quote:

Originally posted by Seanny
Thanks everyone for the replies.

Twinskins are tight. How's the water relauchability on them?

Cheers,
Sean

right on bob!

BTW SEAN, tubes on land are fun and i used both tubes and arcs on land and water for a few years . Cabs are great choice for water BUT over time the land will beat it up quick! ARCS will tolerate land use better. when all my tubes are busted or leaking any arc in the truck is ready to go land or water. thats the difference PLUS no pump pleasure! so land rides can be quick and tidy with very light gear out to your spot . oh yeah the auto zenith is perfect for a break, a rest PLUS i am the only guy on my local that can launch first , then help every other tube launch/land while MY RIG IS UP.

tridude - 27-10-2010 at 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeamerBob

Quote:

......................................

OMG relax................... :smilegrin:

If you go inflato a 10m will develope plenty of power for a 130lb rider............self launch and land require some practice but not difficult.........Phree and BBob are correct on arcs..................easy peasy launch and land..........relaunch on water with the Synergy not an issue...........BBob was 3 for 3 on water restarts back in July and for those gusty dayz arcs are hard to beat..........

theres an 16m Arc and 11m Rev2 for sale here on the forum...........depends on where you plan to go but both nice kites..................

erratic winds - 27-10-2010 at 10:50 AM

Thread from borntofli with great deals on slingshot REV's = http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=15518

Seanny - 27-10-2010 at 02:38 PM

Thanks for the links. :smilegrin:

Still recommending the 10m? Sounds good.

I know I'll need to buy more kites after this, I just need a kite with a good wind range to get me started.

Here are the "estimated" wind ranges for both LEIs I am looking at.

http://www.kingofwatersports.com/images/ozone-catalyst-wind....

http://www.powerkiteshop.com/liquid_force_envy.htm

EDIT: Personally, I think both kites are great and have a great range. Maybe I'm just being too picky, I dunno. I just want to make sure I'm getting what I need before I spend $1300+.

Leaning towards the 10m Envy.

You guys are very helpful! I appreciate it!

Cheers,
Sean

Seanny - 27-10-2010 at 04:12 PM

Quote:

Cabs are great choice for water BUT over time the land will beat it up quick! ARCS will tolerate land use better.

Thanks for the info!

I'm very gentle with my kites. I fly on soft grass or sand when I landboard as much as I can.

Also, I don't mind taking some extra time to set up an LEI. Especially if the kite has a single inflation point that fills the LE and struts all at the same time. Tell me what you think of the LF Envy?

I hear Twinskins gobble up gusts. Is this true? Also, how easy/hard is it to get upwind on water with a Twinskin?

Cheers,
Sean

Bladerunner - 27-10-2010 at 04:34 PM

The newer Arcs are great upwind. Arcs can take damage and still get you through a session with a bit of sail tape.

Even though I can't speak directly to SLE I think the 10 is a good idea. Especially if land is your main local. You can generate power buy flying / turning the kite fast. After 10m spanking the kite around for extra power gets harder. With an arc, line extensions help to make up the difference even more. Not sure if changing line length works the same with SLE but expect so?

If I had $1300 to spend on a kite I would by a 10 + 15m Synergy used. But that is JUST ME !

Kamikuza - 27-10-2010 at 05:35 PM

Not compared to a Speed, BR :lol:

the Synergy went upwind ok yesterday but I wouldn't call it great - about the same as the 'bow but it needed way more speed in the board.

I personally would avoid the Naish Sigma kites unless you can get a demo ride and make sure you try the water relaunch - we got 3 or 4 locals with them and I've never seen them water relaunch - they end up drifting into the shore or getting someone to help. I even seen one doing the Herc Autozenith for like 10 minutes :lol:

$1,300 will get you 2010 or 2011 kites ... U2u sent BTW

Kamikuza - 27-10-2010 at 05:41 PM

PS. had my 19m Syn out yesterday in (IMO) 20 to 30 knots ... felt good :D

Seanny - 30-10-2010 at 11:10 AM

I think I'll go with the 10m LF Envy.

Thanks for the help everyone!