I am wondering how a depower kite can pull you when harnessed in and still be depowerablle, I understand the mechanics of de-power but fail to
understand how the kite can pull through a harness hands free w/o simplly pulling the bar our to depower state.. ?? or do you have to have hands on
the bar to keep it pulled in ( powered up ) ?? Thanks for entertaining my curiosity much appreciation Kamikuza - 28-10-2010 at 11:51 PM
You're right, it doesn't - let go the bar and the kite will max depower ... unless you have a stopper ball that you can slide down the depower line to
stop the bar travelling out DHKITE - 28-10-2010 at 11:57 PM
Having no experience with it I wonder if there would be abenafit from being able to Set the power ?
Thanks for the reply, It helps me figure how to strap the hydra on
So, to clarify then When You have the bar powered up you ARE holding the power and not transmitting through the harness ?
and I imagine then that you set power where it pulls and set up your harness to accomodate. ?
I will be taking some lessons, but for now am just killing time and gaining info ( suffered a brocken ankle recentlly)
Thank you so much for your reply.. I love this sport and have only seen the tip of the iceberg.zero gee - 29-10-2010 at 12:19 AM
Most of the load is taken by the harness at all times. By pulling in the bar you are just "applying the gas" so to speak. The depowers now a designed
for lighter bar pressure so your arms don't get tired and you can stay out forever.
You push /pull the bar to adjust for the gusts and lulls. But, there is also a trimstrap on the bar that you use to trim the power in the kite for the
conditions as the wind increases or decreases. Power is controlled on the fly, there is no need to land and adjust knots /straps /line lengths.Kamikuza - 29-10-2010 at 01:02 AM
Depower works by altering the Angle of Attack of the kite to the wind. You're always attached to the front (center) lines and you steer and control
the AoA with the bar. Use the bar to quickly alter the trim of the kite ...
Get onto YouTube and do a search for Progression or Fat Sands quick tips ...carltb - 29-10-2010 at 01:47 AM
over analysing is not alway to your benefit. i mean you dont have to know how a car works to press gas clutch and brake! id suggest that the lessons
on the kite are more important then knowing how it works. being injured is a #@%$#! but over thinking something could lead to future comfusion.rocfighter - 29-10-2010 at 04:47 AM
Carl is right. I know how the whole system works and why it works. But when I got hooked into a depower I was overwhelmed by the size and power. You
need to put away the slide rule and have someone that can walk you through the proccess do just that. Theory is no substitute for experiance.acampbell - 29-10-2010 at 05:23 AM
Remember there is no such thing as a 100% depowered kite unless it is folded, packed and locked in the back of your car. For a thorough discussion,
it is worth bringing up this old favorite.... (but not with kids around)...
I agree, don't over think it. Yes, when I am in motion and cruising i usually have one hand on the bar and the trim puled in to about the middle. Like
folks have pointed out you can let the bar all the way out and it won't be completely depowered so you can ride hands free for short periods. My
Navigator bar has an adjustable stopper. With it I can ride hands free slightly powered for prolonged periods. It all comes sort of natural after a
bit of time.cheezycheese - 29-10-2010 at 07:31 AM
DH you can get your Hydra modded by Powerzone to achieve what you want. In fact I believe he has Hydras for sale that are already Modded for depower.revpaul - 29-10-2010 at 10:17 AM
to compare a depower kite to a car-i think of the trimming system as the transmission and the bar as the gas pedal.
iirc it is the trimmer that sets AoA and bar affects draft point/foil profile.awindofchange - 29-10-2010 at 10:57 AM
The stock production Hydra is not a depowerable kite. It does come on a bar which can be somewhat confusing to people just getting into the sport.
Not all bar kites are depowerable. The kite must be specifically designed for depower in order for it to be a depowerable kite.
The Hydra is a fixed bridle kite that is flown on a control bar. You can not depower it like normal depowerable kites except for the (wrongly labled)
100% depower feature which is letting go of the bar totally and having it pull the brake lines in and collapse the kite. This is more of a safety
feature and not really a depower system. (I do agree with Angus that there is no such thing as a 100% depowerable kite).
Most depowerable kites have a complex bridle system or pivoting system that allows the physical shape and curvature of the kite to be altered during
flight. By altering the shape of the foil, you can increase or decrease its efficiency. Fixed bridle kites have bridle system that is pre-set so
that the shape of the wing can not be altered. These kites are pre-set for maximum efficiency at all times and it can not be changed, therefore
producing much more power per size than a depowerable kite system.
Although the Hydra is a great tool for learning the basics of flight, and you can use it in the water to learn body dragging and relaunching
techniques, it is not the same as flying a true depowerable kite and you will still need to learn how to operate the depower systems. The Hydra will
make learning the full blown surf kites much easier and quicker because you will already know how to fly and you will have a much better idea on how
to manage the kite and yourself while in the water.
-----------
The normal operation of a depowerable kite is that you are hooked into the main power of the kite through the center line and into your harness. The
center line runs from the middle of the control bar up to the leading edge (front or top) of the kite. The control lines (outside lines, brake lines,
trailing edge lines) are used for your steering and for your depower control. By sliding the bar away from you on the center line, it will drop the
trailing edge of the kite away from the wind, flattening the sail and effectively creating less power output from the kite. By sliding the bar
towards you, you begin to cup the kite in the air which will increase the overall power and efficiency of the kite. The power of the kite will still
be directed through the center line which is attached to your harness. This setup is completely backwards from the way your Hydra is connected. The
trim strap or power adjuster will set the overall angle of attack of the wing. By letting the center line out or extending the power adjuster to its
maximum length, you will power the kite up because the kite will be sitting flatter in the wind window, thus increasing the amount that the bar will
power/depower the kite. By shortening the power adjuster to its shortest length, you pull the leading edge forward into maximum depower mode and the
control bar is now very limited on the amount it can power the kite up but depower is maximized.
The Hydra does not have any of these types of adjustments, you either fly it fully powered or dump the bar and collapse the kite. There is no
in-between.
Hope that helps clear things up for you.markite - 29-10-2010 at 01:45 PM
I like Kent's replies - always well composed and very informative.
When people walk up ask me about kites we are flying I usually equate it to sticking your hand out the window in the car.
- bar out = hand horizontal
- pull in bar = turning your hand to the wind
you feel more pressure and your hand starts to lift in the wind. The more you turn your hand flatter to the wind, the more pressure you feel. It also
demonstrates that the faster you drive the more you feel the effect. If the car isn't moving and you turn your hand you don't feel anything, same with
a kite. With light wind or the kite parked, pulling in the bar doesn't really give more power, you are applying brake/drag and actually killing the
speed. Most common mistake in light wind flying is seeing people pulling in the bar all the time thinking it gives more power but it stalls the kite.
Instead, let the kite fly as fast as possible and only pull in the bar just to get that burst of extra "umph" when needed for a jump or whatever - but
get the bar out quickly to keep the speed up.DHKITE - 29-10-2010 at 02:22 PM
Sweet, thanks for all the replys, they have been very helpfull.. i suppose I was thinking of the de-power lines to be more like the brake line on my
hydra, as I had practiced high wind takeoffs one after noon and discovered that by gripping the bar in the middle and using just a little brake I was
better able to manage a take off from the side of the window ( winds wer nuking that day ) without having the kite whipping to zeinith and through the
power zone. Also discovered that in Low wind this kite was actually easier to Reverse launch as the cupped profile with some brake on made it easier
to initially inflate the wing....
Am looking into De-power kites to Buy one in the new year, looking at The scouts and the neo's. Would love a surf and Snow kite, but perhaps it would
be better to shop for a snow specific kite this year as I believe the hq scouts come fully equipped with bar and all and are also more of a beginner
kite.
Opinions on a good beginner kite ?? :wee:indigo_wolf - 29-10-2010 at 02:33 PM
Just for the sake of clarification....
The Scout (II) is a fixed-bridled, open-cell foil on a crossover (not depower) bar.
The Neo (II) is a closed cell depower foil.
Comparisons would be apples and grapes.
ATB,
SamDHKITE - 29-10-2010 at 02:38 PM
hmm , didnt realize that... I suppose I am questioning weather or not the neo would be too much to work with as a beginner, I like that it can be used
on water and am Definatelly looking for a de-power kite for the next kite.Houston AirHead - 29-10-2010 at 02:43 PM
never use your stopper ball to "park and ride". asking for troubleDHKITE - 29-10-2010 at 03:00 PM
sweet video but it was a warren miller ski video, i think you inteneded a different link.
No worrys though, I got mad respect for the kites. Have only been using the hydra 3.5 M so far for 2-3- months but Broke my ankle a few weeks ago and
learned that even a 3.5 M can loft you pretty good given the right circumstances.erratic winds - 29-10-2010 at 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by DHKITE
sweet video but it was a warren miller ski video, i think you inteneded a different link.
Eh? When I click it, it's the "downfall redubbed" but now hitler is mad about not having a 100% depower kite....awindofchange - 29-10-2010 at 10:07 PM
Yes, the Scout is a fixed bridle kite similar to your Hydra but open cell and designed slightly different for more lift and performance.
For depower on snow, the two best kites out is the HQ Montana and the Ozone Frenzy. Both are excellent kites and are full depowerable kites. There
is also the HQ Apex and the Ozone Access. These are considered backcountry snow kites with slightly less overall performance but rock steady and
predictable. These two models are also depowerable.
For depowerable crossover kites (designed for both water and land) the Neo that you mentioned is a great choice. Another would be the Peter Lynn
Chargers.
Hope that helps.DHKITE - 30-10-2010 at 04:40 PM
It does help, Thaks
I guess I may be better suited to a more Stable and predictable Kite Over greater performance As I still have much learning to Do.. I have Definatelly
Learned that Static Jumps are best Done By Others, lol, Ill Stick to jumping My Dh bike, Next jumps By kite will be done on Water, or Snow.... Moving
With the Wind Anyways.
Where I Am is mountanous and as Such Winds can be somewhat Turbulent and are often at least Somewhat Gusty. What Would Be the best option for kites In
this case ?? I have heard certain brands Referred to As Gust Eaters, But Suppose that any De-power kite would be Better for controlling overall Power
in Changing conditions..
I am stoked To get back to Kiteing, Went out Today In 10 kmh Winds ( with cast and busted ankle ) and Sat and Flew Static.... But Occasional gusts Put
Fear into Me, and I packed up when trees began to Sway in Gusts. Felt good to face the deamon though
