Power Kite Forum

The reality of popped tubes...

Seanny - 23-11-2010 at 05:56 PM

How often to people REALLY pop their LE tube? Is it as big of a threat as people make it out to be? I primarily kite on land... would a few kite vs. ground encounters (not nose first, terminal velocity impacts 9/10 times) wear down or even pop even the most durable kites? I've never flown a tube kite for land use. The LF Envy and Wainman Hawaii Boss look bombproof, but given the amount of hype about popped tubes and the fact that they're inflatos, I'm skeptical about whether or not they'd be practical. I don't crash kites a lot... but I'm no pro, and I do make mistakes. Anybody have any personal experiences they could share with me? Thanks.

Cheers,
Seanny

Kamikuza - 23-11-2010 at 06:04 PM

Pop? I've seen 2, both Best kites. Leak? Many. Most have involved contact with the ground. All tubes will leak, sooner or later.

Seanny - 23-11-2010 at 06:07 PM

I'm in the process of buying an ARC or two for this purpose, but I do kind of like inflatos... thanks for the info, Kami. I'm not big on sitting around fixing my kites, or paying someone else to fix it for me. Durable kites score big with me...

Cheers,
Seanny

Kamikuza - 23-11-2010 at 06:21 PM

Pah, I'd just hand them over to Mr Miyachi and say "Fix them. Then give me the bill."
LEIs have their pro's too ...

Seanny - 23-11-2010 at 06:26 PM

You should sent Mr. Miyachi to Texas. There isn't a person for about 50 miles who would know how to fix a power kite. I know it depends on the kite, but some people make it seem like you have to treat an LEI like an egg shell. While I do always do my best to take care of my kites, I don't think this is exactly true. How much of a beating would a more rugged LEI have to take before you risk damage or popping it...?

Cheers,
Seanny

Kamikuza - 23-11-2010 at 06:41 PM

Depends. I dropped one into a bush and put a hole in it. I've seen people slam them into trees with no issues. I've seen people baby their kite and been unable to find leaks. This is why I'll never pay RRP for a water kite :D used or super-good deals are the way to go!

Seanny - 23-11-2010 at 06:45 PM

Used is the way to go! :thumbup::thumbup: I get all my stuff pre-owned. Except for a kite I got for my birthday... :rolleyes:

I should finish spending my money and recover from bankruptcy before I even THINK of buying an LEI. But eh. I can't help it, you know? :D

Cheers,
Seanny

PHREERIDER - 23-11-2010 at 09:17 PM

biggest problem with tubes hands down ...valve adhesion failure!

if you are rough with a tube it will eventually rupture, tear, or pop a bladder.

could be 2 sessions could be 200. but a good estimate is 300 hours when fresh, ANYTIME on used.

...didn't we talk about this last week already?

Seanny - 23-11-2010 at 10:00 PM

LEIs sound like a pain. The ones I've ridden weren't mine. I'm happy with just borrowing them. Maybe if I had more free time to keep them in check. Will have ARC money next Tuesday... thanks for the info guys. And no, I don't really recall having this conversation. Was I involved in it? :o

Cheers,
Seanny

BeamerBob - 23-11-2010 at 10:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PHREERIDER
biggest problem with tubes hands down ...valve adhesion failure!

if you are rough with a tube it will eventually rupture, tear, or pop a bladder.

could 2 sessions could be two 200. but a good estimate is 300 hours when fresh, ANYTIME on used.

...didn't we talk about this last week already?


Recent enough that I knew what you were going to say this time. You aren't losing it Phree!

EDIT: it was buried in the Sullivans Island thread.
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=10062&p...

Houston AirHead - 23-11-2010 at 10:36 PM

ive lost count how many times ive slammed my lf 12m havoc into the ground landboarding. Ive only ever had a valve leak once.

PHREERIDER - 24-11-2010 at 06:17 AM

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=15557

mentally crossed referenced.

rattled alot tubes into the ground without a problem as well.

never really "crashed" and "popped" one, always the valve thing. i have seen a NE rage session eat one in the waves. completely opened the LE and rip canopy. but hey you play 30knts SOMETHING is GONNA break.

PHREERIDER - 24-11-2010 at 06:41 AM

for me... the tubes failed from things i could not control( maybe heat and storage factor) , and ARCS fail (crash with catastrophic rupture) on input error.

back to why i thought we had been on the topic ....input WILL destroy a tube as well.

human element consistency. expect no less

Seanny - 24-11-2010 at 08:28 AM

Thanks, Phree. A good face plant with any kite could be the one that does it. I don't bring down my kites like that very often, but you still have to take it into account. I didn't even think about storage affecting valves, etc. Different people will have different experiences with them... I'd probably be the one to land it just right on my third session and have a rupture or a leak somewhere. I think I'll avoid them for now. Sorry for posting a repetitive thread.

Cheers,
Seanny

Albatross Mark - 24-11-2010 at 09:36 AM

In tropics heat and cats and thorns and sand . And then you put a new bladder in and dont seat it properly can pop just filling.Thats what drove me to PL's and now FS.

tridude - 24-11-2010 at 01:03 PM

agree pilot input error can/will tear any kite up..........I slammed my Synergy at Folly 2 summers ago and blew two cell walls and the adjoining LE seam. Valve adhesion/leaks are prime candidates for LEI leaks but easily fixed..................If youre on a lake or riding alot of flat water, a Speed 2 cant be beat. Waves LEI/FS Pulse.....................unhooked freestyle---LEIs................gusty bumpy conditions......PL, LEI, Pulse with the nod going to the PL

erratic winds - 24-11-2010 at 02:03 PM

Easiest way to pop a tube is to not take care when packing the kite up. Can cause problems such as the aforementioned valve-leaks, or a crease in the bladder, causing a weak-point.

Even though us foil-fans may exaggerate the predilection of LEI's to pop, when I popped my 12m fuel and ended my *season* (One kite quiver at the time, I was new and poor), I threw in the towels on LEI's for many years. I'm just now coming back to them.

Seanny - 24-11-2010 at 03:34 PM

I live way inland in Texas. In the hill country; like 40 miles NW of Austin. There are plenty of lakes to ride within an hour of here, but definitely not an ocean. An LEI would be more useful when I have more money and more free time. I'm 17 years old and I have neither one of those. "1 kite quivers" are the way to go. And I wouldn't want my kite quiver to pop. :x Although I am very careful with all kites, it just seems like an LEI is a bit too fragile for my current circumstances. I still love the way they ride though.

My parents hate the kiting thing. They just don't get it. :lol: Especially my dad. He thinks all kites are the same and doesn't understand why I need more than one, and tells me I'm wasting my money. :flaming: 'T's annoying.

Cheers,
Seanny

Kamikuza - 24-11-2010 at 05:18 PM

erratic - what's your advice for packing up then?

1 kite quivers are a myth :lol:

Taper123 - 24-11-2010 at 06:28 PM

Valve adhesion issues on LEI's(and patching them) sold me on Arcs.

erratic winds - 25-11-2010 at 02:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kamikuza
erratic - what's your advice for packing up then?

1 kite quivers are a myth :lol:


Pack carefully. Don't crush any valves in a hurry to get back to the car. Do your best to get air out of bladders before rolling kite up. Leaving spars inflated because the kite is wet? Don't slack on getting the kite dried out and getting the spars deflated. Even a kite will mold if the conditions are right.


1 kite quivers are a myth but honestly I've had kiteATB days on nothing but the FSRookie2 6m for the past 4 months!

Kamikuza - 25-11-2010 at 02:23 AM

Problem with my 16m Xbow is the bastard small backpack ... needs to be well deflated and folded carefully and that's got me worried ...!

erratic winds - 25-11-2010 at 02:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kamikuza
Problem with my 16m Xbow is the bastard small backpack ... needs to be well deflated and folded carefully and that's got me worried ...!


Get a bigger bag?

tridude - 25-11-2010 at 06:06 AM

continue your nice folding on the beach.....................once complete set the folded kite inside your harness, close it up and go. Im assuming you use a waist harness? If you use a seat harnes same procedure using bungee or a strap...............get her home, clean, factory fold, into the bag

aircav1182 - 25-11-2010 at 07:00 AM

Forgive my newbness but what does LEI stand for?

tridude - 25-11-2010 at 07:15 AM

Leading
Edge
Inflatable

there are a few of us on here who own and fly them......can be frusturating when the out of nowhere leak occurs or rupture/pop. LEIs come in different shapes and pump systems. Most these dayz arew one pump single inflation points. There are a few that pump each strut seperatley then the leading edge. Bow/SLE/C and Delta are the different categories and each have there own specific use/strong points. Again. its all up to riders discretion. They are easy to fly especially after breaking in on 4 line foils, relaunch is almost guarenteed, and the depower/safety systems are amazing. Depower and turning speed/power in turns were prime factors in my changing over. If youre looking for raw power and low end a Flysurfer Speed 2 is impossible to beat.

sparkin_larkin - 25-11-2010 at 07:19 AM

I like using a mesh bag big enough to pack the kite very loosely so air can circulate.. a tight small pack over and over wears and streches the fibers. I keep them in the mesh bags.. do not use the kite bags. I try not to dry in the sun and I tuck them in bed every night while I read them their night time story. a happy kite makes for what? Happy kiting!

L

tridude - 25-11-2010 at 07:29 AM

no one could argue that you take very good care of your gear.............Im not bag user either.................. inside the harness is my normal routine.....get em home, leaf blower to remove sand, back in the harness...........................the U Turn orange stick valves and bladders are the way to go once you start to have leaking problems............lighter than the OEM parts but much more durable/dependable

aircav1182 - 25-11-2010 at 07:50 AM

Thanks for the informative explanation Tridude....I got it now. Very interesting kite.

Seanny - 25-11-2010 at 10:00 AM

Ohhhhhhh, I like the mesh bag idea :o

I often sit in a bubble bath with rose pedals on the water surface sipping expensive wine with my kites. Happy happy kites. :D

Cheers,
Seanny

aircav1182 - 25-11-2010 at 10:53 AM

What's up Seanny!? Leave those fancy baths alone and go fly you crazy Texan...lol

Seanny - 25-11-2010 at 12:50 PM

Mahahahahahahahahaha! :3

http://www.weather.com/weather/today/Liberty+Hill+TX+78642?p...

Cheers,
Seanny

aircav1182 - 25-11-2010 at 01:08 PM

Gusting to 32....Careful brother...rig small and work up...have fun!

Seanny - 25-11-2010 at 01:14 PM

I have a stunning lack of depowers, after my friend trashed my Access... it's either PL Twister II 4.1 or nothing! And I've had my a$$ kicked by that kite multiple times :P So much fun!

Cheers,
Seanny

Kamikuza - 25-11-2010 at 10:57 PM

But then it wouldn't be the nice Cabrinha bag :D actually, the 2011 13 is like 3x bigger than the 2010 16 bag :dunno:
I take the bag to the beach with me and just pack it up into the bag straight away. There's very little theft here; you'd be surprised what people leave lying around on the beach all day that doesn't get swiped!

Mesh bags, hmm? That'd have to be another DIY I bet :(

Seanny - 25-11-2010 at 11:52 PM

Kami you crazy Asian :D

Just go to a sporting goods store or something. I'm sure they have a million of them there. You can put all kinds of $%@# in a mesh bag... equipment, assorted balls of all types, infants, whatever. Not to mention kites... if for some reason you have trouble finding a store with a mesh bag, Google will become your very good friend.

Cheers,
Seanny

Kamikuza - 26-11-2010 at 12:53 AM

This is Japan, not the US or NZ - why would you want a nasty mesh bag when you can get a Gucci one? If you can Google a Japanese site and read the kanji for me, I'll be thrilled - ta! :P

Seanny - 26-11-2010 at 09:54 AM

I'm SURE there is a Japanese store SOMEWHERE that has mesh bags :lol:

http://www.swimoutlet.com/Swimming_Mesh_Bags_s/361.htm

If not, it's not going to kill your kite to pack them in their bags that they came with. I know you take very good care of your stuff. :thumbup:

Cheers,
Seanny

Kamikuza - 26-11-2010 at 05:54 PM

I've not ever seen anything like that ... might have to make one ... hmm hardware store has mesh for gardening - wonder if the wife will let me at her sewing machine :o

Seanny - 26-11-2010 at 07:01 PM

Bahahaha Kami you crack me up! :lol:

It's a mesh bag! These aren't Russian plans for world domination or something :P

Good idea, though. Have a go at making one yourself. I wouldn't know how to sew it, seeing as it's covered in little holes... maybe use a strip of solid cloth at all the seams to make a stronger hold?

Have fun!

Cheers,
Seanny

Kamikuza - 26-11-2010 at 09:05 PM

You gotta get out of Texas a bit and experience a non-Western country ;)

Seanny - 27-11-2010 at 09:51 AM

I've been to Asia. :) My dad travels there frequently for his job. He goes to Japan quite often; mostly Osaka. Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, China, and Hong Kong are the ones most visited. Also, my best friend's dad was the manager of the Hokkaido Nippon Ham Fighters less than two years ago. Are you familiar with Trey Hillman? He lives within walking distance of me, and both his kids go to school with me. :D

I'm not some kind of redneck :lol:

Cheers,
Seanny

Kamikuza - 27-11-2010 at 06:48 PM

Then go shopping here and find me some mesh bags, #@%$#!! :lol: It's a different world ... and everything I'm interested in seems to be a niche sport/hobby here ...
"I need some Dyneema"
"Oh just pop down to the hardware store or West Marine"
Nobody can believe there's no such thing or no sailing shop or local wind surf shop and if there IS, then they order all the stuff over the phone from the one big shop in like Osaka or something. :dunno: Think it's bad with sailing kit? Try getting bike parts ...!

Anyway, what is the topic of this thread again? :lol:

Seanny - 27-11-2010 at 09:23 PM

I feel your frustration, Kami. :) Imagine trying to find kite supplies/help in the middle of Texas. Let's just say, it's not the most popular sport here in the middle of nowhere.

Er, I believe the topic was about LEIs... but whatever, I don't care anymore. :D This forum is a great cure for boredom.

Cheers,
Seanny