Power Kite Forum

Bad day on Charger ends in torn kite!

frostbite - 26-12-2010 at 09:31 PM

Had a terribly frustrating day on my 10m charger on Friday. I had a decent session flying the charger static the week before and figure I can try brining my ATB and practice getting going on it. I was also scoping out a new field near coney island, which has a lot more room than the smaller location I was flying at before.
Wind was between 15mph and gusting up to 25mph, and looking at the flag at the field it was quite steady. For some reason the wind kept shifting direction at the ground level and I had a difficult time keeping the kite stationary while prefilling and setting up the lines. It would shift and pull out from underneath the weights and before I know it, it would invert and bow tie and make a giant mess of the lines. Finally after about 30 minutes of running back and forth, I had everything properly setup.
Pulling the front line got the kite up but after a few second it tacos and drops. Doing it again got kite back up but a side ward gust bow ties the kite and it goes down again. I spend the next 30 minutes repeating this process and had to pull safety since the kite was hopelessly tangled and I had to disconnect the lines to untangle them.
It was terribly frustrating but I was determined to get the kite up in the air, finally after setting the line up for the 3rd time and running back and forth like a crazy person the kite goes up. I flew it for a bit and let it stay auto zenith but it was still going back and forth between 2 and 10 o'clock since it was getting pretty gusty. It would slide down to 2 o'clock and open up and start drifting into the power zone and then it would power up and jerk me forward, during on of these another side way gust took the kite and bow tie it and it spin like a windmill and bounced off the ground. I pull safety to drop the kite to check to see if it was okay and right away I noticed that the bridles wrapped around the spar and torn a 12" long gash on the leading edge perpendicular to the kite. :mad:
Any how that was the end of a hugely frustrating day and I am just starting to try to figure out what I did wrong.
Seems like the biggest problem was the inconsistent wind direction, its what made the setup incredibly difficult and also what drop and ripped the kite in the end. I had also noticed that the charger has the tendencies to lose power (and the arc shape) at the edge of the wind window close to the ground and would start to drift back down wind. The hydra on the other hand would happilly sit sideway at the same spot without any problem.
Sorry for the long post but really wanted to vent and get some idea on what I am doing wrong..

stetson05 - 26-12-2010 at 09:40 PM

Very frustrating. I am not an experienced arc user so hopefully someone else will chime in. I sometimes have the same kinds of frustrations. Sometimes when this kind of stuff happens I start to wonder if I shouldn't fly that day. Live to kite another day type of thing. Either way major bummer. Biggest thing, learn from it and get some tape to fix it. be safe and try again.

shaggs2riches - 26-12-2010 at 11:05 PM

Bummer day man:no: horrible feeling leaving a session with damaged gear. I constantly deal with gusty, shifty conditions. At about 15mph the wind in my area really starts to behave poorly and I hate it, but it is what it is. I'm yet to fly a charger but both of my arcs give me setup grief when I'm setting up when the wind is shifty and gusty; same issues that you were getting. If it is throwing the kite around too much during setup, I will add some weight to the trailing edge in the middle and even on the downwind wing tip. Just enough to keep the entire kite from flipping around maybe a little along the downwind spar. Not too much that it will inhibit full prefill and launch. Arcs handle these conditions extremely well, but if you mostly get clean wind then I'd probably wait for those days.

I haven't found too many issues with the kite at the edge of the window, how did you have you trim set??? If you have it pulled too much you could have been stalling it at the edge of the window. Which is why it would fall back into the powerzone. Most I can say is that experience in those days will have you more and more prepared for what to expect and how to fly your kites in those conditions.

If you can afford it I would say to get the damage repair fixed professionally. Pwerzone can have you fixed up right and proper in no time and at a real decent price. There is also a ton of other people on this site and on the web that will be able to get you set up with a quaility repair that will leave your kite flying as if the rip never occured. Sail tape will haave you flying cheaper and faster if you are on a tight budget and don't want to wait two- three weeks for it to ship out get fixed and be back to your doorstep. The full repair on a newer kite just seems like a nicer option to me anyway. Either way sorry for your luck and hope it gets sorted better for you. The shifty conditions will get simpler as you go. I'm sure others will be able to help out more though. Good luck!!

geokite - 26-12-2010 at 11:23 PM

Been there. Keeping things in perspective (mind in the present, not where you want to be once the kite is flying) is the best advice for dealing with the frustration.

Lots of weights for the kite on the ground. Lots of back line pressure for once the kite peels off the ground (and peel is the right description). Once it is in the air, gotta keep your eyes on it. Arcs may be stable, but any kite will require 99% of your attention in those conditions. Only in a steady wind would I rely on the autozenith feature of the arc. Get the kite moving as much as possible; at kite with power is much more stable than a kite sitting overhead, waiting for the wind direction to change. Those conditions are not for relaxation. Hope that helps.

PHREERIDER - 27-12-2010 at 06:01 AM

your learning ,

condition's like that are not good to learn in.

thats how they act in gusty conditions you just have to be able to keep up with reaction.

less than 15mph would have been better. TIME will fix most of your problems.

BUT in about 35mph this joker rocks!

Feyd - 27-12-2010 at 06:51 AM

Unless you used an artificial inflation method it sounds to me that she was a little low on air. Not too low for smooth conditions but low enough that she would be prone to bowtie in punchy winds. The conditions you described are pretty much the norm here. Always gusty and changing direction so we rarely ever launch according to the PL instructions. The kite won't sit still long enough to inflate or launch especially on the ice.

And as stable as an Arc is we never rely on the AZ in shifty dirt winds.

But I'm psyched that you put in the time and effort to get her airborne. It's that kind of commitment (IMO) that makes for a strong kiter.

Geo's right. You gotta balance that backline pressure and offset the tendency to bowtie when launching if the wing doesn't have high internal pressure. Once you get it in the air work it to get more air in it but bre prepared for holes in the winds when it's gusty.

Phree's right,you 'll get it in time.

markite - 27-12-2010 at 07:04 AM

been there - were we go out in the winter on one lake there is a small bay where we set up and it can be the most turbulent place for any kite in gusty conditions. The hardest thing to realize when you are eager and don't get out that often is that some days are just bad days and will be very frustrating or it's a bad location to fly. Knowing that and accepting that is hard but if you decide to give it a go, the main thing after launching is to get moving asap. Don't stand around waiting for things to smooth out. Once you get out to an open area and just get a little more constant airflow over the kite it will behave and gusts will just icrease the power/speed and not collpase the kite.
On those really shifty days it really helps to have a friend to watch for a wintip wrap and assist the launch, but you might have that opportunity. On these days I run the lines straight back (perpendicular) to minimize the effects of a shifting kite wrapping the lines. Use the velcro line tabs. Get to the bar quickly after inflation and get to 45 degrees while keeping a little tension without pulling the line out of the tabs.
Watch the rear tension when launching and getting to the zenith to avoid over flying a soft kite and luffing - then when up, get going.
Watch for a wingtip wrap and ditch the power right away, you will cut the skin the fastest when this happens, don't try and shake it off.
You should be able to do a good tape job to keep yourself going until you have the time to have a proper repair. But that's only if it's just the skin. if you get damage into the dacron sleeve or webbing (internal braids) you need to get that repaired first.
anything is repairable depending on time and how you want it to look. Tape it, tape and sew, partial panel or applique section replacement etc. just a matter of time away from your kite
Better days ahead for you....

frostbite - 28-12-2010 at 08:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by markite
You should be able to do a good tape job to keep yourself going until you have the time to have a proper repair. But that's only if it's just the skin. if you get damage into the dacron sleeve or webbing (internal braids) you need to get that repaired first.
anything is repairable depending on time and how you want it to look. Tape it, tape and sew, partial panel or applique section replacement etc. just a matter of time away from your kite
Better days ahead for you....


The wing tip wrap was what torn the kite! I didn't recognize it right away and try to recover and I think that's what did it. When I land the kite I can see the line cutting right through the fabric on the leading edge. I can see the power adjusting strap underneath it but I did not see any damage to the strap it self.

I would like to get it sew up properly but since it just snowed in NYC, I am dying to take her out again with my snowboard on this time. If I apply tape would they still be able to remove it and sew it later? Really hate to wait another 2-3 weeks just to fly her again.

markite - 28-12-2010 at 04:14 PM

Yes a good ripstop repair with a wide coverage well beyond the tear to support the damged area should be good to keep you going - just really watch this area to see if it's holding and not having any hint of getting more damage - especially if you are throwing it around in high gusty wind. I've had friends even throw a good amount of duct tape on kites while on holidays to save their trips. Okay, the downside - you want a good quality tape to hold it and if you are careful you can remove it after for a proper repair. But you don't want to pull the tape and stretch or distort the fabric around the tear and when friends did use duct tape (especially in the heat) it left a lot of tape residue to try and clean off before doing a repair.

Can you post photos - does it run on an angle from corner into the nose area? The braid takes most of the tension but you want to see if that tear is also getting close to a rib - don't want to simply tape the outside for now and have a rib let go because the threads were cut and then you compound the problem.

Bladerunner - 28-12-2010 at 07:04 PM

It is not surprising that you find it more difficult to keep the arc steady at the edge . The hydra is a trainer so it makes that easier. I think it was a combo of the depower system + the bad + too low winds that made it tough. It is tough standing still and dropping it low but it will be a different game when moving!

Keep it up. We all have frustrating times. They get fewer and farther between ! :cool:

kiteNH - 29-12-2010 at 08:33 AM

I'm surprised that a snagged bridle line cut the leading edge. Its hard to picture that happening. Sounds like some bad luck.

You might want to consider some kind of blower to preinflate if the winds are shifty where you fly. I've used a Black and Decker leaf blower which fills the kite in under a minute and makes launching so much easier. Not necessary if you have nice clean winds down at the ground but you often don't have that, especially with the shifty inland winter winds.

Houston AirHead - 29-12-2010 at 09:35 AM

Make sure you clean the ripped area with rubbing alcohol first, let dry then sail tape. The cleaner and more precise the tape job, the stronger the repair will be. Good luck

frostbite - 29-12-2010 at 11:32 AM

Well, it was a little bit better than I remembered. Any how, here's the ugly details:





I torn between getting it done "right" and getting it done quick. Love to get some input on this.

cheezycheese - 29-12-2010 at 11:57 AM

It seems to be close to a stress point. I would fear further damage from improper repair. But I have no experience...

Houston AirHead - 29-12-2010 at 12:15 PM

that was my thought cheezy

geokite - 29-12-2010 at 12:41 PM

I'd recommend getting it done right over quickly. Very close to a stress point.

frostbite - 29-12-2010 at 01:16 PM

:sniff: oright, its back to flying the trainer for a few week then..

I think I'll give the guys at fixmykite.com a try, I can't seem to find any one local who can do the repair. Any one have any experiences using them?

PHREERIDER - 29-12-2010 at 01:18 PM

can it be accessed through the fill zip cell?

adhesive ripstop or dacron type sail tape ON both sides.

this LE area has to self from so the material needs to be (flex and fold like ripstop) soft.

too stiff and it won't allow LE to form proper ... the stress might be a little higher inthe area but not really in a loaded flight.

tape PLUS stitching without opening the cell is tedious, but it a small area. tear approximation and taped then stitched and it all fixed.

to get near pro out come the kite will have to be opened from the back if not accessible through zip cell.

last word... KITE IS STILL FRESH! def worth $60 repair