Power Kite Forum - Charger recovery tips needed: how to I flip the kite?

Charger recovery tips needed: how to I flip the kite?

frostbite - 30-1-2011 at 04:00 PM

I have been practice flying my 10m charger for the past few weekends. Finally got the hang of launching it and keeping it up in the air and I think I am also starting to figure out how to keep it trimed properly.
I am also starting to get the hang of relaunching as well, but there's one thing I just can't seem to figure out.
Occasionally the kite would flip, either from losing power at the edge of the window or from me pulling the safety. I can usually recover and relaunch without any problem, but some time the front and back line gets reversed, as in the two outside back line would be running through and over the triangle formed by the two front line
Not sure if this is clear. But I can't seem to figure out how to fix this with out landing the kite and reconnecting the lines. Is the solution flipping the kite?

Leojim - 30-1-2011 at 04:27 PM

Yes, you've got the right idea. Just take note of which way the brake lines are twisted around the front lines and flip the kite over 360 accordingly. Of course you will need to be at the kite, but at least you won't need to disconnect / reconnect the lines.
I have the 8m Charger and it's a fun kite to fly. Enjoy.

frostbite - 30-1-2011 at 07:43 PM

Are there any special technique for flipping the kite without going to the kite and flipping it by hand?

Also, this is more of a basic question. When I unhook and going to the kite, do I stake the chicken loop or do I stake the 5th line??

Leojim - 30-1-2011 at 09:50 PM

Frosty...I don't know how you could possibly flip the kite back over without doing by hand. I'm assuming it got that way by tucking at the edge of the wind window. Kind of have to reverse the process and I don't see how that could be done while flying it. Maybe someone else would have some ideas.
As for staking it, I don't have a 5th line (PL navigator bar). From what I understand the 5th line is a safety that would just make the kite flag out - no power. Safe but not very conveniant.
I stake out the brake lines. That way once you get it straightened out it won't want to fly. If you stake it out on the chicken loop it could launch and likely pull the stake out.

Kamikuza - 30-1-2011 at 09:54 PM

You've flipped it so the all-white "lower" skin is actually facing the sky?
You should be able to land the kite leading edge down (carefully!!!) pull in the center lines ... that should flip it back the right way. You might have to pull in, hand over hand and/or walk towards the kite, but it is doable.

zero gee - 30-1-2011 at 09:59 PM

If I am understanding the scenario correctly...

I think if the kite has flipped over from the leading edge through the lines so that you have your front and rear line pairs twisted it is probably quicker and easier to go over to the kite to sort it out. Staking the leashed safety line should keep the kite flagged.

If the kite has flipped over from the trailing edge and through the lines... and it is flying inverted (your steering will be reversed), land it LE down and walk toward it it will flip back over and fly up with the lines untwisted. If it has flipped right over, then you will have to do this twice. Once will invert it, the second time will correct it and remove the twists. Get ready (depower, lean back, fly to the edge, what ever is needed) for the pull as it will want to fly through the power.

Doing this if it flipped the first (LE) way around will just add more twists.

frostbite - 31-1-2011 at 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kamikuza
You've flipped it so the all-white "lower" skin is actually facing the sky?
You should be able to land the kite leading edge down (carefully!!!) pull in the center lines ... that should flip it back the right way. You might have to pull in, hand over hand and/or walk towards the kite, but it is doable.

No, the kite is normal with the white side facing me. also the bar is not reverse. Just the that rear, or trailing line is twisted with the front line.

So I imagine if the kite were to do two back flips it'll be back to normal? I don't really mind doing it by hand but since this has happen quite a few time I am thinking that I'll need to learn to recover from it in case if i am in deep powder or even on water?

So I can try this method except I'll have to flip it, fly the kite up and land it leading edge down again and then flip it again?

Also, whats the proper way to stake the brake line, pulling them both towards the center of the bar untill they cross and stake through the cross or do I just stake one through the self landing handle on one side?

PHREERIDER - 31-1-2011 at 09:02 AM

why it keeps happening should be explored.

out running the kite? esp. when the kite is luffing at the edge of the window when you not moving.

using the stopper ball to keep the bar in which will keep it further back in the window. this will have more continuous power.

maybe TOO much throw in the main. moving the stopper in ball should reduce the near edge inverts. if you drift into the kite while keeping it at the edge any luff will cause it to "go slack" and thats the origin of most inverts( that don't involve super hot down wind landings without hard redirects)

acampbell - 31-1-2011 at 09:07 AM

Sometimes when an ARC is inside out, you can get lucky and land the kite downwind, walk to it and let it roll -over right-side out and re-launch.

markite - 31-1-2011 at 09:53 AM

If the kite is a little soft or even happens when fully inflated in some really gusty conditions and the leading edge dishes inward and drops down below the leading edge it will then pop open inverted. At this point the leading edge is pointed downward and you are seeing the top skin facing you. The kite will either land nose down or you might be able turn the kite and fly it in this inverted position. This inversion is easiest to correct. As mentioned - fly it to the edge and land nose down (if not already nose down) and quickly move forward and the kite will lay out flat on it's belly. The trailing edge that was sticking up in the air will fall backward and kite is flat. The air will now get under the kite and it will relaunch in the proper orientation.

If the kite inverts the other way, it usually happens following a bow tie or some flips that happen in ground handling. That inversion you can fix with bars prior to the nav bar by having the kite on the ground, unhooking and turning the bar sideways and passing it down through the centre lines and then twisting the bar to make sure all lines are oriented correctly. With the Navigator bar that line split is too far way to reach and if the kite is landed inverted but cupping the wind there is now way you can pull in to the line split, you'll need to flag it to re-set the lines.

The double roll you are talking about depends on which way the inversion happens whether it will come out or add to it by using the land and roll method.

One of Chris's videos shows a good small clip of how he has the kite sitting on the ice taco position with lines in a carabiner to keep it de-powered. He then unclips the lines and pops the kite open to launch. This is a good method to use if you are out in the middle somewhere without snow or a weight to anchor the kite - let me see if I can find it or if Chris happens to know which one it was.

geokite - 31-1-2011 at 03:20 PM

Ahh, I knew there was a reason to not get a navigator bar. So easy to undo these twists at the bar end, with the kite flying (being careful of course).

Kamikuza - 31-1-2011 at 06:39 PM

The Y-split seems to make it less likely to invert ... I've only had one flying static, none while moving including my lame-ass jumps and splash-downs ...

Double invert - nicely done! :lol:

frostbite - 31-1-2011 at 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by markite
If the kite inverts the other way, it usually happens following a bow tie or some flips that happen in ground handling. That inversion you can fix with bars prior to the nav bar by having the kite on the ground, unhooking and turning the bar sideways and passing it down through the centre lines and then twisting the bar to make sure all lines are oriented correctly. With the Navigator bar that line split is too far way to reach and if the kite is landed inverted but cupping the wind there is now way you can pull in to the line split, you'll need to flag it to re-set the lines.

This is what it is, I was distinctly thinking "if only if I reach the Y split and throw the bar through it". I even try landing it and doing it on the ground, but that does work either since as I walk up the line with the bar, the kite drift further back and the lines just gets hopelessly tangled.

The last few times this happen, it was because of me pulling the safety. The kite would flag out and spin twice before I get it on the ground. As a matter of fact, every time I pulled the safety I seem to need to reset the line. I'll have to remember not to pull the safety if I am in the water and miles from land.. :wee:

kitesurfer - 1-2-2011 at 01:16 PM

FLY IT! it won't hurt a thing with the front and back twisted once...if it inverted twice and lines twisted up twice, i'd bring it in and pack it up. not a good charger day for you. take a venom back out and have fun.

macboy - 1-2-2011 at 03:42 PM

Check 1:26. And again at 2:40 - better illustration......hardly enough wind to relaunch - hence the overfly to begin with.

Once landed I pulled in as much centre line as I could, and moved towards the kite as quick as I could so the wind could push the back down, lift the front up and off I went.

That was a great (bad) day......*sigh* I LOVE this sport.

Bladerunner - 1-2-2011 at 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kitesurfer
FLY IT! it won't hurt a thing with the front and back twisted once...if it inverted twice and lines twisted up twice, i'd bring it in and pack it up. not a good charger day for you. take a venom back out and have fun.

This is what I was going to say. One flip and you can still fly it without much issue until you are ready to take a break.

Dropping it and moving toward it works but if you roll it wrong you now have 2 twists and are done. I would avoid this roll over method ( but don't ) due to the high chance of cutting your canopy with your lines.

I agree, one of the 1st things I missed about moving to the Navi' was that toss through option.

Kamikuza - 1-2-2011 at 05:10 PM

Hey come on guys - if I can bow-tie the unbow-tieable Synergy and not double loop it, then y'all must be doing something HORRENDOUSLY wrong :lol:

macboy - 1-2-2011 at 09:44 PM

How far up the lines is the "Y" on the navigator bars?

Kamikuza - 1-2-2011 at 10:01 PM

Far enough to flag the kite out ... say 15m? :lol:

I have no idea really don't listen to me :D

dylanj423 - 2-2-2011 at 07:41 AM

i think that one major issue here might be windspeed.... if the kite is inverting at the edge of the window, its prob due to winds too light for the kite...with enough wind, you shouldnt have to work to keep that kite in the sky, that is where it wants to be...

when you pull the safety and the bar flies towards the kite, it is natural for the bar and lines to get a little wrapped up... but for a kite to just fall at the edge of the window usually means too little wind

what kind of winds are you flying it in?

PHREERIDER - 2-2-2011 at 07:47 AM

Quote:

FLY IT!

no your gear! inside and out

DSC_0087.JPG - 18kB

frostbite - 2-2-2011 at 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PHREERIDER

Quote:

FLY IT!

no your gear! inside and out

it makes me nervous to see the line rub. also because the twist, It essentially shorten the rear line and make the kite flys differently.

PHREERIDER - 3-2-2011 at 07:53 AM

on the water, recover, fly it in, then fix it.

the friction gets me going too , on land just drop and roll it out

JohnCostillo - 6-5-2011 at 10:27 PM

That would be a brilliant idea. Just make sure to check the brake lines are twisted, that is very vital. If you get the hang of the whole process, I am sure you can get ready for the next level.