Power Kite Forum

self-launch using a stake - problems?

airwombat - 9-2-2011 at 11:48 AM

I've been reading posts and watching some videos of self launching/landing.

For the site I launch at (shruby, not very flat, and not many people/kiters around) I think the method of self-launching by attaching the chicken loop to something solid (stake, vehicle etc), sitting the kite up on it's edge, and then going back to hook in, looks pretty ideal and straight forward (but one of these vids is trying to sell you a karabiner on a strap, so they would make it look easy!). Anyone who doesn't know what i'm talking about - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-eMu6hvwfs

What worries me is that the kites always look a bit twitchy in the videos as they sit there, bouncing in the wind. Is this a slightly hazardous period, or is it fine, given that they are depowered. what about a sudden gust of wind?

I'll be trying it with a mate on hand the first few times, but in the meantime i'd appreciate advice from anyone who uses this technique, and any pointers to look for when launching/landing this way.

Cheers,

Dan

airwombat - 9-2-2011 at 11:49 AM

And if it makes any difference, I fly a 12m Switchblade (2010)

ragden - 9-2-2011 at 11:52 AM

Is this an LEI, a foil, or an arc that you are flying?
There is some risk in just staking the chicken loop and setting up the kite. Depending on what kite it is, you may want to loop the brake lines around that chicken loop as well. Better advise can be given once we know what kite you are talking about.
:)

ragden - 9-2-2011 at 11:52 AM

Ah.. that does change things...
Do you leave the lines attached, or do you attach them every time during setup?

edit: I cant see the video from work, sorry...

PHREERIDER - 9-2-2011 at 01:05 PM

there are much better ways. the stake is clumpsy and the potential for gear damage, someone being hurt or you being hurt, during "no one is controlling the kite" moment.

things break, stakes come out, then what? what happens to the folks hangin' on the beach downwind , as the launch kite tumbles into their 2 years arms, lines and all AND THEN THE GUST HITS. i don't want to be you on that day. nor the 2 year old.

YOU need to control YOUR gear. thats what leashes are for my friend. this sport has high responsibility to the public at large even if they are all wankers.

heres a tube kite launch and land and yes the switch blade will do the same exact thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCD4a_3qgf8

safety counts everytime!

ragden - 9-2-2011 at 01:12 PM

Again... I cant watch the videos while at work, so I dont know what Phree just posted. I will say that there are probably three different ways to consider getting your kite into the air.

The first, and probably the safest, is to get an assisted launch. Have someone hold your kite and take care of you.

Second would be a drift launch. This will not work if there is seaweed, or other obstacles closer to the surface of the water as your lines will get tangled... Or if the water gets deep quick.

Third would be the trick where you park the kite up wind of you, run the lines, then walk around the kite and drag it around. Interesting trick, and doesnt always work. But i've seen people do it before. Bear in mind that doing this requires quite a bit of room, and a good working safety system that you are READY to use as things can go bad...

acampbell - 9-2-2011 at 01:24 PM

Our local instructor (and other locals) launches that way from a (screw-in) stake, strap and 'beener all the time. The load on the stake is from the side of course and is not great, but he is careful to really bury that stake and mark it so no one-trips on it.

Or they use a big piece of driftwood washed up (heavy telephone-pole sized).

Works for most modern bows/ hybrids, but not C's.

Hovers 2-3 feet above the sand with and occasional bounce off the tip, but it's a quick jog back to the bar.

Same with landing solo but in reverse.

That little kit is nice but a quick trip to Home Depot will take care of all that you need.

rtz - 9-2-2011 at 01:29 PM

This video is pretty good too:

Houston AirHead - 9-2-2011 at 01:40 PM

i love using a wind shadow , thats why i bring my semi to the beach...LOL

PHREERIDER - 9-2-2011 at 01:49 PM

to catch ragden up , video is option #3 solo side , LE down. non sanded tip. and a tiny drag if any. launch and land

the sanded tip versions work(that would be a 4th option) but i think it really stresses the folded tip LE. it does work well with c-kites on basic four line set up.

a good assist is the best.

the drift launch is a good go, the float out is always a tense moment


wind window knowledge and kite behavior is paramount for all to go smooth

most errors occur from kite placement at the start. ..too deep in the window yields a blasting hot launch in the blink of an eye.
too flat at the edge then too much dragging , needs to be slightly twisted where the tip opens up a tiny bit so it becomes the fulcrum point for the launch.

airwombat - 10-2-2011 at 05:46 AM

Thanks for the advice and feedback. Like Ragden, I'm now at work so will have to check out the videos later and have a think. Maybe a drift launch is the way forward for the site I use.

For the record, I was planning on using on using the tow ring (with a long climbing sling) on the front of my landrover as a fastening point - if it can pull a 2 tonne vehicle out of a hole, it can hold a kite sitting on the edge of the wind window. and if there was a 2yr child in the vicinity that I could throttle with my kite, I'd much rather ask a parent (or anyone in the area) for help, but my point is, there isn't.

I accept that breakages happen, but if anything is going to break, surely it's more likely to be when the kite goes up and there is a greater strain on the system - by which time you have removed the stake/vehicle from the equation and are in control?

Having said that, I accept what Phreerider says about having a duty of care, and that not having anyone controlling the kite at certain points is dangerous - which is why i'm here asking for advice about it and not out learning the hard way.

mgatc - 10-2-2011 at 06:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by acampbell
Our local instructor (and other locals) launches that way from a (screw-in) stake, strap and 'beener all the time.


I think this link will take you to the device that Angus is referring to. I know the guy that makes/markets these and I see him use it all the time to safely launch and land. He flys Cabrinha kites exclusively.

Safety first. Ensure that whatever you use is compatible with your equipment, environment, and situation.

Link: http://kiteanchor.com/

Kamikuza - 10-2-2011 at 07:05 AM

One of our locations doesn't have the real estate for a regular self launch like Phree showed, so if nobody will assist we use a concrete drain erm thing and attach to that. At the lake beach, we have bags in the sand with loops on - by far the best method IMO cos there's no pointy bits ;)

Staked or secured - landing is the worry IMO cos you gotta rely on the kite sitting there on its own as opposed to the launch where you've set it up, but after securing the bag and sprinting to the kite, they remain stable long enough to do that ... usually :)

Stakes in general though - no thanks. There's some #@%$#! from out of town who turns up occasionally with a bloody stake and leaves it lying around at the edge of the sand, where the grass starts - and people land kites or walk through.

Phree's launch is 100% for me ...

acampbell - 10-2-2011 at 08:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mgatc

I think this link will take you to the device that Angus is referring to. I know the guy that makes/markets these and I see him use it all the time to safely launch and land. He flys Cabrinha kites exclusively.

Safety first. Ensure that whatever you use is compatible with your equipment, environment, and situation.

Link: http://kiteanchor.com/


No, Robb's screw-in stake is plastic and smaller like a robust cork-screw but holds well with side-loads, and he really buries it. What that is in your link is essentially a mobile-home tie-down anchor with a kite label on it. I have seen Steve Pigeon in Clearwater FL use one to anchor his big 20' Delta. Works really well and is incredibly secure.

mgatc - 10-2-2011 at 11:50 AM

Hi Angus!,

Yea, this thing is pretty solidly constructed. There is a minimum line that you must screw the stake down to ensure reliability. It goes in fast even in hard packed sand. Hey, if its good enough to hold down a trailer in a tornado...

I know the Cabrinhas' sit docily and completely de-powered at the edge of the window awaiting launch. Landing requires taking the kite to the edge, then kneeling down to clip the keeper line to the CL before unhooking.

I knew Scott was at St Simons last summer and and kited some with Rob. Thought he might have sold a few while he was there.

borntofli - 10-2-2011 at 02:33 PM

When launching and landing alone w/ a stake make sure you depower your kite....so it cant fly if it wanted to...

I forgot once and saw the result... Zoom up goes the kite and down goes the kite on the other side of the window.... smack ! !.....Lesson learned.....

It's a good anchor test.....

acampbell - 10-2-2011 at 03:44 PM

Borntofli: Now that really paints a picture! ouch

Mel: Yeah I thought that was Skot Scott. Clever adaptation and a nice little site; thanks

manitoulinkiter1 - 16-2-2011 at 05:22 PM

Hey

I have a Cabrihna and do like you were planning off your truck.
I use a carabiner and my trailer hitch.
I also land like that but as mentioned the kite will bounce around a little more than when you set it up to launch.
One word of caution is that at the top of the wind range the kite will occasionally lift off. I've never had anything happen but it will go up 10 - 15 feet and then come back down. Like I said this happens in higher winds.


John

airwombat - 17-2-2011 at 02:09 PM

If landing in stronger winds is less controlled that the take-off , what's to stop you from landing, staking down the kite and then pulling the safety device to stop it flying at all (or is that what people mean by 'depowered' - i'd assumed itjust meant ensure the bar is pushed to max depower). Is it all just a matter of the extra hassle of putting away lines if you've activated the safety device?

Cheers,

Dan

manitoulinkiter1 - 17-2-2011 at 03:06 PM

Hey

Your right if the kite is going to jump around a lot when trying to land pull the safety.
I usually wait until I've tried to let it down slowly a couple of times but just pulling the safety is probably better. Like you said it's a matter of untangling things a bit more but way safer.

John

tobytobsen - 28-2-2011 at 06:41 AM

Thats the way i land my Arcs(Different animal of Kite). If possible I stall land them (not too much wind) and mount the back lines to the stake once savely down. then i am running to the kite and secure it.

When there's too much wind, i connect the leash to the stake and pull the safety(holding onto the leash as well to help the stake). Is a little harder to sort out the lines but save.

Mostly Harmless - 7-4-2011 at 05:02 PM

I created my own anchor with some PVC pipe, rope and a carabiner clip. I took a large diameter PVC pipe (about 2.5-3 feet in length) cut in it half, I made a point on one end and a hole in the middle and top. I put some rope through the middle hole and attached it to a carabiner clip (about 3-4 feet worth). I put some more rope through the top hole (this helps to take it out of the ground). When I get to the beach I bury the pipe at a 45 degree angle to the surface. It's holding power is very high, and it doesn't come loose. So far it has worked very well.