Power Kite Forum

Perfect day and then.. broke both spar pockets!

frostbite - 20-2-2011 at 12:36 PM

Wind looked good today, and I went to my usual spot next to the lake. I was able to launch the charger with out too much fuzz and for the first time I was able to ride back and forth a bit on my mountain board. Most fun I had so far with kiting! Things was going well until the kite inverted from a loft and bounced off of the ground, I managed to roll it right side up and relaunch it.

And that's when I noticed, that both of the spars have pop out of the front end of the spar pockets! I had to land the kite and call it a day. So how do I repair a broken spar pockets? Is there a way I can reinforce it some how?

Also, I am planning on going to Kitestorm next weekend. Where Can I get them fixed before then or will there be people who can repair kite at Kitestorm?

geokite - 20-2-2011 at 01:55 PM

My biggest complaint with these kites is the spar pockets/spars. One should not need to purchase after market spars from Coastal Wind Sports to prevent the spars from cutting through the ends of the pockets from a small crash. It was a problem with earlier kites, and VO has chosen to ignore the problem.

Wish I could help you get that fixed in a week.

cheezycheese - 20-2-2011 at 02:39 PM

Since it's not an internal part of the kite maybe a local tailor can help you. But I would stand over their shoulder while they are doing it.

ripsessionkites - 20-2-2011 at 02:48 PM

For all USA repairs ; www.fixmykite.com/default.asp

For all Canada repairs can go through Windspeed Kites

All warranty issues need to go through me.

frostbite - 20-2-2011 at 07:09 PM

I really like to have the kite for kitestorm so the lead time from using fixmykite won't really work for me. Is this something that can be done myself? Or at a tailor?

I was even thinking this afternoon that I should go find a shoe repair guy and have him stich a leather end on the spar pocket both to repair and to further reinforce the weak point.

I have the spars from Costal Wind btw, didn't prevent the problem from happening still.

ripsessionkites - 20-2-2011 at 07:21 PM

shoot, Fix my Kite (jeff / richard) an email and let them know that Ricardo at PLP / VLOP sent you and let them know your in a rush. maybe they can help

a quick, depending on how big the tear is to get some heavy dacron, leather, etc and push it into the inside for the time being until you can get it repaired.

markite - 20-2-2011 at 08:39 PM

If you take it in for a quick repair just be aware of how that sleeve is constructed - if you get someone to sew something over the end, you can stitch along the side of the sleeve following the same stitch line that is there. DO NOT SEW ACROSS THE POCKET or it will shorten the sleeve and then the spar will butt to the new stitched line and might punch a new hole out the side of sleeve.
Like Richard mentioned if you can fold some dacron, a piece of webbing etc over the end of the rod - even tape it on and push it down the sleeve to protect that end from the inside for a temporary fix.
Even a good duct taping the outside and don't put a lot of pressure on the rod when closing the velcro will give you an emergency repair.

Maybe someone can bring a sewing machine and some material to Kitestorm and fix it up for you one evening? Or just material and find someone local to let you use their machine?

macboy - 20-2-2011 at 10:24 PM

Can I ask - what do your spars look like? Do you have caps on both ends of them? I ask because the "Pass The Charger" Charger only had caps on one end of the spars and I wasn't sure which end to stuff in. I left the uncapped end out near the closure figuring it was a bit more fabric than the front pockets.

(Rip - I'll post an update in the Pass thread.)

ripsessionkites - 20-2-2011 at 10:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by macboy
Can I ask - what do your spars look like? Do you have caps on both ends of them? I ask because the "Pass The Charger" Charger only had caps on one end of the spars and I wasn't sure which end to stuff in. I left the uncapped end out near the closure figuring it was a bit more fabric than the front pockets.

(Rip - I'll post an update in the Pass thread.)


the endcaps arent glued on just incase you need to replace the bungee cord or the cord cap.

i assume they are in the pocket already, just feel for them.

im trying to find more heavy duty endcaps, for freebies.

indigo_wolf - 21-2-2011 at 07:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ripsessionkites
im trying to find more heavy duty endcaps, for freebies.


Do you have an OD on the spars?

Weird and might require some Dremel work, but would be interested to see how something like this would work (and safer than working in the lab during a lightning storm :o ).

Small Game Bludgeon Arrow Tip
Available in screw-on or push-on varieties.


As there is generally no damage to tip or shaft even after a full on impact into a tree, they seem like likely candidates.

Don't hunt, just file away strange things in my head for later use... sometimes years down the line.

ATB,
Sam

indigo_wolf - 21-2-2011 at 07:39 AM

FWIW: If Jeff a FixMyKite can't get you sorted in time, you might contact Rachel - at- stormboarding.com (I believe she is one of the Kitestorm hosts) to see if they do repairs in their shop.

If not, you might want to check if any of the local climb shops do in-house repair work (on harnesses, and such). They would have webbing, heavy duty polyester thread, and have sewing machines that won't get bogged down by nylon webbing. In addition, they are already familiar working with gear that's stressed and would tend to be OCD about it.

ATB,
Sam

frostbite - 21-2-2011 at 03:27 PM

Would this work if I can stick it on and get some one to stitch it?

Kevlar Sail Repair Tape:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductD...

indigo_wolf - 22-2-2011 at 04:23 AM

Doubtful.... it is mostly mylar with a very wide/open weave of kevlar. Good for sail repairs because of the low stretch the combination of materials would provide. It's not so good for any applications that require resistance to abrasion or punctures. Check the first user review on the product page.

ATB,
Sam

P.S. Can you post pics of the damage to the spar pockets?

kitesurfer - 22-2-2011 at 05:17 AM

i took a small washer one rch larger in diameter than the spar. I taped it on the end of the spar with electrical tape. this eliminated the sharp edges of the spar and changed it too a a flat/blunt end . no problems yet. i've been doing this to all my spars since my brand new 1120 cut the pocket years ago.

frostbite - 22-2-2011 at 07:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by indigo_wolf
Doubtful.... it is mostly mylar with a very wide/open weave of kevlar. Good for sail repairs because of the low stretch the combination of materials would provide. It's not so good for any applications that require resistance to abrasion or punctures. Check the first user review on the product page.

ATB,
Sam

P.S. Can you post pics of the damage to the spar pockets?


I don't have any chance till Friday to get photos, probably too late by then. But the holes are basically only slightly larger than the smaller diameter replacement spars and at the very end of the spar pocket on the leading edge side, right about the center of the pocket.

Some duct tape might hold for the weekend, but I am thinking that it won't stick very well to the fabric and will probably falls off during flight.. Is there any way I can stitch the pocket with needles and some thread as a temporary measure?

By the way I also contacted Rachael from Storm boarding, but I am guessing that she might be a bit overwhelmed now.

vtliter - 22-2-2011 at 08:27 AM

Rachael doesn't do repairs. If you have a local sail loft they can get you sorted out, plus they have the right equipment to sew the material.

frostbite - 22-2-2011 at 01:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by vtliter
Rachael doesn't do repairs. If you have a local sail loft they can get you sorted out, plus they have the right equipment to sew the material.


There's a Dole sail loft on City Island not too far from here, but last time they repaired a tear on the kite, apparently it took them so long to figure out how to do it the lady told me "take it to some one else if you tear it again" :no:

indigo_wolf - 22-2-2011 at 02:20 PM

If you are looking for a temporary fix for the weekend, and then sending it off to FixMyKite, you might be better off with Kevlar Tape. Not particularly cheap, but cheaper than the Holt Tape you were looking at. The problem is that I have been having trouble finding places that have it.



A roll is $14.26 (1 inch wide) or $27.68 (2 inch wide). A roll is 10 yards... overkill, but...

The links are to a place called Jamestown Distributors (Bristol, RI).... not sure where you are, if they are on your way up, or if you are close enough that expedited shipping wouldn't kill you.

Any place in your neck of the works that does kayak construction or repair should also stock it.

ATB,
Sam

flyguy0101 - 22-2-2011 at 02:34 PM

@ frostbite- if you are interested in trying the kevlar tape realize it is really called a seam tape and does not have any glue or sticky stuff; but ia pretty sure that i have some from my kayak building days in the shop i can send you.... You pay the overnight shipping and i can send it tommorrow for thursday delivery. Let me know or send me a u2u. If i do not have the kevlar left i know i have some polyester seam tape left (it is a little softer and may work better)
Scott

Feyd - 23-2-2011 at 06:09 AM

Punched out pocket is a relatively easy fix. You can even do it yourself by hand if you have any sewing skill at all and the right needle (kinda heavy gauge) and a strong UV resistant thread. I have to repair one on mine before Kitestorm in fact.

Just to get up and running I match the stitch pattern that was there previously, making sure to inspect the front line connection webbing. The white webbing that your lines go to. If that is damaged you may have to send it out for professional repair.

When doing the short term repair I tend to do a little extra stitching to be thorough. Otherwise it's a good idea if you have a high incidence of spar pocket/ground contact a protective NON-SEAMED reinforcement layer stitched over the end.

The spar pocket issue has a couple of things that contribute to the failure IMO.

1. The stupid little rubber caps don't do squat to protect the fabric from the alloy spar becomming a "cookie cutter" in an impact.

2. The end of the pocket has a seam. Sometimes the spar punches through the seam, sometimes the fabric. Often the seam fails after repeated minor impacts. Fabric punch through is usually the result of more abrupt impact.

We've expiremented with various methods of elliminating this problem. Everything from duct tape to viscous elastomer dampeners. The dampeners work awesome but honestly some well placed duct tape on the spare, wrapped so that it gives a little in an impact, does a hell of a job.

This is a simple problem and requires only a simple solution.

I've taken to reinforcing the stitching on my kites just as a preventative measure. I'd rather take the time to do that than have a session end early.

If you have a sail repair outfit nearby they can fix it quickly if they don't have other stuff that takes priority. This is a pretty straight forward repair compared to repairing a wing tear.

van - 23-2-2011 at 06:22 AM

You know those patch they sell for you to iron on the knee part of your jeans? That might work as a temporary solution. :smilegrin:



focus on the patch , not what's above or below :shocked2:

csa_deadon - 23-2-2011 at 08:46 AM

Spar pockets have been a problem since the days of the Hawaiian Team kites, and earlier. Doesn't matter what you do to prevent "punch out" you still run the chance of it happening. The best fix/repair I have seen is seat belt material sewn over the punch out. It flexes enough to last. Markite said it best "DO NOT SEW ACROSS THE POCKET". Unhappy times will follow.

With the 16m scorpion I had, I glued the stock end caps in place and then "forced slightly larger end caps over those. If I had needed to replace the bungee I could have cut the end caps off the spar. End caps are cheaper to replace.

Feyd - 23-2-2011 at 08:54 AM

I dunno but that chicky in the pic looks like she could use a sandwich.


Just sayin.

frostbite - 23-2-2011 at 03:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by van
You know those patch they sell for you to iron on the knee part of your jeans? That might work as a temporary solution. :smilegrin:



focus on the patch , not what's above or below :shocked2:


What patch? I don't see any patches? :o

frostbite - 23-2-2011 at 03:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Feyd

2. The end of the pocket has a seam. Sometimes the spar punches through the seam, sometimes the fabric. Often the seam fails after repeated minor impacts. Fabric punch through is usually the result of more abrupt impact.

We've expiremented with various methods of elliminating this problem. Everything from duct tape to viscous elastomer dampeners. The dampeners work awesome but honestly some well placed duct tape on the spare, wrapped so that it gives a little in an impact, does a hell of a job.


This was what happen to my kite, I should have reinforced the seam when it was weaken earlier but I counted on the better replacement spar not to punch through the pocket, but they still did.

I am thinking of going to a shoe repair shop and ask the guy to sew and reinforce it with a bit of leather. If I can't find some one to do it I'll just sew it my self and reinforce it with some duct tape in the mean time to hold me over the weekend.

Feyd - 23-2-2011 at 04:32 PM

I'm sure you'll get it resolved well enough to get through the weekend. I flew 5 miles on Saturday with both spars sticking out of the pockets. One about 4" the other 1". It doesn't take much to secure them as long as you don't whip it in again. :spin:

zero gee - 23-2-2011 at 04:56 PM

I had a shoe guy just run a couple of passes of stitching just in front of where it cut through.I had a kite fixer do the same when it happened on Hatteras last year too. Both fixes were quick and cheap. It does shorten the pocket a bit. The spar fits tighter than it did. I have seen no difference in handling.

This is my spar end cap mod...
I was in my neighbourhood hardware store looking for any kind of suitable replacement cap similar to the Coastal Windsports ones. What I found were washers similar to these... Bonded Sealing Washers. They are plated ones. Slightly cupped (rounded). Their outside diameter slightly larger than the OD on the PL spars. The bonded neoprene washer just happened to be the exact diameter as the ID of the PL spars. Great for positioning and fit. They weight almost nothing. They cost 10 cent each.

I fed the shock cord throught the washer and tied a knot on the end to snug it up and so the shock cord still functions as intended. I put the rubber cap back over it. I am thinking (and hoping) this will stop the "cookie cutter".

Feyd - 23-2-2011 at 06:18 PM

That chick definately needs a sandwich or something.

van - 23-2-2011 at 07:24 PM

Just so everyone knows .. I will be taking donation to buy the chick a sandwich. I take paypal or cash. I will make sure she gets a nice healthy sandwich. :bigok:

frostbite - 25-2-2011 at 09:06 AM

I end up getting the pocket repaired at the shoe repair spot across the street. I ask the guy to sew a piece of leather onto the end to reinforce it further. Not sure how well the leather will deal with salt water when i decide to start hitting the beach but certainly look sturdy.

cheezycheese - 25-2-2011 at 09:10 AM

Looks good. Now have fun at kitestorm !!!

herc - 25-2-2011 at 09:24 AM

Quote:
I'm sure you'll get it resolved well enough to get through the weekend. I flew 5 miles on Saturday with both spars sticking out of the pockets.


btw., anyone ever tried to fly an arc kite completely without spars ? how does it fly then? does it fly OK if you do not power up too much ? might one - in high winds (thus high internal pressure) - just leave the spars away ?

flyjump - 25-2-2011 at 09:56 AM

I flew one with a spar bent at a 45 degree angle once....didn't even seem to notice that it was bent. It flew just fine. Now without the spars I don't forsee that working very well. they are supposed to be a stable platform that facilitate the turn when the steering lines are being worked. without a solid piece in there I just don't think there would be enough internal pressure to cause it to turn correctly