Power Kite Forum

just tried new Method...I do something wrong?

cosmoyogi - 4-3-2011 at 07:04 PM

Granted, there was just enough wind to keep my new 6.5m Method in the air, but it seems like the brake lines are way way too long, I had to pull the trim in all the way on the turbo bar to feel any turning response. It turns really slow compared to my 2010 7m frenzy. I slammed it into the ground a couple of times trying to loop it under which I can do easily with the frenzy. A little disappointed , but I will try it in my buggy with more wind before I make a solid judgement on it. Anyone else have this experience?:puzzled:

awindofchange - 4-3-2011 at 07:10 PM

***Post edited and corrected***

Are your lines connected correctly to the Turbo bar? The top lines should be connected to the CENTER of the bar (leading edge lines). And the brake or bottom lines should be connected to the OUTSIDE (trailing edge lines).

Also, check your settings. When flying a kite for the first time some tuning may be necessary to get the brake lines adjusted properly. If the brake lines are too tight, the kite will stall out and not fly very good. Turning will be very sporadic, speed will be very slow and you will have poor control. By having the brake lines too loose, speed will be good, power may be very light, the kite will have a tendency to overshoot the window and you will have difficulty stalling or landing the kite.

Hope this helps.

cosmoyogi - 4-3-2011 at 07:32 PM

Ahso! That is what I suspected. I did indeed hook them up wrong, but I did follow the photocopied set-up directions for the turbo bar which came with the turbo bar. Would you mind double checking that for me Kent? I believe they are wrong. If so then I will certainly not be the only person to make this mistake and if done in high wind it could be a very dangerous mistake do to the loss of control. The directions in the landkite manual do appear to be correct. I will try again tomorrow. Thanks.

chudalicious - 4-3-2011 at 07:42 PM

Just an FYI.. I had the same problem with my Flow. I ended up having to shorten the brake lines close to the bar or it would not steer at all!

cosmoyogi - 4-3-2011 at 08:31 PM

Hey Chud, are you sure you didn't have your lines switched like I did? Also does your 9m frenzy overlap your 7m frenzy much. Do you wish you had an 11m instead?

John Holgate - 4-3-2011 at 09:17 PM

I think you've got it rigged up ok but my Turbo bar was the same - the first time I hooked it up the brake lines were waaaayyyy slack and I had very little control. Shortening the brake leaders worked, but the new knots fouled the pulleys on a hard turn. So, make yourself some six inch long 'pigtails' and add them to the power lines at the kite end. Then trim the bar to suit. I leave my pigtails connected and use them on every kite I fly with the bar. Ozone got the geometry of some of the bars just plain wrong.

The Method 6.5m works very nicely with the bar - see the vid in the review section. Here's a photo of my 'pigtail'.

extendo knot.jpg - 168kB

John Holgate - 4-3-2011 at 09:46 PM

BTW I set my brake lines so there's just a tiny bit of tension on them with the bar out - like, another half an inch and they'd be slack. The Method likes a little tension on the brakes to stop it overflying so if I'm standing around with it over my head, I'll pull the bar in maybe halfway or so - too much will stall it, too little will let it fly over you and luff.

I queried Ozone on the setup of the bar but did not get a satisfactory response (which is a tad unusual from them) but I only ever found one other person who had the same problem as I did - ie: brake lines hanging way slack. (checked my lines for length too). Pigtail was a dead easy fix and the turbo bar has done probably 1000km since then. Be aware too, that too many twists - particularly in the grey line below where the power lines join - can create enough friction to rob you of your control - which has led to one buster that I know of.

PS: once you get the lines the right length, I can assure you that the combination of the 6.5m Method and Turbo Bar is just bloody beautiful!! :thumbup:

cosmoyogi - 4-3-2011 at 09:56 PM

Oh boy. Now I am confused. In any case, the turbo bar set-up instructions are wrong on either the landkite manual or the photocopied instructions that came with the bar itself because they are contradictory.

John Holgate - 4-3-2011 at 11:16 PM

Yeah, the landkite manual pictures aint the clearest I've ever seen. On a normal fixed bridle bar (yuk) the brakes are through the center (page 9). It's a little hard to tell from the diagram on page 12 which is which. Trust me on this one, power lines to the middle - brakes (trailing edge lines) on the outside. Sounds like exactly what you did except you got the dreaded super slack brake lines (as I also did). Don't add knots to your brake leaders - they may foul and JAM in your pulleys - particularly as you need 5 or 6 inches. Use the pigtails to lengthen your power lines (I used 1.5mm spectra from a marine outlet).

Just to be safe - double check your flying lines to make sure they're even.

It's an odd one, I only know of one other Turbo Bar in Aus that has this problem but it's a real easy fix. I know that it should be right from the factory but I don't think any kite manufacturer is immune to the odd mistake..

chudalicious - 4-3-2011 at 11:20 PM

Nope. My lines were set up as they should be on the turbo bar so i investigated online and it turns out it happens quite often. Fixed it by shortening the outer brake lines with knots and good to go. Great bar since it allows you to spin the bar without interfering with the leash kinda like the depowers. So just like John talks about above.

As for the 7 and 9 frenzy, yes they overlap but they are not both for me. I had bought the 9 for my man who is 85 lbs more than me so it was not to really even out my quiver but more for his learning like mine on the 7. great kites indeed!!

John Holgate - 4-3-2011 at 11:31 PM

Here's the pic from the Turbo Bar manual. It is correct. I think it's just the pic in the landkite manual that is not as clear as it could be.

Turbo bar.jpg - 130kB

cosmoyogi - 5-3-2011 at 01:06 AM

Ok, thanks John, I believe you. I will try pigtails tomorrow. As for the landkite manual, it shows (on page 12) the (rear) brake lines going to the harness, and the (front) power lines going to the bar ends. I guess the proofreader fell asleep on the job.

John Holgate - 5-3-2011 at 02:55 AM

Let us know how it goes. I was scratching my head a bit looking at the landkite manual too - not the most illuminating diagrams I've seen.....

You won't need much brake static flying - just a bit to stop it overflying the window if you're holding it at the edge. Once the kite is up to speed in the buggy you'll find with a bit of brake, the kite will sit back a little in the window with more power. My Flow likes heaps of brake when moving at speed but not when moving slowly - ie: static flying. It took me a few hours to get used to the turbo bar and the effect of brake at different speeds.

cheezycheese - 5-3-2011 at 07:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chudalicious
As for the 7 and 9 frenzy, yes they overlap but they are not both for me. I had bought the 9 for my man who is 85 lbs more than me so it was not to really even out my quiver but more for his learning like mine on the 7. great kites indeed!!


You sound like me, when I try to tell my wife that the new 2.2 RII I bought was for my son.... :smilegrin: it actually does sound more convincing coming from a woman though..... :smug:
End hijack

acampbell - 5-3-2011 at 08:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by awindofchange

Are your lines connected correctly to the Turbo bar? The reason I ask is that fixed bridle kites are connected exactly opposite that of depower kites.



Yeah I think Kent got mixed up. The Turbo bar answers the question of what would happen if you hoked up your FB kite to a De-power bar, with the top lines to the *center* and brake/ rear lines to the ends of the bar. Moving the bar in and out lets you dynamically control brake tension.

I found with my brief experimentation with the Turbo bar that 4-line biased kites (I don't know the Method) will fly on the bar but it took a lot of tweeking. Even then, when i got the kite turning pretty well (it was a Reactor) , the brake line opposite the direction of the turn would be way slack, arcing way back behind the kite. Very disconcerting at first.

John Holgate - 5-3-2011 at 03:07 PM

Quote:

the brake line opposite the direction of the turn would be way slack, arcing way back behind the kite. Very disconcerting at first.


Yeah, I get that occasionally too although I have my brake lines tight enough so that it's not a big problem - unless I'm flying in tall grass in the paddocks - then the slack line can catch weed heads :o A slight tug in the opp direction tightens that line up without affecting the direction of the kite.

I flew a 4.4 Reactor II on the bar once and thought it did not like being steered on the brakes - I stalled it a lot during turns. Same with the Century 11 (prob worse actually). Even the Hornet prefers front line input - it will turn ok on the bar but you can feel it losing pressure in the kite when you turn it. So far, all the Ozone stuff I've flown on the bar has responded really nice to brake line input for turning as has the HQ stuff.

What would be really good is if Ozone could come up with a Turbo bar with an adjustable Front/Rear line ratio. That way, if you were flying a Reactor/Century, you could just dial in more front line input. Ah, we live in hope!

awindofchange - 6-3-2011 at 12:42 AM

Ok.....I really need to apologize as I was thinking normal 4 line bar and talking about turbo bar....not sure where my brain was but it surely wasn't in the right place. No more last minute posts before heading out for the night.

Thanks for the correction. I will edit my post as to not confuse anyone else on this issue.

cosmoyogi - 6-3-2011 at 06:58 PM

Ok, I just got in from a test (in my buggy) run after adding 5 inch pigtails to the kite end of the top/front/power lines of my new Method 6.5m The wind was still only 2 to 7 knots I am guessing. It responds better now, turns faster, but still not as much as I had hoped. I fiddled with the trim but didn't feel much of a difference. I didn't get to compare it with my new 7m frenzy because it started raining lightly. Next time I will try to compare them. One thing I didn't like is that when you do a loop you can't keep looping in one direction or the grey lead(?) lines that go to the center pulley, twist and cause a lot of friction, but I guess that is normal for a FB. I am now thinking I should have gone with an 11m frenzy.

John Holgate - 6-3-2011 at 09:25 PM

Yes, your right about the friction when looping although I'm probably only likely to loop it once or twice before I get the twists out. Sometimes I grab the grey stopper thingo just infront of the chicken loop and twist it in the opposite direction - that gets the twists out of that part of the system. It's very handy that it can turn like that.

Also, like I do with a depower, I'll pull in the bar when turning and let it straight out again. That makes a big difference to turning speed.

It took me a quite a few hours to get used to the turbo bar so give yourself a little time on it. It will be a little sluggish in those light winds. 7 knots is about the minimum for buggying -for me- with 20m lines.