Gimpster - 11-3-2011 at 10:22 PM
Finally made took the step up to power kites form stunt kites. I went a little big and picked up an Ozone Flow 5m with a quad-line bar setup. Would
have bought a turbo bar if I could get in to a harness but I need to slim down a little first to fit in one. Long story short The kite is great,
pulls like a freight train, but I can tell it needs to be adjusted a bit and I am looking for some advice. I spent the better part of this evening
looking for some good tuning advice but with little success. While there is information out there it's not as clear as i would like.
Right now the kite files and pulls hard in 10-15mph winds , below 10mph it does not really want to fly. There is a lot of slack in the break lines
(attached to the trailing edge of the kite and center pulley on the bar). The kite is very sluggish to turn, even when I put maximim input in to the
control bar (one end pointing at me and the other end pointing at the kite). It will not do a downloop without hitting the ground from the 12 o'clock
position int he wind window.
From what I have read, my observations of the kite and my understanding of aerodynamics I have inferred that the brake lines should be close to taunt
when parked at the top of the wind window. Now to do this I need to either attach the brake lines closer to the bar or lengthen the main lines, the
popular consensus being that the latter is better as adding in extra knotts to the brake pulley line can cause it to bind.
What I am wondering is this. My brake leader, which passes through a pulley, has plastic balls on its end currently slid up to the knots at its ends
behind which I have attached the brake lines. To me this looks wrong. I feel that the plastic balls are intended to be stoppers to set limits on how
much play the brake lines have, and that the lines should be attached between the plastic balls and the end knotts.
Am I on the right track with my train of though or is my logic misguided? More details on how a quad-line bar setup works with a fixed bridle works
would be appreciated.
Gimpster
Bladerunner - 12-3-2011 at 10:15 AM
The 5m Flow flies WAY better on handles ( or maybe the turbo bar ) from my limited experience.
If you are flying on a basic bar with a simple pulley allowing your brake lines to move without restriction then you are flying pretty much 100% on
the front lines 100% of the time. Your brakse have NO influence at all while you are flying and only come in to play when backing the kite down or
reverse launching. Tightening your brakes will only complicate your problems.
I would highly recommend you get a set of handles to fly that kite. Only then can you add the brake control to speed up turns etc..
What is it that makes new people buy too big a kite to learn on even though the info out there tells them it's a mistake ? :puzzled:
Be prepaired for a far greater learning curve than you would have flying a kite that you can be the master of fast. Only once you get complete control
of this kite will your real learning begin.
Seanny - 12-3-2011 at 10:24 AM
+1 for handles
fixed bridle kites in general seem to fly best on handles. Plus,
you just get so much more control over the kite with them. They're cheap. You will see the difference instantly 
Oh, by the way, if you move into a harness, you can hook your handles into the harness with a strop line. Which is basically just a thick chord that
you connect to the top of the handles and in turn hook into your spreader bar hook.
Gimpster - 12-3-2011 at 02:06 PM
I know the kite is big, I am a big guy (Pushing 270lbs) and the winds here in the south Puget Sound region of Western Washington are light, rarely do
I even have enough to fly my stunt kites. I got a bar setup so that I could get use to a bar in preparation for later transitioning to kite surfing
as there is more usable water here then land with clean wind and enough space. I did my research and every person I talked to agreed that this size
kite would be OK, for someone of my size given the prevailing wind conditions. Learning to fly the kite is not the issue I am having, I know how to
fly a multi-line kite.
I understand that handles will give me more control, but since they are not used out on the water, which is my eventual goal, I chose the bar.
Learning on a turbo bar, hooked in would be dangerous and currently I am too big for most harnesses. Thank you for implying I am an idiot.
So does anyone else have any useful advice for me aside from getting a smaller kite and use quad handles? Even on a bar this kite should be able to
preform a loop, and figure 8's without striking the ground.
Looking_Up - 12-3-2011 at 03:04 PM
Easy there
No one is attacking u
I myself fly at a weight above 290 so I can help u
The 5 flow is an excellent kite and you shouldn't have any trouble in winds below 20 if you fly smart the flow will fly great in winds under 10
Now to the harness issue I do not now your build just your weight but the Dakine fusion is the seat harness I use and it is super comfy with no
pinching you can do what u want with the bar issue but I started with an ozone little devil 4.5 on handles and flew it in winds non existent you can
really milk the light winds but when I went to a kitesurfing kite I took lessons that progressed very fast ,bar flight was easy and simple
You already know how to fly so just get used to the power until u take your first tube kite lesson and have fun but you will be much happier with that
flow on handles or the turbo bar that is just the truth I got up and riding my first time with no previous bar experience so you will also do fine
people here are just trying to help you with there experiences many have tried and know what will or won't make your experience the least frustrating
So have fun and happy Kiting
And remember there are many was to skin the same cat
Bladerunner - 12-3-2011 at 04:41 PM
Sorry if I came across as coming down on you. I'm not. You asked for advice and I offered. It is advice that has gotten many up and going in quick
time.
Even when people are planning to move to a depower kite and water I feel you get a far better understanding of how your depower kite will turn using
handles and a strop. A depower kite performs more like that of a brake turn than on the front lines. Hooking into a harness with handles also allows
you to feel how you speed the kite up through the front lines / harness and slow it down with brakes. Sort of = 2 pulling in the bar. You can learn a
ton about how depower works hooking into a kite and using handles in a similar fashion. Although more safely with a 3-4m kite.
It isn't impossible to learn on a 5m kite. It just slows you down IMO . You won't have as large a wind range to learn in for starters. Your kite can
perform a whole lot better for you on anything but the bar you have now. Look into the 2:1 Crossover mod if you choose to stick with it.
If you plan to hit the water you really should be looking into lessons. Being master of the kite you have will be a huge help when lessons time comes.
Most important, have fun ! You found a great sport for a larger person. Nothing is holding you back from enjoying it !
P.S. in regard to the speed of turning. 5m is a biggish kite. The bigger the are the slower they turn. As mentioned , it will turn MUCH faster with
brake input.
bigkid - 12-3-2011 at 04:44 PM
Gimp, check your u2u
bobalooie57 - 12-3-2011 at 05:04 PM
My first powerkite was the 3.5M Ozone Imp, 3-line trainer, on a simple bar, front lines to the bar ends, single center brake line, velcro attached to
the bar and wrist strap/kite killer. Not the same set-up, but similar in that it is front line steering, and the brake line is essentially useless,
except for landing/reverse relaunching. I found if I thought of the bar as a handle bar on a bike with the center of the bar as a pivot, and I pushed
with the opposite hand while pulling in the direction I wanted to turn, I got slightly better response. But TBH, I always found if I started the turn
before I really wanted to turn, I would better be able to make the loop or fig.8 without crashing. I guess it is like anticipating the turn? I have
since modified the kite to fly on handles, and it is so much more responsive that I only use the bar to teach new kiters. Good luck, you can't go
wrong with the Flow, IMHO, and if you start out in sensible wind, should have no problems handling it. Have fun, welcome to the addiction! :singing:
Gimpster - 12-3-2011 at 06:45 PM
Thanks for the honesty and sorry if I got bent out of shape. Your arguments make sense. I may have to look in to getting some handles and I was
already looking in to getting a2m or 3m flow for heavy wind days and on the rare occasions I get out to the coast.
Seanny - 12-3-2011 at 10:20 PM
Handles just improve your overall flying experience on fixed bridle, and it's convenient that there's a way to hook them into a harness. Learning to
fly on a depower bar is soooooooo easy. Much easier than one would think. Since there's only a limited amount of control over the kite you have on a
bar, you don't need to think all that much to steer it. Everything is laid out in a linear fashion. Pull it left to turn left. Pull it right to turn
right. Sheet it in for more power. Sheet it out for less. No biggy.
Take a modest look at what we do. Seriously, they're just kites. However complicated people will make it appear. There are a million and one ways to
fly a kite, but they all work. Some will insist that one way is better than another. Whatever. The advice here is good, but the choice is always
yours. You're a big guy... no problem with starting on a 5m kite. Adam (flyjump) learned on a 5m Pansh Ace, 1st generation; and when jumping 15 feet
with it wasn't enough for him, he flew it in more wind. So? I'm all about safety, but the sport doesn't need to be pussafied. Depower, and "stepping
up" to it, is highly overrated. It takes less skills to fly depower than it does fixed bridle... especially with today's kite technology. IMO, paying
for lessons is hardly necessary, but that's just me.
It's all common sense. A 5m Flow is exactly the same as every other Flow size, it's just a little bit bigger. The learning curve is all the same. Once
you figure out the mechanics of the kite and really get to know it, it's easy from there. You'll do fine Best of luck!
Bladerunner - 13-3-2011 at 09:43 AM
I think if you are putting more money down it should / could go like this.
Get a set of handles for that kite.
Get a harness and get used to being hooked in slowly. Study how depower works and apply that to your flow. See how flying front + back lines effect
the speed turning etc.. It isn't impossible to learn on a 5 . You just have a little less wind speed to play with + will get pulled around a lot when
you should be flying.
Since you are headed for the water your next best money is spent on lessons. The instructor will assist you making a good choice of kite / board for
your needs and probably can find you a deal. Going on water is a different game. You learn many important safety and sailing skills not as needed on
land + have your learning curve pushed way up.
If you do buy another kite I would suggest a small closed cell foil. The Flysurfer Viron looks purpose built for this. $$$ That 8m Pulse on here is
nice $$ A small closed cell can end up your high wind kite down the wave.
I started with a 3m 3 line JoJo on a bar. I had a HOOT flying that kite but my real education in how the kite can be flown didn't begin until I got
flying handles and depower. You clearly think the right way and will see how it all comes together once you get handles on there + start thinking
about how a depower kite works.
Gimpster - 13-3-2011 at 08:15 PM
I spent the better part of an hour talking to BigKid on the phone and thanks to his and all of your input I know understand the recommendation of
handles better. They are now in the top of my list and equipment to buy, along with possibly getting a smaller kite to increase my effective wind
window for flying.
I still think that it is posible to get more control out of the bar with some readjusting of the line lengths and limiting the brake line throw
through the pulley. Based on it's design it looks like it is intended to apply the break on one side of the kite to aid in turning like one would do
using handles but the current slack in those lines and the available throw through the pulley is not allowing them to come in to play.
I don't plan to get out on the water until after I finish school and get back to work. So for the next 2 summers I will likely be a land-boarder.
Gimpster