Power Kite Forum

Foot Straps

tracktROB - 19-12-2005 at 08:41 AM

I have seen some buggiers used Da Kine foot straps for the buggy foot pegs with plastic tie wrap as to reject without injury in case so needing to know which model strap kind they use like Primo, Proform, or Supremo that will fit on Libres...

coreykite - 19-12-2005 at 01:51 PM

Rob,
The folks you've seen using those kinds of straps either have already or are heading towards a broken leg.
On a buggy, what you want to use is BOOTS with HEELS.
That keeps your foot on the peg without risk.
Allows you to transfer energy to the buggy.
Doesn't trap your foot if you need to bail.

Some of us who have been doing this for a while have found running the bumps and moguls ("pucker bumps") the motorcyclist have made at El Mirage, on our buggys, to be fun.
At speeds over 18-20 mph, one occasionaly can leave the ground.
Pushing with your feet against the pegs isn't as effective when you and the buggy are in the air.
So some of us have fashioned loose bunji cords to run from the end of the footpeg, over the top of the fork to the other footpeg.
Not to keep our feet on the footpeg.
Too keep our feet from flying away if airborne.
Subtle yet important difference if one likes to keep walking.

Identify your needs first.
Don't go by what you might see others doing.
Appearances can be deceiving.
Knowledge keeps you safe.

Safen Up! Buggy On!

"I am often wrong... But never in doubt"

the coreylama

JoJo1 - 21-12-2005 at 09:32 AM

Once again Cory you are in Doubt and you are Very Wrong!!! The footstraps by Dakine that J. Elllis and I and several others use will not break your leg in any way shape or form. The zip ties are designed to break at any hint of twist or upward movement. They provide a bennefit of keeping the foot in place til it needs to move. The safety benefit has been demonstrated to many I guess you need o see how easy it is to get out of the strap. Not one accident of not being able to get out of Dakine straps has happened nor will it ever in fact you break the straps a bunch when you don't want to. :thumbup:
Big John
JoJo1:moon:

Tigger - 21-12-2005 at 11:46 AM

I have seen the way some put a bungie cord across the pegs. I just cant seem to picture how the zip tie in conjuntion with the staps look, can you post a picture:?:

action jackson - 21-12-2005 at 02:38 PM

I have not used foot straps for several years after sarah twisted her ankle with the Dakines................aj

coreykite - 21-12-2005 at 04:39 PM

Oh BigJohn,
Reread my post as you seem to have missed the point.
It's not about defending your use of footstraps.

The positive points you mention are available to all of us wearing boots with heels. Are you saying THAT is a bad idea?

Again, I suggest you identify need first.
The simplest solution is often the right one.

This often does not provide a product for the marketplace.
Or have our wallets replaced our brains?

But I don't think it's about footstraps.
You seem to have a personal issue with me.
Let's not confuse the kids by fighting in front of them.
E-mail me at corey@windpowersports.com with your concerns.


Safen Up! Buggy On!

"I'm often wrong... But never in doubt."

the coreylama

mecdave - 22-12-2005 at 05:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by action jackson
I have not used foot straps for several years after sarah twisted her ankle with the Dakines................aj


Sarah twisted her ankle (bad) when her stock Libre footstraps were set too tight. The velcro was so overlapped you couldn't pull them apart at all.

The Dakines work great, breaking the upper zip tie at any hint of twist, as in when you are having an Out of Buggy experience. Agree the ideal solution would be no straps, but I also like hitting the sand dune moguls, similar to Elmers pucker bumps, and the straps help keep your foot close to the pegs when things really get wild.

Here's what I use, with instructions for mounting them and a photo of them installed... (click on the Pro-Form Footstrap link)
http://www.windance.com/windstore/company/dakine/dakine.htm

The Pro straps have velcro adjustments on the outside that allow you to stretch the strap far enough apart to reach between the peg and fork (barely).

Poke a hole with a hot soldering iron through one end of the strap to screw it into the end of the footpeg. Use a "wave" washer to prevent the screw from getting pulled through the material. Wave washers are used on boat tarps for example.

On the other end of the strap poke two holes through the material about an inch apart. Then run your zip tie through the holes and around the upper part of the fork.

Here's what it should look like:
http://www.buggytexas.com/images/fender12.JPG

Keep extra zip ties handy as you will break one from time to time.

PS I can't take credit for this system. Jon Ellis showed me his about 3 years ago and have had both my buggys set up this way ever since. Works as designed, ie perfectly.

action jackson - 22-12-2005 at 05:47 AM

I stand corrected but i am still strap-less........aj:spin:

mecdave - 22-12-2005 at 06:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by action jackson
I stand corrected but i am still strap-less........aj:spin:


Yeah, and often shirt-less too. Just one garment away from buggying naked! Arrgghhh :lol:

After furthur thought, bracing yourself into a buggy may actually INCREASE your chances of breaking a leg, particularly if you're wearing heels too. What happens when you meet an inmovable object and you brace for the impact? Something has to give. It seems to me with heels your feet are less likely to slide off the pegs increasing your chances of breaking an ankle or leg or knee.

Of course try NOT to brace before an impact. :)

tracktROB - 22-12-2005 at 11:36 AM

I believe foot straps can be dangerous if not a right strap which will not release buggy's foot at all.. DaKine type strap with plastic zip tie hold on are great insurance to any buggiers to reject without leg injury. Yes, it's mostly useful for bumpy terrain without having my legs pop off from the foot pegs to hit the ground rush and front steering wheel goes out of control as crazy. (that's can occur ouch!)

Every buggier have different own preferences to have it or strap-less mood.

Look at professional bikers like Lance Armstrong wearing foot pedal straps cruising at very high speed... On other hand, snow skiers have bindings with adjustable rate to break off from their skis in case fall down. Plastic zip ties acts the same thing to ski bindings to prevent leg injuries.

See you all in straps or strap-less and in hats or hat-less under the sun...:wink2:

coreykite - 22-12-2005 at 12:45 PM

Look Fellows,
It's one thing when we who are doing this sport sit around camp and share ideas and neat solutions to particular problems.

It's another thing entirely when non-players or entry-level players look at what others are doing, base their assumptions on limited understanding of the situations, and are encouraged on without the foundation of skills and experience.

It's a known fact that kiters are cheap.
Rather than buy gear, won't many opt for home-rigged stuff?
By encouraging things like footstraps without regard to the context of the new users, aren't we doing a dis-service to our sport?

I like to be overly dramatic on this forum.
Gets folks talking and discussing.
Maybe even thinking.

Knowledge is the key to this game.
Keeps us happy and keeps us safe.

Please recognize the difference between what an individual rider may prefer, based on their experience, and the newcomers to our game and the process they need to go through to build their experiences and knowledge.

Knowing what we do now, as experienced riders, doesn't help newcomers if they can't understand how we got there.

Starting out, I don't recommend footstraps of any kind.
Learn what you're doing in a practical sense before making those kinds of decisions.

Have I made myself clear?


Safen Up! Buggy On!

"I'm often wrong... But never in doubt."

the coreylama

action jackson - 22-12-2005 at 02:25 PM

Here is a pic of cory and jeff both dressed in heals ready to buggy!...............aj:lol:

doubledrag.jpg - 8kB

tracktROB - 22-12-2005 at 07:38 PM

They forgot to wear women high heel shoes...sigh. One of them have to come down to Texas to purchase a pair of Justin Cowgirl BOOT with HEELS then go buggy at SLP where Texans ride at.

mecdave - 23-12-2005 at 11:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by coreykite
It's a known fact that kiters are cheap.
Rather than buy gear, won't many opt for home-rigged stuff?


Buggy-ers have been making homemade footstraps as long as there have been buggys. How many here put bungees or bike inner tubes across their old Peter Lynn Comp footpegs and forks?

At least with the Dakine system we are advocating a safer breakaway footstrap. You can fashion a piece of plywood for a strap (though I'm not recommending you do) and as long as it is held in place with a regular size zip tie it will break away *when it needs to*.


Quote:
Originally posted by coreykite
By encouraging things like footstraps without regard to the context of the new users, aren't we doing a dis-service to our sport?


What I find is a disservice is a major company including footstraps without instructions on how to properly set them up.

We do a disservice everytime we walk past a shiny new Libre and don't take the time to explain to the newbie why there should only be about 2 inches of overlapping velcro, or show them an even better way like the Dakines.

Quote:
Originally posted by coreykite
Please recognize the difference between what an individual rider may prefer, based on their experience, and the newcomers to our game and the process they need to go through to build their experiences and knowledge.

Knowing what we do now, as experienced riders, doesn't help newcomers if they can't understand how we got there.

Starting out, I don't recommend footstraps of any kind.
Learn what you're doing in a practical sense before making those kinds of decisions.


When I first started racing cars my mentor told me the first rule of racing is to wear a seat belt. "If you are not behind the wheel, you are not in control."

The same applies to buggys. If your feet aren't on the pegs and your butt isn't in the seat, you are not in control.

Corey, I know you are anti-kitekillers because you are giving up control when you let go, and I wholeheartedly agree. How is giving up control of your buggy any different?

I maintain that it's especially important for a newbie to have a proper breakaway type footstrap in order to help keep his feet on the pegs for his own safety.

Sure, he may learn how to keep them on the pegs quicker after having them come off and jamming them into the dirt a few times, but at what cost to his feet or ankles?

Those of us here advocating the Dakine breakaway system are hardly newbies and know well how to brace ourselves in to keep our feet on the pegs. Yet we do break a zip tie from time to time even with heeled boots on. Why do you think that is?

No, it's not because we never learned the *right* way, it's because sometimes things get a little wild out there. We sometimes play harder, hitting the mogules or flying overpowered. Can you honestly say your feet stay on the pegs all the time and you never lose control of your fork even/especially when playing in the rough stuff?

A newbie quickly learns how *not* to break a zip tie.

Quote:
Originally posted by coreykite
Have I made myself clear?


Yes, and hopefully I've made it clear there is more than one way to skin a cat... or a shin or an ankle. ;)

Still not convinced? Next time you see a Dakine footstrap grab it and give it a twist. Go ahead and do it. We are always happy to show how easily it breaks away and how you can have your cake and eat it too... safely.

coreykite - 23-12-2005 at 12:19 PM

Close but no cigar.

One more time... Boots... with heels.
That's a great way to BEGIN.

All your arguments apply to some one with knowledge and skills.
Most beginners don't have that.

Why the insistance on "gimmicks" instead of helping build skills?

"Hitting the moguls and flying overpowered" sounds like an experienced buggier. Not the point when we're talking to beginners.

Not using footstraps is not anti-safety.
Nor is it not being in control.
That's why I wear boots with heels.

I watch buggiers wearing flip-flops and sandals.
I watch them ride barefoot with the peg under their toes and their heels hanging within an inch of the ground.
I see them wearing smooth bottom sneakers.

Footstaps are a great excuse to not change those bad habits.

Just wear boots with heels and learn how to buggy first.

I am amazed at all the defensive posturing this has engendered.

Can we separate what we as experienced riders do with what entry-level riders need to learn to make their own decisions?

When I hear "what we should do" and then catch flak for doing something, I wonder.

I'm no newcomer to this sport.
And I'm not defending "what I do" and suggesting others follow suit.
I am attempting to offer basic help to newcomers with basic questions.
Isn't that the point of all this?

When did it become "This is my favorite footstrap"?


Safen Up! Buggy On!

"I'm often wrong... But never in doubt"

the coreylama

mecdave - 24-12-2005 at 04:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by coreykite
I am amazed at all the defensive posturing this has engendered.


Frankly so am I.

You have a Merry Christmas Bif! :tumble: