Power Kite Forum

Twister on Crossover Bar?

bradg - 15-4-2011 at 03:19 PM

Hey guys!
I was looking into getting a de-power kite, but due to the cost I have since decided to go with something fixed. I was wanting a kite that was not as unforgiving as say the blade, but something I could still get some decent air with on a landboard. I was going for the Twister II and decided against it because I have heard it sucks on the bar. After talking to someone I found that it can be flown well on the HQ Crossover bar. Just curious if anyone on here has any experience with a similar kite/bar setup?

John Holgate - 15-4-2011 at 03:50 PM

Here's something I wrote in another thread:
Quote:

I use an Ozone Turbo bar 99% of the time when I'm not flying depowers. Turbo Bar turns with about 70% brake input and you need to make sure the kite you're flying likes to be turned like that. My Flow/Imps/Beamer/Methods fly very well on the bar. I've also flown a 4m Blade V on the bar and it flew and turned very well. There's also some video of a crossfire II 5m being flown on the bar. I've tried my Century II 2.8 and it was a disaster - as soon as I went to turn the kite there was too much brake input, squeezed the air out of one side of the kite with the resulting stall & spin. Reactor II 4m was similar. Hornets fly ok, but you can feel them lose a little pressure in the turn. Pulling on a bit of brake is a one handed operation - very handy while filming in the bug. The bar took me a little while to get used to because when you're static flying and pull too much brake, the kite stalls. At speed in the buggy, the same amount of brake now holds the kite back in the window and provides a bit more power - not dis similar to a depower kite, except your only controlling brakes, not depowering the kite. Ozone advertise the turbo bar as having 'depower through the brakes'. I do not agree with this - adding brakes simply gives the wing a bit more lift (like flaps on a wing) up until the drag beats the lift and the kite stalls - not what I call depower. Kite turns easier on the bar because of leverage and mechanical advantage of the pulleys on the bar. Although you don't have as much control as you can do with handles - I've never needed to do something with the kite that I couldn't do with the bar. There's some close up footage of the Method on the bar in the reviews section (Method 6.5). There's also some close up footage of the bar here too: depower bar shootout


The 6.5m Method on the turbo bar may be a similar setup to the twister on a crossover bar - and it works beautifully for me in the buggy. Having said that, I cannot tell you how the twister responds to being steered mostly on the brake lines - which is what the turbo bar setup would do.

Bladerunner - 15-4-2011 at 04:41 PM

Wouldn't a good used depower cost about the same as a new Twister + turbo or crossover bar?
I would either save or toss in the little extra cash to go depower?
I am expecting you have learned your basics on a smaller kite?

John Holgate - 15-4-2011 at 06:10 PM

Yes, I'd have to agree - the cost of a 7m Twister or similar plus $200 for the bar and you could have a 10m Apex III or similar. You could probably pick up a s/h 9-10m depower cheaper again.

mougl - 15-4-2011 at 06:14 PM

I went thru the exact same thing bro, but a good used depower like a montana or even a decent flysurfer.

You'll spend about the same, if not less, and have a MUCH better set up! :D

bradg - 16-4-2011 at 08:52 AM

Thanks for all the info guys. I got such a great deal on both the kite and the bar that I don't think I could even get a used de-power for what I paid. This will be my last FB kite! Gonna save my pennies and hopefully get a Matrix or Montana next year. This hobby is like freaking crack! Addicting and EXPENSIVE!!!

Bladerunner - 16-4-2011 at 09:27 AM

You never mentioned the size?

I found that my larger kites were more likely to work on a crossover bar . The smaller and the lighter the wind , the more they acted up. I only ever fly a Twistrer 7.7 on a stock bar and it was awfull.

To get the MOST out of your Twister I suggest you buy a set of handles ! They are designed to perform best on handles.

bradg - 19-4-2011 at 08:47 PM

To Bladerunner it's a 5.6. All I have flown is handles. Just wanted to work on a bar to get somewhat use to it because when I go de-power I have no other choice. The crossover bar should be a lot better than the Peter Lynn bar. I have heard it not only performs better on bigger kites, but also on the higher end of the wind range.

Bladerunner - 20-4-2011 at 03:39 PM

Actually you can learn a LOT more about moving to depower by hooking in and treating your FB and handles like a depower and bar.

You will get used to feeling the power from the front lines fed into your core. By holding the handles out and doing only brake turns you will be immititating pulling on one side of a bar. Applying both brakes will act a bit like Pushing and pulling the bar in and out. Do this and think about how you fly on the front ( through your core ) and turn on the back. ( with the bar ) . Having that all figured out and feeling what it's all about is so much more important than how you hold on to a bar.

Going to a bar is stepping back to simply turning the kite? Trust me on this one. I thought I wanted to fly FB on a bar. Once I understood how to fly better I see how I was waisting time and money. It's not like everybody wasn't trying to tell ME this at one time ! :Ange09:

bradg - 20-4-2011 at 03:59 PM

That makes a lot of sense! I have only been flying smaller 3 and 4 meter kites until now. I have paid my dues with them putting a ton of hours in and flying in all kinds of wind conditions. Thought I would go ahead and get the 5.6 before stepping to an even bigger more intimidating de-power. Your ideal sounds great! Just one question......how in the heck do you hook yourself into it with just handles? It sucks living in Kentucky because I am the only person I have ever seen with a power kite around here. That means all of my lessons come from videos, trial and error, and of course you guys. This also includes my kite purchasing since I'm assuming the nearest kite shop that will let you demo many different kites before buying is probably in Florida which is 14 hours away! Thanks again for the reply there Bladerunner and please let me know how to hook in with handles.

Bladerunner - 20-4-2011 at 04:17 PM

If you tie a strong rope from the loop at the back of your top handles . Climbing rope or amsteel are best. Something smooth.

If you buy a proper kitesurf harness it will have a " spreader hook " The hook is j shaped pointing out. You flop the rope up and in the spreader. Search kitesurf harness or similar to see one.

Once you are comfortable being hooked in hold the handles so they look like a straight bar and play like I said.

FIRST go to www.coastalwindsports.com and read the tutorials then go go www.kitesurfingscholl.org to continue learning.

Never be afraid to ask us stuff. Helping folks stuck on their own is one thing this forum does well !

mougl - 20-4-2011 at 04:17 PM

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=17554&p...

some good stuff there on strop lines (thats how u hook in with handles)

reading this thread reminds me of when i got into this...first kite was a 5.6 and thought id save some money on depower. not the answer. totally different experience. going to depower was the best thing i ever did. I can hold down a lot more wind with a depower than i ever could with FB. Went from a twister II 5.6 to an apex II 10m and I was a LOT more comfortable with the 10m in the same wind conditions. Keep saving my friend, the jump to depower is WELL worth it!

mougl - 20-4-2011 at 04:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bladerunner


Never be afraid to ask us stuff. Helping folks stuck on their own is one thing this forum does well !


Hes not kidding there! Had it not been for this forum, I'd have probably given this sport up long ago due to frustration. Either that or seriously injured myself.....maybe both...

bradg - 20-4-2011 at 04:37 PM

Thanks again guys! It's all very much appreciated!