Power Kite Forum - Whats a 6m Phantom worth???

Whats a 6m Phantom worth???

BrisKites - 17-4-2011 at 03:13 AM

Any ideas on what one of these is worth?????

ripsessionkites - 17-4-2011 at 03:17 AM

enough that if you put a number on it like 500.00 someone would buy it

probably like 300.00 is good

but if you're selling it ... i call dibs first

Kamikuza - 17-4-2011 at 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrisKites
Any ideas on what one of these is worth?????

My weight in gold around here :lol:

BrisKites - 17-4-2011 at 03:45 AM

$300 with bar and lines sounds a bit slender. These were $900 kite only back in the day

csa_deadon - 17-4-2011 at 04:04 AM

Not busting your chops. Just wanting to get that out of the way.

Yes the kite may have sold for $900.00 "Back in the Day." Unfortunately this is not "the Day"
Used kites are just that used. Just like a car devalues when you drive it off the car lot, the kite devalues when it falls in to your possession. I wish it wasn't true, god knows there have been numerous kites I have sold that I would have like to have charged top dollar for.

To be honest $500-$600 is probably the sweet spot.

bigkahuna - 17-4-2011 at 05:24 AM

Hey, I was PL dealer "back in the day".

In my opinion, more than $300 for a used (4+ year old) 6m kite is kind of steep. Peter Lynns aren't all that common so they do hold their value more than other kites, but at some point you have to say to yourself, how much more is it worth paying for what is, when you get down to it, a used kite (and an "old" design). I picked up a new Best Waroo 5m (last year's model on clearance) a while back for about $300. Flying qualities it's every bit as good a kite as a Phantom, probably better in some respects (ie. relaunchability). Durability has been pretty darn good as well (I'm still flying the same 4 year old Waroos and Bularoos that make up the rest of my quiver, no leaks, no damage). So it comes down to how bad you want to have this particular kite. If you have a load of cash and a hot spot for the kite, then it's probably worth what ever you pay for it.

Bladerunner - 17-4-2011 at 07:05 AM

Simply because the 6m Phatom has such a cult following on this forum you kind of have the upper hand here. You have certianly found your biggest market !

A few of us just payed $400 and $450 for new 18m and the 18m is far more common.

Supply and demand rules on this one !!!!!! I would suggest you just leave it open to the highest silent offer ?

I shall watch this thread for the feeding frenzy fun !

I think you will be pleased ? Best Wishes.:cool2:

How much will the 6m Phanny 2 be ? Still around $900 I suspect .

AD72 - 17-4-2011 at 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bladerunner
Supply and demand rules on this one !!!!!! I would suggest you just leave it open to the highest silent offer ?

Exactly. How do you define pricing? By what the market demands. Simple economics.

arkay - 17-4-2011 at 08:55 AM

New PL twinskins are _roughly_ 100$ per sq m (+/- ~$25/m depending on the size), used there seems to be a blanket 300-450 range with kite size being mostly irrelevant. While the phantom is a great kite, paying near retail for a used, older kite is kinda crazy epically with new models just around the corner that'll cost about the same. That said, there's a lot of crazy people out there :D

erratic winds - 17-4-2011 at 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by arkay
paying near retail for a used, older kite is kinda crazy epically with new models just around the corner that'll cost about the same. That said, there's a lot of crazy people out there :D

I can't agree strongly enough.

dylanj423 - 17-4-2011 at 12:13 PM

also... and in a more real sense... how much will you actually use the kite??

i got a great price on an 8m synergy about a year ago and i still havent been able to fly the darn thing... they need soooo much wind just to act right...

6m phanny must need about 30mph just to fly right, eh?

bigkahuna - 17-4-2011 at 12:50 PM

> 6m phanny must need about 30mph just to fly right, eh?

Never flew a 6m Phantom, so this is just hear-say, but when they first came out VOp recommended that they -not- be used for kiteboarding as they were very fast. I'll be interested to hear from someone who flew one, but I'd bet it would work fine in 15+ mph and possibly lower.

Oh, and for what it's worth, don't get me wrong about the Phantom price, I hope you get a ton of money for it. It's just that I see a lot of people with high expectations only to be disappointed later on.

cheezycheese - 17-4-2011 at 12:52 PM

They were being flown in 20-30 mph at WW this weekend.

BrisKites - 17-4-2011 at 01:58 PM

Thanks you blokes for the comments.
I never actually said it was worth $900 just that $300 was a bit cheap with bar and lines.
I'm most likely not even selling this little beasty but was interested in creating some discussion.

Here is my take-
The P2 is going to be a lower aspect kite (For what reason I don't know) so I see a continued need for the P1

No I don't think a Best Waroo doesn't have better flying qualities than the Phantom in the buggy, they are nothing alike. Actually in the water the 2010 Warro was absolute junk and now the dealers cant give them away. But the Phantom would only really be used on land anyway.

A big hello from OZ and anyone looking to travel over here we have our main events in Victoria during November and in Queensland during Easter.

Jas

bigkahuna - 17-4-2011 at 02:52 PM

>> No I don't think a Best Waroo doesn't have better flying qualities than the Phantom in the buggy, they are nothing alike. Actually in the water the 2010 Warro was absolute junk and now the dealers cant give them away. But the Phantom would only really be used on land anyway.

Flew PL's for years until I got tired of their complete lack of bottom end. Haven't flown the '10 Waroo, but have a quiver of '08 Waroos and Bularoos, and will say that they are every bit as stable in the air as any PL I've ever flown, much more power per square meter than any PL I've ever flown, and many times faster turning than any PL I've ever flown (comparable size flying in comparable wind). Having said all that, the only reason I'm looking to add a PL to my quiver is because I do miss their ease of self launch and landing, and that could come in handy when I kite by myself.

And tell those guys to send those '10 Waroos up here, I'll take 'em!

geokite - 17-4-2011 at 04:49 PM

Anyone talking about the value of turning speed of a LEI vs. an arc has no idea what the value of a 6m phantom is in the buggy.

Yes, a used kite! Yes, an old used kite! Yes, an old used kite that doesn't have much bottom end! Yes, an old used kite that is inefficient! Hurray for the inefficient kite in strong wind! The larger and less efficient the better!! No zippy kite wanted in the buggy when the wind is 30mph and you could sail with just your jacket open.

Yes, it would sell for what the market can bear (obviously...). I'd guess around $500-800.

This time of the year, at El Mirage (a dry lake bed in the Mojave desert of southern California), I would fly the 6m phantom about 1/2 of the time. Someone not as comfortable with so much power would fly it the other half.

bigkahuna - 17-4-2011 at 05:31 PM

Never said I knew anything about buggy kiting, nor did I argue how well a Phantom works on a buggy. What I take offense to was this statement, "Actually in the water the 2010 Warro was absolute junk and now the dealers cant give them away..." which happens to be a subject I do know something about. It would seem BrisKites has a beef with Best for some reason. My only experience with Best kites are the quiver I've been flying for nearly 4 years and can say without question I've gotten my money's worth and then some.

But back to the subject at hand, no doubt about it, there might be someone out there willing to pay list or even above list price for a 5 year old used kite. But is a 5 year old used kite worth that much? That's a matter of opinion and mine is an unequivocal no.

Too bad all you Phantom lovers weren't around 5 years ago, I would have been happy to sell you as many as you wanted!

Kamikuza - 17-4-2011 at 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrisKites
Thanks you blokes for the comments.
I never actually said it was worth $900 just that $300 was a bit cheap with bar and lines.

That's the problem, isn't it :lol:

"Oh the kite has no bar? I want $300 off the price. Oh you have a bar you can include? I'm not paying more than $100 for it!"

markite - 17-4-2011 at 09:50 PM

oh do I wade in on this hmmm - I'll try not to get on my soapbox here so it's all just my point of view....

Talking LEI and comparing any kites of different styles is just apples and oranges and so much is rider preference. When the Phantoms were out many of us loved them and traded to what was perceived as up as new twinskins came out. For use on water yes the newer kites were a move up - yes the Phantoms and a few generations after were not the best in low end grunt and turning speed but mid to high range and gusty conditions they were all good - buggy riding and especially high speed on a dry lake provides a whole separate set of skills and preferences.
Up until only a few years ago there was relatively a small number of arc users in buggies - even now at NABX it isn't even close to 10%. There was a bit of jumping on the band wagon going on and 6m and 9m Phantoms became the much sought after kites. A 6m in good shape will still fetch a good price. An older kite design doesn't necessarily mean a lesser design - just a different design from the direction they have gone. With a FB race foil or LEI the development and performance improvements follow the lighter/faster/easy launch/safety/power progression. Same with the Charger by comparison to the Phantom but you loose a few other benefits.
So bottom line - in good shape, those kites hold a lot of value to many people that use them and then there are a lot of others whop think they might be a good kite purely from the Phantom hype that re-emerged in the last 2 years. A buddy of mine ended up getting one from Sweden 2 years ago and paid over 400.00 k/o - well worth it to him and kite was in excellent shape - really a great deal as it was almost new.
Price on used kites has become all over the map - here in Ontario there are a number of team riders for various kite companies and some are sponsored etc on the water. Every year team rider kites are sold off and what happens is team riders get kites at reduced prices to begin with then sell a slightly used or near new kite below what they bought it for and don't think of the retail value. Then you have people that buy the same kites at retail locations and they use a kite very little and try to sell it but get beat up on the price because one good deal has come out and everyone uses that as a benchmark for every other kite for sale. For example guy buys at retail for 1000 + tax and spends (here in Ontario) 1300.00 total - team rider or whoever gets a kite for say 700.00. After a little while they both want to sell and take a little off the cost. If the guy that got a great deal to begin with says I got a kite in great shape for 600.00 then the guy that spent more is pressured to go to the same price because everyone says that's the going rate. Also has the spin off effect to retailers as people no longer are willing to pay the list price because they think the retail store has jacked the price.
So here you can get great deals on LEIs all over the place just because there is far more cycled through each season - not quite as many twinskins as there used to be. Even a few years ago lightly used twinskins had higher prices than they do today but the Phanny 6 and 9 are a classic - I'd suggest selling it the British way of house sales - excepting offers over ....? and see what you get.

Okay that was preachy - I do like a good deal too if I can find it and still slowly working the friends that have 9m phannies sitting unused for years here and will let you guys know if I pry them loose.

nocando - 18-4-2011 at 12:56 AM

More Tea Vicar

More Tea

BrisKites - 18-4-2011 at 05:42 AM

Sorry I didn't mean to bash Best kites. The older Waroos were OK kites but I still don't think much of the 2010

Jas

bigkahuna - 18-4-2011 at 06:20 AM

@Jas - If I'm not mistaken, the '10 Waroo was the first year they switched to a bow design (the 07 / 08 were SLE). I wasn't a big fan of that kite, but it certainly wasn't a piece of crap either. But perhaps tastes are different down under. The offer stands, if the dealers down there can't get rid of them, give 'em my address. I'll be more than happy to take 'em.

rocfighter - 19-4-2011 at 05:23 AM

OK I'm finally home and online. I saw this thread and I have decided to do the right thing.
I want to stop the tension and keep us all friends. I will step up and take this old, baggy, tent of a kite off your hands for $400.00 and every one will get along again:tumble:
Sound good?:Ange09:

Bladerunner - 19-4-2011 at 04:45 PM

BrisKites ,

I wonder what the folks at Seabreeze would have to say to this same question?

I think this Pantom Phenom' is sort of a PKF / North America thing? Does that sound right to you?

Kamikuza - 19-4-2011 at 06:45 PM

I'm not a big fan of Best either ... 90% of the exploding kites I've seen were best :o

bigkahuna - 20-4-2011 at 01:38 AM

"I'm not a big fan of Best either ... 90% of the exploding kites I've seen were best :o "

I used the Best quiver that I bought as an example. I'm not a fan of any particular brand either (and over the 11+ years I've been kitesurfing, I've probably owned at least one kite from every major manufacturer out there, foil or inflato). My point was that a if you keep your eye open you can get a very good deal on a "last years model" kite which will have zero mileage on it and likely last much longer and often have better performance than a 5 year old used kite. In my experience, there is no such thing as "typical wear and tear" on a kite. Some people take very good care of their kites and their kites last for what seems like forever, while others beat their kites to hell and the kite barely lasts a season. When you buy a used kite, you partly rely on the seller's honesty to accurately describe the kite's condition, but even then, there's no substitute for actually seeing and inspecting a used kite to judge its condition. The "good seller" thread and eBay ratings help, but even then you won't really know the kite's condition until you get it in your hands. In my opinion, this is worth considering when buying anything used and why I wouldn't pay more than $300 for a used 6m kite.

Again, as a former PL dealer and flier, I'm surprised by the following Phantoms seem to have here on this forum. You'd be hard pressed to find such a following anywhere else for the kites. They were a big improvement over the Guerilla and F-Arc (which they replaced), but not exactly a "revolutionary" design by any means, at least nobody seemed to think so 5 years ago.

It's great to see people take interest in and continue to use old Peter Lynn designs, but are they rare collectibles? Beyond the confines of this forum, I think not.

For what it's worth, I've also never had a kite "explode" on me, but have witnessed plenty of other people's kites which have (from all brands). In my experience (and with the rare exception of a manufacturer's defect) kites only explode if improperly inflated (inflatos) or roughly used / abused (inflatos or foils).

Again, the opinions I've voiced are my own based on my experiences with kites and kiters over the past 11+ years.

BrisKites - 20-4-2011 at 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bladerunner
BrisKites ,

I wonder what the folks at Seabreeze would have to say to this same question?

I think this Pantom Phenom' is sort of a PKF / North America thing? Does that sound right to you?

Not really. See my take on this is purely for land based traction and not kitesurfing. Personally I think only a desperate man would want to use a 6m Phantom in the water. As much as I love foils on the land I will stick to Pump up kites in the water unless it is under 7knt. Then the Flysurfer comes out :wee:

Kamikuza - 20-4-2011 at 05:58 AM

Yeah having said that about Best ... the guy who has them was at the lake again tonight - I think there's a problem with his kites and that problem is the bar/board interface :lol:

I still hate that stupid fish thing though

bigkahuna - 20-4-2011 at 06:24 AM

Quote:

I still hate that stupid fish thing though

No argument there.

phantom 6m

flyjump - 20-4-2011 at 06:47 AM

6 meters of cult status

Attachment: phantom (88kB)
This file has been downloaded 334 times

Drewculous - 21-4-2011 at 10:45 AM

So.... U selling it :lol:

Let me know if ya do!!!

flyjump - 21-4-2011 at 11:44 AM

i'll sell you todds for $200 :D

rocfighter - 21-4-2011 at 06:35 PM

Does Todd know?!!

flyjump - 21-4-2011 at 06:45 PM

Haha nope

action jackson - 21-4-2011 at 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BrisKites

Quote:

Originally posted by Bladerunner
BrisKites ,

Personally I think only a desperate man would want to use a 6m Phantom in the water.

I consider it an addiction, more than desperation! I,ve used the 6m phantom at least a dozen sessions on the water thru the yrs!Plus still have the fastest buggy speed with a phantom too!Its my little red sports car!:wee:........aj

Drewculous - 21-4-2011 at 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyjump
i'll sell you todds for $200 :D

...you're going to jibe right... So is a little envelope with $200... :ninja:

pbc - 22-4-2011 at 03:40 AM

My little envelope has $201 in it.

flyjump - 22-4-2011 at 04:42 AM

hahhahahah todd is going to kill me

Drewculous - 22-4-2011 at 03:19 PM

sorry for getting soooooo off topic... but....

Quote:

Originally posted by pbc
My little envelope has $201 in it.

the guy holding my envelope, *cough *cough, will kick your butt over it...
:ninja:

hows 2 envelops totaling $401 sound?
:lol:

I'm going to regret that if pbc is a certified bad-a$$
:lol:

flyjump - 22-4-2011 at 04:09 PM

Lol I'm going to regret this when Todd reads it. His red phantom is so rad. When that thing is rolled up it doesn't even look like a kite. It looks like a red and black umbrella. There's so much power in them though. I wonder how many were produced world wide since you rarely ever see them

pbc - 22-4-2011 at 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Drewculous

I'm going to regret that if pbc is a certified bad-a$$
:lol:

I'm not the violent type. OTOH, you'll never be able to prove it was me who stole your kites and knifed your tires.

I bet my daughter will like that little Apex of yours. ;-)

Todd - 24-4-2011 at 02:10 PM

A little fuel to the fire...

I hear that she's a real scream but not for sale nor hire :smilegrin:

http://www.vimeo.com/12658747

Seanny - 24-4-2011 at 02:21 PM

That's the thinnest kite I've ever seen!!! :o

arkay - 24-4-2011 at 03:28 PM

:singing:

Drewculous - 29-4-2011 at 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by arkay

:singing:

HA!!!

AWESOME!!

:lol:

back on topic tho: get me that phantom, ill give you the apex, tho i love it dearly, the 6m phanny will fill that spot nicely :smilegrin:

Todd - 29-4-2011 at 12:24 PM

:singing: Nothin' on you... ;-)

rocfighter - 29-4-2011 at 02:21 PM

Todd that was a sweat ride. But I hink you may be suffering from some delusional symptoms of infatuation with this kite. Now as most know this can be very dangerus. So I am willing to allow this kite to stay at my house while you get much needed thearepy.
I do this because I care. :P

erratic winds - 29-4-2011 at 07:27 PM

As you all know, I offer free storage of anything made of ripstop, colored red black and white!

I wonder if I'll ever grow tired of ogling real beaches.....