Power Kite Forum

Kahoona vs The Boss (vs alot of other things now)

Drewculous - 22-4-2011 at 06:34 AM

So the only kite shop in Nebraska (i think) carries Wainman kites.... i've heard good things about them on this board, and around the net... about the only downfall of the Wainman, that i've read, is there isnt an OBSCENE amout of pop and float.... more of a wave rider......

long story short... i contacted the kite shop here, and he seems very fond of the Best Kahoonas. He said he owns a bunch, and all of their lessons are done on them... he likes the Wainmans, but i got the vibe, he'd rather see me in a Kahoona....

With all the Best cracks ive read everywhere, and the pretty dismal resale market for them... If i go Best, should i skip the new, and buy used? or just skip Best all together, and go for the Wainman?

I need to give them both a fly and that may be the real determining factor... just didnt know if anyone on here had experience with both of these kites?

Thanks in advance!

bigkahuna - 22-4-2011 at 07:18 AM

Don't believe everything you hear, try it for yourself and then you be the judge. I've been flying the same quiver of Best kites (waroos and bularoos) for 4+ years now and can honesty say they are as good or better than any kite I've flown. I've not flown the Kahoona, but another fellow here does and he seems to like them.

tridude - 22-4-2011 at 07:26 AM

its delta v delta....couple kahoona fliers here are nice kites..............Griffin Argos are sweet kites as well (Aussie design) and are priced about 30 percent cheaper......................

Ill talk to Petre and see if he'll let me bring one oh his Kahoonas to JIBE. If so youll have them there side by side on Fri and Sat..........

manitoulinkiter1 - 22-4-2011 at 07:33 AM

Hey

I'm with BigKahoona I've personally owned Best kites and never had any problems. The were older Waroos though. I've flown Wainmans and they were good kites, lots of depower and super easy relaunch. They were my friends kites and he sold them because he didn't like the safety set up on the bar. He said it got hard to release after a couple of twists got in the lines.
I think the two kites will be very similar to each other because they are both similarly shaped delta kites.
I honestly don't think you'll go wrong with either brand. If you can try them both and if not go with the best deal.

John

burritobandit - 22-4-2011 at 08:03 AM

I've flown a Wainman boss and it was great. It turned quick, had no bridles, had very little bar pressure, had a ton of range, and relauched easy (deltas relaunch very easily). I didn't get to jump on it, though. There's a local that deals or reps Waiman and he loves 'em. He let me fly that Boss on the condition that 'if you break it, you buy it', so needless to say, I just mowed the lawn on it and didn't try any jumps or anything crazy. He sold a few Wainmans to his buddy and his buddy rode 'em for a while but ended up switching from Wainmans to Blade Triggers and had nothing but good things to say about the Blades.

I haven't flown a Kahoona yet, but I really want to. I've read good things about them, especially the V2. I would expect similar performance to the Wainmans since they are both deltas.

As far as the Best brand, I've got a TON of Best kites and haven't had any problems with them. I've flown my 2007 quiver of Waroos since 2008 and haven't had any problems. Kami will be here soon to tell you how they explode, eat your children, and cause cancer, but the 07s and 08s *I* have have been nothing but awesome. Maybe I got a good batch or something, I don't know.

With regards to exploding Best kites, Kami's comments do hold some weight. Their 2005 Hellfish was where that started. It was an all Cuben-Fiber kite whose canopy came apart at the seams. Then I read about a problem with some of the 2006 Waroos blowing up from having a single-stitched leading edge. This was remedied in 2007 with a triple-stitched seam. The only personal experience I have is that my buddy had an 07 Waroo blow the leading edge on him, but it wasn't on the seam- it was on the area of the leading edge that comes in contact with the ground when parked. He was sure it was from leaving it parked on a rocky surface for a long time (winds picked up and he went out on his 9m for the rest of the day). He sold me that Waroo CHEAP and I had it repaired almost immediately. That Waroo 13 was my go-to kite for almost 2 years until I bought my 2008 12m Nemesis HP late last year. Note: www.prokitesurf.com in Corpus Christi,TX does *very* good work.

As far as resale value, that could be a good thing or a bad thing. Wainmans have higher resale, which means you pay more money to buy, but also get more money back when you sell. Bests have a lower resale which means you can buy in cheap or will get less money when you sell. That's all up to you, your budget, and how long you plan to keep the kites. As far as initial purchase, I'd buy used either brand you go with to save money (again, that's just my personal preference).

You're very lucky to be in a spot that lets you demo both. Demo both back to back if you can and make your decision from there. Take your time with each session and take notes on all aspects of the kites: upwind ability, quickness of turning, lift, float, tuning options, relaunch, safety systems, etc. If you're buying new ask about the warranty terms/process in case you need support.

Good luck with your purchase and let us know how it goes!

Drewculous - 22-4-2011 at 02:16 PM

wow... slow day at work.... ive learned more about Best kites... wow
:lol:

so i'm torn...

Wainman v kahoona, toss up right? both deltas, both psuedo entry level.... i dont know, on price point alone i think im better off with the kahoona... but i start looking, and i think to myself... if i grab an entry level LEI, will i get a little bored with it when i want to grab some air, push some limits, ya know get a little crazy......... I want to get on the water, mainly because its, well, at least a little softer than the soccer field.... i want to boost some air, and not pucker so bad lol.......

so where to? I kinda want to support a local kite shop, so i'm leaning towards Best, but should i just get the kahoona, or wait out for the Taboo, or really go nuts and grab a Nemesis? I kinda think i may be past the Wainmans, just because i think i want to grab some mean air....

My main concern is that the Nemesis would kick my a$$ and turn me off from the water. Any of you wainman or best guys have any experience with the nemesis?



btw: Thanks for all the input! I REALLY appreciate ALL of the posts!!

bigkahuna - 22-4-2011 at 02:22 PM

I haven't flown any of those kites, but I have flown a Phantom 15 and currently fly a quiver of Waroos / Bularoos. If the Taboo is anything like my Waroo / Bularoos (they look similar so maybe they are) then it would be a big step up from the Phantom. What I really like about my quiver is how Peter Lynn-ish they fly. Very stable, very floaty jumps, but also much faster turning than either the Phantom or Venom. The Kahoona looks to be a different animal. I would try to get a demo first before buying. That should answer a lot of questions for you. I'm not entirely impressed by "bow" kites (waroos / bularoos are SLE's). The few that I've flown weren't as stable as I like, but I know lots of other folks who swear by them. Get a demo and then decide.

tridude - 22-4-2011 at 02:26 PM

higher aspect ratio, fast and boosty, relaunch not too bad......................bar is straight forward and fool proof..................if you can demo and like it even better..................agree with BK about what you read....................Ive seen OR and North kites bust wide open, Ive poped cells on PL and FSer, so if its meant to happen it will...................If you have a machine and skills, easy sew fix.................bladders are easy to repair/replace, and for cell walls thank goodness we have Phree and Powerzone

Drewculous - 22-4-2011 at 03:04 PM

Def trying the wainmans at jibe, def making a trip to the kite shop for the kahoonas.... Def going to try a few...

That nemesis just sounds fun lol

mougl - 22-4-2011 at 03:16 PM

Cheating on the P15 are you? :ninja:

Drewculous - 22-4-2011 at 03:23 PM

i cant loop my phantom.... let me rephrase that... i'm to much of a wuss to take it out in winds that would allow me to loop it.... lmao forget the glider, lets go loop a 15m phantom :lol:

my guess about 30mph winds minimum, i'll need about 40 vertical feet to nail the loop, and oh, 100' downwind.... cakes on the soccer field :rolleyes:

tridude - 22-4-2011 at 03:33 PM

well you can def loop the Boss and the 9m Smoke is easily double looped............................

Drewculous - 22-4-2011 at 03:34 PM

:mad:

Jibe isnt coming fast enough! aghh!!

tridude - 22-4-2011 at 03:53 PM

to add more choices to the mix try my 13m EH Ovando @ JIBE.....................google Ovandos, pretty wild kites!!

Drewculous - 22-4-2011 at 04:07 PM

I don't know if I qualify as "expert only"
Lol

tridude - 22-4-2011 at 04:34 PM

its not that bad, just perfers rear line tension (bar in) ..................................

bigkahuna - 22-4-2011 at 04:48 PM

Your Phantom 15 is definitely kite-loop-able. I didn't used to think so, but then I loaned mine to a friend (Jaime Herraiz the North Pro kiter) while I still was living in Hawaii and he kite looped that thing like it was nothing. So it's definitely do-able, although I never looped one. ;)

Drewculous - 22-4-2011 at 05:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bigkahuna
Your Phantom 15 is definitely kite-loop-able. I didn't used to think so, but then I loaned mine to a friend (Jaime Herraiz the North Pro kiter) while I still was living in Hawaii and he kite looped that thing like it was nothing. So it's definitely do-able, although I never looped one. ;)


on the water?

i may have some bigger juevos there, lol but not on my fields lmao!

Get some video tho, that'd be an epic jump!

DenisLaMenace - 22-4-2011 at 05:44 PM

you goota try the wainman by yourself

A fee weeks ago I tried the somke 9m on snow in 20+ knots. I just loved the kite, turn so fast, simple bridle, it pops high fast so easily

2 weeks ago I tried the Big Mama on water. I never had a 15m that turns so fats. this kite is unbeivable. Yes in light winds it does go upwind as well but it's not so bad. This kite has real auto-relaunch and has great pop too. hangtime is average.

Wainman kites are fast. They are not considered as beginner kites. Anyway now kite designers have proven that lift/hangtime and other performance aspects are not just a factor of aspect ratio.

After trying the 15m, I just placed an order for the 9m, and 12m. should get them next week. the 15m will follow later this summer.

as for the safety, there is a MOD for the wainman bar that makes the kite flags on the front line by the full line length. it is as safed as an Ozone.

bigkahuna - 22-4-2011 at 05:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Drewculous
Quote:
Originally posted by bigkahuna
Your Phantom 15 is definitely kite-loop-able. I didn't used to think so, but then I loaned mine to a friend (Jaime Herraiz the North Pro kiter) while I still was living in Hawaii and he kite looped that thing like it was nothing. So it's definitely do-able, although I never looped one. ;)


on the water?

i may have some bigger juevos there, lol but not on my fields lmao!

Get some video tho, that'd be an epic jump!


Actually, it might have been a Phantom 18 he kitelooped, I can't remember exactly, it was a long time ago, but yeah, it was on the water. We were at Mokuleia, Oahu and he was telling me how he'd never flown a foil before so I handed him my kite. Sorry, no video, and if I had one I don't think Jaime's boss (North Kiteboarding) would appreciate it if I showed it to anyone. Sponsors are funny that way. ;)

burritobandit - 22-4-2011 at 07:44 PM

I can also vouch for that Wainman Big Mama. The local dude who reps 'em goes out on that thing and it turns really fast for its size and has a ton of range. He had it take a dip in the water, and relaunch looked absolutely effortless. He doesn't jump on it though, so I can't comment on boost/hangtime.

I can also vouch for the Nemesis HP. They are higher aspect, so they go upwind easy, boost big, and float you down. The leading edge is also very thin, which helps it move fast across the window, and go upwind more efficiently. If you're concerned about turning speed, the ABC tuning option really works. It lets you tune the turning speed of the kite by reconfiguring the attachment points of the rear bridles to the wingtips. AA is the fastest and boostiest, putting all the tension on the rear of the wingtip. CC is the slowest, putting the tension further forward on the wingtip and causing the steering input to be much less. Some might like that setting for unhooking so that the kite stays put in the window while throwing an unhooked trick. AB, AB, BB, CB are the middle points. I tried all settings during a coastal session when I first got my 12m Nemi, and AA is definitely what the kite is meant for, imo ;)

If you get the opportunity to fly the 2011 Nemesis HP V3 and/or Taboo, go for it. They are supposed to be really great kites.

You're lucky to have a local kite shop.. Here in Austin, we have to drive to 3hrs to Galveston or Corpus and 5hrs to SPI to demo anything :/ Demo as many makes & models as you can!

Kamikuza - 22-4-2011 at 08:03 PM

If you're anything like me - on the water, you'll be trying to jump as high as you possibly can as soon as you figure out how :D I'm having a great time with my Crossbows - good soft landings :D

tridude - 22-4-2011 at 08:06 PM

theyre not making it any easier for you Drew or are they? BB and Denis aka Buzz dont thro out praise like thaqt unles warrented. Rip would also concur but had to sell his quiver due to his position with Peter Lynn. I think he has a few left. I got one of his two remainng 9s but i thin he has one left and a 15m Big Moma............

Ive never flown the Kahoonas but flown along side them and they are nice with great low end, go/stay upwind, and are built nicely. Ill have the 12 and 9 Wainmans @ JIBE, the Ovando, and the SS Rev 2, all available.............:smilegrin::lol::duh:

Kamikuza - 22-4-2011 at 08:12 PM

Gah if I'd known you were flicking on the 9m we could have traded for the P3! I'm keen to try a Wainman and need a nukin' wind kite ...

tridude - 22-4-2011 at 08:19 PM

Kami,

I believe Rip has one 9m left.............he said mine was flown but it wasnt (too many Redbulls:D:lol::duh:)

Kamikuza - 22-4-2011 at 08:22 PM

I just bought another Crossbow to fit the slot though :(

tridude - 22-4-2011 at 08:34 PM

thatll work too

Drewculous - 22-4-2011 at 09:18 PM

Lol, you guys are awesome! Thanks for all the input.... Getting filed and sorted... Man, I'm going to demo a ****load of kites this year... gotta keep good notes :lol: