Power Kite Forum

Yet another noob thread with questions (only 2 easy ones!)

mbreslin - 30-6-2011 at 07:51 PM

Alright, My first thread/post here. My questions are quite simple I think as I've read an awful lot of posts here.



Given the above I have whittled my choice down to the HQ Beamer V 3.0m.

The only hitch in my plan is that there is an ozone flow 3m in the for sale forum for a decent price.

Sorry that was long winded but now my two questions:
What do you think of my first kite selection is it alright or would you suggest something else? And secondly, is the flow comparable enough to a beamer to make it worth getting a used kite over new?

Thanks!

g00fba11 - 30-6-2011 at 08:06 PM

I am about your same weight. I started on a 2m which was to small and then jumped to a 5m which was a bit big for my skill set when I started.

A 3.8 meter Peter Lynn Viper might be just the ticket. I love my Vipers. They are very stable and easy to fly. They are also a blast to fly.

I didn't mean to muddy the waters, but I thought I would toss out there my experience when I was new. When I fly static I grab a Viper it is just a blast to fly. If you are only going to static fly you may consider the 2.6m Viper. You can spin that one on a dime. It is quick, agile and very stable.

Viper's are also very easy to learn on and a bit more exciting to fly.... my opinion..... than the Beamer or Flow.

That being said, if you are looking at the Flow listed by Chudalicious you can't go wrong grabbing that kite. You probably won't be able to tell the difference between it and a new kite. Beamers are great kites too......

macboy - 30-6-2011 at 08:09 PM

Good calls either way in my books. And don't be so fast to rule out any sort of traction activity. Those are the kinda words that are often eaten. I ate, "nah, kite buggy would be quite impractical for me." :)

mbreslin - 30-6-2011 at 08:46 PM

g00fba11:

Per all the first kite recommendations here I chose a 3m for my first kite. Are you saying that the 3.8 won't be too big to learn with in 8-10mph winds?

Thanks.

g00fba11 - 30-6-2011 at 09:18 PM

At 200 pounds myself and having flown the 2 kites you are looking at I really think the 3.8m Viper would be a good size. It builds power smoothly and to me is more than just a buggy engine. To me it lends itself much more to brake input for controlling the kite allowing you to progress faster with your flying skills. I think the Viper is much overlooked kite as a beginner kite and is thought of as only a buggy engine.

This past Sunday we had good steady winds at 10mph and my 15 year old son was flying my 6.8m Viper and he weighs in at 100 pounds. Of course he has been flying for a while now and was up to give his ATB a go, but he handled the kite well.

Don't get me wrong. The Beamer and the Flow are great kites.

In my experience with these 3 kites I would say the Flows and the Beamers would have more grunt. The Vipers fly faster with a more tame build up of power.

A side note. If you do decide to get into a buggy all 3 kites will make a great buggy engine.

Ping Dino at Dakitez.com or Angus at Coastal Wind Sports. I also know there are several other great vendors here that can also give you some great info on the Viper.

mbreslin - 30-6-2011 at 09:29 PM

Thanks for your response. If 3.8 is a good size for my weight and I'm already over 300$ that sort of makes me want to say wth and go for the blade 4m. Would it be too hard to learn with that?

Thanks.

John Holgate - 1-7-2011 at 04:33 AM

Still think the 3m is the best way to start for static flying. On the beach where the scudding is easy you can go bigger. If you can pick up a s/h 3m - say, Chuddy's Flow, it would be an ideal starting point and if you keep it in good nic, you'll get most of your money back should you sell it. I like my Flow enough to hang on to it, even though I have a few other kites that do the same job.

Not much difference between the Flow v Beamer. Flow is a tad faster, a little less stable - it occasionally luffs in inland gusty wind when buggying compared to the Beamer. On the beach I feel the Flow sits a little further forward in the window and absorbs gusts better. Static flying, half a dozen of one and six of the other!!

Hornet, Imp, Rage, Buster, Z1 - all good with very subtle differences. You'd have a good kite with any of 'em. 2.3m/3m Method would be nice and zippy too - probably similar to the Viper.

Pulsar - 1-7-2011 at 04:43 AM

8-10 mph is pretty low winds and you're not too lightweight, so the 3.8 should be a good size. A Viper has very nice steering, is a bit faster then most beginners, and has little lift. Perfect for static kiting as well as horizontal traction kiting at low speeds.

Don't take a Blade. They're awesome in experienced hands, but they're about the worst choice for learning. You don't take driving lessons in a Ferrari either. Or in a bulldozer for that matter.

g00fba11 - 1-7-2011 at 05:42 AM

There is a couple of new 1st Gen Vipers for sale on the forum. I think it is kite only though. They are the 2 smaller sizes. My Vipers are 1st Gen and I love them. I have not flown the new Viper S.

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=18337

Here would be a very reasonable 2 kite combo. You could then contact one of the vendors for a reasonable set of handles and lines. I think you could grab a set of HQ handles and some Vector lines from Dino at Dakitez or Angus at Coastal Wind Sports for about $90 bucks. With this set up you would have a very nice wind range covered.

Several other great vendors here also..... Kent at awindofchange, Jeff at bigkidkites, Mike at bigmikekites, shehatesmyhobbies at east coast, just to name a few more..... all super guys.......

Also Dino at Dakitez has a couple of 1st Gen 2.6m Vipers left in stock at a very good price. These are super zippy fun kites to fly. Spin them loop them. What ever. http://www.dakitez.com/servlet/the-436/Viper-2.6m/Detail

Not to beat a dead horse, but as a fellow 200 pounder in the wind you describe I think the Viper is the way to go.

acampbell - 1-7-2011 at 06:12 AM

All good choices here except for the Blade, which can be a violent kite.
The Viper id designed as a buggy engine, inasmuch as it is designed to develop power flying fast down low in the window rather than develop a lot of lift overhead. None of this precludes it from being a great static flier, though. Zippy and fun. If you do wand overhead grunt, consider a Twister, which is lifty overhead but smoother and more predictable than a Blade.
Beamer is still a great choice as an all-around kite. In it's latest iteration in the V series, it has evolved into a pretty sophisticated kite that will appeal to intermediate as well as entry level fliers, so it will be something you can grow in to a for a while. Notice that you don't see a lot of Beamers on the used market, as people tend to hold on to them.

And yeah, 3m is a good size to start with. Huge usable wind range give you a lot of bang for your buck.

Good luck and have fun.

mbreslin - 1-7-2011 at 08:59 AM

Ok thanks for all your responses guys, I've decided on the 3.8m Viper S. I would grab the one in the sale forum but for 40$ more I'll get an extra generation and the color I really want (blue).

Thanks so much, now I just have to get it past the boss. :)

g00fba11 - 1-7-2011 at 02:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by acampbell

The Viper id designed as a buggy engine, inasmuch as it is designed to develop power flying fast down low in the window rather than develop a lot of lift overhead. None of this precludes it from being a great static flier, though. Zippy and fun.
Good luck and have fun.



As Angus states above the Viper is designed to fly low in the window. I think this is why I like to fly it statically so much. It is fast and zippy and is just a blast to send back and forth across the wind window. You can turn it up and turn it down, loop it, spin it.... lots of fun.... nuff said.....

You are going to have a blast with this kite. Great choice.

Welcome to the addiction.........

mbreslin - 1-7-2011 at 05:27 PM

So at the risk of being branded yet another indecisive noobie on this forum, after corresponding with mike from big mike's kites via email I decided on the Twister IIR 4.1m. It was his first kite and with my size and wind conditions he said it'll be fine.

Thanks again for all the help. I found power kites when I was looking for something to do when it was too windy to fly my rc airplanes. Off I go and can't wait to get started!

Bladerunner - 1-7-2011 at 05:58 PM

If you aren't out to have a kite that you use as an engine then going with a 4m over a 3m doesn't compute ?

You have effectively dropped the top end of your flying experience by about 5+ mph ? You haven't really gained any lower wind flying experience. You now have a slower turning kite when turning is 1/2 the fun flying static. You are choosing a lifty kite when you don't want lift ?

Of the 1st 2 choices I was going to suggest the Beamer. The Flow is an engine by design . The Beamer is designed to be stable and rewarding.

Even if you are sticking with Twister how is it you think a 4.1 will be more rewarding than the 3m to fly?

Big Mike was moving on to using his kite as an engine ? I get why he made the choice.

mbreslin - 1-7-2011 at 06:30 PM

Bladerunner:

Mainly because of the opportunity for some (albeit small) jumping, versus a kite meant purposefully for little to no lift. I didn't really want to get all the beginner shouldn't be thinking about jumping feedback so I never mentioned it.

I won't be ordering for two weeks so I imagine I'll change my mind 6 times between now and then.

Bladerunner - 1-7-2011 at 06:42 PM

Ha Ha!

You sound reasonable. You are no doubt aware that the 4.1 will lift you but that you must be ready to drop. I agree that if you want that bit of pop the Twister beats your original choices.
All good!

mbreslin - 1-7-2011 at 06:51 PM

I appreciate your comments, the scudding and the workout and a bit of jumping really appeals to me. What would you say a reasonable wind range for that kite? 5-15? 5-20?

Thanks.

g00fba11 - 1-7-2011 at 07:23 PM

This is sooo funny........ :lol: the truth comes out.......

The man is looking for the safe side of an adrenaline rush........ without going to crazy.....

I had pointed you towards the Viper because as bladerunner stated turning is half the fun of flying static and the Viper fits that bill. It is also not a lifty kite.

I get you for not wanting the lectures..... there are a ton of those out here for those wanting to jump right away......

Make sure you let us know what you end up with and how the first flights go...... safety gear..... nuff said.....

mbreslin - 1-7-2011 at 07:51 PM

"The man is looking for the safe side of an adrenaline rush........ without going to crazy....."

Exactly (and I know there is no real safe jumping). If I find I'm sitting out a lot due to too windy conditions I'll ask the boss for a 3m for my birthday (October).

Thanks and look forward to reporting my progress.

Pulsar - 2-7-2011 at 11:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mbreslin
What would you say a reasonable wind range for that kite? 5-15? 5-20?

Your first couple of times: 5-10 mph. After you get some experience: 5-15 mph. When you go for jumps (like early 2012) you can hold it up to 20 mph, but you'll only last 10 minutes before wanting to put it down to rest. When you did all that enough times not to make any mistakes anymore, you buy a harness and hook it to your Twister, flying it up to about 25 mph.

nocando - 3-7-2011 at 01:07 AM

Then you wil find you are so Peed off as your skills increase,

you will want to take it further and really up that heart rate.

Buy a bug, :eekdrull:

mbreslin - 5-7-2011 at 03:09 PM

Do skills from a two line carry over to quad? Mike has a deal on vibe's if you buy a quad line and I might pick one up. Probably either the 1.9 or 2.3. Though it never seems to get that windy here it might be nice to have something small when we go to the beach and it's a bit too windy for my beginner skills.

John Holgate - 6-7-2011 at 12:56 AM

Quote:

Do skills from a two line carry over to quad?


In short, yes. Flying a quad using the front lines is basically the same thing. However, not having the rear lines to help launch and land is a bit of a pain in the bum. I have a prism snapshot - lovely 2 line foil but I almost never fly it anymore - unless I'm handing it to a family member :smilegrin:

If you're going to get a 4 line power kite and get into it, I think the 2 line simply will not hold your interest. Even if it's a good deal, I would still save the extra and put it towards your next 4 line. If you're getting a 4m Twister, then maybe a 2m Beamer or similar ?? - something you can hand to friends at the beach.

As for flying a Twister 4m in 25mph...... :shocked2::shocked2: Not this little black duck!

mbreslin - 6-7-2011 at 11:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by John Holgate

If you're going to get a 4 line power kite and get into it, I think the 2 line simply will not hold your interest.


Thanks, saved me a little cash.

ChrisH - 7-7-2011 at 12:36 AM

Go with the Viper like some of these guys have recommended, the Twister is too lifty for your first kite, in my opinion. For your winds I would also recommend the 3.9 instead of the 2.6. I get about the same average winds and the 3.9 is a blast. Start out slow, you'll get yourself hurt if you rush into things.

mbreslin - 15-7-2011 at 12:13 PM

Ok ready to order. I know we indecisive noobs must annoy a lot of you, sorry about that. One final question, would a Flexifoil Rage be any better than the viper for static flying?

Thanks.

indigo_wolf - 15-7-2011 at 01:24 PM

Can't compare it to the Viper, but the Rage is a medium aspect ratio kite with some nice grunt. 2.5m or 3.5m would be a good kite to start on.

Seriously, if you are really indecisive about what to get the best thing to do might be to hook up with Dino at www.dakitez.com. He is only about an hour North of you and depending on what he currently has in his demo fleet, he might be able to let you try a couple of kites so you more comfortable making a final decision. Can talk about first kites all day, but it's easier with a frame of reference and something to compare different kites with.

ATB,
Sam

mbreslin - 15-7-2011 at 01:55 PM

Yeah I talked to Dino but they won't be in the store on the days I can make the drive. Also I didn't really want to go back on my word as I told Mike from bigmikes I would be ordering today. I was just having last second jitters because I saw some videos of the rage and it looked pretty fast.

I have now ORDERED the Viper S 3.9m so you guys won't have to deal with me changing my mind every 5 minutes anymore.

(at least until it's time for a second kite :))

Thanks for everyone's help on my thread, can't wait for my kite!

mbreslin - 22-7-2011 at 03:58 PM

Kite came today! Will be flying in a couple hours. Bigger than I thought it would be (I've never been in a kite shop).

Wind is the usual sporadic 5-10mph hopefully will be constant for awhile so I can get a bit of flying in.

I don't know if these questions will get answered by the time I go fly but worth a shot. The lines come 2 each on winders do you guys recommend doing the same when packing up? Untying the larks head etc? I have seen the sock method and people keeping the handles and kite attached to the lines and so on so not really sure if there is a consensus?

Thanks!

P.S. To Mike from bigmikeskites.com, you answered my questions within minutes and shipped promptly, thanks!

tridude - 22-7-2011 at 04:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mbreslin
Yeah I talked to Dino but they won't be in the store on the days I can make the drive. Also I didn't really want to go back on my word as I told Mike from bigmikes I would be ordering today. I was just having last second jitters because I saw some videos of the rage and it looked pretty fast.

I have now ORDERED the Viper S 3.9m so you guys won't have to deal with me changing my mind every 5 minutes anymore.

(at least until it's time for a second kite :))

Thanks for everyone's help on my thread, can't wait for my kite!


no problem.....................welcome to the madness

Looking_Up - 22-7-2011 at 07:22 PM

Hope you had fun tell us all about it
the lines should be removed (in my opinion) every time until you really know that kite inside and out plus this will help you keep them untangled and get walking the lines in your preflite like it is second nature also one set of the lines may be stronger than the others they will also apear thicker these are your power lines and the other are the brakes the power lines go to the top bridle lines red is always on the left this is very very important the brake lines go on the bottom. You will not need to wind them seperatly but i would suggest taking them of of the handles and kite between outings
get a kite stake for your brakes a screw driver will work
attach the power lines to the top of the handles this is the part on the shorter side of the angle
when launching make absolutly sure you keep all pressure of the brakes or your day will be ruff

g00fba11 - 22-7-2011 at 08:01 PM

Let us know how that first flight went......

I like to parapack my foils. Here's how. Lot's of other ways also. There's a neat video out there that has you put a sock over your handles and then figure 8 your lines. I have been meaning to try that method also.



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