Power Kite Forum

Beginner kite selection and advice

mbieweng - 9-8-2011 at 02:46 PM

Hi all... I'm new to the forum and the sport. I was hoping to get a little advice.

I'm a skier and I live in the Chicago area....and that's not a good place to live if you want to ski. My main goal is to do some kite skiing this winter as a way of keeping my sanity in this vast expanse of flat land. I'd also be happy just to fool around with the kite in the summer and maybe do some kiteboarding or other kite sports in the future.

The goals are:

-Snowkite this winter
-Have some fun and learning flying a trainer kite around this summer
-Maybe, possibly, get into (water) kiteboarding or possibly some other kite sport at some undetermined time in the future.

Here's some info about me:

-I'm about 5'10", 155 lb
-I've owned (small, non traction) stunt kites forever. I can fly them decently.
-I've owned various sailboats (a 30-footer, small boats with trapeze setups, etc) over the years and I often sailed by myself. I think I have decent wind/sail sense and I'm reasonably competent at dealing with big pieces of fabric in the wind and ropes that can slice and mangle you (and other people).
-I flew airplanes for a while. I think I'm fairly smart about wind/weather/aerodynamics/risk management/etc.
-I'm a decent skiier (blues and blacks out west, but no double blacks). I can get by ok on water skis.
-I have little experience at board sports and pretty much suck at them. Not a skater. Snowboarded once. Windsurfed once. Results were not particularly impressive. Maybe I'd get better with some practice. Maybe not.
-Haven't killed myself yet. :-)

So, my current plan is to get a trainer kite that I hope could also get me started snowkiting. I'd fly the trainer kite (starting on low wind days) now in the summer, and add my ski gear in the winter.

I'd like to keep the budget relatively low to start, but I'm willing to pay a little more for something that would be better, more useful, etc. If all goes well, I'm willing to spend more money later.

I'm looking at kites like these:

-HQ Rush IV Pro (3.0m or 3.5)
-HQ Hydra (3.0 or 3.5)
-Prism Tensor (3.1 or 4.2)
-HQ Scout (3.0 or 4.0)

That leaves the questions:

1) Which kite? The hydra is water relaunchable. The tensor has the bar that splits into handles. Otherwise, they all seem about the same from what I can tell. Any others I should look at?

2) Which size? The general recommendation seems to be to get something 3m or smaller as a trainer. My hope is to get something that would be reasonable both as a trainer and as a starter snowkite. Would the 4.0m range make more sense for that? I don't have any great data on Chicago winds, but I'd guess they're usually 5-15 kt about 90% of the time.

3) Does beginning snowkiting without a harness/depower setup make sense? Will I end up with stretched-out gorilla arms after 15 minutes? Will some other disaster happen?

4) How does the overall plan sound? What else? Any other words of wisdom are welcome...

Thanks!

-Mike

shehatesmyhobbies - 9-8-2011 at 03:11 PM

Wow, you have done some major homework, and obviously read parts on this forum already. You are definitely looking in the right direction as far as kite choice.

3m or 4m kite range is about right given your experience in at least flying stunt kites, you already have the idea of wind window, control, and range.

snowspider - 9-8-2011 at 03:47 PM

Welcome to the forum. With out getting into a lot of explaination you've got a lot of the experience and understanding to jump right into a 5meter or 7meter depower foil. Starting out in light winds and methodicaly practicing in increasingly stronger winds you should be ready to fly this winter. A 5m will pull you on ice in most any wind , in high wind it will pull on hard pack , any soft cover and you will need blizzard wind. A 7m will be much more versatile but may still not be enough to power you thru soft snow that has any deapth to it, the strength of the wind will be a big factor. So if you will be flying on the lakes a 5m-7m will get you by , in open fields 7m or more will do it. You will need a harness to operate a depower , hooking to the harness is part of how they work. You've already got the basics of a trainer now you need to begin handling the power/pull. If you start looking at inflatables or Peter Lynn kites the sizing is completely different.

mbieweng - 9-8-2011 at 05:40 PM

Quote:

With out getting into a lot of explaination you've got a lot of the experience and understanding to jump right into a 5meter or 7meter depower foil. Starting out in light winds and methodicaly practicing in increasingly stronger winds you should be ready to fly this winter.


Ok, I will admit that I'm a gearhead and that's what I secretly wanted to hear :-)

So something like the smallest size Apex/Montana/Neo? I haven't done as much homework on those, mainly because all of the internet wisdom steered me towards the small trainers. The extra rigging doesn't really intimidate me and the ability to depower seems to make a lot of sense and inspire some confidence. On the other hand, the idea of being attached at the harness and having to fumble around a bit to completely "eject" when things go wrong does seem a little intimidating. If, for example, you let go of the bar and stay attached to the harness, how much "depowering" actually happens? Does most of the pull go away unless you have the bar pulled in? Is letting the depower bar out enough to put a stop to most chaotic situations?

What's the consensus? Quadruple my budget and go for the small depower then? :-) That's going to be a tough sell to others in my house, but I'll listen. :-)

The 3-4m trainers won't work for anything softer than hard ice? I don't need tons of speed (or altitude) to start.

g00fba11 - 9-8-2011 at 09:32 PM

I will let the more experienced guys chime in, but as a guy trying lots of different kites out on land and snow your goals made me think a bit of what I have been through.

Quote:
Originally posted by mbieweng

The goals are:

-Snowkite this winter
-Have some fun and learning flying a trainer kite around this summer
-Maybe, possibly, get into (water) kiteboarding or possibly some other kite sport at some undetermined time in the future.



I feel the training and snowkiting can be easily covered with one of the kites you have listed.... you also list that you want to be able to do some kitesurfing in the future.

The only one on your list I see as fitting the bill is the Neo....

I will let the others give their opinions since I am no expert and you are new to the sport but have some obvious applicable experiences, but I would also say you may want to take a look at a Flysurfer Unity, or a PL arc. Both kites can run land, snow, water....

I think the biggest issue you will run into is getting one kite that will be able to cover you for training, snow and water..... time for the experts to step in.....

On the Peter Lynn arc side of things you can find these on the used market at sometimes very good prices... you maybe able to start with 2 kites, and a bar/line/harness set up. You will be able to cover more wind range...... Is an arc the right kite for some one new...... I am sure the answers will follow........

Anyway you go I would check the used market in the PKF for sale section.......

Although.... in the end a FS Viron may be the ticket.....

IMHO......

Had to add an edit..... the point I didn't make is that I believe to cover all your goals including water you will need more than 1 kite. Grab a solid beginner that will cover you for training and snow..... add a depower that will work on water and snow.... work them both......

Looking_Up - 9-8-2011 at 09:34 PM

Thee is a 3 m flow on a turbo bar for sale in the for sale section it would be ideal and if your winter winds are 10 mph and up on flatland you will be able to ad skis without issue then once u learn to put the Kiting and skiing together spend the money on the right kite
trying to fill the gap now will only leave u out more cash and frustration
Plus if you are out and it starts howling you will always have this kite to get u home
The flow is also extremely well built

pyro22487 - 9-8-2011 at 10:04 PM

ozone makes a 5 meter flow that does nice for snow in like 15 to 20 winds. get it on a bar and its great. i tried last year but my wind was a little lacking but it was good in the gusts. i hear the turbo bar does real nice on the flows but i dont know. im not real big on depowers yet but i only have my 14 i dont get to use it to much.

a11an - 10-8-2011 at 12:35 AM

Ozone Access 6 m2 or HQ Apex III 7,5 m2 will be prefect for you. 3m2 tariners can't get you going on snow. Maybe downwind if you work hard but no fun riding a trainer "unhooked".

Bladerunner - 10-8-2011 at 06:47 AM

+ 1 for that 3m Flow if it's still up.

By learning on this kite it will serve as your very high wind kite later. Being so familiar with it will make it even better for those winds.
This will allow you to move to a depower kite of the right size for your average winds once you figure out what they are.

jaymzmn - 10-8-2011 at 07:00 AM

I'd stay away from depower - they wont allow for any fun static flying in the summer. I'd go with a 4m-5m Flow or Scout.

snowspider - 10-8-2011 at 11:15 AM

I'm located in Syracuse NY and I fly all winter in gusty winds and lake effect snow I'm guessing you will have similar conditions. Because I'm on a sled on local lakes I usualy fly a smaller kite down deep in the wind window, I will let the bar out to slow down or handle an overpowering gust, I'll pull it in at times for more speed or to to power thru snow. Guys on boards or skis in deap snow will fly some thing bigger higher in the window let the bar out to reduce the lift and power, pull in to gain lift and /or power. The bar gives you controll over power and lift , if things get out of controll , like your bassackwards and sideways or plowing the ground with your face , its time to eject.

Thanks

mbieweng - 17-8-2011 at 08:53 PM

Thanks everyone for the advice!