Power Kite Forum

My first pump is here

shaggs2riches - 22-8-2011 at 10:20 PM

Never thought I was gonna venture down this road, but I pumped my first, inflatable kite tonight. (Actually its my second, but the other only lasted 15 minutes before I gave up on it.) What a real nice looking kite it is....

2009 12m airush flow ft with a 2010 airush smart bar.


I read through every piece of literature that came with the kite, first thing I noticed is they put a lot of effort describing various terms, but there was no explanation on launch and land methods. Maybe its just a standard that most everyone kiteboarding with an lei should already know how to do that, but primarily using a foil, I don't. The internet has me quite aware of what to do already though. The bag is really big but kinda nice for what it does. Included with the kit is a pump with gauge. I thought I had it really full, but the meter showed only 5psi, when the recommended was 7psi. The kite came with an optional high depower bridle setup. Can't really find too much on how it affects the kites top end, or bottom end. I will have to fly it and compare in various winds.

One thing that I'm completely lost on is a mystery loop on the middle of each wingtip. It looks like an option attaching point for the rear bridle, but no luck finding anything in the manual. Any ideas from anyone here???????


My last concerns have to do with the one pump setup. First thing I wasn't sure of is use of the locks on each strut fill tube. Do you lock them each time you fly???? Or are they there for when you want to pack the kite away with the struts still full????

Lastly, when I was checking everything over, I noticed that where the strut fill tubes attach to the leading edge, there is a slow leak on every strut. Each tube is held in place by a small zip tie. Maybe an easy fix, but I'm not sure what to do here. The hose is not leaking, but it seems to not have a good seal. This is really my only gripe and being a brand new kite I find it odd to have to deal with fresh out of the bag. I won't take it out till I know that its not gonna leak. Any suggestion would be completely appreciated.


Like I said though I haven't had a chance to fly it though, just a setup in the back yard. More review to come. If anyone can help me with my few concerns I would really appreciate it.


thanks
shaggs

Kober - 22-8-2011 at 10:46 PM

CONGRATS on new kite ...... you will love kiteboarding ..... it dose not hurt when you fall...... not like on landboard ..... lol
loops ??? = self rescue handles ???

good lock and enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfrX8p7S5fs&list=FLSCWqSq...

shaggs2riches - 22-8-2011 at 11:11 PM

There are self rescue handles on the inside of the leading edge. Tis loop is really small for a leader attachment. Nothing points to it being used, its halfway between the rear connection, and front connection. They did away with a pulley that year so maybe that's where it was on older models. Not sure so I'll leave it alone. Any thoughts on the leaky one pump???? I'm gonna give using a second zip tie a try. Hopefully it works.

macboy - 22-8-2011 at 11:35 PM

My understanding of the one pump isolation locks on the struts are so that if you blow a bladder you only lose the one with the hole. The rest can keep things afloat to get you home. I leave them unlocked when I'm at the local spot where we're all waist deep and blowing dead onshore.

I had an under inflated rig out this summer - gets pretty rag-doll like when you dive the kite. It's amazing the difference between "hard" and "proper hard" pressures.

I can't wait to hear your thoughts once it flies for you. I love the foils, love the simplicity, non-pumping, unpack and go flying but the COMPLETE power dump you get by just sheeting the bar out on the LEIs is so nice - especially for my skills at present. I don't have any foils that give me that kind of "off" switch.

Kamikuza - 23-8-2011 at 02:49 AM

Lock the struts off when you ride - if there's a leak, you'll have compartmentalized it.
Proper inflation - you should be able to stand it on a tip and have it keep it's shape easily. You'll get used to it.
The high-depower bridle may be either a couple of pulleys or some other way of increasing the ratio between AoA and bar travel ... more safety rather than range probably.

Are you sure the tubes leak?

shaggs2riches - 23-8-2011 at 06:32 AM

In the bag came a set of pigtails that get added into the bridle. By the looks of it they extend a couple lines that will make the AoA change more with less sheeting at the bar, seems that a few people recommended it on a couple other forums. There aren't any holes causing the leak. The hoses look like they could be pushed up the connecting valve a bit and maybe have a second zip tie put in place behind the existing one. I was letting out one of the locks when I heard the hissing sound. If I roll back the black rubber a little bit the air leaks out a lot. I can get tons of zip ties from work so I'll give that a try first.

van - 23-8-2011 at 07:44 AM

Sounds like you just need to tighten the zip ties or get new ones. I had that problem with mine in the past. That's why I don't like one pump system. I much prefer the old school method of individual valves on each strut. It takes a couple minutes longer to pump but much more reliable and simple. Not sure why they have the attachment points near the wing tips. Normally , you have attachment points in the middle for your pump leash to keep your kite from flying away as you pump it up.

Kamikuza - 23-8-2011 at 08:25 AM

Sure it's not "leaking" through the tube between strut and LE, under the clip? My Crossbow 16 does that when you pump - LE inflates first then as pressure builds, "leaks" into the struts - gave me the willies the first time I heard it but it's normal.
You can replace those tubes pretty easy though ...

Y'know, it doesn't take that much longer to pump up - I inflated the Airush Lift 16 I sold to make sure it was all good, and I was surprised at how fast it pumped up. Or seemed to ... I seemed to whaling away on the pump at the LE of the one-pump Crossbow for hours before I even see the LE start to move :lol:

Mostly Harmless - 23-8-2011 at 02:58 PM

I would recommend closing each strut off after you pump up the kite each time. If the main bladder goes the last thing I want to deal with is my entire kite underwater, the struts will stay inflated and make it a lot easier to recover your gear. I had my "out" valve release during a session and it wasn't fun.

shaggs2riches - 23-8-2011 at 06:57 PM

Good points, I'll lock them off then. I forgot that I took a video when I was looking the kite over, so I uploaded it to youtube. I've got some UV resistant tie-wraps from work today, I'll replace the existing ones with those and add a second one for security. I figure that will be enough to solve the problem. Anyway here is a video of what I'm experiencing....

erratic winds - 23-8-2011 at 08:34 PM

Ok, the video makes it pretty clear, it looks like those were not seated fully and then zipped on. If it was my kite, I would find replacement zips of the same size, and then cut the old ones, fully seat the tubing, then re-zip-tie.

It's not both ends leaking, just the ones on the leading edge, right? Not where it connects to the spar?

Shame that it's a new kite giving you a bit of a headache, but this is thankfully a quick fix...and one that doesn't require a sewing machine!

shaggs2riches - 23-8-2011 at 08:58 PM

Ugh The questions continue.....

This kite came RTF with a 2010 Smart bar. Real nice looking and clean as far as I've seen. It can be a 4-line setup or a 5-line setup, but the 4 line setup is different from the 4line setup this kite was originally setup to fly as. On the original setup in the kites manual the kite flags out on one of the front lines, but on the newer 2010 setup when you release the safety, it pulls on both front lines. I'm nervous that this won't flag the kite safely, as my kite isn't designed to flag out this way. Any suggestions on this????? I really hope that this hassle is worth what I paid for this kite. Had I known it I would have held out for a newer model.

AD72 - 23-8-2011 at 09:20 PM

On the Ocean rodeo kites the strut tubes have black plastic hose clamps that work well. You can get them at mcmaster.com. You close the red cutoff after you pump up. this saved me a couple of weeks ago when my exhaust valve popped open and leading edge deflated. (Yeah I know Kami the Cabrinha screw valve is better). I need to do something about that.



See if you can rig the bar for single front line. Otherwise I would send an email to Airush and find what they say.

erratic winds - 23-8-2011 at 10:13 PM

Shagg-I would be trying to get help from the seller if possible as well as talking to airrush about the bar. It's good to be concerned with how well the safety will function! I am disappointed that you are having valve trouble on the new one.

Kamikuza - 23-8-2011 at 10:35 PM

What E.W. said I think - in the video, they don't look like they're on properly ...

Dunno about the safety - try it in light winds?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uok5Flmqufk
http://epikoo.com/kiteboarding/videos/airush-smart-bar-2010

Kamikuza - 23-8-2011 at 10:36 PM

Oops forgot to add ... looks like you could easily mod it with a ring to flag on one front line ... but you may not need to.

Oh and Airush is (or was) very good at keeping their old websites (and manuals!) online ... you should be able to find the 2009 and 2010 version of their sites.

Kamikuza - 23-8-2011 at 10:39 PM

There you are :)

http://2009.airush.com/
http://2009.airush.com/techsupport/manual/en/09KiteManual.pd...

Ohhh I recognize that bar - used a 15m Flow in Thailand. Hated the 2009 bar :lol: Leash to the end of the bar - seriously?

Kamikuza - 23-8-2011 at 10:49 PM

http://www.airush.com/2010/techsupport/Links_2010Manual/2010...

Looks like you could use the 5th line bits to mod up a single front line leash ...?

kitedelight - 24-8-2011 at 02:15 PM

nice, I got my first pump not too long ago either. Haven't been able to use it much yet but the amount of depower available is simply great.

Hope you get it sorted out soon.

shaggs2riches - 24-8-2011 at 08:39 PM

I called the company I bought it from and they insisted that the safety will work fine. The tech that I talked to told me to try it out on light winds at first and become familiar with it, then to take it out in a stronger winds, and then closer to the top end that I should be flying in (around 22mph max for me I'd expect). If it still dumps all the power at each strength of wind. I explained the posting off Airush Forum that I read explaining to never use the bar on kites older than 2010, but he still assured me that it will work safely. I'm gonna get that one pump all fixed up and give it a try this weekend as long as the wind sticks around.



edit: I was just going over my E-mail and got a reply when I messaged the dealer yesterday. I must have talked to a different person on the phone than this guy.

Quote:
For the safety to function properly you will need to clip the leash to the outside line flaging system. Feel free to give us a call at if you need any help.
Thanks!


To have to clip to the end of the bar for safety seems like a complete step backwards in every way. :mad:

Kamikuza - 24-8-2011 at 09:31 PM

Does to me too :lol: any chance you could send the kite back? That'd piss me off massively ...

shaggs2riches - 24-8-2011 at 10:01 PM

Yeah I'm not a happy camper about this at all. In fact it makes me more mad that had I not questioned it I might have thought that all was good. The other people who bought this setup are probably flying their kites as is without any knowledge of this. In one last attempt, I replied asking if there was a safe way to convert it over to having only one line flag out. I also asked if that didn't work, if I could just set the kite up to work with a fifth line, and how to do that. I can't find an answer online but with my limited knowledge I would think that a fifth would work. Except I would have to order the fifth line, which causes me more time not enjoying it.

kitedelight - 24-8-2011 at 10:06 PM

weird...that back line flagging looked available on the 2009 bar, but from the manual seemed to be missing on the 2010 bar.

found this on setting up a 5th line...not sure it's abundantly clear though
http://www.ikitesurf.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14698

AD72 - 24-8-2011 at 10:50 PM

Back line flagging on inflatos = no good. It will send the kite into a spin. Either single/both front line or 5th line is what you want.

PHREERIDER - 25-8-2011 at 08:11 AM

ok first thing , the leaks. the zips, if too tight they crush and kink the nipple.

the nipple(s) should be hard (NICE), a rigid material, if not, then an insert of some type my need to reinforce them. too slack ??they will easily pop off.

the bar, i have not looked at this specifically. but front line flag or center flag like a 5th line is what you want . rear line flag on a tube is tricky! calls for a deep window drop for it to work without flopping over, this is a heavy load drop and brutal on the gear and you esp. on land and unpredictable. bar end release are fine on some but are not really practical for a leash , more for unhooked and the kite is out of control with you holding one end of the bar still.

PHREERIDER - 25-8-2011 at 08:28 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXypKZ0euyY&feature=relat...

all seems tidy here. the Y front lines my be throwing off the idea of the ONE SIDE FLAG style. front line "bridles" that are close together and separated from the rear section of the kite behave alot like 5th line

the below the bar thing i would not use

hope this helps

kitedelight - 25-8-2011 at 11:06 AM

....looks like you're not the only one
http://www.airush.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10322

shaggs2riches - 25-8-2011 at 05:37 PM

I got a reply from the salesman today and I think I've got my solution.....

First e-mail he suggested that I could send the kite to them and for basically $100 they could retrofit a fifth line onto the kite/bar. My kite doesn't have hookups for fifth line, so some modification is necessary.


then later on he replied with this response which I liked more.

Hi Colton,



Quote:
Here are some options we can do for you.



#1. Switch out your Smart bar with a 2011 Ozone Contact Control Bar and lines. I would recommend the 50cm bar with the 25m lines. Even though the contact retails for $430 we can just do an even trade to get you the setup you want. The Flow is designed to fly on an even 4 lines so the Ozone bar and most other bars made for depowerable kites out there will work perfect with it. The Ozone bars are extremely well made and very clean spin-able setups. http://www.ozonekitesusa.com/proddetail.asp?prod=2011_ozone_... , http://www.flyozone.com/kitesurf/en/products/control-systems...



#2. We also have a 2011 12m Naish Park that we can sell for $1099 complete with bar/lines, or a 2012 Liquid Force Envy 12m complete with bar/lines for $1199.


I'm use to Ozone quality, and would rather not send the entire kite back and have to fork out the extra money for the other kite atm. So I'm gonna switch the bar out and hopefully be able to fly it in a couple weeks. Sucks to wait that long, but it is what it is.

erratic winds - 25-8-2011 at 05:57 PM

Glad to hear you got the bar sorted, hope you can get the onepump valves sorted as easily.

Kamikuza - 25-8-2011 at 06:05 PM

I'm not a huge fan of the Ozone safety release ... it's better than the FSer ones (which is why I swap them out) but it jams with sand easy and if you're like me and forget to let go the pull knob - the elastic breaks on it :(

Other option - keep your bar, use one of these - http://www.mutinykites.com/content/mutiny-swivel-0 ...? That'll let you flag out on one line without have to get too creative with the modding ...

I'd try flagging on the front lines first - you should be able to test in NO wind ...? When the safety is pulled, the difference between front and rear line should be greater than the chord of the kite, no?