Power Kite Forum - What buggies are you driving!

What buggies are you driving!

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Powerws - 26-8-2011 at 10:19 AM

Curious to know what buggies everyone is driving. I will be making a decision on purchasing one. Would like to know if one stands out, which one has flexibility to grow into, ect. Let me know what you think and why. Curious to know if the is one where the left rear wheel/axle has reverse threads, so it doesn't loosen up, ect. Thanks in advance.

markite - 26-8-2011 at 10:28 AM

curious that you ask about the reverse threads - I don't know of many people that have had wheels loosen but there are people who have had wheels fall off and videos posted here. You see broken bolts once in a while from aggressive riding but very rare a loose wheel from riding. Personally I've never had a wheel loosen except when I had only finger tighten bolts and forgot to tighten more. Some models will have longer axle bolts so they would need to loosen off more than an inch to fall off. And also there are a lot of axles that can be flipped on way or the other so what was left one day will be right another.

BeamerBob - 26-8-2011 at 10:30 AM

I've never had an axle bolt come loose that I installed. I've owned a number of buggies and never had one with reverse threads on the left. Proper torque to begin with and check them before you go out every time. You can also upgrade to a stub axle with a locknut and lessen your worries.

What do you want to do in your buggy or more specifically, how much are you willing to spend, how high do you want to jump and how fast do you want to go?

pyro22487 - 26-8-2011 at 11:09 AM

Libre v-max here. I recently bought a peterlynn buggy not sure of the type but i think my vmax is built better. VTT makes bugs. He is in TX. He is suppose to come to OK next weekend and let me demo one of his Black Widows. He makes another bug called a Cricket. The Black widow is a bigger buggy made for faster speed and the cricket is made for beginners and tricks. VTT is also on the forum His screen name is Van. As for the reverse threads comment I don't know of any company that makes one but as long as your bearings work there should be no need for it. Just make sure your tires spin before before putting your kite up. I have also sat in a libre Hardcore these bugs are beasts it weighed like 85LBs and was made for a very tall person but it is made for very high speeds and rough terrain. The back axel was made out of a thicker larger tube just to support this guys insanity I think.

awindofchange - 26-8-2011 at 12:00 PM

Ivanpah buggy for me. I also carry around a Peter Lynn Comp XR+ for riding in the park and freestyle.

The Ivanpah buggy comes with jam nuts installed on the inside of the buggy wheels that allow you to lock the bolt into the rear axle so it can not unscrew on you. You can also install jam nuts on the Peter Lynn buggies (and probably all other buggies too). Depending on the thickness of your jam nut, you may need to get a longer rear axle bolt. As mentioned you could also install some threaded studs into the rear axle and then use lock nuts on the outside to keep the rear axle from unscrewing. Both of these additions would be much cheaper and easier to replace if they got damaged than using a reverse threaded rear axle bolt. Trying to find a reverse thread 20mm x 110mm bolt would be very expensive and very difficult to find - probably only special order. Standard bolts are much easier to get and a lot less expensive if you need to replace one.

That being said, we have been using the PL comp buggies for over 12 years that I have been riding and have never had one unscrew unless the bearings have seized. As long as you keep your bearings in good condition and make sure the bolt is tight, it will not come out on you. When you tighten down your rear axle, it presses the inside race of the bearings tight against the internal wheel spacer into the rear axle boss, locking everything together tight. The only way it could come undone is with a warn or seized bearing. If you do use a jam nut and your bearings seize, it will twist the bearing in the wheel creating a ton of heat and will melt your wheel, damaging it beyond repair. Replacing bearings is a lot less money than replacing a wheel.

Hope that helps.

KYTE SLINGER - 26-8-2011 at 12:09 PM

only one that stands out

van - 26-8-2011 at 12:11 PM

++1 for the jam nut advice that Kent gives above. I use jam nuts on my buggies. They work great as long as you know how to tighten them correctly.

revpaul - 26-8-2011 at 12:30 PM

really depends on your typical terrain. i ride on a grass field but it is very very hard packed.
i was spoiled from the start and had a suspension equipped buggy (Peter Lynn [PL] Race).
i tried out my brother's regular PL buggy (no suspension) and nearly chipped my teeth from all the rattling about.
i then bought a Libre Supertruck II wich comes with BF (bigfoot) tires. My PL Race went to brother.
The Libre (no suspension),due to it's BF tires, is just as comfy as the PL Race.
*as I understand it BigFoot(BF) tires are/were meant for loose sand to help buggy from sinking/slowing. They do work real well on hard lumpy surface to smooth out the bumps.
At the same time as the Libre I bought a PL XR+ to use when I did not feel like bringing the big Libre. Long story short....thePL XR+ was recently sold in new/mint condition...I never used it. Always rode the comfy Libre.

macboy - 26-8-2011 at 12:32 PM

+1 for the stub axle and locknut. Never thought of that (but have often thought about why the threads aren't reversed). BB - how then do you lock in the stub axles (assuming I'm right thinking they just thread into the bolt hole like the other bolt would have but the allow you to put a crown nut on the outer end locking the wheel.

Of course, like most I've not heard much in the way of axe bolts spinning themselves out and I think, given the speed demons and freestylers here we'd have heard LOTS of complaints if it was a real grave concern.

Drewculous - 26-8-2011 at 12:41 PM

I have a beamer bob custom power buggy
:lol:

Its a flexi/peter lynn mash up.... I like it

Powerws - 26-8-2011 at 01:50 PM

Beamer, thanks for the response. Great on the stub axels, good to know. I'm an extreme sports athelete and love to be as extreme as I can. I've raced motocross where we jump our bikes 120 feet. I race mountain bikes, BMX ect. To answer your question first, Money doesn't really matter. I do like the best quality I can get. I want to eventually jump and act crazy. Love to go very fast, but have work up to it.

Powerws - 26-8-2011 at 02:30 PM

John at kite buggy speed shop recommended the LIBER VmaxII, due to its ability to add on big foots well as grow with the advancement of my abilities

revpaul - 26-8-2011 at 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Powerws
Beamer, thanks for the response. Great on the stub axels, good to know. I'm an extreme sports athelete and love to be as extreme as I can. I've raced motocross where we jump our bikes 120 feet. I race mountain bikes, BMX ect. To answer your question first, Money doesn't really matter. I do like the best quality I can get. I want to eventually jump and act crazy. Love to go very fast, but have work up to it.

jumping (freestyle) and going very fast is two different buggies.
jumping buggy is short, stout and beefy. fast buggy is beefy too but a long and wide stretched out ride.

DAKITEZ - 26-8-2011 at 03:02 PM

Extreme Apexx if you want the best!

Also you have the MG Aero and the ivanpah.

Freestyle buggy use to be the flexifoil scout but it is current not in production. The ultimate freestyle will be the Extreme Basixx but it is not in production yet, but its coming very soon.

mougl - 26-8-2011 at 05:19 PM

I have 2 buggies right now...

If you are just starting out, I like the XR+ by Peter Lynn. Versitile little buggy with lots of upgrades available. Best part about it is, it wont break the bank. You can get some respectable speed with it, as well as ground freestyle without doing any mods at all. If you want to mod it up, you could even jump with it. It breaks down for transport very quickly and easily, and goes back together just as quick and easy. It adjusts easily to fit just about any size rider, and can take a lot of punnishment.

I wouldn't jump right into a race buggy or a pure freestyle buggy right out of the gate. Start with an XR+ and work from there. :thumbup:

Powerws - 26-8-2011 at 06:06 PM

It would seem that a manufacturer would simply reverse the threads on the left side. It's all in the details! No worring about stub axles, lock nuts ect. No big deal to me, just thought I'd ask. Just suprises me. What do you think about the Sysmic Buggies. The S1 is a work of art. Anybody ride one?

Powerws - 26-8-2011 at 06:12 PM

Mougl, great advice! I think I would probably end up with a buggy, better for all around. I would think that would be a shorter buggy.

Powerws - 26-8-2011 at 06:17 PM

Awesome Rev. I heard that the LIBRE is the way to go. The fact is If I dont like it, try another one. It seems that you could always sell it and go different. I will check out the exxtreme's

greasehopper - 26-8-2011 at 07:20 PM

Just my experience but, never have axle bolts loosen up if I keep up with the bearings. If internal spacers get crushed, they can cause to poor bearing alignment and lead to seizing and plastic wheel/hub melt down.

I'm a fat arse @ 250# so bent axle bolts are common on 12mm axle setups just riding in rough terrain at moderate speeds. Hardened bolts merely strip the internal threads out of the axle bungs. There are a few high dollar 12mm ID annular contact and duplex bearings available that eliminate many problems but they are entirely cost prohibitive as standard quality bearings are "falling out of the sky" cheap in comparison and don't address the bendy bolt issues.

Bearing failures due to side loading are common in 15mm ID bearings as the load rating of common 32mm OD bearings is a bit lower than 12mm ID in the same OD.

I'm finding 20mm bearings with precisely machined and properly hardened spacers are holding up far better all the way around. However, there's a small price to pay in added weight of wheels and axle bolts.

Again, just my observations. Actual mileage may vary.

mougl - 26-8-2011 at 08:03 PM

The XR+ is shorter but it's adjustable. I'm 6' tall and I can stretch out nicely. You can also get an extended axle for the XR+. makes for better tracking and the use of much larger tires, up to Bigfoot tires. I use the wide axle mostly and run 18x9.5x8 tires on mine without issue. I find that I can achieve greater speeds that way. When I want to practice ground freestyle, I just throw the short axle on and the barrow tires and it's perfect. Libre, Xxtreme, Sysmic, VTT, and Ivanpah are all great buggies but I stand by the XR+ when it comes to bang for the buck when starting out. Once you have it down and are wanting more speed (given you have the kites and space for it) then I would go with Xxtreme. If freestyle is the road you prefer to travel, the XR+ will NOT let you down. Check out Brian Holgate videos on vimeo.com and you will see what I mean. Also, the axle bolts in the rear are 20mm. I have yet to see those break. Durable as the day is long, stainless steel so just a quick rinse after a beach session and you're good to go.

What do I ride? XR+ for cruising, Flexifoil for hardcore freestyle. Eventually I want to go Xxtreme Apexx for speed (yes, best race buggy on Earth) and Xxtreme Basixx for freestyle (thing looks like it's goin to be SICK!)

Just my 2 cents

jellis - 26-8-2011 at 08:10 PM

For the terrain in the USA Libre leads as the best buggy for all. No custom building required and more upgrade parts that you can count. If it is more money you want to spend I can accommodate by getting softer, flexible and shiny stainless. If it is durability then galvanize a good grade of steel then powder coat it and that is where you get a strong buggy at a reasonable weight and price.
I have sold Libre buggies since 1997 and have no one have their axle break and the rear tire fall off.
So which buggy is the best just ask another Libre buggy owner there are lots of them around.
MAJESTIC is in the wind.

RedSky - 26-8-2011 at 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by revpaul

i was spoiled from the start and had a suspension equipped buggy (Peter Lynn [PL] Race).

i then bought a Libre Supertruck II wich comes with BF (bigfoot) tires.

Snap!

My first bug was the PL race.

My second bug was the Libre Supertruck II. MASSIVE in comparison :D What a bug!

DAKITEZ - 26-8-2011 at 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jellis
For the terrain in the USA Libre leads as the best buggy for all.

That is the funniest thing I read all week!

This is the reason I love America .... freedom of speech ... People can say what ever they want and it doesn't have to have a bit of truth in it.

BeamerBob - 26-8-2011 at 09:48 PM

Libre seems to make a pretty good buggy. I tried to buy one back in spring of 2010 and couldn't get a price. It's good that multiple companies are out there innovating and putting new ideas and products on the market. That way its more likely that everyone can get most what they want for the money they are willing to pay.

Speaking of pushing innovation and performance, this era of the large diameter wheels is new and it's pushing equipment to new levels of stress not seen before. Those at the top of the game will adapt and learn from any equipment failure.

I'm not sure there is a "terrain for the US" is there? What does it look like? I've ridden in polo fields, soccer fields, sodfarms, corn fields, soft and hardpacked sandy beaches, and now live 35 minutes from Ivanpah dry lake. It's all pretty widespread from one extreme to the other. I've owned 7 buggies now and all of them had strengths and weaknesses.

RedSky - 26-8-2011 at 09:52 PM

You live 35 minutes from Ivanpah! :shocked2:...You lucky son of a .....

BeamerBob - 26-8-2011 at 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RedSky
You live 35 minutes from Ivanpah! :shocked2:...You lucky son of a .....

It was one of those gifts from heaven I guess. The company my wife works for bought another company that has a plant in Henderson, NV. This happened in 2008, the year I learned to buggy. I had no idea the stars were aligning to shine so brightly on me. Now here I am and its so bleeping hot, I can't go out there. Whole day off tomorrow and its supposed to be 117 out there. Cooler weather will come though and then its playtime!

AD72 - 27-8-2011 at 12:38 AM

Bobby I remember when you took my buggy for a spin and the back axle popped off!:wee::shocked2:
There are few that dare take a ride in the ST crunchmaster.

mougl - 27-8-2011 at 04:45 AM

If speed is what you need....Apexx (not recommended for starting out) to get the most out of this buggy you will need a LOT of space and some pretty powerful kites. Most pilots that ride the Apexx like to fly over powered. There are reasons for this.

If you want to freestyle...Flexifoil Scout (can't say I'd recommend this for starting out either) you sit a little higher and it would be easy to roll it.

If you want to spend a bunch on a buggy that will leave you wanting more speed or wanting to get something better for freestyle...Libre all the way.

I still vote XR+ great to learn on and does it all...

WELDNGOD - 27-8-2011 at 05:49 AM

do what several of us did..Build it yourself!
I built all of my buggies and tandem trailers too. Nothing like cruisin in something you built:wee:

csa_deadon - 27-8-2011 at 05:53 AM

Speed, freestyle, it all depends on what you want to do. No buggy is going to be the best at everything. It is just like the "Ford vs Chevy" argument (Apexx, Libre, MG, etc). Best advice, find some people who have buggies, ride them all and find the one that fits you best, and your riding style. Start with a lighter buggy to learn the basics. Then when you are ready (you'll know when) you will be able to move to a larger, heavier bug. The lighter PL's, and Flexi's hold their value, so you won't lose a lot in a sale.

Speed, and free style in a buggy is 90% pilot (to do it safely).

Besides I'm a cruiser not a speed freak, so that's why I drive a "Cadillac". KBSS Custom Libre Suspension Hard Core. It's like butta.

Bottom line find the one you will be the happiest with.

I would stay away from the Flex Foil buggies! :lol:

acampbell - 27-8-2011 at 06:34 AM

Late to the party here. Currently driving an Ivanpah and have a Flexifoil Scout for freestyle. light riding and teaching.

The Ivanpah is a like Lazy-Boy recliner on railroad tracks. Very stable once you get over the initial twitchiness due to the high amount of caster in the front fork (but feet off the peg and it tracks straight and true) Not easy to disassemble for transport, though so you will need an external rack or trailer. Very secure ride; the only way out of the seat is straight up or straight out the front over the fork.

FWIW, Flexifoil is bringing back the stanless line of buggies later in the year, but prices not yet announced. Figure higher than before, as they will be made again in East Europe (good quality, though).

Yes I have had axle bolts back out of a flexifoil bug, (left rear) but that was due to my own negligence. +1 for jamb nuts, though, no trouble with the Ivanpah. Reverse threads are no substitute for a rider's diligence.

Yeah "terrain in the USA" is pretty rough, ROTFLMAO!!! Must be the plovers.

Powerws - 27-8-2011 at 08:26 AM

CSA, I think this will best describe me. Just starting out, but will pick it up quick, I know! I want to be comfortable and I want to cruise! I do want a Benz too! I love the looks of the Sysmic but 3K, yikes!

BeamerBob - 27-8-2011 at 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AD72
Bobby I remember when you took my buggy for a spin and the back axle popped off!:wee::shocked2:
There are few that dare take a ride in the ST crunchmaster.

Yes, I remember that well. I had very little experience in a standard size buggy with the back tires right beside me. Tire rolled over a back line from the bar and suddenly I had a tiger by the tail. Thankfully no one nor your buggy was hurt in this experience!

bobalooie57 - 27-8-2011 at 08:41 AM

:puzzled: I don't know, but there are 2 PL buggy's for sale listed here(one new, one like new), which would enable 2 different style rides, at a combined cost of 1/2 the price of a Sysmic, just my thoughts, if I had the 1300+/- to get them both I'd already be doing the deal! :bigok: You could be riding tandem, or with a buddy/S/O!

csa_deadon - 27-8-2011 at 08:53 AM

my ride, desert set up.

225092_1822967825201_1570407362_31786204_2509513_n.jpg - 49kB

sunset-Jim - 27-8-2011 at 09:27 AM

As you can see, opinions are like @$$ holes, everybody has one. There are a lot of great buggies out there and it definitely depends on what kind of riding one is going to be doing. I agree with Sean's advice. Get with other riders and do some test driving and discussing what kind of riding you see yourself doing, keeping an open mind to the fact that it may change

It usually does. Forums are great but nothing beats first hand.

Morrie Williams - 27-8-2011 at 09:33 AM

My wife and I have been riding PL Comps since 1995 and PL Classics before that. We've transported them all over by air and on our camper (they fit side by side on the roof).

We're just cruiser, so they work great for us.

pyro22487 - 27-8-2011 at 09:34 AM

Couldn't have said it better myself sunset-jim.

Bladerunner - 27-8-2011 at 09:45 AM

I started on an early gerneration Flexi. It suited my need for a small, light, transportable buggy.
I have decided to take things more serious and have bought an Ivanpah.
Both of these serve me but in different ways.

If transport, location and cash don't hold you back + jumping is not in your future then you have choices like never before. For Freestyle it's still Flexi but Apexx is coming online.

One thing I decided was that a good buggy is going to serve me a lot more than a new race kite when it comes to getting speed!

AD72 - 27-8-2011 at 09:55 AM

Dino's Apexx and Flexiblade's Sherman buggy are great. Nice cruisers that can hold down a lot of kite. The last time I went to the beach in high wind my ST was just pulled sideways. The ST has been a great starter buggy and easy to transport. Plus it is an abdominal workout.

Powerws - 27-8-2011 at 10:33 AM

Mogul, With Apex, why would you not want to start out on this one. Just too hard to learn on? If so why, long wheel base ect??

DAKITEZ - 27-8-2011 at 10:52 AM

He just had a good obe and hit his head. He is still not thinking clearly :lol:

BeamerBob - 27-8-2011 at 12:03 PM

Even a beginner can benefit from a heavy well made buggy. The ability to extract all the benefits might not be there though. The security can be felt by all.

Bladerunner - 27-8-2011 at 12:45 PM

I can't see why a person couldn't / wouldn't start on an Apexx or similar type buggy from the start?

It is a mattter of knowing that your location will support it, and having a method of transporting it.

I am pretty sure I will get to use my Ivanpah buggy on less than 6 occasions each year. Our locations + my desire to ride other styles makes it that way. Still I think it was a good investment.

indigo_wolf - 27-8-2011 at 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bladerunner
I can't see why a person couldn't / wouldn't start on an Apexx or similar type buggy from the start?

It is a mattter of knowing that your location will support it, and having a method of transporting it.

Doesn't the second sentence kind of answer the first? Good investment? Maybe. However, if you are flying inland or limited to small fields.... it's sort of like owning a Koenigsegg Agera...

in a town made completely of heavily pot-holed two lane blacktop... with heavy radar coverage... and bored local constabulary who spend waaaaay too much time polishing their small fleet of "interceptors."

ATB,
Sam

jellis - 27-8-2011 at 06:35 PM

Sam you are being way to logical.:dunno:

mougl - 27-8-2011 at 07:21 PM

I'm not saying someone CAN'T start on an Apexx, I'm just saying I would not recommend it to a beginner. Yes it's an amazing buggy. Yes it's quite difficult to flip. Yes it will last quite some time, as well as hold it's value IF someone decided to sell it for any reason. I just wouldn't tell a new pilot to run right out and buy one as a first buggy. Why? Indigo made a VERY valid point above. You need space. Lots of space. These buggies love to run, and I can't see spending the cash if you don't have room to open it up. Now, seeing a how these buggies live for speed, we should consider the engine. Vapor, reactor II, Cooper, prodigy, combat, you get the idea. Fast buggy would warrant a fast kite I would think. I can not see putting that caliber kite in the hands of someone new to kiting. Sure, you could run a slower, beginner friendly kite in an Apexx but not running a fast kite with a race buggy would be like buying a Ferrari Enzo only to run a Toyota Corolla 1.8L 4 cyl in it. Lots of flash? Sure! But why drop the $$$ on a performance machine if you can't power it properly? Maybe it's just the recent knock to the head talking an I'm waaayyyyy off base here, just my thoughts :lol:

indigo_wolf - 27-8-2011 at 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jellis
Sam you are being way to logical.:dunno:

That's quite possibly the funniest notion that has ever been posted to PKF.

A long time friend tagged me with a nickname that is the very antithesis of logic.

I was just addressing BR's notion that he couldn't see why someone wouldn't just jump to a Apexx or Sysmic.

It's all just for giggles, so buy what makes you happy (as long as it doesn't put the wee furry ones on half rations). Just hoping that people take into account that depending on local conditions, the top of the shelf isn't going to be the best fit.

ATB,
Sam

Bladerunner - 28-8-2011 at 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by indigo_wolf

Quote:

Originally posted by jellis
Sam you are being way to logical.:dunno:

Just hoping that people take into account that depending on local conditions, the top of the shelf isn't going to be the best fit.

ATB,
Sam

This is what I was trying to say.

I do NOT buy in to this a race buggy MUST have a FB race kite powering it ?

I don't like race kites and have no intension to fly them. I DO want to join the 80KPH club and am confident I will do it with arcs ( or Flysurfer) . I won't be the 1st !

I think that a good buggy will take you into those type speeds far more safely than a FB race kite and Frankin'buggy or a PL thin! My used buggy cost much less than a new vapor and I'm SURE it will serve me better at reaching my goal safely.

Then again, I never was one to go about thing the conventional way ! :rolleyes:

GREAT TOPIC by the way ! :thumbup:

sunset-Jim - 28-8-2011 at 09:53 AM

Quote:

I don't like race kites and have no intension to fly them. I DO want to join the 80KPH club and am confident I will do it with arcs ( or Flysurfer) . I won't be the 1st !

Ask AJ how fast an arc can go?

snowspider - 28-8-2011 at 12:14 PM

If you have the money you cant go wrong with a small stout one for banging around and easy transport add to it a big one for the big events and rough fields. Given your background you will be drawn into all that land kiting has to offer.

Powerws - 28-8-2011 at 01:10 PM

I just went to Popeye the welder................ man those buggies are works of art. Beautiful. I'm sure they are expensive. Anyone have one? Snow spider, great advice, I will be pulling the trigger real soon. I guess you can always buy a better buggy down the road. I really do like to way the LIBER side rails that come up around you. Seems you sit down in it deeper, where the Peter Lynn seems you sit higher. I have a small trailer so transportation won't be an issue. Just looking for the perfect buggy. This has turned out to be an awesome thread with great information. Thank you for the responses and education.

cheezycheese - 28-8-2011 at 01:34 PM

Have a look at VTT.com. He also makes some nice buggies.

revpaul - 28-8-2011 at 01:41 PM

i have/had 2 large (extended/elongated side rails and wide rear axles to match) buggies.
i ride in a small area and in gusty winds with far too much lawn junk/obstacles around(which is why i now prefer landsailer). my area is surely not a "race" environment and i did not buy the buggies to race. i bought them because they are comfy and more stable (better suited to handle the sudden "added wind power" from gusts i deal with)... i'm sure the large buggies helped save me from an OBE or two that would have occurred in a standard/short buggy.
Paul

Powerws - 28-8-2011 at 01:53 PM

Rev, I think I'm leaning towards a larger buggy. I want comfort! I will be riding on beaches mostly hard pack with some soft sand.

cheezycheese - 28-8-2011 at 02:04 PM

Since you have a trailer a large buggy would probably suit you a little better. I have a large buggy and no trailer and it has often prevented me from getting out. Too much hassle to break down. So I got a PL XR+ for convenience but I must say you are right on the money. With the PL buggies you kinda sit "ON" them more so than "IN" them. Van made me a set of side rails for the XR that have a higher profile and offer more of a bucket seat.

Powerws - 28-8-2011 at 02:19 PM

I really like this Black Widow. Seems that this buggy might be on the money. Well see

BeamerBob - 28-8-2011 at 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Powerws
I just went to Popeye the welder................ man those buggies are works of art. Beautiful. I'm sure they are expensive. Anyone have one?

I bought the Hero buggy from him when he was here for NABX this spring. Yes it is a work of art. It is too small for me but my sons really appreciate what a nice ride it is. My avatar pic is Popeye and I with my son Wexler sitting in the Hero.

Powerws - 28-8-2011 at 02:47 PM

Beamer, are his buggies expensive? Even though it's not what I need, I love the looks of his Dominator 4 buggy. Beautiful.

Powerws - 28-8-2011 at 04:46 PM

Are most all the buggies that are longer and beefer race buggies? I want a buggy that has great back support and one thats great for cruising.

Bladerunner - 28-8-2011 at 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeamerBob

Quote:

Originally posted by Powerws
I just went to Popeye the welder................ man those buggies are works of art. Beautiful. I'm sure they are expensive. Anyone have one?

You remember the deal we have for me to get the 1st crack at buying the " Hero " once Wex' grows out of it ??
Me neither but we just made it !!!!!

BeamerBob - 28-8-2011 at 05:20 PM

Popeye's buggies are similar in price to middle priced buggies such as the MG aero. The problem is shipping, especially a dominator. He had a deal on one to ship to a fireman in NY city and it fell through based on shipping cost. Other style PTW buggies would be more shippable since the parts break down smaller. Consider that you are getting a custom buggy made to your specs with all Popeyes experience and craftsmanship rolled into it.

Blade, to my knowledge you are the first one to ask for dibs on the Hero if it becomes available someday. I have 2 boys and who knows how long it will be regularly used. That thing is pretty just hanging in the garage, but it needs to always be somewhere that it gets properly exercised.:bigok:

sunset-Jim - 28-8-2011 at 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Powerws
I want a buggy that has great back support and one thats great for cruising.

I had to smile when I read that only because those were my words exactly ;-)

I have ridin quite a few different buggies since then, (going back about a dozen yrs or so) and I can honestly say that I would not trade my ride for anything else out there. Sure there may be some bias to that based on that is what I am use to and once a Ford, Chevy, Toyota...etc...etc guy, it takes a lot for anybody to convert over to something else. I personally, have not found that yet for myself.

I do feel compelled to maybe insert my opinion (like earlier stated, every one has one) in regards to starting off with a lighter vs a heavier buggy. There is definitely some concerns about the safety of starting off with a heavier buggy. The biggest is that it does take a moment longer to get that mass rolling. The softer the surface, even more so. What I have seen happen is for somebody that hasn't quite got it down yet to have too big of a buggy, grab too much power and in fairly soft sand... get lofted. The power is going to move something and it doesn't care if it's the pilot and the buggy or just the pilot.

Of course there are quite a few variables in this situation that one can overcome by knowing this and taking some precautions. This is also where proper safety gear is paramount. A helmet of course being the minimum.

If one does decide to start off with a lighter buggy (a vmax being my personal choice) it won't be a wasted investment by any means. It can either be sold off or what I and many others have done, is to use the lighter buggy as a trainer and/or also a tandem buggy. With very few exceptions people that love this sport also like to share it with others. You are seeing this first hand :thumbup:

With the safety concerns as mentioned earlier to train with and with how pretty exciting it is to take somebody (typically kids, but by all means not limited by) on a tandem ride and hear them laugh uncontrollably, there is always a place in my arsenal for such a buggy.

Good luck and welcome to the sport.

Powerws - 28-8-2011 at 06:18 PM

Sunset Jim............Most enlightening advice I originally wanted the V MaxII based off the conversations I had with John at KBSS. I found him at the beginning and he was most helpful. I also looked at the Black Widow II demo that is on here for sale. I will buy one of these. I do want a MIDI wheel setup, because they could get through some soft stuff, but will add some cushion on the hard pack. You going to WildWood Buggy Bash? I really want to meet all of you guys. All of the sports from Motocross, to BMX, and to all of the extreme sports I have done, Kitting is no exception,...............Fine people trying to help to newbies! I love it! Thanks!

sunset-Jim - 28-8-2011 at 08:04 PM

I wish I could go.

My goal is to be able to attend every annual event at least once. When you say a MIDI wheel setup, does that also include bigfoots? On beaches, wheel barrows are ok, MIDI's are better, but bigfoots are even better yet. Now I'm running grooved beach racers and having the time of my life.

Have fun at WWBB. But beware of a little Canasian that's going. I hear that he has a thing for pink skirts.....:evil:

BeamerBob - 28-8-2011 at 08:11 PM

Sunset Jim is right especially about getting the mass moving. In thick grass at the sodfarm, with the Ivanpah I had at the time, there were a couple times I did what I termed a "pegstand". Just like Jim said, I bit off a bunch of power coming out of a turn and for an instant was heading straight towards the kite while it was powering up strong. For an instant, the kite would lift me out of the seat but not enough that I couldn't keep my feet on the pegs, and then when the buggy caught up, both times I ended up settling back into the seat. If I was lighter, I would've gotten launched out the front of the buggy. A lighter buggy wouldn't have had the lag to accelerate.

DAKITEZ - 28-8-2011 at 08:15 PM

lets see if your rear still comes out of the seat and you do a peg stand now that you have the apexx.

I had a few instances already where I would have been yanked out of the buggy if I were in anything other than the apexx. But instead it just lifted me in the buggy off the ground a little and I kept my butt in the seat

sunset-Jim - 28-8-2011 at 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DAKITEZ
lets see if your rear still comes out of the seat and you do a peg stand now that you have the apexx.

I had a few instances already where I would have been yanked out of the buggy if I were in anything other than the apexx. But instead it just lifted me in the buggy off the ground a little and I kept my butt in the seat

If only everybody had a large bum... :moon:

BeamerBob - 28-8-2011 at 08:32 PM

Quote:

For sure, if it got me out, I wouldn't plop back in again! You don't just sit in the Apexx, you engage it. Lock and load.

Powerws - 28-8-2011 at 08:59 PM

Which Apexx's are you on?

awindofchange - 28-8-2011 at 09:10 PM

For the record, the Ivanpah buggy is inspired by Popeye's creations and built with the same high standards and craftsmanship. The cougar and superbug are the buggies the Ivanpah is modeled after. I worked with Popeye for about a year and a half on the design of the Ivanpah before it was finished and released.

For comfort, there are very few buggies on the market that would be as comfortable as the Ivanpah. Stability at high speeds, back support and comfort are what the Ivanpah was exclusively designed for.

The stainless steel version is hand polished to a ultra high gloss shine and you have your pick of several colors for the seats/rail covers to choose from. Also, the seats, rail covers and bags are all custom made for the Ivanpah by Buggybags - one of the best built buggy seats in the industry.

Also, the Ivanpah is hand built right here in the U.S.A. and is the only buggy on the planet to come with a 5 year warranty. IMO, this makes the Ivanpah the best production buggy on the planet. Others may argue this fact but they will have a hard time trying to prove it.

The other buggies in the same class of the Ivanpah like the Libre, MG, Sysmic and Apexx are also very good buggies. Owning any one of these buggies is owning one of the best. I am of course bias about the Ivanpah as I am the one that builds them.

Even though, the facts are what they are.

Good luck with whatever you decide to purchase. Any one of these buggies will be a great choice.

DAKITEZ - 28-8-2011 at 09:48 PM

The Ivanpah is no doubt the best bang for your buck here in the states. The Libre and Ivanpah are roughly in the same price range so it makes them two buggy to compare together. The MG, Apexx, or a Popeye buggy are much more expensive cost (double - triple in some cases) so its hard to classify them together.

Unlike many people I have owned most all these buggies you are looking to compare. PL xr+ and xr+ big foot , Libre full race, mg, apexx, flexifoil (new and old). I never owned a Ivanpah but I have driven one. So I have first hand knowledge on them all. For the type of riding you describe I would say the ivanpah is a good fit for you now. There will be a good selection of buggies at wild wood including some apexx's and I think there is an Ivanpah or two around there as well?? So it might be beneficial for you to wait and give some different buggies a try before you buy.

Also just wanted to say I laughed when you said you wanted the best no matter the cost .... then found out what that really meant and had a change of heart LOL .... Don't worry that happens alot! People sit in my apexx and start to drool on themselves. They say I have to have one!!!! Then I tell them what one costs and they jump out of the seat like they just got bit LOL

mougl - 29-8-2011 at 04:45 AM

+1 Ivanpah

If you are looking for great back support, higher side rails so you sit in as opposed to on the buggy, something tough and made to cruise...yep, Ivanpah.

Angus accurately describes it "A Lazy boy on rails" Not to mention it's priced right!

John Holgate - 29-8-2011 at 05:25 AM

In Aus, our main choices are Libre & Sysmic in the cruising buggies. I once sat in an Apexx and did the obligatory drooling thing. JD's got a Dominator from Popeye and it sure is a work of art. I ended up with the Vmax and it has been great. I made a back support for it and I can cruise for several hours at a time in comfort. Sysmic is well regarded here too - a few of the locals have the S2 and they are comfy and stable. The Sysmic's are very good value here - a little cheaper than the Vmax with a bit more bang for your buck. They were not available when I bought the Libre and it would be a tough choice if I had to make it again. My next bug could be a Sysmic S1 or a Libre Dragster (if I ever have the spare coin!!)

The Vmax is hard to fault. Nothing's come loose or fallen off in 2,500km. And it's not easy to get pulled out of it accidentally either - excellent side support. Heel straps make a big difference for me too - I can completely relax my legs without fear of them coming off in bumpy conditions (legs coming off the foot pegs, that is.)

Powerws - 29-8-2011 at 05:31 AM

Dakitez, so funny. One more to choose from! When I first started looking at the buggies, I saw the Sysmic S1 and fell in love! What a work of art and from what I understand these highly engineered buggies are well balanced! Wildwood isn't coming fast enough. I assuming that there will be buggies for sale there. I will be taking your advice and waiting until I go to buy one. My only concern is that this will be the first time sitting in a buggy. My 3m Ozone Method will be here today, and will be flying this weekend in North Myrtle Beach. I will be doing my figure 8's on foot to get exhausted and get familiar with the action. Last thing I want is to sit my butt in a buggy at wildwood (for the first time) and not know what I'm doing. Could be embarrassing.

Powerws - 29-8-2011 at 05:38 AM

John, Sunset Jim, made a great point about the LIBER V maxII. I could always sell it, or use it for a tandem unit. I want the Sysmic S1 but think it may be too big to start off in. I will look at the Black Widow, The VmaxII, and the Ivanpah. I really do think these would be the best choice for me to start off in. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the bigger tires would be the way to go, even just starting off. For comfort as well as allowing more space to learn on the beach, since our beaches aren't the biggest. I will be making a trip to Jekyll Island this fall I hope.

BeamerBob - 29-8-2011 at 07:21 AM

I've had barrows, wides and bigfoot lites. In any terrain other than a dry lakebed, the bigfoot lites give a nice cushion over rough stuff, float you over any soft sand, and you can either let air out for more traction or pump them up hard for low rolling resistance. If you end up with a buggy with high side rails, grooves in the tires will allow you to hold more power down. Btw, the Ivanpah is ready to roll as is with any of these tire sizes without changing any forks or downtubes. As far as looks go, most buggies look more substantial and balanced with the bigfoot lites mounted.

jellis - 29-8-2011 at 09:15 AM

Oh come on powerws I have a sysmic 1 that is my demo waiting for you. JUST KIDDING the Black Widow, Ivanpah or a VMaxll (there is a used one for sale on this forum) sounds like a great choices
.

BeamerBob - 29-8-2011 at 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jellis
Oh come on powerws I have a sysmic 1 that is my demo waiting for you. JUST KIDDING the Black Widow or a VMaxll (there is a used one for sale on this forum) sounds like a great choice.

Wow, I had not looked into the Sysmics in some time. They are in Apexx price category but also a nice looking buggy.

Jellis, what are these "campers and treck" devices as shown on the Libre dragster page?

"Optionally with back axle with campers and treck devices or with standard axle"

jellis - 29-8-2011 at 09:53 AM

The Expeditionbuggy was setup for the Gobi dessert in Mongolia and large quantities of water and gear are needed.
http://www.libre.de/Eng/ExpeditionBuggy.html
Look for a new race buggy from Libre the MAJESTIC.

jellis - 29-8-2011 at 09:55 AM

I will post pictures of the MAJESTIC as soon as i can figure out how to cut and paste from a PDF email.

Drewculous - 29-8-2011 at 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jellis
I will post pictures of the MAJESTIC as soon as i can figure out how to cut and paste from a PDF email.

When u can see the pic... Hit print screen, go into mspaint, then paste... Bam!

jellis - 29-8-2011 at 10:05 AM

This buggy was setup for the Gobi dessert expedition so they can carry the water and gear needed.
http://www.libre.de/Eng/ExpeditionBuggy.html
Also coming soon a new race buggy from Libre the MAJESTIC.

bobalooie57 - 29-8-2011 at 10:06 AM

I caught a glimpse of that gear rack before the link went away, wow! I just wish I had an expedition to somewhere that I need it for!! :spin:

Would like to see pics of the Majestic, though. hey, I can dream, can't I?

edit: oh, that link is still there, sorry. so cool! :thumbup:

ragden - 29-8-2011 at 11:22 AM

When I buggy, which is rare these days, I ride in my PL CompXR which is a great little buggy for getting around. I can dismantle it and stuff it in my trunk along with a lot of gear. Works great. However, if money and space were not an issue, I would probably lean towards the Libre SuperTruck. I've ridden in a few of those, and I really like them. I really havent take an Ivanpah for a long ride, but I've sat it in before. Comfortable buggy, but a bit low to the ground for my tastes.

Buggies seem to be a very personal thing. Much like harnesses and other things. You need to find what works for you. There will be a lot of buggies at the Bash in Wildwood. Test them out. Don't be shy. You see something that looks interseting, walk over and say hi. Just don't take off for an hour before you've checked with someone first..

van - 29-8-2011 at 12:36 PM

If you are coming to WWBB, my demo Black Widow buggy will be there. It's used but only about 3 or 4 times?? I don't really consider my buggy production buggies but they are built with care and thought to the final use of the product. It is not stainless, but will give you years of usage. It is built here in Texas in my garage in a gated community :spin:

. Pretty soon they will kick me out for welding in my driveway ... lol .. I don't really make any money of these buggies at the sub $1K price that I sell them for including splash guard, custom seats, and buggy bags. Oh also wheels and tires .. heehee .. no kites, but I might throw in a free t-shirt :P . Rich has the demo buggy so if you want to try it out, it will be at WWBB. Thanks guys for the support I get for my buggy building.

van - 29-8-2011 at 01:32 PM

btw .. just for size comparison ...

Black Widow on left , Apexx on right .. basically about the same size.

djinnzfree - 30-8-2011 at 03:11 PM

I ride homemade one with a backrest... it's mounted with bigfoot tires...

bison - 30-8-2011 at 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by awindofchange
...the Ivanpah the best production buggy on the planet. Others may argue this fact but they will have a hard time trying to prove it.

I wonder how Big Kid would react to this statement?

awindofchange - 31-8-2011 at 01:15 AM

Bison,

There was a huge fail on Big Kid's buggy, the person that I had helping me build the Ivanpah buggies at that time screwed up cutting one of the side rails and did a half-assed attempt at patching it back together without my knowledge. Had I known he did this, i would have never let it out of the shop and would have insisted on replacing the rails with new ones. I now build all of the Ivanpah buggies myself to insure they are built properly and things like this will never happen again.

As soon as I found out about the issue with Jeff's buggy, I built a completely new set of side rails and shipped them to him 100% free of charge to replace the bad ones.

To this date, that is the only failure on any Ivanpah buggy... including the first thee prototypes that are still in operation today.

I stand by my statements....and I am very proud (or should I say passionate) about the Ivanpah.

Powerws - 31-8-2011 at 02:25 AM

Its always the help that hurts the business. I hate to hear that!

Bladerunner - 31-8-2011 at 06:37 AM

I am now the proud owner of the buggy Kent and Bison refer to.

I was aware of the history and KNOWING that Kent will stand by his product only made me more comfortable in buying !

The "Taxi" shall get it's 1st real tests this weekend. :wee:

van - 31-8-2011 at 07:04 AM

Lets not let one buggy incident put a bad image on the rest of Kent's work. You learn and you improve. My first buggy I built broke in half on me. That's what you get for using super thin tubing from around the house!!! I've learn from that and now use minimum 1/8" tubing for everything. I don't have an official warranty on my buggies since they are not production ready. I still make them custom for anyone that wants one but if they break 10 years down the road due to a bad weld, I don't have a problem with replacing the parts. I don't believe that any company out there can make an indestructible buggy. The Apexx buggy is on the high end but its got its share of broken axles.

ripsessionkites - 31-8-2011 at 08:43 AM

there is a buggy for everyone and everyone's budget. you just have to find it.

if you are in it for the long run, spend the money now to get "race style" buggy than going cheap and selling it later because you have seen something better.

best buggies is personal opinion, why because it suits you. its the enjoyable that it brings you and only you.

i drive an ApeXX, this is my 3rd one, I'm probably the only person that sells his. yes, its a little more than most other buggies but its custom. you get what you paid for.

the normal is now coming Heel straps and Curved Side rails. One thing many of you don't know is it all started from XXtreme. Ruudje designed the idea of the Curved Side Rails to keep riders in place. The Heel Straps were originally intend for Ozzy (one legged dutchman who i call a BRO). with heel straps you can turn the buggy with one leg in any direction.
other things included items like the Weight bar, 3D Fender. today this day we still have the only Asymmetric Adjustable in the back, many have tried to copy this.

with curved side rails, you want to go custom and not just standard sizing. unless you don't mind added foam later because it didn't fit right the first time.
you're going to say that CBE and I added extra foam and its custom, when we first made them they fit, and if you took all 3 of my ApeXX its getting smaller and smaller. I have to change my diet to McDonald's I guess. my 3rd ApeXX fits like a glove as with the others did too.

not to put XXtreme spotlight, but when you get a buggy from him, you're speaking to him, ozzy or myself. he imagines to build you a buggy just off of pictures and measurements to fit. Im slowly learning this, since I had to put both ToxicBob and Daskirts into Arie's and Ozzy's buggies after NABX.

whatever you get, its all about you.

Peter Lynn - ST, XR+, Folding, BF+
Flexifoil - SS, Scout
VTT - Black Widow
Windspeed - Ivanpah
XXtreme - BaSiXX, ApeXX custom
Libre - Sprint, Dragster, Full Race, V-MaxII, Supertruck II, Truck II, Protask, Magik, Majestic
PTW - Custom
BBS - Concept C2, Booster XT, Cruiser
MG - Aero
GT - Ultralite, Full Option
Zebra - Zebra
Trikbitz - custom
RS - no info
Parastorm - Typhoon
Viper - Evo
Sysmic - S1, S2

... and it continues

jellis - 31-8-2011 at 09:52 AM

Yes I also saw what happened to BigKid and talked to Kent about it and he was furious about the mistake that was made. I don't think Kent will let his friend help ever again LOL. To date I have not seen nor heard of any problems with the Ivanpah buggies and I hear good reports from customers that own one.
Kent and I talked the other day about carrying the Ivanpah in my shop and I am proud to say we now offer another great buggy here at KBSS.

Powerws - 31-8-2011 at 10:40 AM

I have spoken with Jellis and he has really helped me in deciphering the differences between all of the buggies. I must say that I agree with ripsession in the fact you get what you pay for. While competing in motocross, I always go new as well as loading it up with aftermarket parts. Yes you can get a bike that cost $3000, but in the long run It cost you more, where the new bikes after the parts installed run $11000. Ripsession hit the mark when ha said, spend the money now if you are in it for the long run, which I am. Silly to mess around with building one up from older parts and sinking 1/2 to 3/4 of what a new one would cost. I race and have for many years and what a lot of people dont think about is that metal fatigues, bearings wear out and tolerances aren't the same. I will always spend more and get the best I can.

Now on the other hand I spoke with Jellis and he has a point too. If I were going to learn to sail, Would I go buy a 20 foot $40000.00 boat or learn on a dingy? The dingy will teach you the feel of the boat and how it acts where a larger boat, while more stable, would mask some of the feelings. It's all about feel and how you perfect the technique. I would have to say I'm all about quality, close tolerances, design build, lots of adjustments, and of course performance. I'm in it for the long haul and really want something thats going to last. I will be going the route of spending more and getting a better, bigger, more race like buggy, especially after seeing what a big buggy can do. Like the MG Aero video that Ihatework sent me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehSirVU7XGk&feature=youtu...

Awesome, and I will be here! Now I just need to find a buggy. I would love to find an awesome buggy that is like new with very very new with few hours on it for a good price, a demo that hasn't been pushed to the limits for failure testing. I'm getting the itch so bad, I may pull the trigger prior to WWBB. I have the money right now and want to get busy! Anyone know of an Apexx, MG Aero, Sysmic S1, Ivanpah, or a Libre super truck II that I can buy right? Must be in great condition! I'm so happy to have narrowed it down!

BeamerBob - 31-8-2011 at 10:43 AM

I too can vouch for the strength and robust build quality in the Ivanpah. I'm 230 lbs and could jump up and down on the joint between the siderails and downtube. It seemed like any bouncing that happened came from the tires. I exceeded my personal best speed on my Ivanpah at NABX this year, bumping it up to 50.4 mph. The straight tracking and stability from the rigid and heavy construction meant I was not near the buggie's limit just hit the limit of what the kite/lines could give me with that wind. I know that Kent will stand behind his product because the Ivanpah is a part of him.

Powerws - 31-8-2011 at 10:51 AM

No one has really spoken of the Sysmic S1? Anyone driven one, is it priced too high, or is it not up to par with the others? Just curious because it look bulletproof!

jellis - 31-8-2011 at 11:08 AM

Buggy Kite Shop in France makes those and KBSS carries the S1. It is a stainless steel buggy that is on a very large platform. A very deep seat is comfortable and keeps you secure. The footpegs are unique and are very long and wide enough for your complete foot to fit comfortably for the long bumpy runs.The frame rails are rounded and wider in the leg area to provide you with the ability to spread your legs outwards and hold yourself in the buggy. The SI comes with 8" rims in the back and a 4" rim on the front with grooved beach racer tires.
At this time I have one demo S1 in stock.

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