Power Kite Forum

Lines/bars for land vs water

lamrith - 10-9-2011 at 07:49 PM

Well, as I and everyone knew from the start I am hooked on power kiting..

I know the kites themselves are different for kite surfing versus buggying on land. I am curious however if or how the bars and lines may differ? Do the lines float?

If there is a thread or site that goes into the water oriented gear by all means let me know.

I am trying to understand the differences so I can have a set of gear that I can take on vacations with me to warmer climates each year and body drag or at least fly on the water with no access to beach to launch

macboy - 10-9-2011 at 08:18 PM

Enter the Peter Lynn Arc lineup. Good buggy engines, twinskin, closed cell foil for land, snow and water.

The biggest difference (aside from the control systems - handles vs. bars) is responsiveness. Depower kites don't tend to be as responsive as fixed bridle kites. They are truly two different breeds altogether. I flew fixed bridles for my first season on snow and got used to that reaction time in the kite as well as the power delivery. Took a while to adjust to the depower but now I can't ski worth a damn with a fixed bridle in my hands.

lamrith - 10-9-2011 at 09:07 PM

Thanks Mac!! Just trying to think ahead (WAY AHEAD) for next spring and plan purchases to limit duplicating gear as much as possible.

Are all the water relaunchable kites LEI's aside from the HQ Hydra's? and LEI's are all depower if I have read correctly? If that is the case maybe I need to look at a depower as my next toy once I get a handle on this 3.3fb?

:wee: :-p

macboy - 11-9-2011 at 12:16 AM

There are a few closed cell foils on the market (aka - water relaunchable). HQ has the Hydra, Neo and Matrix. Most Flysurfers (except the Outlaw) as well as all Peter Lynn Arcs are water relaunchable. And yes, as with the LEI (inflatables), all are depowers. The biggest difference is the amount of depower. LEIs can depower to nothing. Zero pull. Foils depower well but nothing like the LEIs I've flown. In good winds an Arc should never really hit the water but if they do in most cases they'll just pop right back off the water. Have never flown Flysurfers on water but can imagine the relaunch to be not much different than relaunching on land but because they are a bridled foil as opposed to the Arcs you'll more intuitively reverse launch when needed with your fixed bridle experience.

For me, I made the switch to the LEIs as I dial in the water skills because I don't trust my abilities to relaunch or rescue with a foil if the need ever arose. Once I get to the point where the board skills are solid and the fear of the kite hitting the surf are near to none I'll most likely head back to the foil scene since for me the self launch and land are way easier (in a manner of speaking) and there's no pumping required. Arcs are simple - no bridles to monkey with but they do have a setup requirement like an LEI (attaching lines etc). I love the simplicity in the Arcs but there are some days when I'd just rather flop a kite out of the bag, give it a shake and launch.

You'll own many by the time you're in the doghouse :lol:

Midgaar - 11-9-2011 at 02:00 AM

To add on that, yes, the bars are different for open cell de-powers (land) and LEIs/ARCs/FSers. The safety releases are the main difference and are generally not interchangeable. To make things even more complicated the leader lines and pigtails are generally different between the kites of the same category. While I have a bar for a Venom2 ARC it may need tweaking to fly a Charger ARC.

lamrith - 11-9-2011 at 06:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by macboy
There are a few closed cell foils on the market (aka - water relaunchable). HQ has the Hydra, Neo and Matrix. Most Flysurfers (except the Outlaw) as well as all Peter Lynn Arcs are water relaunchable. And yes, as with the LEI (inflatables), all are depowers. The biggest difference is the amount of depower. LEIs can depower to nothing. Zero pull. Foils depower well but nothing like the LEIs I've flown. In good winds an Arc should never really hit the water but if they do in most cases they'll just pop right back off the water. Have never flown Flysurfers on water but can imagine the relaunch to be not much different than relaunching on land but because they are a bridled foil as opposed to the Arcs you'll more intuitively reverse launch when needed with your fixed bridle experience.

For me, I made the switch to the LEIs as I dial in the water skills because I don't trust my abilities to relaunch or rescue with a foil if the need ever arose. Once I get to the point where the board skills are solid and the fear of the kite hitting the surf are near to none I'll most likely head back to the foil scene since for me the self launch and land are way easier (in a manner of speaking) and there's no pumping required. Arcs are simple - no bridles to monkey with but they do have a setup requirement like an LEI (attaching lines etc). I love the simplicity in the Arcs but there are some days when I'd just rather flop a kite out of the bag, give it a shake and launch.

You'll own many by the time you're in the doghouse :lol:

Great info thanks! I know the hydra has drawn my eye for quite a while, but I will research the others as well. I know the hydra is more of a FB but had heard people have re-rigged them to be like a Depower. My concern is that in light winds (5-10mph), the hydra350 will not be strong enough to body drag with?

I can understand the safety and leader lines being different. Is that something that could be taken on/off or swapped on a bar. The trip I take each year I would not fly my FB at all, so re-rigging prior to the trip the set-up would be all water oriented until I came back home. I am just hoping to avoid needing to purcahse an entire water set-up that I will only use 1-2weeks a year. Having just a water kite and needing to do some re-rigging on land gear I have for other kites would be awesome. Harness I would bet would be different too, more chest mounted versus waist mounted for land?

If there is a good site with gear run down, tutorial by all means let me know. :-)

And what makes you think I am not already in the dog house? I'm taking up kiting so at least I have something to wrap up in and keep warm at night, kites make decent blankets!!!:singing:

Midgaar - 11-9-2011 at 10:42 AM

Harnesses are more or less the same. You can use a seat harness on water or land, same with a waist harness, this is just a matter of preference. As for the bar issue, save yourself the headache and frustration of trying to modify a land kite bar to be used with a water based kite and just pick up a bar along with your kite. It's going to cost you a couple hundred if you buy new, but most used kites come with a bar. You can pick up a used bar in good condition for about $150. Also realize the safety issue. How much are your life or limbs worth? It's $200 just to walk in the door of the ER, there's your bar right there.

You could always get yourself an ARC or closed-cell foil. You would be able to use these on land and water. Then again, nothing is stopping you from using a LEI on land ether.

joedy - 11-9-2011 at 10:58 AM

Quote:
...I know the hydra has drawn my eye for quite a while, but I will research the others as well. I know the hydra is more of a FB but had heard people have re-rigged them to be like a Depower. My concern is that in light winds (5-10mph), the hydra350 will not be strong enough to body drag with?


I'm 180 and with 10mph you can body drag downwind, but it's mostly an affair of circling in the wind window and then reversing the flying direction to untwist the flying lines. Figure 8'ing also works, but when the wind picks up, you'll find yourself being yanked around like a fly fishing lure.

I haven't flown John's power mod version of the Hydra 350, but I'd imagine that you'd need a little more wind to body drag upwind, but downwind should be easier with a John's power mod version. With John's version, you'll be able to park the Hydra and drag in your preferred direction.

If you've got kids, teaching them how to fly with a Hydra in waist deep water will minimize the risks. I've seen my Hydra hit the water hard with very loud pops, but I haven't had a blow-out or damage to the kite.

I have had two end section bridles lines snap. John assures me that this is not normal and is a rarity. Maybe I got lucky and got the Monday morning or Friday afternoon Hydra build from the plant.

You'll need the Hydra pretty inflated before it will fly. In a good wind, it takes a few passes through the wind window before she really wakes up and starts to pull.

Relaunching is easy, but be mindful of letting the Hydra toss in the surf; the surf will tend to bowtie the kite and fill it up with water. Landing/Crashing away from the waves will allow you to let the Hydra sit on the water like a man o'war jellyfish.

-joedy